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Posted: 11/15/2009 1:08:41 PM EST
The more I talk to people, the more I see that even though they see things are just way too screwed up, many just cannot cope.

I know of those who have watched and even know that they need to prep, but something happens that they jsut stop, and prefer to live life and do nothing for their "future when it all goes south."

This goes of course with the general population that are on drugs just to cope with every day life, but also goes beyond that, in the fact that it is directly corillates with the fact that they know that every way we turn, things are just a mess.

In fact, I just spoke to a guy who emphatically stated, "I refuse to spend my time reading and watching when I cannot do squat to change the future or outcome of what is coming. I will simply do what it takes to enjoy life, and what adds to my life right now."

I could go on, but will not.

What is my point? I don't know. I just thought I would throw this out there if anyone would like to discuss this "pandemic" we have in this nation today.

StagPower
Link Posted: 11/15/2009 1:14:10 PM EST
... Well, look at it this way - the heard will cull fairly easily
Link Posted: 11/15/2009 1:19:59 PM EST
I think its the overall frustration with the gov't. Take Pelosi, a vast majority of people I talk to can't stand her but unless you live in California, there is nothing you can do to remove her from office. Unless you like the way things are going, most people feel disenfranchised. At least for me, the last few elections I've voted for the lesser of two evils or voted against the other guy. People see the gov't hand out billions to corporations and leave working families to foot the bill. I had read somewhere that everyone would need to pay an additional 40% in taxes to pay for the bill that has been run up this year.

How can someone not feel hopeless about that?
Link Posted: 11/15/2009 1:24:15 PM EST
I talk like that too! When speaking, generally, and to anyone....not for sure on my team ****** Meanwhile, my floors are sagging!
Link Posted: 11/15/2009 1:26:39 PM EST
Now where have you guys been? Everything is wonderful, the gov has created all these thousands of jobs, the unemployment rate is dropping, the economy has turned around.
I still haven't figured out what world they are living in but it sure as hell isn't this one.
OK done with my little rant.

It appears to me, from all the people I talk to on a daily basis, that there are still lots of folks who believe the gov BS and don't feel there is any need to worry with prepping for anything. I guess they haven't lost their house or job yet...time will tell...
Link Posted: 11/15/2009 1:39:11 PM EST
I am preparing for my family, and extended family, for a day when I have to leave my home. When I have to face those who threaten their safety and Freedom. Some of us cannot ignore our fate. That is why some countries in Europe are so damn docile. They have given up any hope of being something better. All hope of greatness is nearly completely gone in most of the populace.

I hope it never comes to that. I hope my efforts are just a silly waste.
Link Posted: 11/15/2009 1:49:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By dispatch55126:
I think its the overall frustration with the gov't. Take Pelosi, a vast majority of people I talk to can't stand her but unless you live in California, there is nothing you can do to remove her from office. Unless you like the way things are going, most people feel disenfranchised. At least for me, the last few elections I've voted for the lesser of two evils or voted against the other guy. People see the gov't hand out billions to corporations and leave working families to foot the bill. I had read somewhere that everyone would need to pay an additional 40% in taxes to pay for the bill that has been run up this year.

How can someone not feel hopeless about that?


Yep. Washington no longer represents the will of the people... witness how hard the democrats are pushing this health care bill that a majority of the population doesn't want. How can you not feel disenfranchised watching a wholesale destruction/nationalization of an entire industry?

We've let them know how pissed off we are... but they're not listening... or if they are, it's not to us.
Link Posted: 11/15/2009 2:55:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... Well, look at it this way - the heard will cull fairly easily


Yep, give it a month in cities for the rice to separate from the rat shit and two in rural areas for the wheat to separate from the chaff. I had this conversation this weekend with a guy in the area where my BOL is. It's rural and he said that there are folks up that way that only make it to town once a month and would be fine in a SHTF. I countered that it would not play out like that because there would be a similar number of people who have nothing but a 4 day supply of tennis shoes and they would 'need' what the others had. We are in an area that has 60% of the population working for the .gov and the rest are on welfare or retired. Shit is still going to go down even if these rural folk don't have as far to fall...

Just In Time delivery of grocery stock is going to fuck a lot of people if the balloon ever does go up.
Link Posted: 11/15/2009 3:12:12 PM EST
I don't know that I buy the disenfranchisement issue as causing folks to not prep.

To me, this should accelerate efforts, if one is inclined to prepare in the first place.

If folks feel that things being bad and having no representation means "why bother," then things NOT being bad enables denial even more.

And regarding the 'folks' in the Capitol, the greater sin is not that they don't listen, it's that they have taken their authority way beyond the Constitution with impunity.
Link Posted: 11/15/2009 3:47:13 PM EST
The Baby Boomers and their kids still believe in fairy tales. "If I ignore it, it will go away.."

My generation disgusts me sometimes.

Ops
Link Posted: 11/15/2009 4:29:18 PM EST
Well reading your responses, it dawned on me that most that think and feel this way all have one thing in common.

Most of the them think that they must go full tilt to one extreme or the other.

They must either live life to the fullest possible or, spend every minute of every day, reading the news, and prepping for teotwawki.

They are very afraid of loosing balance in life, which will hurdle them into fear and paralysis of analysis and prep.

Many of them would think that I have no life, because I do what I can to minimize my waste in time, money, and resources while enjoying the simple things in life, and life in general, rather thanexpecting that only extravigance will bring joy and happiness.

Furthermore, they do not know the diffference between joy and happiness. Happiness is dependant on the external, while joy is internal regardless of the external. I think that these people anyway, many of them, simply do not understand this and balance. They do not understand prep for what it is rather than prep out of shear fear.

So in an extreme measure of living life they deny the balance and prepping for a future of mayhem.

StagPower
Link Posted: 11/15/2009 4:36:20 PM EST
Half of the population is below average intellegence (obviously).
A large percentage of the upper half are mentally ill in one form or another...

Of course these people have limited ability to cope.


Link Posted: 11/15/2009 5:04:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... Well, look at it this way - the heard will cull fairly easily


I agree, I would bet 50% of the liberal population will die off within a month

case in point, this is how libs preped in seattle ater the fact

moonbats
Link Posted: 11/15/2009 5:15:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By PugglePod9000:
Half of the population is below average intellegence (obviously).
A large percentage of the upper half are mentally ill in one form or another...

Of course these people have limited ability to cope.




And unfortunately it seems these are the people running things at this time...
Link Posted: 11/15/2009 5:15:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2009 5:18:05 PM EST by glock27bill]
Originally Posted By StagPower:
Happiness is dependant on the external, while joy is internal regardless of the external.


Perhpas this is at least one key.

If you are externally oriented, when the external fals to crap, you have nothing left...at least nothing that you are in touch with.

Perhaps this leads to that sense of denial seen in so may people.

The loss of the external represents the loss of everything.

Interesting that a society that claims to stand on individual empowerment is very far from it.
Link Posted: 11/15/2009 5:44:48 PM EST
Its an odd generation gap that currently exists. You have the "old and mighty" in congress who grew up being hippies and listening to disco. This generation was a carefree generation who grew up during Vietnam and thus were taught to love everyone and all will be well. I grew up in the 80's and was too young to be a yuppy. However, I was old enough to grow through elementary school and not have a color tv or a computer. My brother always had a computer in school and by the time he entered kindergarten, there was a unified Germany.

I have a unique perspective in things as my parents were divorced and I lived with my father while my brother lived with my mother. My father grew up in the city but his grandmother lived on the farm until she died. He remembers having a chamber pot in his farm bedroom and how he's stay in bed until his grandmother woke up and lit the wood stove to heat the lower level of the farmhouse. My mother grew up in the city and was "by her words" a jockette. She always had things well off while my father remembers shooting rats with a BB gun in his fathers apartment. All of this said, growing up does not dictate your future. Both my father and mother (deceased) have/had successful lives and are well off presently.

Now on to my brother and I. We are both successful and have promising careers. Mine is more blue collar while his is white collar. Even though we had a computer in the house, I never "owned" one until I was enlisted in Okinawa. My brother had a computer in his room before he was dome with elementary school. He is also liberal while I'm conservative. We can get together and do the "family thing" yet he and I are not close.

The point I make is that there is a society gap as big, if not bigger, that what existed in the early 40's. From where I sit (I'm in my 30's), I see my paternal grandmother who can field strip a garand blindfolded (she taught the marines heading to Asia during WWII) and my maternal grandfather would was wounded in Belgium. I see my father who is a PhD andwell known in his field yet puts on holey jeans, jean jacket and ragged boots while working on the out buildings on the family farm. My mother was the socialite jockette, loved by everyone and known by everyone.

I hate cellphones and hate them but realize I need them to stay "connected". My brother is in IT and can't live without it. Translate this into general society and a vast majority of people have grown up in a urban/suburban area where you could always get whatever you needed by simply walking or driving a few miles. These people are the ones who seem "blind" to how bad things could get. They simply don't understand not being able to get something. I grew up hunting frogs, making my own fishing poles and using my imagination.

The people who "don't understand" are the ones giving the gov't its current power. Since they are beginning to realize that they cannot get everything they need/want, they're asking for help and the gov't is more than willing to listen...for a price. The cost of that price depends upon the overall economy. If it stabilizes/improves, then the masses will start to demand less control by the gov't. If the economy gets worse, he masses will ask for more help and the gov't will gain more control. History proves this. The "new deal" worked and the masses wanted less gov't control. The German economy continued to decline which allowed the Nazis to gain more power.

Your opinions may vary...
Link Posted: 11/15/2009 5:52:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2009 5:55:33 PM EST by HS_SAIC]
Kinda makes me worried. Honestly, living in a large city like I do (san diego) if SHTF there would be a ton of unprepared lurkers trying to get what they need to survive by any means necessary. I simply would not have the means to defend what I have should some awful situation arose while I was in the city and had no means to BO quickly. A lot of people refuse to accept the fact that life is dynamic and requires adaptation.
Link Posted: 11/15/2009 6:13:20 PM EST
Kinda makes me worried. Honestly, living in a large city like I do (san diego) if SHTF there would be a ton of unprepared lurkers trying to get what they need to survive by any means necessary. I simply would not have the means to defend what I have should some awful situation arose while I was in the city and had no means to BO quickly. A lot of people refuse to accept the fact that life is dynamic and requires adaptation.


This is the perfect example of the weak being ruled by the strong. Those unprepared and unable to self-sustain will gravitate to those promising anything/everything. This is kind of what you see right now. People are losing homes and jobs (weak) and many are blindly gravitating to the gov't (strong) which is saying "all is right and you'll be fine if you follow us".
Link Posted: 11/15/2009 7:11:57 PM EST
Control. You hit another big issue. Both individually and governmental.


Individual Control and Prepping for the future:

I enjoy in many respects prepping for what we coming. I despise what I see happening right now, and do not want the collapse of society and the US as we see it unfolding. Yet I enjoy prepping simply because it means more control for me and less for the goberment. It is like when I started to pay off the credit cards and give them altimatems. You either raise my credit limits and lower my interest, or cancel my account. But sir. No sir, I am in control of my finances, not you, so do what I say for my credit card or say good bye.

These people only know debt and the control it has on them, but cannot make the disconnect to save their lives. Nor can they prep for the day when food will not be found in the stores for months at a time. It is an aspect of control that they cannot grasp. And again, to think of such throws their balance of one extreme to another way off. They see what s coming but cannot make the necessary changes in life to meet it head on, so as to soften or deter it. If they cnanot fix it, go with the flow.

So we are back to sheepe. Some that know and cannot, will not change or do anything, and those sheepe that are just flat blind, like dumb sheepe. Of course then there are those who are just flat evil and think our present course in this country is just great. That is another story.

It is late here, and I am just kind of rambling here before I hit the rack.

StagPower

Originally Posted By dispatch55126:
Its an odd generation gap that currently exists. You have the "old and mighty" in congress who grew up being hippies and listening to disco. This generation was a carefree generation who grew up during Vietnam and thus were taught to love everyone and all will be well. I grew up in the 80's and was too young to be a yuppy. However, I was old enough to grow through elementary school and not have a color tv or a computer. My brother always had a computer in school and by the time he entered kindergarten, there was a unified Germany.

I have a unique perspective in things as my parents were divorced and I lived with my father while my brother lived with my mother. My father grew up in the city but his grandmother lived on the farm until she died. He remembers having a chamber pot in his farm bedroom and how he's stay in bed until his grandmother woke up and lit the wood stove to heat the lower level of the farmhouse. My mother grew up in the city and was "by her words" a jockette. She always had things well off while my father remembers shooting rats with a BB gun in his fathers apartment. All of this said, growing up does not dictate your future. Both my father and mother (deceased) have/had successful lives and are well off presently.

Now on to my brother and I. We are both successful and have promising careers. Mine is more blue collar while his is white collar. Even though we had a computer in the house, I never "owned" one until I was enlisted in Okinawa. My brother had a computer in his room before he was dome with elementary school. He is also liberal while I'm conservative. We can get together and do the "family thing" yet he and I are not close.

The point I make is that there is a society gap as big, if not bigger, that what existed in the early 40's. From where I sit (I'm in my 30's), I see my paternal grandmother who can field strip a garand blindfolded (she taught the marines heading to Asia during WWII) and my maternal grandfather would was wounded in Belgium. I see my father who is a PhD andwell known in his field yet puts on holey jeans, jean jacket and ragged boots while working on the out buildings on the family farm. My mother was the socialite jockette, loved by everyone and known by everyone.

I hate cellphones and hate them but realize I need them to stay "connected". My brother is in IT and can't live without it. Translate this into general society and a vast majority of people have grown up in a urban/suburban area where you could always get whatever you needed by simply walking or driving a few miles. These people are the ones who seem "blind" to how bad things could get. They simply don't understand not being able to get something. I grew up hunting frogs, making my own fishing poles and using my imagination.

The people who "don't understand" are the ones giving the gov't its current power. Since they are beginning to realize that they cannot get everything they need/want, they're asking for help and the gov't is more than willing to listen...for a price. The cost of that price depends upon the overall economy. If it stabilizes/improves, then the masses will start to demand less control by the gov't. If the economy gets worse, he masses will ask for more help and the gov't will gain more control. History proves this. The "new deal" worked and the masses wanted less gov't control. The German economy continued to decline which allowed the Nazis to gain more power.

Your opinions may vary...


Link Posted: 11/15/2009 7:32:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By dispatch55126:
Its an odd generation gap that currently exists. You have the "old and mighty" in congress who grew up being hippies and listening to disco. This generation was a carefree generation who grew up during Vietnam and thus were taught to love everyone and all will be well. I grew up in the 80's and was too young to be a yuppy. However, I was old enough to grow through elementary school and not have a color tv or a computer. My brother always had a computer in school and by the time he entered kindergarten, there was a unified Germany.

I have a unique perspective in things as my parents were divorced and I lived with my father while my brother lived with my mother. My father grew up in the city but his grandmother lived on the farm until she died. He remembers having a chamber pot in his farm bedroom and how he's stay in bed until his grandmother woke up and lit the wood stove to heat the lower level of the farmhouse. My mother grew up in the city and was "by her words" a jockette. She always had things well off while my father remembers shooting rats with a BB gun in his fathers apartment. All of this said, growing up does not dictate your future. Both my father and mother (deceased) have/had successful lives and are well off presently.

Now on to my brother and I. We are both successful and have promising careers. Mine is more blue collar while his is white collar. Even though we had a computer in the house, I never "owned" one until I was enlisted in Okinawa. My brother had a computer in his room before he was dome with elementary school. He is also liberal while I'm conservative. We can get together and do the "family thing" yet he and I are not close.

The point I make is that there is a society gap as big, if not bigger, that what existed in the early 40's. From where I sit (I'm in my 30's), I see my paternal grandmother who can field strip a garand blindfolded (she taught the marines heading to Asia during WWII) and my maternal grandfather would was wounded in Belgium. I see my father who is a PhD andwell known in his field yet puts on holey jeans, jean jacket and ragged boots while working on the out buildings on the family farm. My mother was the socialite jockette, loved by everyone and known by everyone.

I hate cellphones and hate them but realize I need them to stay "connected". My brother is in IT and can't live without it. Translate this into general society and a vast majority of people have grown up in a urban/suburban area where you could always get whatever you needed by simply walking or driving a few miles. These people are the ones who seem "blind" to how bad things could get. They simply don't understand not being able to get something. I grew up hunting frogs, making my own fishing poles and using my imagination.

The people who "don't understand" are the ones giving the gov't its current power. Since they are beginning to realize that they cannot get everything they need/want, they're asking for help and the gov't is more than willing to listen...for a price. The cost of that price depends upon the overall economy. If it stabilizes/improves, then the masses will start to demand less control by the gov't. If the economy gets worse, he masses will ask for more help and the gov't will gain more control. History proves this. The "new deal" worked and the masses wanted less gov't control. The German economy continued to decline which allowed the Nazis to gain more power.

Your opinions may vary...


Well written.

However the .gov price for that help will likely be your freedom.

It is pretty obvious why the current administration is letting the economy fail without doing a single thing I can see to make a practical difference in helping to recover it.

While the current admin is in power, they have a window of opportunity to seize control if the economy is allowed to collapse fast enough.

Their pretty obvious plan has workd beautifully so far and it's time for them to put the final nails in our coffins over the next few years.

They have the votes they have carefully bought via Acorn and other sleezy organizations.

One thing to take comfort in is once they have their hands around our collective necks and consolidate their power, they won't have much use any more for the non-productive Liberals and others who put them in power. They will be the second to go after us.

Link Posted: 11/15/2009 8:03:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2009 8:04:24 PM EST by thehellbringer]
The housing crisis is only just beginning.
Link Posted: 11/15/2009 10:53:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2009 10:55:52 PM EST by ColtRifle]
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By dispatch55126:
I think its the overall frustration with the gov't. Take Pelosi, a vast majority of people I talk to can't stand her but unless you live in California, there is nothing you can do to remove her from office. Unless you like the way things are going, most people feel disenfranchised. At least for me, the last few elections I've voted for the lesser of two evils or voted against the other guy. People see the gov't hand out billions to corporations and leave working families to foot the bill. I had read somewhere that everyone would need to pay an additional 40% in taxes to pay for the bill that has been run up this year.

How can someone not feel hopeless about that?


Yep. Washington no longer represents the will of the people... witness how hard the democrats are pushing this health care bill that a majority of the population doesn't want. How can you not feel disenfranchised watching a wholesale destruction/nationalization of an entire industry?

We've let them know how pissed off we are... but they're not listening... or if they are, it's not to us.




I disagree. The "will of the people" was evident this past presidential election. A catchy slogan was all it took for people to ignore what the man stands for and believes in and many people jumped on board the "change" bandwagon. Very few Americans bothered to find out what "change" really meant. I did. I checked out Prez Hussein's voting record (what little there was) and also checked out who his associates were. Very scary when you research the guy. Most people didn't give a shit about the truth. They just saw the words "change" and jumped right on board. Kinda scary that it takes that simple of a slogan to catch people's attention without knowing what is behind the "change".

Americans in general (not all of course) have increasingly become dependent on the government to help them out of everything that happens. Yes there are still some independent people out there who don't trust government "help" but I'm afraid MOST Americans are just out for whichever candidate will promise the most stuff from the public treasury.

America must fundamentally change. I try everything that I can to influence young people. Especially the young people who are getting an education in the public school system. The system is gradually brainwashing kids into expecting government assistance for everything. So, I try to undermine that every chance I get when talking to kids especially. Some get it...some don't. But, if we don't change the mindset of our young people, we are doomed to more and more socialism and government interferance in our lives.
Link Posted: 11/16/2009 4:41:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2009 4:42:21 AM EST by Veracity]
Hey, I don't do it, but there is something to be said for the "live for today" guys.

There are areas of my life in which I do embrace that philosophy...just not when it comes to food, water, tools, firearms, ammo, fuel, and meds.
Link Posted: 11/16/2009 5:11:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By HS_SAIC:
Kinda makes me worried. Honestly, living in a large city like I do (san diego) if SHTF there would be a ton of unprepared lurkers trying to get what they need to survive by any means necessary. I simply would not have the means to defend what I have should some awful situation arose while I was in the city and had no means to BO quickly. A lot of people refuse to accept the fact that life is dynamic and requires adaptation.


This should probably br the subject for a whole 'nother thread............but where do most of you city dwellers plan on bugging out to?

Link Posted: 11/16/2009 8:22:27 AM EST
To say that the problems we face today are a generational thing really misses the point.

No one generation has a corner on stupidity. Nor for that matter, incompetence, lethargy, irresponsibility, or entitlement mentality.

Life in America has grown too comfortable for most, regardless of their generation. Americans have become focused on immediate gratification and the accumulation of "stuff", while at the same time turning away from the traditional values of country, family, hard work, delayed gratification, morality, and ethics. Too many think that having everything they want right now is somehow an entitlement, whether they can afford it or not. So why wouldn't these same people elect a president who promises them everything and anything without questioning how he plans to make it all happen? They've taken a permanent break from reality and so an unscrupulous and opportunistic left wing idealog has seized that opportunity to impose his agenda on America. Gee, what a surprise. Is it any wonder that he was able to so easily fool enough Americans to get elected?

But here's the ugly little truth that Mr. hope and change can't dismiss. Almost half of America didn't buy into the socialist utopian promise when it was offered. No, almost half of America didn't drink the cool aid, didn't stumble to the voting booth mumbling the "hope and change" mantra like so many zombies. And those so called "independents" that swung the vote for Obama? They're slowly waking up to the fact that they've been had. And where is it that most of the cool-aid drinkers reside? In the cities and urban areas of the country, that's where. Any national map of the popular vote in the last presidential election confirms that. Blue - cities and urban areas; red - the rest of the vast geographic area of the country.

So, if the S really does HTF, what areas of the country are the least prepared to survive? What will all those city dwellers do when their food supply dries up after three days? And did I mention that they also live in the highest crime areas in the country? Kind of ironic isn't it, that those who are the most ardent socialists are the ones who would be the first to go in a SHTF scenario. Poetic justice at it's finest...self elimination of the incurably stupid. I'm really not much of a Darwinist in an origin of the species kind of way. But a kind of social, survival of the fittest Darminism like this I can certainly ascribe to.
Link Posted: 11/16/2009 8:53:36 AM EST
the mind set described by the OP is probably 90% of the population of America
keep in mind while preping, talking about preping, shooting, ammo stockpiles etc that the "Aint gonna happen crowd" will be the first one's knocking
on your door should SHTF and they will bring a bunch of thier friends, family and basiclly most anyone they meet on the street with:

"HEY I got this buddy HE has all we need until the Government gets this straightened out.."

and they will NOT UNDERSTAND, sorry, I only have enough for me and mine,,

things will quickly go from to to so be prepared to shoot your "buddy" in the head long before it gets to and loudly ask "anyone else want my stuff?" cause they wont be hearing well as ringing ears will void your conversational tone..




CHEF
(more the head on spikes in the front yard survivalist)
Link Posted: 11/16/2009 9:06:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2009 9:07:41 AM EST by Tight-group]
The days of our freedom are numbered.

The complete stupidy and denial of people is beyond the mind to comprehend.

While I don't have tv I was recently with relatives and saw a segment on 60 minutes that had the head of our gov

agencys cia,fbi etc . And he was talking of the suseptibilty and CERTAIN fall of our power grid since under control of the

private sector has refused to take any measures to harded from simple hackers. He cited the cascade effect a hack could

produce, then a refinery worker showed how a computer could generate a masive explosion in a plant. They even blew up

a good size diesel generatot by computer hack.

Add the spike tv series on bio attack and pandemic vunaribilty and I see no reaction to people none ,ZERO, like

not even a case of pasta and spag sauce.

The herd truly will be thined.
Link Posted: 11/16/2009 9:44:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2009 9:45:29 AM EST by Dave_A]
Simple explanation, lost on many here:

They don't WANT to have to 'survive' - they want things the way they are now, and don't care what has to be done, or what they must give up to keep it that way...

For many people in the US, 'surviving' is not worth it, if they have to 'live a life worse than hell' (eg, live a 3rd-world existence) to do so...

As a direct contrast to those here who think life in anarchy/chaos would be great, and they could finally be 'left alone'....

While the 'me & my family' attitude is understandable on the part of the married folks who literally do live for their family...

For the single population, many will say 'what's the point'?
Link Posted: 11/16/2009 10:11:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2009 10:15:34 AM EST by KBL]
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Simple explanation, lost on many here:

They don't WANT to have to 'survive' - they want things the way they are now, and don't care what has to be done, or what they must give up to keep it that way...

For many people in the US, 'surviving' is not worth it, if they have to 'live a life worse than hell' (eg, live a 3rd-world existence) to do so...

As a direct contrast to those here who think life in anarchy/chaos would be great, and they could finally be 'left alone'....

While the 'me & my family' attitude is understandable on the part of the married folks who literally do live for their family...

For the single population, many will say 'what's the point'?


Except that when it really comes down to it, they'll be desperate to survive. The cavalier, "life's not worth living if I can't live as I'm accustomed to", won't even sound like the brave noise it was when they first said it. Of course they'll die off quickly because they won't have the means nor the temperment to survive. But, they'll try to hang on as long as they can despite what they may have said. It's the nature of all living things to try to survive. They'll just suck at it.

Link Posted: 11/16/2009 10:24:46 AM EST
Hey now, we've been trained for a couple generations to be nice, compliant sheeple and buy, buy, buy! It's not easy to take away someone's identity, especially when they don't want it to end. Folks are clinging on to the notion that they (and the US) are still #1, and will get down right nasty in order to keep them in "their place" (in their mind), and to write-off or ignore folks who are trying bring the truth. It's a dream, and the vast majority of Americans simply don't want to be waken from the dream.
Link Posted: 11/16/2009 10:33:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2009 10:37:48 AM EST by mstennes]
What scares me are, the ddruggies looking for their next fix, the gangs who will be totally uncontrollale and out in force without fear of LEO's, and the welfare receiptants who have not, do not know how to work will suddenly be without food, heat, etc and they to will be adding to the chaos, all they know are handouts, take those away and what do you have?

ETA, I remember, my dad telling me that durning the great depression, they had starving people trying to steal food (livestock and from the garden), and some trying to break in and get anything they could. This in itself is expected, ut these were people from Seattle (and Seattle area) and we live in in Cenrtal/Eastern Washington, a good 3 hours by car now, or about 200 miles. These people just kept fanning out, to travel that far has made me rethink my whole plan as now it take what 3 hours to get her and what a week back then?
Link Posted: 11/16/2009 11:26:58 AM EST
In the last election Nov 2008, the majority of American voters repudiated western European culture and tradition.
They voted for something-I-don't-know-what he is. Eventhough neither party really differs, let Americans reap the results of this election.
If Americans want to pursue the African cultural traditions, they'll learn about destruction the old fashioned way.
Link Posted: 11/16/2009 3:52:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By StagPower:
The more I talk to people, the more I see that even though they see things are just way too screwed up, many just cannot cope.

I know of those who have watched and even know that they need to prep, but something happens that they jsut stop, and prefer to live life and do nothing for their "future when it all goes south."

This goes of course with the general population that are on drugs just to cope with every day life, but also goes beyond that, in the fact that it is directly corillates with the fact that they know that every way we turn, things are just a mess.

In fact, I just spoke to a guy who emphatically stated, "I refuse to spend my time reading and watching when I cannot do squat to change the future or outcome of what is coming. I will simply do what it takes to enjoy life, and what adds to my life right now."

I could go on, but will not.

What is my point? I don't know. I just thought I would throw this out there if anyone would like to discuss this "pandemic" we have in this nation today.

StagPower


Back in the day I worked as a defence contractor after I got out. Worked with two guys who were really smart. One was a kid out of college and one was an X green beret viet nam era. We worked sattelite communications. Both refuesed to change the oil in their cars. These guys were really smart but destroyed their cars for a reason I still dont understand. My point is people do what they want and no ammount of logic will make them change their minds. Look around, the smartest guy you know may not have a clue and if its outside his comfort zone he doesnt want a clue. Prepare to help those you love and understand that some folks arent going to make it. You can try to get them to see the light but dont expect it to happen
Link Posted: 11/16/2009 3:56:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By mstennes:
What scares me are, the ddruggies looking for their next fix, the gangs who will be totally uncontrollale and out in force without fear of LEO's, and the welfare receiptants who have not, do not know how to work will suddenly be without food, heat, etc and they to will be adding to the chaos, all they know are handouts, take those away and what do you have?

ETA, I remember, my dad telling me that durning the great depression, they had starving people trying to steal food (livestock and from the garden), and some trying to break in and get anything they could. This in itself is expected, ut these were people from Seattle (and Seattle area) and we live in in Cenrtal/Eastern Washington, a good 3 hours by car now, or about 200 miles. These people just kept fanning out, to travel that far has made me rethink my whole plan as now it take what 3 hours to get her and what a week back then?


My mom told me of this in WVA after the depression.....My grandma was crazy and mean but she tried to shoot the SOB's who were trying to steal from the garden she was growing for her children. Ill be doing the same im afraid before its over.(for cousins kids....none of my own)
Link Posted: 11/16/2009 4:22:30 PM EST
The Grand plan, when the time comes for you folks to use your survival skills and preps, and everyone who did not prep is starving, the Federal Government will step in and invite all who are starving to imbrace Socialism, and they will do so. Why else is the Kenyan destroying America, the stupid people will be rewarded while you smarter people will become the crimials, the outcasts, the disobedient ones, you will be an enemy of the state and all will turn against you.

Link Posted: 11/16/2009 4:25:01 PM EST
Some of us just want to enjoy it all for a little while longer. You have to admit, this is a great way of life in a great country. Stop and smell the roses before the MZB's run them over.

Accountant
Link Posted: 11/16/2009 6:14:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By Starrbow:
The Grand plan, when the time comes for you folks to use your survival skills and preps, and everyone who did not prep is starving, the Federal Government will step in and invite all who are starving to imbrace Socialism, and they will do so. Why else is the Kenyan destroying America, the stupid people will be rewarded while you smarter people will become the crimials, the outcasts, the disobedient ones, you will be an enemy of the state and all will turn against you.



One man, in the right, IS a majority.

Ops
Link Posted: 11/16/2009 6:30:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By Accountant30339:
Some of us just want to enjoy it all for a little while longer. You have to admit, this is a great way of life in a great country. Stop and smell the roses before the MZB's run them over.

Accountant


Survivalist philosophy! I love it!
Link Posted: 11/16/2009 7:05:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By Starrbow:
The Grand plan, when the time comes for you folks to use your survival skills and preps, and everyone who did not prep is starving, the Federal Government will step in and invite all who are starving to imbrace Socialism, and they will do so. Why else is the Kenyan destroying America, the stupid people will be rewarded while you smarter people will become the crimials, the outcasts, the disobedient ones, you will be an enemy of the state and all will turn against you.

Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money - Margaret Thatcher

This will be the fall of the current strategy.

Link Posted: 11/19/2009 7:57:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
witness how hard the democrats are pushing this health care bill that a majority of the population doesn't want. How can you not feel disenfranchised watching a wholesale destruction/nationalization of an entire industry?

We've let them know how pissed off we are... but they're not listening... or if they are, it's not to us.


Polls don't support that claim though. I realize that its all in how you ask questions, but in fact theres far from a consensus one way or the other. A lot of folks want health care change, not many say the current system is perfect. Stars and Stripes ran an article this week saying that the numbers are about even for and against, and that the numbers only skew against reform when the pollsters ask if the surveyed person is willing to personally pay more for more universal coverage, and even then its not a large per centage against. Just largER.

There are still a lot of Americans who think that we should be joining the rest of the developed world in offering some form of universal health care. The Liberals are mad that the current legislation doesn't do that.
Link Posted: 11/20/2009 1:35:58 AM EST
Hey guys, I don't know if any of you have heard, but we already have universal health care. It's called "The Emergency Medical And Treatment Act". It requires hospitals to treat all who show up at their door. It is paid for with tax dollars from both the state and federal governments, but only at a rate of about 60% of actual cost. It is one of the reasons you will be billed $20 for an asparin, the hospital has to try to recover those dollars from somewhere.

It is a piss poor system because it does not cover any kind of follow up care, so those who are chronically sick just keep coming in and being treated over and over for the same thing. I read an article recently about a Huston hospital that found nine patients racked up over 2000 visits between them in just five years (don't have the article in front of me, so the numbers may be off, but they are fairly close). Think about that. Nine people racking up what most likely ran around a million or so dollars in bills.

You and I are picking up the tab for this. I am at the pointy end of the spear in all this, emergency medicine. I think we need some kind of sane system of health care for those that can not afford the current model. But I am scared shitless of the goings on in Washington, as they have not spent any time talking with healthcare professionals while drawing up their plans. They have no idea how they will pay for their plan. And, because they are polititions not doctors, they do not have the intestinal fortitude to make the hard decisions. Such as the decision to say "no" to treatments that do not bear fruit. "No" to patients that want instant access to doctors and limitless diagnostics for a head cold. "No" to the Huston Nine, who use the most expensive part of the medical system like the drive through at Micky D's.

The plan I'm hearing about seems to give a blank check to those that would abuse the system, making it no different than the system in place. Just a bigger price tag for the poor taxpayer. I don't have the answer, I'm not even sure where to begin. And I'm standing right here at the spicenter of the healthcare crisis. It is also clear to me that Washington does not have the answer, but they are not letting that stop them from ramming some patched together plan down our throats!

Just thought I'd share the fear a little. I think I'm going to jump to another site and order another couple of cases of foodstuffs now..........

Link Posted: 11/20/2009 2:29:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2009 2:55:01 AM EST by gewamser]
Though it may be true that the "general population" can't "cope"...where I live in the extreme northeast Wisconsin border country with the UP people will probably cope with any confligration just fine. This is because we are already doing well under current circumstances. The economy has ALWAYS been bad here, and making a living, even as a skilled Amish farmer, or logger... has always been tough hard work, and nobody's getting rich up here. But there is an upside to that. Like Canandians...we have had to be self reliant all along, our credit never went bad cause we couldn't get much to begin with, our property values in general stayed steady because it never wildly flucuated upward to begin with! At our core are alot of very tough stubborn Finns, Germans, Scandinavians and Indians...one of our main sayings here is: "SISU!" which literally means "stubborn determination". Furthermore "up nort" folks have a weird fatalistic sense of humor about it all... (See Jeff Daniels classic film: "Escanaba in Da Moonlight") humor & acceptance is an extreme form of mental health. (Don't ask about cabin fever!) We build things to last, we make do, we barter, trade, and do it on our own. When it comes to plumbing, barn building or fixing the old Toyota...we innovate, create, adapt, we garden, hunt, fish, trap, do home canning, cut our own firewood, and solar, wind and geothermal are nothing new here where the power lines might be ten miles away. Nothing is wasted...the blowdowns from a tornado are a ten years supply of firewood...road kills feed the hogs...waste wood from a small forest products factoriy is used for fuel and for making other wood crafts. We help one another...we still do barn raisings and cabin raisings, pound sand points together, and a host of other activities where neighbors share skills and labor. We do "recreational work"... We look after one anothers elderly and little kids...neighbors share a lucky over-abundant fish catch, blueberry pickings or more venison than our freezers can hold. Many of us still have family funerals in the family home. WE DO NOT THINK NEGATIVELY cos that don't do no good...even though we stash away food and ammo and supplies....we have always had to, especially when the snowplows don't run in some places between november and march...we need snowmobiles and snow shoes! Also we don't focus on the crazy shit going on in Washington, we ain't got time, we think locally, because if we don't, nobody else will. Many of us don't even get TV anymore, since the switch to digital, we are in a "dead zone"...and we feel extremely lucky about that, 'cept for Packer Games of course. We read alot of good books and we always have the beautiful aurora twinkling above and the great outdoors...like 19th century Americans we thrive on adversity. Know what a "wood-rat" is?? Here's a hint; it ain't a rodent! We got Indians around here that did'nt have to go back to being traditional cos they never became "modern" to begin with! You cannot even knock off a gas station around here cos EVERYBODY knows you! There is no such thing as "anonymity. And everybody knows Hemingway's favorite trout spots from way back then. God help any aliens that ever land here! Don't whine, buck up! SISU! It is a beautiful life.
Link Posted: 11/20/2009 4:58:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By KBL:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Simple explanation, lost on many here:

They don't WANT to have to 'survive' - they want things the way they are now, and don't care what has to be done, or what they must give up to keep it that way...

For many people in the US, 'surviving' is not worth it, if they have to 'live a life worse than hell' (eg, live a 3rd-world existence) to do so...

As a direct contrast to those here who think life in anarchy/chaos would be great, and they could finally be 'left alone'....

While the 'me & my family' attitude is understandable on the part of the married folks who literally do live for their family...

For the single population, many will say 'what's the point'?


Except that when it really comes down to it, they'll be desperate to survive. The cavalier, "life's not worth living if I can't live as I'm accustomed to", won't even sound like the brave noise it was when they first said it. Of course they'll die off quickly because they won't have the means nor the temperment to survive. But, they'll try to hang on as long as they can despite what they may have said. It's the nature of all living things to try to survive. They'll just suck at it.



and this post my friends, is the point about survival and prepping.

as preppers, you will have to steal yourselves to the fact that you will watch many, many strangers suffer and die, and some friends too.

if you have the finances and means to help friends and family to get by in hard times, great, do so it's the decent and or christian thing to do, but if you don't then you have to resign yourself that the best you can do is protect yourself and your immediate kin (wife, GF, kids, pets).

now I don't suggest you go out and pillage and plunder for your survival, that is wrong in the eyes of God or society if your a infidel, but to prepare for yourself is your duty to help carry on the best of the human race, and let the chaff fall away.
Link Posted: 11/20/2009 7:04:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/20/2009 7:26:15 AM EST
A good example of this was during the Yankees Victory Parade I was recently at in NYC. There were more cops there than I have ever seen before in one place in my life....However the crowd still outnumbered the police by hundreds to one. There were 3 million people in Lower Manhattan that day for the parade. By acting as a unified force, a small minority can control or subde a vast majority. Think the battle of Thermopylae for perspective.
Link Posted: 11/20/2009 7:44:49 AM EST
This may be a little off subject but as a whole american society has pussified itself. If that was the governments doing can be debated but mostly yes. At one time if you were a farmer you planned and saved food/$ for the bad year. Now you have crop insurance and goverment sub. At one time when you wanted a car you SAVED and bought one. Nowadays products are priced so high few can pay cash for anything and they are unwilling to save. Prepping as I see it is just going back a few years and living more like we should. Cash and food stores for bad times and knowledge for good and bad times. I am not saying we should all be mountian men and live of bark and bat shit but maybe we need to pull our heads out of the ipod and take a look around (rant off, The people I direct this at will never read it here)
Link Posted: 11/20/2009 7:47:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2009 7:49:09 AM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By KBL:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Simple explanation, lost on many here:

They don't WANT to have to 'survive' - they want things the way they are now, and don't care what has to be done, or what they must give up to keep it that way...

For many people in the US, 'surviving' is not worth it, if they have to 'live a life worse than hell' (eg, live a 3rd-world existence) to do so...

As a direct contrast to those here who think life in anarchy/chaos would be great, and they could finally be 'left alone'....

While the 'me & my family' attitude is understandable on the part of the married folks who literally do live for their family...

For the single population, many will say 'what's the point'?


Except that when it really comes down to it, they'll be desperate to survive. The cavalier, "life's not worth living if I can't live as I'm accustomed to", won't even sound like the brave noise it was when they first said it. Of course they'll die off quickly because they won't have the means nor the temperment to survive. But, they'll try to hang on as long as they can despite what they may have said. It's the nature of all living things to try to survive. They'll just suck at it.


No, they'll all unite around the first person who promises to bring back the past, no matter who they have to trample over to get there...

See Germany, post-WWI....

As very well publicized, I'm going for option 3: If the US falls, I'm leaving.
Link Posted: 11/20/2009 7:58:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By stormwalker:
Originally Posted By KBL:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Simple explanation, lost on many here:

They don't WANT to have to 'survive' - they want things the way they are now, and don't care what has to be done, or what they must give up to keep it that way...

For many people in the US, 'surviving' is not worth it, if they have to 'live a life worse than hell' (eg, live a 3rd-world existence) to do so...

As a direct contrast to those here who think life in anarchy/chaos would be great, and they could finally be 'left alone'....

While the 'me & my family' attitude is understandable on the part of the married folks who literally do live for their family...

For the single population, many will say 'what's the point'?


Except that when it really comes down to it, they'll be desperate to survive. The cavalier, "life's not worth living if I can't live as I'm accustomed to", won't even sound like the brave noise it was when they first said it. Of course they'll die off quickly because they won't have the means nor the temperment to survive. But, they'll try to hang on as long as they can despite what they may have said. It's the nature of all living things to try to survive. They'll just suck at it.



and this post my friends, is the point about survival and prepping.

as preppers, you will have to steal yourselves to the fact that you will watch many, many strangers suffer and die, and some friends too.

if you have the finances and means to help friends and family to get by in hard times, great, do so it's the decent and or christian thing to do, but if you don't then you have to resign yourself that the best you can do is protect yourself and your immediate kin (wife, GF, kids, pets).

now I don't suggest you go out and pillage and plunder for your survival, that is wrong in the eyes of God or society if your a infidel, but to prepare for yourself is your duty to help carry on the best of the human race, and let the chaff fall away.


The problem, beyon friends is, they SHOULD have been prepared, I agree its the christian thing to do, ut you also have to evaulate the cost, in means of how much is it going to hamper your survival. Will they need protection? Will they tell others of your stores? Will they tell others of your plans for protection, how your armed, etc? Will they just rely on you, and become parasites? This also goes for family, ;ets face it, not all of our families are the "best" of people, yes they are blood, but,,,, Just saying.
Link Posted: 11/20/2009 10:02:34 AM EST
“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin

“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” - Thomas Jefferson


Originally Posted By StagPower:
The more I talk to people, the more I see that even though they see things are just way too screwed up, many just cannot cope.

I know of those who have watched and even know that they need to prep, but something happens that they jsut stop, and prefer to live life and do nothing for their "future when it all goes south."

This goes of course with the general population that are on drugs just to cope with every day life, but also goes beyond that, in the fact that it is directly corillates with the fact that they know that every way we turn, things are just a mess.

In fact, I just spoke to a guy who emphatically stated, "I refuse to spend my time reading and watching when I cannot do squat to change the future or outcome of what is coming. I will simply do what it takes to enjoy life, and what adds to my life right now."

I could go on, but will not.

What is my point? I don't know. I just thought I would throw this out there if anyone would like to discuss this "pandemic" we have in this nation today.

StagPower



In recent conversations with old co-workers and friends, I have noticed the same thing. I liken it to a type of "Stockholm Syndrome" without the hostage/captivity element, unless you make the argument that the populace is currently being held hostage by our government. To my point though, it

seems that people have given up to an extent and some of them are even trying/attempting to "rationalize" what is happening with the governments attempts to increase its control over the people. I have never seen so many people with so little optimism for their future. The only benefit to this

situation is that if a "real" leader steps forward with a clear message for a way out of this mess, he/she will have a massive following of loyal hard working people behind them, much like President Reagan in the mid to late '80's. The danger is that this leader could end up being someone comparable

to Stalin or Hitler. The problem is that there is a leadership void in this country right now. There is no clear vision for the future, at least a vision that people are comfortable with, being put forth by anyone, in any political party.

The only way the politicians in Washington will listen to the discontent of people in this country today, is if there is a massive march on the capitol building with millions of people showing up. This they will listen to. The problem is that the people who are discontent are to busy with their day to day

lives to get on a bus and go protest for several days in Washington. So, prep on brothers!

Link Posted: 11/20/2009 10:24:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By 14TheKid:
“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin

“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” - Thomas Jefferson


Originally Posted By StagPower:
The more I talk to people, the more I see that even though they see things are just way too screwed up, many just cannot cope.

I know of those who have watched and even know that they need to prep, but something happens that they jsut stop, and prefer to live life and do nothing for their "future when it all goes south."

This goes of course with the general population that are on drugs just to cope with every day life, but also goes beyond that, in the fact that it is directly corillates with the fact that they know that every way we turn, things are just a mess.

In fact, I just spoke to a guy who emphatically stated, "I refuse to spend my time reading and watching when I cannot do squat to change the future or outcome of what is coming. I will simply do what it takes to enjoy life, and what adds to my life right now."

I could go on, but will not.

What is my point? I don't know. I just thought I would throw this out there if anyone would like to discuss this "pandemic" we have in this nation today.

StagPower



In recent conversations with old co-workers and friends, I have noticed the same thing. I liken it to a type of "Stockholm Syndrome" without the hostage/captivity element, unless you make the argument that the populace is currently being held hostage by our government. To my point though, it

seems that people have given up to an extent and some of them are even trying/attempting to "rationalize" what is happening with the governments attempts to increase its control over the people. I have never seen so many people with so little optimism for their future. The only benefit to this

situation is that if a "real" leader steps forward with a clear message for a way out of this mess, he/she will have a massive following of loyal hard working people behind them, much like President Reagan in the mid to late '80's. The danger is that this leader could end up being someone comparable

to Stalin or Hitler. The problem is that there is a leadership void in this country right now. There is no clear vision for the future, at least a vision that people are comfortable with, being put forth by anyone, in any political party.

The only way the politicians in Washington will listen to the discontent of people in this country today, is if there is a massive march on the capitol building with millions of people showing up. This they will listen to. The problem is that the people who are discontent are to busy with their day to day

lives to get on a bus and go protest for several days in Washington. So, prep on brothers!



Contrast their behavior to those who actually support this stuff.... I've seen a number of trolls in various comment threads, recently, hammering away big-lie style at the idea that anyone who is wealthy is a "parasite". No, no one ever actually earns anything, it's all just taking it from everyone else... classic marxist zero-sum fallacy with a class-envy dressing on it.

Even more interesting, though, is when these trolls assert that the "few liberties" we've lost have been exchanged for a great many unspecific modern "things". I have a feeling that what they're talking about is the modern state in general... some people are simply TERRIFIED of the idea that they'd have to make their own way by actually producing something of value, be responsible for themselves, and set a course for their own life. People like this want to be coddled by big brother.

A lot of those people simply don't want to grow up and be adults.
Link Posted: 11/20/2009 10:43:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By thehellbringer:
The housing crisis is only just beginning.


If enough people lose their houses, eventually, no one will lose their houses.
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