School me on winches

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - School me on winches (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 2/27/2008 3:44:22 PM EDT

I've got a 05 Tacoma 4x4 with the TRD package and electric locker. Its almost out of warrenty so I'm starting to shop around for parts. This will be my daily driver and BOV for a LONG time to come. I want to replace the chincy bumpers with something more substantial and mount a winch. I think I've found the bumper I want, which is shown below.

I dont know shit about wiches though. What should I be looking for in a wich. I really dont want to spend more than $700 on a winch if thats possible. It probably wont be used very often if at all. So far I've only been stuck once and that was on my bald 31"s. Ive got a set of 33s ready to install now. Hopefully by this time next year I'll be locked fron and rear and sitting on a set of 35s.

I know Warn makes a good winch but they are kinda pricey. Are there any other acceptable alternatives?

Posted: 2/27/2008 3:45:54 PM EDT

[#1]

Try and find a used WARN. Ive got a Harbor Freight renamed MIle Marker 9k. I really havent had to use it, ive worked it and respooled it and it seems to do well.

Posted: 2/27/2008 3:46:44 PM EDT

[#2]

School me on winches

... Stay a way from the ex Mrs. Amber Winston_Wolf, there was a reason I divorced her years ago

Sorry, I just had to

Posted: 2/27/2008 4:02:38 PM EDT

[#3]

Do some research on steel winch cable vs. synthetic winch rope.

Posted: 2/27/2008 4:13:14 PM EDT

[#4]

Warn is hands down the best for electric winches. Other people will say their HF special gets the job done, its just slow. I have 4-wheeled long enough to know that speed and quality matter too.

If you don't want to spend more then $700, look at the Tabor series of winches. They make a 9K and 12K model. They are manufactured by Warn and are compatable with Warn controllers. Tabors are smooth, quiet and almost as fast as the name brand warn stuff.

I have been around Superwinches, Ramseys, HF's, Mile Marker electrics and none of them are as well built. They all tend to be louder and slower with a load on. You get what you pay for here.

You will need a 8000 or 9000 model. General rule of thumb is buy a winch that is rated for 1.5 times your gross loaded weight. I consider that to be a minimum. Also, no winch in complete without a recovery kit including a tree saver strap, pulley block, choker chain, gloves, recovery strap and D-shackes.

The steel cable most winches come with is marginally strong enough for the job. It kinks easy and stores a lot energy so when it breaks, its deadly. The solution is to buy synthetic cable like AmSteel Blue. It is stronger then steel, rolls up easy, and doesn't stretch and store energy like steel cable.

Gowarn.com is a good site for order the winch and rockstomper.com has good prices on the Amsteel Blue syn. rope.

I'll check back later, I'm a little short on time right now.

Posted: 2/27/2008 4:23:28 PM EDT

[#5]

AAaarrrrr, everybody needs a good winch to clean the sihp....

OOoppps, I'm sorry, I thought you said wench.

[churchlady] Nevermind [/churchlady]

Posted: 2/27/2008 4:32:57 PM EDT

[#6]

I've had great luck with a couple 5k lb. Warn's but allways wished I had a Ramsey...
As mentioned just hunt for a used one. Good Luck and nice truck...

Posted: 2/27/2008 4:34:00 PM EDT

[#7]

Take a look at the Smittybuilt XCR8000. Great winch for $299.00. I have one on my Rubicon and have used it several times with great satisfaction. Is it as fast or as quiet as a Warn? No, but it's not $800.00 either. I am going to order a couple more. One to put on my old '74 Bronco and another to mount on the front of my goose neck trailer to load dead tractors and such. Even after buying three of them, I still won't have the cost of one of some other #8000 winches. I don't do any competition four wheeling, so I don't really care if it takes me a few more minutes to make a pull and so far the Smittybuilt has been totally reliable.

Smittybuilt winch linky

Posted: 2/27/2008 4:34:21 PM EDT

[#8]

I have not done a lot of winching, but I do know that very often I wish my winch was on the back of the truck. If you are out working your way over a really rocky trail for fun, then you might always go forward, but when you get stuck by yourself way back somwhere, a lot of the time you want to go backwards. I would recommend one of the models which mounts to a receiver hitch, and can be moved from front to back.

Posted: 2/27/2008 4:40:45 PM EDT

[#9]

SGTCap,

Pick up a Warn M8000. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles some of the others have, but it is a hard working reliable piece of gear that can be had new for less than $500 if you shop around a little. Less if you go to evilbay and buy used. You won't be disappointed.

Posted: 2/27/2008 4:45:23 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I've got a 05 Tacoma 4x4 with the TRD package and electric locker. Its almost out of warrenty so I'm starting to shop around for parts. This will be my daily driver and BOV for a LONG time to come. I want to replace the chincy bumpers with something more substantial and mount a winch. I think I've found the bumper I want, which is shown below. allprooffroad.com/images/stories/Trailarmor/05_bumper_lg.JPG I dont know shit about wiches though. What should I be looking for in a wich. I really dont want to spend more than $700 on a winch if thats possible. It probably wont be used very often if at all. So far I've only been stuck once and that was on my bald 31"s. Ive got a set of 33s ready to install now. Hopefully by this time next year I'll be locked fron and rear and sitting on a set of 35s.

I know Warn makes a good winch but they are kinda pricey. Are there any other acceptable alternatives?

who makes that bumper?-nevermind

Posted: 2/27/2008 5:11:58 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
I have not done a lot of winching, but I do know that very often I wish my winch was on the back of the truck. If you are out working your way over a really rocky trail for fun, then you might always go forward, but when you get stuck by yourself way back somwhere, a lot of the time you want to go backwards. I would recommend one of the models which mounts to a receiver hitch, and can be moved from front to back.

Exactly what i was going to say. A 5K on a reciever front and rear is the ticket, esp since you don't plan on using it much. It can be stored safe and dry at home or in the bed on a third reciever mount if you choose. I see no reason to mount it on a daily driver and risk having oit stolen or damaged. If 5K isn't enough, use the snatch block. Most stucks need little extra help to get out.

Posted: 2/27/2008 5:38:10 PM EDT

[#12]

I've got a ShrockWorks front bumper - first rate stuff. I've put a MileMarker SE-12000 winch inside the bumper. Out here I'm always with someone else when wheeling. It's 100% faster to hook up a pull strap and tug the truck rather than to winch it. I have used mine to move a dead bug (VW) out off the trail. A couple of guys in the club have them and they're a great item to have as a last chance rescue device. Wheeling alone is a life and death thing out here ... Death Valley is dangerous

The jeeper creeper guys who rock crawl making a few hundred yards a day put lots of time on their winches. I'm not a rock crawler and don't see ever becoming one.

Posted: 2/27/2008 5:46:40 PM EDT

[#13]

Wow a 12K winch and street tires, nice combo.

Posted: 2/27/2008 6:02:54 PM EDT

[#14]

With an offroad bumper and a winch, you are going to need some stiffer springs.

Posted: 2/27/2008 6:06:12 PM EDT

[#15]

Thatnks for the tip on the Tabor winches. I'm definately going to look into those.

I uderstand the point on having a reciever mounted winch. I know me though and the chances of me taking it out of the truck and then needing it are pretty good. I rather mount it up and know the thing is there. I dont whell my truck, at least not yet. I take it hunting and do other outdoors stuff that sometimes puts me in bad situations. I see a bumper mounted winch as an insurance policy just like the pistol on my hip.

BTW those Shrockworks bumpers are nice. I looked at them closely but for the Taco I think the Allpro has better approach angles and its lighter and cheaper. Still the Shrockworks is badass.

Posted: 2/27/2008 6:20:45 PM EDT

[#16]

eh, receiver mounts seem flimsy to me, but I've only used them on full size trucks.... May be fine on Yota...

Posted: 2/27/2008 6:24:21 PM EDT

[#17]

As has been said, Warn would be the best choice. Aside from a quality product, their customer service is really good too. Ramsey, on the other handShop around for a used 8 or 9k pound unit. Don't worry about synthetic rope at this point. As long as the cable is in good shape you will be fine. In addition to the winch, don't overlook your electrical system. Make sure that your battery and alternator are up to the demands of winching.

Posted: 2/27/2008 6:34:07 PM EDT

[#18]

Superwinch Hydraulic Worm Drive winch FTW.

SUPERWINCH

Posted: 2/27/2008 7:51:32 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Wow a 12K winch and street tires, nice combo.

They're "Rugged Trails" unfortuanatley after dropping over $2700 on skids, sliders, front and rear bumpers, a winch, off-road lights, and other recovery gear I wasn't ready to shit can the brand-new stock tires. They did manage to carry me over several black diamond trails while suffering a few cuts but no flats or places I couldn't get though. The science actually says that a more full tread tire is better in desert sand and the rocks we get here ... but to hell with that I got mud/terrains so I could prove how big my $#&@ is.

Paul
(poor working slob)

Posted: 2/27/2008 7:54:40 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Thatnks for the tip on the Tabor winches. I'm definately going to look into those.

I uderstand the point on having a reciever mounted winch. I know me though and the chances of me taking it out of the truck and then needing it are pretty good. I rather mount it up and know the thing is there. I dont whell my truck, at least not yet. I take it hunting and do other outdoors stuff that sometimes puts me in bad situations. I see a bumper mounted winch as an insurance policy just like the pistol on my hip.

BTW those Shrockworks bumpers are nice. I looked at them closely but for the Taco I think the Allpro has better approach angles and its lighter and cheaper. Still the Shrockworks is badass.

Here is a link to the Tabor 9K Winch.

With regard to the receiver mounted winches. I had one for 2 or 3 years. It got the job done, but I was always nervous about using it. Besides the fact that it was heavy to lift (110+ lbs), it did not handle side pulls very well are really stressed the receiver mount because the winch stuck out so far it had a lot of leverage on the mount. This was a Warn XD9000i multi mount system.

Now I have the XD9000i permanently mounted to the front of the truck and a Warn M6000SDP on the back using a special receiver mount. The M6000SDP is a multi mount setup, but it does not have the sideways leverage like the bigger models and it is a smaller winch anyway. I also use it on my trailer for loading up dead or broken vehicles.

If you did want a portable winch the M6000sdp is a good compormise between size and pulling power. I would suggest a good 8K or 9K model though for starters.

Posted: 2/27/2008 8:13:13 PM EDT

[#21]

If you have the money get the Warn, there's a reason they've been around for decades. On the other hand, I and several of my wheelin' buddies have Harbor Freight winches and none of them have failed yet. When you're shopping around keep in mind that a mounting plate and fairlead may not be included in the price (separate mounting plate may not be required).

Posted: 2/27/2008 8:24:12 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have not done a lot of winching, but I do know that very often I wish my winch was on the back of the truck. If you are out working your way over a really rocky trail for fun, then you might always go forward, but when you get stuck by yourself way back somwhere, a lot of the time you want to go backwards. I would recommend one of the models which mounts to a receiver hitch, and can be moved from front to back.

Exactly what i was going to say. A 5K on a reciever front and rear is the ticket, esp since you don't plan on using it much. It can be stored safe and dry at home or in the bed on a third reciever mount if you choose. I see no reason to mount it on a daily driver and risk having oit stolen or damaged. If 5K isn't enough, use the snatch block. Most stucks need little extra help to get out.

Great advice for a daily driver.

Posted: 2/27/2008 9:18:14 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Wow a 12K winch and street tires, nice combo.

They're "Rugged Trails" unfortuanatley after dropping over $2700 on skids, sliders, front and rear bumpers, a winch, off-road lights, and other recovery gear I wasn't ready to shit can the brand-new stock tires. They did manage to carry me over several black diamond trails while suffering a few cuts but no flats or places I couldn't get though. The science actually says that a more full tread tire is better in desert sand and the rocks we get here ... but to hell with that I got mud/terrains so I could prove how big my $#&@ is.

Paul
(poor working slob)
Ohhh rugged trails...Yes in many places a tighter tread does do better at preventing holes...But then you show the whole rig! LMAO 12K winch on that? No way you have a battery/alternator that will run that for more than a few seconds...How are those nerf bars working for you offroad? Sorry, I may be wrong but it looks like another pavement hero rig to me.
i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/paul1960/Xterra/CaliforniaWinter02.jpg

Posted: 2/29/2008 2:43:33 AM EDT

[#24]

I love the pictures of all the spiffy brand new vehicles that don't look like they've seen a minute of off road use in their lives. The tires are shiney.....even inside their treads.

If I were to build an off road vehicle, it would be a used, paid for, hand painted, dented up shitbox that I wouldn't be afraid of rolling on its side or scraping on a tree, not some showroom finished vehicle that I'm making payments on.

Posted: 2/29/2008 5:38:37 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
I love the pictures of all the spiffy brand new vehicles that don't look like they've seen a minute of off road use in their lives. The tires are shiney.....even inside their treads.

If I were to build an off road vehicle, it would be a used, paid for, hand painted, dented up shitbox that I wouldn't be afraid of rolling on its side or scraping on a tree, not some showroom finished vehicle that I'm making payments on.

Kinda random but I'll play along. My truck is an 05. IT has 85k on the odo. You can tell its a truck and used as such. Its normally dirty, hell its only been washed a handfull of times. THere are scratches on the side of the bed from rubbing branches while out hunting. I dont do shiney wheels and have no use for "bling". Anything that gets added to my truck serves a purpose.

I dont trust anyone with clean boots or a clean pickup. Both mean they arent workin very hard

Posted: 2/29/2008 5:45:56 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
I love the pictures of all the spiffy brand new vehicles that don't look like they've seen a minute of off road use in their lives. The tires are shiney.....even inside their treads.

If I were to build an off road vehicle, it would be a used, paid for, hand painted, dented up shitbox that I wouldn't be afraid of rolling on its side or scraping on a tree, not some showroom finished vehicle that I'm making payments on.

I can assure you mine isnt a mall crawler by any means. I do understand what your saying, I live in urban ville and see more lifted F350s and H2/3s with mudder tires but all shined up and will never see the anything more than grass at the soccer field. lol

But you do have to remember, most parts are shiney and new and that ppl like to show off their NEW additions, in some cases its just a matter of time and opputunity for them to get it all dirty. lol.

Posted: 2/29/2008 6:35:03 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I love the pictures of all the spiffy brand new vehicles that don't look like they've seen a minute of off road use in their lives. The tires are shiney.....even inside their treads.

If I were to build an off road vehicle, it would be a used, paid for, hand painted, dented up shitbox that I wouldn't be afraid of rolling on its side or scraping on a tree, not some showroom finished vehicle that I'm making payments on.

Kinda random but I'll play along. My truck is an 05. IT has 85k on the odo. You can tell its a truck and used as such. Its normally dirty, hell its only been washed a handfull of times. THere are scratches on the side of the bed from rubbing branches while out hunting. I dont do shiney wheels and have no use for "bling". Anything that gets added to my truck serves a purpose.

I dont trust anyone with clean boots or a clean pickup. Both mean they arent workin very hard

Nah, Just means they know what soap and water is.

Not everyone is an extreme offroader but simply people who find themselves offroad from time to time.

Of course, I can't say much. My new truck is covered with mud right now.

Tj

Posted: 2/29/2008 6:56:00 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Warn is hands down the best for electric winches. Other people will say their HF special gets the job done, its just slow. I have 4-wheeled long enough to know that speed and quality matter too.

Yep, I learned my lesson with a cheap winch ($300 7500# Champion from Sam's Club). The first time I used it, I was hauling somebody up out of the snow on a pretty steep forest road. It took forever because he kept overrunning the winch line on the way up. We'd have to stop, reset the line on the tow hook, and spool in the slack every minute or so.

After getting back from running most of the trails in the Ouray area, I tried my Champion out at home only to discover that the motor was seized. Disassembly and reassembly got it working, but that would have really sucked on the trail.

Posted: 2/29/2008 7:29:56 AM EDT

[#29]

I have been extremely displeased with my Warn 9.5Ti. I only used it maybe three times - the 4th time it was seized up completely and was useless. I had to send it for warranty and it was something like $450.00 for the repair bill. I only had to pay for shipping but it was a real bear to get them to do it - they wanted the original reciept as proof of purchase. The dated and serial numbered slip that came with the winch wasn't enough. I wound up having to get a memo signed by the dealer who had sold it to me before they would do the work. The guy at the shop said it looked like I had used it as a tow strap, but I knew that was bad juju so I made sure never to do that. It's still in the return shipping box, I havent been able to re-mount it yet. My next winch will definitly NOT be a Warn product.

-K

Posted: 2/29/2008 7:44:45 AM EDT

[#30]

Just a comment on Mile Marker winches...I was mounting one on my ATV yesterdayand had a wiring question. The web site was "locked?" so i emailed them. This am when I got up I had a reply with color pics and links.....Pretty damn good service so far if you ask me.

Posted: 2/29/2008 8:17:16 AM EDT

[#31]

Hydraulic winches don't have the same overheating/seizing woes that the electrics do -the only drawback is your engine has to be running.

Posted: 2/29/2008 9:02:33 AM EDT

[#32]

How much does your truck weight? Good, not AT LEAST double that. thats how much winch you need. Now.. WARN makes some seriously good shit.. but, at $700, you may come up short. Champion, mile marker, and some other chineese knock-off types make a pretty darn good winch for a LOT less money. If you plan on winching A LOT, pay the money for the warn. if its for the occasional pull, go with a high weight capacity lesser winch.

Also, get a snatch block, so you can double your pulling power, and make sure the line is rated for the kind of load you will be imparting.

Posted: 2/29/2008 9:02:46 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I love the pictures of all the spiffy brand new vehicles that don't look like they've seen a minute of off road use in their lives. The tires are shiney.....even inside their treads.

If I were to build an off road vehicle, it would be a used, paid for, hand painted, dented up shitbox that I wouldn't be afraid of rolling on its side or scraping on a tree, not some showroom finished vehicle that I'm making payments on.

Kinda random but I'll play along. My truck is an 05. IT has 85k on the odo. You can tell its a truck and used as such. Its normally dirty, hell its only been washed a handfull of times. THere are scratches on the side of the bed from rubbing branches while out hunting. I dont do shiney wheels and have no use for "bling". Anything that gets added to my truck serves a purpose.

I dont trust anyone with clean boots or a clean pickup. Both mean they arent workin very hard

Nah, Just means they know what soap and water is.

Not everyone is an extreme offroader but simply people who find themselves offroad from time to time.

Of course, I can't say much. My new truck is covered with mud right now.

Tj

Hey I'm not a hardcore offroader either. I just know that some things are for work and others for play. I've had pretty cars in the past and enjoyed them. I just moved past that point in my life. Now everything is for "work." Not neccisarily my job, but everything has a purpose, and it all gets used. My 4x4 is dirty and muddy, not polished and shiney, and my Wilson is on my hip not in my safe. Both quality tools that get used

Posted: 2/29/2008 9:08:06 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
How much does your truck weight? Good, not AT LEAST double that. thats how much winch you need. Now.. WARN makes some seriously good shit.. but, at $700, you may come up short. Champion, mile marker, and some other chineese knock-off types make a pretty darn good winch for a LOT less money. If you plan on winching A LOT, pay the money for the warn. if its for the occasional pull, go with a high weight capacity lesser winch.

Also, get a snatch block, so you can double your pulling power, and make sure the line is rated for the kind of load you will be imparting.

I dont plan to use it a lot. But I do expect then when I need it, I will REALLY need it. For my truck toys are not acceptable. What goes on there has to work and it has to work EVERY time. I don't normally play around offroad. I learned my leasson about that a long time ago. So if I'm stuck its because something bad happened and I'm on my own.

Quoted:
I have been extremely displeased with my Warn 9.5Ti. I only used it maybe three times - the 4th time it was seized up completely and was useless. I had to send it for warranty and it was something like $450.00 for the repair bill. I only had to pay for shipping but it was a real bear to get them to do it - they wanted the original reciept as proof of purchase. The dated and serial numbered slip that came with the winch wasn't enough. I wound up having to get a memo signed by the dealer who had sold it to me before they would do the work. The guy at the shop said it looked like I had used it as a tow strap, but I knew that was bad juju so I made sure never to do that. It's still in the return shipping box, I havent been able to re-mount it yet. My next winch will definitly NOT be a Warn product.

-K

Thats disheartening to hear to say the least. I always thought they had good customer service

Posted: 2/29/2008 9:08:31 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Hydraulic winches don't have the same overheating/seizing woes that the electrics do -the only drawback is your engine has to be running.

People better have their engines running with electric winches too or they will have dead batts in short order. Hydraulic winches are stronger but require more plumping and hoses, etc. Different strokes for different folks.

Posted: 2/29/2008 10:13:33 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hydraulic winches don't have the same overheating/seizing woes that the electrics do -the only drawback is your engine has to be running.

People better have their engines running with electric winches too or they will have dead batts in short order. Hydraulic winches are stronger but require more plumping and hoses, etc. Different strokes for different folks.

You can run them off your power steering pump.
Mile marker sells one too.
True, different strokes.

Posted: 2/29/2008 10:40:11 AM EDT

[#37]

when cash flow premits the XJ will be getting either a harbor freight or champion 8-9k lb winch. i will take electric over hydo any day. the ability to run the winch with the engine off is a big + and you should have a deep cycle batt if your running a winch.

Posted: 2/29/2008 12:47:48 PM EDT

[#38]

This is a Ramsey 6,000 mounted on my Jeep. I have used it a lot for off-roading and also quite a bit for pulling wood and dead animals out of hard to reach places in the woods. I have been totally satisfied with it. No complaints at all. It has the original steel cable and is still in great shape. I always re-spool it after each outing.

I carry a snatch block, tree saver, two bow shackles, short piece of chain, a tow strap, and a pair of heavy gloves in the back and have used all of it a lot.

During off-road events the tow strap gets used the most since it is a lot easier and quicker to get someone unstuck with it.

When on hunting trips the winch is usually the only way out of a stuck place.

I have a good Hi-lift jack but have never used it to get unstuck. Only to change tires and lift the Jeep to work on it.

Posted: 2/29/2008 1:30:55 PM EDT

[#39]

Two guys in my rescue squad have the Tabor and have been pleased with them. Unfortunately, the cables don't have that well used look about them, so they haven't been used that much. Milemarker has a good electric 9000 lb. pull winch for about $550.00 that is less than the Warns but more than the low end stuff. The hydraulic Milemarker units will cost about $850 with a manifold and hose kit. I think the military bought some for the sandbox to replace the Warn electrics which were overheating. The hydraulic winches can do long pulls at near full load, that is why you find them on tow trucks. Obviously, the engine has to be running to use them, so no good if you are fiording rivers and drown the engine. Electric winches are dependant on the battery for any loads over about 1/3 power or 100 amps motor current. Most 8000-9000 lb pull units will pull over 300 amps at full load. I have a Pierce 9000 electric and it has done well for me (it is like a Ramsey DC2000 worm gear winch). The Pierce is about $700 but is hard to mount (4 holes horizontal on front and back). Since you usually only need to move your truck about 10 feet to get unstuck, electrics can do alright for most of us. The sheepherders jack is a useful tool, but most late model sport utility vehicles can't be jacked up on their stock bumpers. I would say that the Milemarker and Tabor are the best for your price range.
Edit: Synthetic winch ropes require different fairleads than for the common wire cable. I have never seen a synthetic cable on a commerical wrecker, so it must not be as cut resistant as the good old stuff.

RS

Posted: 2/29/2008 5:44:17 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Two guys in my rescue squad have the Tabor and have been pleased with them. Unfortunately, the cables don't have that well used look about them, so they haven't been used that much. Milemarker has a good electric 9000 lb. pull winch for about $550.00 that is less than the Warns but more than the low end stuff. The hydraulic Milemarker units will cost about $850 with a manifold and hose kit. I think the military bought some for the sandbox to replace the Warn electrics which were overheating. The hydraulic winches can do long pulls at near full load, that is why you find them on tow trucks. Obviously, the engine has to be running to use them, so no good if you are fiording rivers and drown the engine. Electric winches are dependant on the battery for any loads over about 1/3 power or 100 amps motor current. Most 8000-9000 lb pull units will pull over 300 amps at full load. I have a Pierce 9000 electric and it has done well for me (it is like a Ramsey DC2000 worm gear winch). The Pierce is about $700 but is hard to mount (4 holes horizontal on front and back). Since you usually only need to move your truck about 10 feet to get unstuck, electrics can do alright for most of us. The sheepherders jack is a useful tool, but most late model sport utility vehicles can't be jacked up on their stock bumpers. I would say that the Milemarker and Tabor are the best for your price range.
Edit: Synthetic winch ropes require different fairleads than for the common wire cable. I have never seen a synthetic cable on a commerical wrecker, so it must not be as cut resistant as the good old stuff.

RS

Great input, thanks.

Posted: 2/29/2008 5:55:16 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Two guys in my rescue squad have the Tabor and have been pleased with them. Unfortunately, the cables don't have that well used look about them, so they haven't been used that much. Milemarker has a good electric 9000 lb. pull winch for about $550.00 that is less than the Warns but more than the low end stuff. The hydraulic Milemarker units will cost about $850 with a manifold and hose kit. I think the military bought some for the sandbox to replace the Warn electrics which were overheating. The hydraulic winches can do long pulls at near full load, that is why you find them on tow trucks. Obviously, the engine has to be running to use them, so no good if you are fiording rivers and drown the engine. Electric winches are dependant on the battery for any loads over about 1/3 power or 100 amps motor current. Most 8000-9000 lb pull units will pull over 300 amps at full load. I have a Pierce 9000 electric and it has done well for me (it is like a Ramsey DC2000 worm gear winch). The Pierce is about $700 but is hard to mount (4 holes horizontal on front and back). Since you usually only need to move your truck about 10 feet to get unstuck, electrics can do alright for most of us. The sheepherders jack is a useful tool, but most late model sport utility vehicles can't be jacked up on their stock bumpers. I would say that the Milemarker and Tabor are the best for your price range.
Edit: Synthetic winch ropes require different fairleads than for the common wire cable. I have never seen a synthetic cable on a commerical wrecker, so it must not be as cut resistant as the good old stuff.

RS

Great input, thanks.

Yes, thank you vey much

Posted: 2/29/2008 6:58:41 PM EDT

[#42]

Here's a link to a winch article for beginners that I wrote a while back, be sure the check out the links included as well.

Winches for beginners click here.

One topic I forgot to get into in the article is winch speed. Most folks mistakenly look at fully loaded speed which is fairly consistant across the board for winches. If you are pulling at full load or close to it, then you are stuck and any motion is a good thing, speed doesn't matter. What does matter is no load line speed. Picture this if you will. Steep hill climb, hit a tough spot so you have to spool out the winch. You regain traction with a short pull, is your winch fast enough that you can maintain forward momentum without the cable dropping to the ground and becoming wrapped around the axle? This is where you want a fast winch, to avoid having to stop and wind in the cable, restart, only to need it again a few feet later. Its a good idea to help the winch if at all possible by having the tires turning, if you get traction, the winch should be able to keep up, if not you're going to have to stop so the winch can pick up its slack. It makes for a long day.

I have owned 4 Warn winches and love em, of course I got em for bargain prices so that helps. There are deals out there, you just have to look. I have yet to pay more than $550 for a Warn winch, including the 9500i and M8000 I got brand new. Currently the best deal in the winch market that I have found is the rebadged T-max being sold by Summit Racing. Quality winch at a really good price, it even uses bearings instead of bushings to support its mainshaft.

Lest anyone think I'm making this up,

Here's the old rig, now sold.
http://www.the-jersey-devil.com/photopost/data/500/101IMG_1465-med.JPG

Current project.
http://www.the-jersey-devil.com/photopost/data/521/101jeep8-med.JPG

And the wife's daily driver.
http://www.the-jersey-devil.com/photopost/data/637/101rubic-med.JPG

If I can expand upon anything in the article or this post to help out then post up and I'll do what I can.

Posted: 2/29/2008 7:13:18 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Two guys in my rescue squad have the Tabor and have been pleased with them. Unfortunately, the cables don't have that well used look about them, so they haven't been used that much. Milemarker has a good electric 9000 lb. pull winch for about $550.00 that is less than the Warns but more than the low end stuff. The hydraulic Milemarker units will cost about $850 with a manifold and hose kit. I think the military bought some for the sandbox to replace the Warn electrics which were overheating. The hydraulic winches can do long pulls at near full load, that is why you find them on tow trucks. Obviously, the engine has to be running to use them, so no good if you are fiording rivers and drown the engine. Electric winches are dependant on the battery for any loads over about 1/3 power or 100 amps motor current. Most 8000-9000 lb pull units will pull over 300 amps at full load. I have a Pierce 9000 electric and it has done well for me (it is like a Ramsey DC2000 worm gear winch). The Pierce is about $700 but is hard to mount (4 holes horizontal on front and back). Since you usually only need to move your truck about 10 feet to get unstuck, electrics can do alright for most of us. The sheepherders jack is a useful tool, but most late model sport utility vehicles can't be jacked up on their stock bumpers. I would say that the Milemarker and Tabor are the best for your price range.
Edit: Synthetic winch ropes require different fairleads than for the common wire cable. I have never seen a synthetic cable on a commerical wrecker, so it must not be as cut resistant as the good old stuff.

RS

I was recently told that loggers using kevlar spectra chokers get four times the life of cable. Cant back that up but thats what I was told by the supplier.

Posted: 2/29/2008 8:07:49 PM EDT

[#44]

Sorry, I may be wrong but it looks like another pavement hero rig to me.

You're really wrong

I almost missed your insults in the mis-quote of my posting - sorry or I would have responded earlier. I'm really secure in my manhood so please don't judge me by the size of my tires or the lift on my truck.

I've still got a few years of payment left on the 17-month old thing and it's going on the Bradshaw trail (all +100 miles off road) for the second time next month, Mohave road - done, Rattle Snake Canyon - done, Last Chance Canyon - done, Goler Wash - done, Holcomb Creek - done, John Bull Trail - done, Palen Pass - done, Johnson Canyon, Joshua Tree, Berdoo Canyon - done, Cerro Gordo - done, Lower/Upper Coyote Canyons - done and done, Dishpan Springs - done, Sherman Pass - done, +25 water crossings - done.

Several of these trails are black diamond where body damage is likely. My secret: I just don't drive like a 16-year old with his father's truck! If you were to look at my old tires you'd see lots of blood from the rocks of Big Bear out to the Arizona border. I managed to get almost 14 off road trips done with them before having to drop another $1250 on new tires for this year. I bought the truck in silver as the brush scratches don't show much and the rubbing compound and porter cable random orbital buffer do wonders - as does the rattle can paint job on the skids and sliders. The rims are pretty well chewed up - lots of scratches and chips. I'm likely to stealth these soon with a bed-liner paint job. At the camp site the guys with the black trucks wonder if those with silver ones came though the same grease wood they did.

I've spent over a month dry tent camping in the 17-months I've owned it. Hard to get out much with my social director keeping me busy. These photos below are from last week. I used up a can of black paint after this trip! One of the ladies swears she's got a picture of me with both wheels in the air climbing out of Last Chance Canyon but she hasn't given it up yet. There's a nice 20-30 degree climb on loose granite with a nice 6-12" crack about 3/4's of the way up. You have to hit that thing at speed ...

The more stock trucks need a bit of "help" and the tow straps were out most of the day and night. One guy didn't make it:

We don't rock crawl but we don't let a bit of skid/slider action get in our way either. Most of the guys/gals sleep in the their trucks but lots of us tent camp. We eat, drink, and have a great time well beyond the sight of a mall and cell phone service. Death Valley is a walk in the park compaired to some of our locations. There are lots of guys with dents in their trucks but it's hard to get a rust bucket look going. That +80 year old car above is rusting but it hasn't seen shade since we had 46 states - it's really hard to get your truck looking like shit if you can't get any rust going. Really hard. The worse damage this trip was a dented front fender as a rock slipped out from a guy and his truck ate canyon side.

Here's a nice one showing where my rear sway bar use to be ... must have lost it in the Wal-Mart lot huh?

Yupp, that steel sway bar mount must have just fell off because they didn't tighten the bolt ... wait there's one left behind!

I ain't gonna show the body crack pictures (yet).

As a retired Navy Master Chief Electrician's mate would you like to discuss power and current with me?

The advantage of a larger winch is plain for anyone who's ever been outside of the sight of pavement. A larger more powerful motor draws LESS current when it's loaded at the same level as a smaller less powerful motor. Pulling my truck straight up will run me about 190 amps - my alternator as you know puts out 180 amps (first layer) - that leaves 10 amps required from my Optima yellow top so I can do this for about a long long time. But then per the recommendations of every electric winch manufacture you should use the winch for intermittent use only. This thing as a monitor which will flash the wired remote when the winch gets too hot. It also has a low-voltage/low system charge warning. No such warnings on the wireless. There's an optional remote which will actually display an estimate on the load being pulled - cool.

The same model line winch but at 9500 pounds is drawing an additional 25 amps under the exact same conditions as the 12000 pound one and get's worse as it's loaded up higher. Bigger is better.

Tugging a couple of loaded Xterras vertically is going to be difficult and will require over 375 amps worth of power. Better empty them before lifting - or use a snatch block and drop the power down to 230 amps. The big problem as I see it is how to tie my truck down so that it gets enough traction to pull 12,000 worth of load. Figure the recovery points on the rear bumper would work.

I am installing a pair of AGM spare batteries, a solenoid, and 20 feet worth of 2 AWG THHN cable (page 69 of your Ugly's - 190 amps without adjustment factors) but only half-way because of the winch. Mainly for the communications gear. The batteries will be on a detachable tray which can be dropped down for RACEs work leaving the truck to drive off remotely.

The science on narrow tires with lots of thread is less about holes and more about ground pressure.

Apology accepted.

Posted: 2/29/2008 9:19:59 PM EDT

[#45]

LOL, I told you about the soap and water.

Here's a pic of the SpeedSubmarine from the June SF TN Camp. This truck was two months old.

His quote was hilarious, "I was doing fine till the wheels didn't touch bottom."

Same truck earlier was pulled out of a mudhole by a new Powerwagon with 12K winch.

Its true people who do offroading as a sport tend to lean to older more abused vehicles but those who only do it time to time don't necessarily fit the mold. Most of the people who attend the SF OHVs have very nice vehicles some very nicely equipped for offroad. There's just a difference between doing it as a sport or recreation and as a survival tool where you have it just in case but want to know the limits before that just in case.

Tj

Posted: 2/29/2008 9:42:11 PM EDT

[#46]

Somebody has a better pic of this, probably Ops. It was in a huge mudhole but was just about out in this pic.

Posted: 2/29/2008 9:45:26 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Sorry, I may be wrong but it looks like another pavement hero rig to me.

You're really wrong

I almost missed your insults in the mis-quote of my posting - sorry or I would have responded earlier. I'm really secure in my manhood so please don't judge me by the size of my tires or the lift on my truck.

I've still got a few years of payment left on the 17-month old thing and it's going on the Bradshaw trail (all +100 miles off road) for the second time next month, Mohave road - done, Rattle Snake Canyon - done, Last Chance Canyon - done, Goler Wash - done, Holcomb Creek - done, John Bull Trail - done, Palen Pass - done, Johnson Canyon, Joshua Tree, Berdoo Canyon - done, Cerro Gordo - done, Lower/Upper Coyote Canyons - done and done, Dishpan Springs - done, Sherman Pass - done, +25 water crossings - done.

Several of these trails are black diamond where body damage is likely. My secret: I just don't drive like a 16-year old with his father's truck! If you were to look at my old tires you'd see lots of blood from the rocks of Big Bear out to the Arizona border. I managed to get almost 14 off road trips done with them before having to drop another $1250 on new tires for this year. I bought the truck in silver as the brush scratches don't show much and the rubbing compound and porter cable random orbital buffer do wonders - as does the rattle can paint job on the skids and sliders. The rims are pretty well chewed up - lots of scratches and chips. I'm likely to stealth these soon with a bed-liner paint job. At the camp site the guys with the black trucks wonder if those with silver ones came though the same grease wood they did.

I've spent over a month dry tent camping in the 17-months I've owned it. Hard to get out much with my social director keeping me busy. These photos below are from last week. I used up a can of black paint after this trip! One of the ladies swears she's got a picture of me with both wheels in the air climbing out of Last Chance Canyon but she hasn't given it up yet. There's a nice 20-30 degree climb on loose granite with a nice 6-12" crack about 3/4's of the way up. You have to hit that thing at speed ...

i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/paul1960/Xterra/Last%20Chance%20Canyon%202-2008/misbolasestnenlasrocas.jpg

i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/paul1960/Xterra/Last%20Chance%20Canyon%202-2008/jardndelarocadelamuerte.jpg

i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/paul1960/Xterra/Last%20Chance%20Canyon%202-2008/Granpareddelamuerte.jpg

i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/paul1960/Xterra/Last%20Chance%20Canyon%202-2008/eljugarconlasrocas.jpg

i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/paul1960/Xterra/Last%20Chance%20Canyon%202-2008/carrosmuygrandes.jpg

The more stock trucks need a bit of "help" and the tow straps were out most of the day and night. One guy didn't make it:

i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/paul1960/Xterra/Last%20Chance%20Canyon%202-2008/Viejocoche.jpg

We don't rock crawl but we don't let a bit of skid/slider action get in our way either. Most of the guys/gals sleep in the their trucks but lots of us tent camp. We eat, drink, and have a great time well beyond the sight of a mall and cell phone service. Death Valley is a walk in the park compaired to some of our locations. There are lots of guys with dents in their trucks but it's hard to get a rust bucket look going. That +80 year old car above is rusting but it hasn't seen shade since we had 46 states - it's really hard to get your truck looking like shit if you can't get any rust going. Really hard. The worse damage this trip was a dented front fender as a rock slipped out from a guy and his truck ate canyon side.

Here's a nice one showing where my rear sway bar use to be ... must have lost it in the Wal-Mart lot huh?

i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/paul1960/Xterra/Aux%20Power%20Project/SpareTireArea.jpg

Yupp, that steel sway bar mount must have just fell off because they didn't tighten the bolt ... wait there's one left behind!

i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/paul1960/Xterra/Broken%20Swap%20Bar%20Mount/MissingMount.jpg

I ain't gonna show the body crack pictures (yet).

As a retired Navy Master Chief Electrician's mate would you like to discuss power and current with me?

The advantage of a larger winch is plain for anyone who's ever been outside of the sight of pavement. A larger more powerful motor draws LESS current when it's loaded at the same level as a smaller less powerful motor. Pulling my truck straight up will run me about 190 amps - my alternator as you know puts out 180 amps (first layer) - that leaves 10 amps required from my Optima yellow top so I can do this for about a long long time. But then per the recommendations of every electric winch manufacture you should use the winch for intermittent use only. This thing as a monitor which will flash the wired remote when the winch gets too hot. It also has a low-voltage/low system charge warning. No such warnings on the wireless. There's an optional remote which will actually display an estimate on the load being pulled - cool.

The same model line winch but at 9500 pounds is drawing an additional 25 amps under the exact same conditions as the 12000 pound one and get's worse as it's loaded up higher. Bigger is better.

Tugging a couple of loaded Xterras vertically is going to be difficult and will require over 375 amps worth of power. Better empty them before lifting - or use a snatch block and drop the power down to 230 amps. The big problem as I see it is how to tie my truck down so that it gets enough traction to pull 12,000 worth of load. Figure the recovery points on the rear bumper would work.

I am installing a pair of AGM spare batteries, a solenoid, and 20 feet worth of 2 AWG THHN cable (page 69 of your Ugly's - 190 amps without adjustment factors) but only half-way because of the winch. Mainly for the communications gear. The batteries will be on a detachable tray which can be dropped down for RACEs work leaving the truck to drive off remotely.

The science on narrow tires with lots of thread is less about holes and more about ground pressure.

Apology accepted.

A Navy chief, no more needs to be said.
No insult intended. The OP clearly wants the "look" of a real off road rig without ever going off road. Thats 98% of the 4X4s on the road. First you post street tires then nerf bars that will be promptly torn off in a real off road situation. It's easy to assume that you were part of the 98%. No insult intended.

Posted: 2/29/2008 9:59:55 PM EDT

[#48]

I have 2 one mounted to the front of each vehicle I have a Warn 16.5K on the front on my Dodge Crew Cab and a Mile Marker 12K on my Jeep. A buddy has a Ramsey 15K on his Dodge as well. I have seen the multi mount in action & it is a good option if you equip for it (front/side mounting) I am still considering putting another Mile Marker 12K on the rear of my Dodge its got 9" of lift & 37's so it will go almost any ware it can fit if not my jeep has 5.5" lift & 33's

The General rule is 1.5 times the weight of the truck I like double as mud can add a lot of resistance Dual batts are highly recommended along with a good Hi output Alt.

The Hydraulic Vs. Electric is like 9mm Vs. .45 and they both have there merits Mile Marker can be had at a decent price if you know anyone in the drive line business as most of them are Mm dealers. I have a buddy that giver me good prices which is why I have them I went with the Warn for the pull with the heavy truck. Using the proper gear makes the world of difference (snack blocks,tree savers,) remember mechanical advantage give up distance for power,.

Posted: 2/29/2008 10:37:47 PM EDT

[#49]

I want to go camping with Paul, all I got to say!

Posted: 3/1/2008 4:07:01 AM EDT

[#50]

Paul

Interesting on the high output alternators. What does that alternator sound like when loaded down and does yours have the small sheave? The 4 hp load on that belt must require either a good bit of tension or a lot of belt wrap to prevent slip.

General winch stuff I have learned:

The most powerful DC 12 volt wound field winch motors are in the 5.5 to 6 horsepower range. Using these on a planetary gear set makes for a powerful and compact winch. Most vehicle front mount recovery winches use this design. My Bronco mounted winch uses a 1 hp Dc permanent magnet motor which is more or less a fossil these days. The 470 to 1 worm gear ratio makes up for the low motor power, but takes it forever to wind in any amount of cable. Our squad has a Warn 12000 on the F450 that has worked very well the times I have used it. We also have a Warn 8274 9000 lb winch on a Chevy pickup. The unloaded line speeds on these units is much faster than my Pierce 9K (about 30 to 60 fpm vs 11 fpm). One needs to be careful about handling cable when rewinding. Use gloves and be aware of the pinch factor when the last bit of cable is pulled in. One oops could maim you for life. I have made pulls to the rear of the Bronco by running the cable under the truck and out the back. A roller fairlead is necessary but it is possible to crimp the cable on the side of the lower roller since the vertical rollers are out of the cable path. Duh! Needless to say, I need another length of cable now. Snatch blocks are good to have. They can double your pulling power or let you pull in different directions. I had two Northern Tools $20.00 4 ton blocks that I used for controlling the fall of trees around my driveway. When trying to pull a full size auto (no tires) on to my trailer, I managed to break one of them (side plate pulled away). Replaced it with a Milemarker 20 ton at 4 times the price, but a much better product. Always keep a nylon strap to protect trees when using them for an anchor.

2 cents worth.
RS

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - School me on winches (Page 1 of 2)

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