User Panel
Posted: 4/9/2002 6:07:26 PM EDT
I was at my local dealer the other day and asked if he would order a colt AR for me.
His reply;No he doesn't do business with Colt anymore since they sold out to a middle eastern company.Does anyone no if this is so.Please tell me it isn't. |
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It depends on how you as an individual view the rest of the world. If you think that everyone with a Chinese last name is from China or someone with a German last name is German the answer is yes. Otherwise if my knowledge is correct the answer is no. Colt was purchased in the spring of 1994 by a company called "Zilkha & Co.". They made most of their money as bankers in the late 19th century in the Near East. From there they expanded to Europe and the United States. Donald Zilkha the president and founder of Zilkha & Co. and I believe his father Ezra, were born in the United States and that companies headquarters are located in New York. They took over Colt during its latest bankruptcy and I guess kind of saved it from disappearing. So to answer your question I would have to say that Colt is an American owned company. Hope my information is correct and helpful in some way. |
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I think what he means is colt sell out on RKBA issues and kissing the govt's ass.
plenty more where these came from. www.psr.org/coltguns.html www.geocities.com/juniorhunters/boycott.html www.thedoghouse.net/gunlinks.html www.webleyweb.com/tle/libe42-19980727-01.html www.webleyweb.com/tle/libe39-19980626-07.html members.tripod.com/~rugerfan/ |
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COLTFAN345 answered my quesrion,but i found SPECTRE's answer to give me more reason not to buy COLT.I have and know a lot of people who have always supported colt but i think with this info i will pass on to them that they will probably not buy colt's products anymore.
Thanks again for the info. |
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Granted, Colt's current practices are questionable as are other companies, including some gun manufactures.
Bushmaster, makes as good a product and has not yet sold out. But if you decide on a pre-ban. Go Colt. They are a thing of beauty. |
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Yes, Colt has certainly made some missteps in the past and had people running it that probably never should have had a place in the firearms industry. You need to keep in mind how old most of those websites are. The people discussed are no longer with Colt. LTGEN William M. Keys, USMC (retired), seems to be doing a pretty good job as President and CEO of Colt.
It should also be taken under consideration that as that as the oldest and most publicly visible of AR manufacturers, Colt has felt considerably more political and social heat/pressure. Truth be told, probably moreso than all the other producers of ARs combined. What other AR manufacturer has been named in lawsuits or had their products banned by name? And some people are so rabidly anti-Colt that they are unable to view Colt's discontinuation of an unprofitable portion of their handgun line for what it is, a sound business decsion. No, they'd rather huff, whine, and scream about some "sell-out" or other conspiracy nonsense. First they don't buy the products, then they complain and press false accusations when Colt stops offering them. How can Colt possibly placate these people? Lastly, Colt has put more ARs into the hands of civilians than any other manufacturer. That number may even still be more than all of the off-brands combined. And yet despite the continual ignorant accuastions of being sellouts, they continue to sell us ARs. So, like most tinfoil hat generated conspiracy theories, the facts just don't add up properly. |
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You're joking right. With all the Colt bashing you do, you really want to buy a Colt. Go figure. Spectre= |
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And some people are so rabidly anti-Colt that they are unable to view Colt's discontinuation of an unprofitable portion of their handgun line for what it is, a sound business decsion. No, they'd rather huff, whine, and scream about some "sell-out" or other conspiracy nonsense. First they don't buy the products, then they complain and press false accusations when Colt stops offering them. How can Colt possibly placate these people?
Read this and maybe it'll shed some light on why the handgun division was so UN-profitable. I resemble that remark, EXCEPT as an NRA Instructor I did purchase 2 of the Colt SF-VI, Mod. 1020, 38+P approved pistols through the NRA Instructor program. What I received were 2 consistent 4-shooters, one problem though, they were suppsoed to be 6-shooters. While one was repair on it's first trip back to the factory, the other required 2 more trips and was replaced with another SF-VI which came complete with scratches and vice marks from being previously repaired and pawned off on me because I raised a stink about their inability to field or repair brand new handguns. One of the principal selling features of these stainless snubbies was their lite triggers (out of the box), so lite infact that double action functioning resulted in 33% failure to fire. I love my old Colts, the new ones you can have. Don't think this makes me rabid anti-Colt, just makes me stick to older ones. My 2cents, Mike Please note these were pistols and this occured in 1996. |
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S&W, now Colt? What's happening around here? The country was BORN with these names! My .02. |
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YES, I believe that Colt has sold out from day one... All of there little differences. Sear blocks, large hole pivot pins. From the get their reasoning was to prevent the owner from making the rifle full auto. As I have read in Many different AR15/M16 source books. Why is that? To me it sounds like they feel that any of us that own an AR have criminal minds and that they need to protect us from ourselves. But Bushmaster DPMS and many of the rest have extra material to prevent a drop in sear from fitting in them. The question who is the biggest sell out. COLT has my vote.
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What this should be titled is "Did Colt Sell Out Yet Again!!!???"
Of course the sold out, OVER, AND OVER, AND OVER, AND OVER! Colt sold out in every definition that a gun owner in America could use. They sold out to the government, they sold out against the consumer, they sold the company to some bung-hole foreigner (Iraqi descent; Donald Zhilka). They do not even know what they are doing. Their guns displayed at the SHOT show showed all different variants. Some had action blocks, some did not, some had standard GI (i.e. MIL-Spec) hammer and trigger pins, some did not. Some had standard sized front pivot pins, some did not. Most all had accu-wedges in the from the factory cause they are so stinking sloppy loose that they rattle with every step. When I asked those who worked for Colt which was the current production method of manufacture, no one had a clue!! AND, when I asked if Donald Zhilka was going to be there, they did not even know who he was! UNBELIEVABLE!! Did Colt sell out....Get a clue! |
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Anyone else find it a little ironic that two of the loudest members of the "Colt sold out" crowd are still willing to buy Colt products "for the right price"?
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmm..... Sounds like selling out to me. You can be bought. So for what else are you willing to sacrifice your supposed integrity? |
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Point being, an AR is an AR is an AR. I would buy any AR for the right price however Colt being the least on my list. I have found that most of the people that are hell bent on any one brand are mostly all talk. I have owned well over 14 different AR's since 1986. Colt, DPMS, Essential Arms, Olympic Arms, Bushmaster, Rock River etc. I have even shot a Hesse that worked good. Now you tell me that it makes that big of a difference when it comes down to reality. I shoot to shoot and I could give a rats ass if there is a little friggin pony on the side of my lower receiver as long as it hits the target. If Colt is your thing fine, pay the extra $200 or more for it just don't buffalo new people that Colt is the only AR out there it just shows ignorance. I'll put my DPMS, Bushmaster up against a Colt any day. The shooter makes the gun, the gun does not make the shooter. |
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*sound of crickets chirping* |
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Hey SPECTRE, When you buy that Colt Carbine, don't forget to tell them ......"estoner sent you" |
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No, the point is that you have personal problems with Colt's politics, yet you would still own their products "for the right price". That means you are willing to compromise your ideals for a few bucks. Selling out, so to speak.
I've found a brand that works for me. And has over and over again. Sharing those experiences is not simply "all talk". No one else has the extensive history or depth or knowledge about ARs that Colt has gained through 4 decades of evolving the system. I've never once said that no one but Colt can build a decent AR. What I have said is that the off brands tend to have difficulty doing it as consistently as Colt does. Criminy, just look though the other manufacturer's forums if you need confirmation of that. The problems reported here simply bear out what I have observed in real life. Lastly, if you are truly such a piss-poor shopper that you are only able to find Colts that cost an additional $200, I'd find it difficult to lend much credibility to anything else you have to say on the subject as you are obviouslyly not very well informed. |
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I see our resident troll is fast asleep. |
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Ok, lets just have a credibility check here. real simple (re. estoner) and no speaches, mantras, excuses, etc..... One simple question to test the credibility of the person answering. Whatever the reason you buy colt rifles or parts does'nt matter.
1- Based on colts use of non standard parts and their willingness to change their rifles features without a mandate from the government, The question is... Did colt sell out ? Answer either "YES" or "NO" only My answer, "YES" |
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DAMN !!! I almost forgot !! estoner, I would be glad to tell them you sent me. Just put your email addy and where you really are on your profile. or, are you trying to hide something...... AND BTW !!! still waiting (after dozens of requests) for your well thought out and informed opinion on the colt sell out issue. and try not to plagiarize other members or sources. |
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NO. They are free to protect themselves from political and legal actions as they see fit. Same with the firing pin block on their Series 80 M1911s. While some people view at as unnecessary, Colt saw a need to cover their ass. |
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I have no opinion on Colt's "sell out issues" or politics. I have not expressed any words on the subject, nor have I plagiarized other's words related to Colt's politics. It is completely irrelevant to me and I have no intention in engaging in such a discussion with the likes of you. I am however keenly interested in matters of performance, quality, and functionality. In these categories Colt is the best. That my boy is a matter of fact. If you doubt this just look at the Industry Forums. Better yet take a look at "the other brand's" warranty records. Since you are so obsessed with politics, write your congressman; otherwise, buy that Colt Carbine and go to the range...and tell them "estoner sent you" |
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"tell them estoner sent you"
Quoted: estoner, I would be glad to tell them you sent me. Just put your email addy and where you really are on your profile. or, are you trying to hide something...... well............ |
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SPECTRE, Why are you so fixated on my e-mail address. Do you want to send me something? Are you the one spreading that Klez Virus. |
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Usually people put their email address and where they are from just as general information. And usually those that don't are trying to hide something. Most often, the reason is because those people are here just to cause trouble and stir the shit for as long as the mods allow, just like yourself. Some do it due to their tinfoil hat being on too tight, but thats not you because colt does'nt make tinfoil hats. From what I have read of your posts, you are fixated on your one and only brand of AR and troll the forums putting down those that don't share your opinion. Why else would you spend so much time defending your beloved pony ? Why do you spend so much time in the bushmaster forum causing trouble if you don't even own one ? You said you owned one in the past, but when you go trolling in the specific forum, you don't offer any positive advice, rather, you insult and put down the owners. If there was a specific blueprint for a AR15.com troll, you would fit right in. If I wanted to send you something, I would use the IM like I did before, remember ??? |
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Well i ended up with a Bushmaster and a DPMS both seem to have a better fit then any of the Colts i have had.I will be going to Knob Creek to see how they perform tomarrow.
Wayne |
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Fu#k you? Is that really the best you could come up with? Talk about third grade level. Your total inability to refute even one point I made speaks volumes of your own knowledge on the subject. I 'spose we really shouldn't have expected any more from someone who's depth of wit, creativity, imagination, and desire to be taken seriously allows them to come up a handle as ingenious as "Bill Clinton". Obviuous troll. Goodbye. |
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If you look hard at ALL the Manufacturers you will conclude that they all have sold out.
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It seems Colt is more involved in the gun market than they were 4 or more years ago. They have more products available with less time waiting for them, generally. My last AR, bought over 2 years ago, was not too bad when I got it, but could have been a lot better. It had some scratches here and there and a few machine marks and burrs you would think wouldnt be there on a new rifle made in peacetime for the non military market (LE R6721) and needed a few little things adjusted by me on it. I got it all set up real nice though and just recently sold it to another Officer and am eagerly awaiting the arrival of a different model AR (LE6920). I am hoping quality will be a little better on it than the last one, but I will find out soon. I only have the option of Colt AR's on my Department by the way.
I would both love and hate to be a firearm manufacturer that makes products for both the civilian and government markets. I would love to build guns as my occupation and cover the whole marketplace. But I would truly hate to deal with the powerful anti-gun forces out there, including those in our elected Government who also put the John Hancock on Government funding of purchases from domestic arms manufacturers. They love to include little stipulations that help stifle the civilian sales in exchange for Government orders. In other words, blackmail. To remain in business at all I would think you have to play ball to some extent or disappear into bankruptcy or shrink to a non competitive small business with less quality and products. Not to mention the HUGE forces put against weapon companies by all the self righteous antis who love to sue and do other communist tactics to destroy our 2nd Amendment rights. If Colt truly had sold out, they wouldn't sell an AR to the general public at all and would have signed the Communist Manifesto like S&W did. We can be thankful they didn't or there would be no more Colt AR's at all. |
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