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Posted: 10/15/2004 6:45:40 PM EST
Wholesale hunter just cancelled my order for three of their ar15 30rd mags saying VA had a law banning mage higher than 20rds. Have any of you ever heard this?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:52:38 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 5:22:51 PM EST
the only thing that i am aware of is a local gunshop told me that a law was passed shortly after 911. It stated that you could own any size mag. However if you left your house or place of abode with a mag over 20 rounds with the weapon then supposidly it is a weapon of mass destruction. However i have been unsuccessful in confirming this supposed law
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 5:25:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 6:24:08 PM EST
+1 to Quantico Arms...

That is how i read it too..

FMO
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 8:39:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By QuanticoArms:
The VA definition of an "Assault Weapon" is any weapon with a magazine greater than twenty rounds (I think it is 20, might be 30) WHEN USED IN A CRIME. In other words, if you have a weapon, ANY WEAPON, with a "magazine over XX (I think 20) rounds, and USE IT IN A CRIME, it then becomes an "assault weapon". The instant before the crime it was not an assault weapon.

I think this law confuses alot of people.



Technically, VA law uses the term "assault firearm", and the definition can change from law to law. From what I've seen, the definition sometimes includes shotguns (equipped with a folding stock), and sometimes doesn't.

From § 18.2-308.2:01:
...For purposes of this section, "assault firearm" means any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.

And to compare, from § 18.2-308.7:
For the purposes of this section, [...] "assault firearm" means any (i) semi-automatic centerfire rifle or pistol which expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (ii) shotgun with a magazine which will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered.

Note that in VA, it is illegal to carry an "assault firearm" in cities of a population of 160,000 or more, counties with an urban county executive form of government, or counties surrounded by, adjacent to...blah blah. (ref § 18.2-287.4) Interestingly, this section of code uses the term "firearm", though the definition of "firearm" in the section is the exact same as "assault firearm" from § 18.2-308.7.

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 10:26:13 AM EST
Thanks for the support. I recieved the following email from theor customer service dept.

From: Customer Support <support@wholesalehunter.com> [Add to Address Book] [View Source]
To: ghallii@comcast.net
Subject: Re: cancelled order
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:29:38 +0000


We received this information from Taurus.

Thank you!

At 04:12 AM 10/16/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>After listening to your message on my answering machine, I am a bit
>worried. I have gone to the VA state police web site as well as the
>NRA-ILA web site and have found NO restriction on magazine capicity here
>in VA. In fact the major gun stor is Green Top and as of 5 days ago they
>had over 200 of the British 30rd mags for sale.
>
>Please let me know were you recieved this information on VA banning mags
>holding more than 20rnds.
>


Link Posted: 10/18/2004 4:45:05 PM EST
thanks squib and QuaticoArms for clearing that up for me. Like i said before i had looked but could not find it.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 1:08:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2004 1:11:16 PM EST by ghall]
here is the email i got today

According to the Virginia State Police (804-633-6799) the maximum capacity is 10 rounds.

Thank you!

Now I call the number and a trooper Davis said it was a federal law. Advised Trooper Davis that that law expired last month.

He then went to look in the Va code books . Another Trooper came on the phone and told me that it was a federal law and I should contact their firearms center. Boy this is just down right funny. The people who want to obey the law know more than those who enforce the law.(no insult to LEO I have all the respect for them in the world) I just think that such a hot topic that was even on the news and they missed it.

Guess I just will not do busisness with whole sale hunter. Heck they had a great deal and seem to be a really customer oriented company this is just sad.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:12:16 PM EST
I would encourage you to pursue this, and I am more than happy to help out where I can. My instinct is to give Wholesale Hunter (though I have never dealt with them) the benefit of the doubt, especially if they are getting incorrect info from the VSP. This is a situation that needs to be cleared up, because incorrect information being spread from a generally trusted source is not a Good Thing.

The easiest thing to do may be to get VSP to admit there is NO STATE LAW that restricts magazine capacity. At that point, Wholesale Hunter should be satisfied.

Of course, the ideal situation would be the above, THEN notify your contacts at VSP with the language directly from the BATF web site regarding expiration of the "AWB".

Hope this helps, good luck, and let me know if I can help.


Originally Posted By ghall:
here is the email i got today

According to the Virginia State Police (804-633-6799) the maximum capacity is 10 rounds.

Thank you!

Now I call the number and a trooper Davis said it was a federal law. Advised Trooper Davis that that law expired last month.

He then went to look in the Va code books . Another Trooper came on the phone and told me that it was a federal law and I should contact their firearms center. Boy this is just down right funny. The people who want to obey the law know more than those who enforce the law.(no insult to LEO I have all the respect for them in the world) I just think that such a hot topic that was even on the news and they missed it.

Guess I just will not do busisness with whole sale hunter. Heck they had a great deal and seem to be a really customer oriented company this is just sad.

Link Posted: 10/20/2004 9:37:21 AM EST
thanks squib, i called vsp today and got the run around again. They really did not want to help me because I was not a dealer. Oh well I will keep trying.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 10:58:35 AM EST
There used to be a LT Kemmler (something similar) at VSP that handled all of my firearm-related questions. Robert Kemmler, I believe was his name. I'm not sure if that will help out or not.

If you want to try e-mailing them, the address (from the web site) is firearms@vsp.state.va.us

Frustrating, as it's always harder to prove a law doesn't exist than to show that one does.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 11:08:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By ghall:
Wholesale hunter just cancelled my order for three of their ar15 30rd mags saying VA had a law banning mage higher than 20rds. Have any of you ever heard this?



Consider yourself lucky... there is a thread going around that has posted negative feedback regarding these mags.... people are sending them back and getting refunds because the mags won't load a full 30rds... and the bullets noses, when placed in the mags, tilt downward. Furthermore, some have stated that these mags are so out of spec, that they have dented their bullets with their LULA loader trying to force them into the mags.

I can't find the thread, but bookhound has posted about this on the thread.... he can direct you to it.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 1:58:10 PM EST
well here is the third limit that wole sale hunter has been told is the legal limit in VA.

First it was 20 rds
Then 10 rds
now 15 rnds

Sorry, can't ship in excess of 20 rounds to MD. Here is a list we can't ship to in excess of -

California - 10
Hawaii - 10
Maryland - 20
Massachusetts - We cannot ship handguns or magazines to
New Jersey - 15
New York - 10
Virginia - 15
Cincinnati, Ohio - 15
Cleveland, Ohio - 20
Columbus, Ohio - 20
Toledo, Ohio - 10
Aurora, Illinois - 15
Chicago, Illinois - 12
South Bend, Indiana - 15
Wichita, Kansas - 20

............by the way............Thanks Bookhound!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.wholesalehunter.com/AR15
888-900-4868
I really wish there was some way to get the correct info to him.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 10:56:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 10:57:10 AM EST by Griz]
I gave the VCDL a heads up on this mess with Wholesale Hunter, and Philip Van Cleave (the President of the VCDL) sent me this reply:


I called Wholesale Hunter and gave them the number of Donna Tate with the State Police - she will set them straight. Wholesale said they are investigating this right now.


If you're a VA resident and a firearms enthusiast you owe it to yourself to join the VCDL. They are one of the finest gun rights organizations in the country.

www.vcdl.org/
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 10:07:13 AM EST
Sent pay pal for membership yesterday!
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 10:06:53 AM EST
HE GOT THE INFO!!!!!!!!


In case any of you haven't seen it yet, there is a discussion open in another thread about sending back defective mags:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=17&t=205872

Also... after researching extensively, we found proof we can ship to Virginia!

So, yes, we will ship to VA now.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.wholesalehunter.com/AR15
888-900-4868
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 11:25:00 AM EST
So what exactly caused the initial panic? I don't understand where this would have even come from.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 1:06:53 PM EST
He got the info from Taueus and then called some VA state police sub station and got mixed info.
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