User Panel
Posted: 3/4/2005 1:08:28 PM EDT
is it legal to keep a rifle and ammo in my truck? do they have to be locked in seperate containers? any info on keeping guns in your car will help. thanks
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From a legal standpoint, the guns must always be in fully enclosed, locked containers, with the ammunition kept in a separate container, while transporting.
There's also the clause that states that the only way you're allowed to have guns in the trunk of your car is transport to and from the range, or if your workplace allows you to carry (like you work as a security puke), to and from your workplace. That's it. |
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i thought the enclosed and locked part was only for handguns and AW
rifles/shotguns only need to be unloaded from what I remember. Ive never heard of the trunk thing, only that the trunk can be considered a locked and seperate container. |
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what about loaded mags? i've read the laws and it doesn't say specifically, but i've heard people say loaded mags are considered loaded weopon. anyone know the skinny on this? anyone been prosecuted for it? i couldn't imagine showing up at the range and have to spend the next 45 minutes loading mags, but if the alternative could land me in jail i'll guess i'll start.
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From hat I remember, the lw goes something like this:
- Handguns and AWs must be in fully enclosed and locked containers. - Ammunition must be kept seperate from all firearms. - If the firearm takes a feeding device or can be loaded rapidly via some mechanism (a la revolvers), having said feeding device loaded is the same as the firearm being loaded. Basically, if it's a rifle, just keep the ammo in the ammo box and you should be ok. If it's a handgun or AW, lock it up and keep the ammo in its box. |
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Incorrect. AW and handguns most be in a locked case. Rifles and shotguns do not.
I have never been able to find anything about loaded magazines. But, everytime I show up to the range I have some selfperclamed gun law expert tell me it is illegal. What ever. |
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Correct. And the to & from range thing for simple long arms is incorrect too. Nothing in cali state law prohibits you from throwing a rifle or shotgun in your trucnk allog with a can of ammo while you go about your day. Anyone that thinks it's illegal, please cite the applicable section of the California Penal code. |
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there is case law that says a loaded mag, in the weapon with an empty chamber is "loaded." There is also case law that says a side saddle or butt stock shell carrier, containing live rounds, is NOT loaded if there are no shells in the mag tube or chamber. |
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I know that when I'm hunting I can have "one in the pipe" in a vehicle on private property. On public land only in the mag. I dont know about in the city.
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Can anyone explain what this means [ the exclusions in 12027]
12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following: (1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person. (2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person. (3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person. (b) Carrying a concealed firearm in violation of this section is punishable, as follows: (1) Where the person previously has been convicted of any felony, or of any crime made punishable by this chapter, as a felony. (2) Where the firearm is stolen and the person knew or had reasonable cause to believe that it was stolen, as a felony. (3) Where the person is an active participant in a criminal street gang, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 186.22, under the Street Terrorism Enforcement and Prevention Act (Chapter 11 (commencing with Section 186.20) of Title 7 of Part 1), as a felony. (4) Where the person is not in lawful possession of the firearm, as defined in this section, or the person is within a class of persons prohibited from possessing or acquiring a firearm pursuant to Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, as a felony. (5) Where the person has been convicted of a crime against a person or property, or of a narcotics or dangerous drug violation, by imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine. (6) By imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment if both of the following conditions are met: (A) Both the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person and the unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from that firearm are either in the immediate possession of the person or readily accessible to that person, or the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person is loaded as defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12031. (B) The person is not listed with the Department of Justice pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section 11106, as the registered owner of that pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person. (7) In all cases other than those specified in paragraphs (1) to (6), inclusive, by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine. (c) A peace officer may arrest a person for a violation of paragraph (6) of subdivision (b) if the peace officer has probable cause to believe that the person is not listed with the Department of Justice pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section 11106 as the registered owner of the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, and one or more of the conditions in subparagraph (A) of paragraph (6) of subdivision (b) is met. (d) (1) Every person convicted under this section who previously has been convicted of a misdemeanor offense enumerated in Section 12001.6 shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for at least three months and not exceeding six months, or, if granted probation, or if the execution or imposition of sentence is suspended, it shall be a condition thereof that he or she be imprisoned in a county jail for at least three months. (2) Every person convicted under this section who has previously been convicted of any felony, or of any crime made punishable by this chapter, if probation is granted, or if the execution or imposition of sentence is suspended, it shall be a condition thereof that he or she be imprisoned in a county jail for not less than three months. (e) The court shall apply the three-month minimum sentence as specified in subdivision (d), except in unusual cases where the interests of justice would best be served by granting probation or suspending the imposition or execution of sentence without the minimum imprisonment required in subdivision (d) or by granting probation or suspending the imposition or execution of sentence with conditions other than those set forth in subdivision (d), in which case, the court shall specify on the record and shall enter on the minutes the circumstances indicating that the interests of justice would best be served by that disposition. (f) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section. (g) For purposes of this section, "lawful possession of the firearm" means that the person who has possession or custody of the firearm either lawfully owns the firearm or has the permission of the lawful owner or a person who otherwise has apparent authority to possess or have custody of the firearm. A person who takes a firearm without the permission of the lawful owner or without the permission of a person who has lawful custody of the firearm does not have lawful possession of the firearm. (h) (1) The district attorney of each county shall submit annually a report on or before June 30, to the Attorney General consisting of profiles by race, age, gender, and ethnicity of any person charged with a felony or a misdemeanor under this section and any other offense charged in the same complaint, indictment, or information. (2) The Attorney General shall submit annually, a report on or before December 31, to the Legislature compiling all of the reports submitted pursuant to paragraph (1). (3) This subdivision shall remain operative until January 1, 2005, and as of that date shall be repealed. 12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following: (a) (1) (A) Any peace officer, listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, or subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, whether active or honorably retired, other duly appointed peace officers, honorably retired peace officers listed in subdivision (c) of Section 830.5, other honorably retired peace officers who during the course and scope of their employment as peace officers were authorized to, and did, carry firearms, full-time paid peace officers of other states and the federal government who are carrying out official duties while in California, or any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting that officer. Any peace officer described in this paragraph who has been honorably retired shall be issued an identification certificate by the law enforcement agency from which the officer has retired. The issuing agency may charge a fee necessary to cover any reasonable expenses incurred by the agency in issuing certificates pursuant to this subdivision. As used in this section and Section 12031, the term "honorably retired" includes all peace officers who have qualified for, and have accepted, a service or disability retirement. For purposes of this section and Section 12031, the term "honorably retired" does not include an officer who has agreed to a service retirement in lieu of termination. (B) Any officer, except an officer listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1, 1981, shall have an endorsement on the identification certificate stating that the issuing agency approves the officer's carrying of a concealed firearm. (C) No endorsement or renewal endorsement issued pursuant to paragraph (2) shall be effective unless it is in the format set forth in subparagraph (D), except that any peace officer listed in subdivision (f) of Section 830.2 or in subdivision (c) of Section 830.5, who is retired between January 2, 1981, and on or before December 31, 1988, and who is authorized to carry a concealed firearm pursuant to this section, shall not be required to have an endorsement in the format set forth in subparagraph (D) until the time of the issuance, on or after January 1, 1989, of a renewal endorsement pursuant to paragraph (2). (D) A certificate issued pursuant to this paragraph for persons who are not listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 or for persons retiring after January 1, 1981, shall be in the following format: it shall be on a 2X3 inch card, bear the photograph of the retiree, the retiree's name, address, date of birth, the date that the retiree retired, name and address of the agency from which the retiree retired, have stamped on it the endorsement "CCW Approved" and the date the endorsement is to be renewed. (E) For purposes of this section and Section 12031, "CCW" means "carry concealed weapons." (2) A retired peace officer, except an officer listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1, 1981, shall petition the issuing agency for the renewal of his or her privilege to carry a concealed firearm every five years. An honorably retired peace officer listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1, 1981, shall not be required to obtain an endorsement from the issuing agency to carry a concealed firearm. The agency from which a peace officer is honorably retired may, upon initial retirement of that peace officer, or at any time subsequent thereto, deny or revoke for good cause the retired officer's privilege to carry a concealed firearm. A peace officer who is listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1, 1981, shall have his or her privilege to carry a concealed firearm denied or revoked by having the agency from which the officer retired stamp on the officer's identification certificate "No CCW privilege." (3) An honorably retired peace officer who is listed in subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 and authorized to carry concealed firearms by this subdivision shall meet the training requirements of Section 832 and shall qualify with the firearm at least annually. The individual retired peace officer shall be responsible for maintaining his or her eligibility to carry a concealed firearm. The Department of Justice shall provide subsequent arrest notification pursuant to Section 11105.2 regarding honorably retired peace officers listed in subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 to the agency from which the officer has retired. (b) The possession or transportation of unloaded pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person as merchandise by a person who is engaged in the business of manufacturing, importing, wholesaling, repairing, or dealing in firearms and who is licensed to engage in that business or the authorized representative or authorized agent of that person while engaged in the lawful course of the business. (c) Members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, or Marine Corps of the United States, or the National Guard, when on duty, or organizations which are by law authorized to purchase or receive those weapons from the United States or this state. (d) The carrying of unloaded pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person by duly authorized military or civil organizations while parading, or the members thereof when going to and from the places of meeting of their respective organizations. (e) Guards or messengers of common carriers, banks, and other financial institutions while actually employed in and about the shipment, transportation, or delivery of any money, treasure, bullion, bonds, or other thing of value within this state. (f) Members of any club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets upon established target ranges, whether public or private, while the members are using pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person upon the target ranges, or transporting these firearms unloaded when going to and from the ranges. (g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.[b/] (h) Transportation of unloaded firearms by a person operating a licensed common carrier or an authorized agent or employee thereof when transported in conformance with applicable federal law. (i) Upon approval of the sheriff of the county in which they reside, honorably retired federal officers or agents of federal law enforcement agencies, including, but not limited to, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Secret Service, the United States Customs Service, the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, the Drug Enforcement Administration, the United States Border Patrol, and officers or agents of the Internal Revenue Service who were authorized to carry weapons while on duty, who were assigned to duty within the state for a period of not less than one year, or who retired from active service in the state. Retired federal officers or agents shall provide the sheriff with certification from the agency from which they retired certifying their service in the state, the nature of their retirement, and indicating the agency's concurrence that the retired federal officer or agent should be accorded the privilege of carrying a concealed firearm. Upon that approval, the sheriff shall issue a permit to the retired federal officer or agent indicating that he or she may carry a concealed firearm in accordance with this subdivision. The permit shall be valid for a period not exceeding five years, shall be carried by the retiree while carrying a concealed firearm, and may be revoked for good cause. The sheriff of the county in which the retired federal officer or agent resides may require recertification prior to a permit renewal, and may suspend the privilege for cause. The sheriff may charge a fee necessary to cover any reasonable expenses incurred by the county. (j) The carrying of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person by a person who is authorized to carry that weapon in a concealed manner pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050). |
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so i can keep an sks in a case and an ammo can with ammo on stripper clips and be legal?
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As long as it is a legally configured SKS, yes. An SKS is a not a "concealable firearm" under Cali law. |
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I think it is basically saying, you are carring concealed if you conceal carry it normally, or if you conceal it while in a vehicle, whethere you are driving or not. I THINK it's trying to say while in a vehicle, the vehicle acts as part of you, not you as part of it. So hiding a pistol under the seat is the same as hiding it in your pants. Obviously, taking it in the car, aka concealing it inside the car, would be concealed carry (unless it was locked up in a container). The lower part, I think, basically says it doesn't apply when you have a valid reason to do so, the two you highlighted being about target shooting and fishind/hunting. To me it sounds like it's trying to say that if you are at a range, or similar location, where it is established that you are shooting, then concealed carry is ok. the second sounds like if you are hunting, obviously you will have a weapon to hunt with, so if you put a pistol in your pocket while you hunt, it's no big deal (I COULD BE VERY WRONG HERE, which I probably am). |
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Come on guys, we need to be a little more careful here. Look how many different "Interpretations" of the law are contained within this post. The question is being asked so that the original poster can make a legal, responsible decision. Reading all of the answers given, he is probably more confused and unsure than he was before posting. When it comes to legal matters, we as a group should only post answers if we know, 100% the basis and facts of the answer, not on how we interpret the answer. Look how many times we read about California's "Assault Weapons" laws and how DOJ is enforcing the law slightly different than how the statue reads. They can do this, even press charges, and let the courts decide the outcome and as AR15fan says, then it becomes case law. From previous posts, it sounds like AR15fan is LEO. He is qualified to answer this question as he probably deals with these issues on a regular basis during the course of his duties. I have seen posts from other members who appear to have some legal background as well who may also be qualified to answer these questions. We are only providing a disservice to our fellow members if we answer these legal questions with our own interpretations as the Cop who arrests you, the DA who prosecutes you, the jury that listens to the facts, and the Judge who presides over the trial, are not going to give a rat's ass about you being told on an internet forum that it was OK to do what you did if it was illegal. I know that I'm putting my tail on the line here because I'm sure that I'm going to piss someone off because they will take it the wrong way or take it the right way and not like it. TOO BAD. DEAL WITH IT. It is something that I feel needs to be said. One of the advantages of a forum like this is that we get to share a passion with each other, a passion that many do not understand or agree with. We can't get everyone to agree with us but we can take care of each other by making sure that only credible information is given in something as non flexible as our gun laws. How do you think someone like AR15fan will feel if he has to arrest one of us for violating a law because we heard that it was OK to do something? He may not agree with the law, but that's not his job. He is going to enforce it because that is his job.
I now get off of my Soapbox. |
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That sounds good. So I can keep either my 12ga or sks (legally configured) in the trunk of my truck with a box or 2 of ammo. Great. |
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Quoted:
"let the courts decide the outcome" Are you shitting me!!! Your state. |
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Sorry ArsR4ME, but you read my post out of context. Note the strategically placed commas in the sentence to grasp that I am not saying that we should let the courts decide but instead that they can take it upon themselves to decide for us. |
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Depends on state law. Ohio allows it to be stripped and in plain sight. A rack witha lock is acceptable. But dick head cops will still pull you over, regardless of the law! |
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doesn't have to be in the truck i use to keep a 12ga pump w/ pistol grip behind the seat of my truck, open chamber buckshot in the ash tray...
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But remember the "pucker factor" that the cop goes through when first eyeing a rifle in a truck cab, especially in the cities for some reason. My concern would be when you are not near the truck and someone sees the rifle and decides to break in. Out of sight helps to prevent a break in. |
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