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Posted: 3/4/2005 12:08:28 PM EST
is it legal to keep a rifle and ammo in my truck? do they have to be locked in seperate containers? any info on keeping guns in your car will help. thanks
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 12:53:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/4/2005 12:57:06 PM EST by Mall-Ninja]
From a legal standpoint, the guns must always be in fully enclosed, locked containers, with the ammunition kept in a separate container, while transporting.

There's also the clause that states that the only way you're allowed to have guns in the trunk of your car is transport to and from the range, or if your workplace allows you to carry (like you work as a security puke), to and from your workplace.


That's it.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 2:02:23 PM EST
i thought the enclosed and locked part was only for handguns and AW

rifles/shotguns only need to be unloaded from what I remember.

Ive never heard of the trunk thing, only that the trunk can be considered a locked and seperate container.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 2:21:39 PM EST
what about loaded mags? i've read the laws and it doesn't say specifically, but i've heard people say loaded mags are considered loaded weopon. anyone know the skinny on this? anyone been prosecuted for it? i couldn't imagine showing up at the range and have to spend the next 45 minutes loading mags, but if the alternative could land me in jail i'll guess i'll start.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 4:01:54 PM EST
From hat I remember, the lw goes something like this:

- Handguns and AWs must be in fully enclosed and locked containers.
- Ammunition must be kept seperate from all firearms.
- If the firearm takes a feeding device or can be loaded rapidly via some mechanism (a la revolvers), having said feeding device loaded is the same as the firearm being loaded.


Basically, if it's a rifle, just keep the ammo in the ammo box and you should be ok. If it's a handgun or AW, lock it up and keep the ammo in its box.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 4:30:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/4/2005 4:31:52 PM EST by devildogvet]
Incorrect. AW and handguns most be in a locked case. Rifles and shotguns do not.

I have never been able to find anything about loaded magazines. But, everytime I show up to the range I have some selfperclamed gun law expert tell me it is illegal. What ever.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 5:10:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By devildogvet:
Incorrect. AW and handguns most be in a locked case. Rifles and shotguns do not.



Correct.

And the to & from range thing for simple long arms is incorrect too. Nothing in cali state law prohibits you from throwing a rifle or shotgun in your trucnk allog with a can of ammo while you go about your day. Anyone that thinks it's illegal, please cite the applicable section of the California Penal code.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 5:12:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By G_MAN:
what about loaded mags? i've read the laws and it doesn't say specifically, but i've heard people say loaded mags are considered loaded weopon.


there is case law that says a loaded mag, in the weapon with an empty chamber is "loaded." There is also case law that says a side saddle or butt stock shell carrier, containing live rounds, is NOT loaded if there are no shells in the mag tube or chamber.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 5:50:46 PM EST
I know that when I'm hunting I can have "one in the pipe" in a vehicle on private property. On public land only in the mag. I dont know about in the city.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 6:17:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/4/2005 6:18:35 PM EST by pieeater]
Can anyone explain what this means [ the exclusions in 12027]



12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he
or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.

(b) Carrying a concealed firearm in violation of this section is
punishable, as follows:
(1) Where the person previously has been convicted of any felony,
or of any crime made punishable by this chapter, as a felony.
(2) Where the firearm is stolen and the person knew or had
reasonable cause to believe that it was stolen, as a felony.
(3) Where the person is an active participant in a criminal street
gang, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 186.22, under the
Street Terrorism Enforcement and Prevention Act (Chapter 11
(commencing with Section 186.20) of Title 7 of Part 1), as a felony.

(4) Where the person is not in lawful possession of the firearm,
as defined in this section, or the person is within a class of
persons prohibited from possessing or acquiring a firearm pursuant to
Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the
Welfare and Institutions Code, as a felony.
(5) Where the person has been convicted of a crime against a
person or property, or of a narcotics or dangerous drug violation, by
imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county
jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand
dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(6) By imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a
county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment if
both of the following conditions are met:
(A) Both the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person and the unexpended ammunition capable of
being discharged from that firearm are either in the immediate
possession of the person or readily accessible to that person, or the
pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person is loaded as defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12031.

(B) The person is not listed with the Department of Justice
pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section 11106, as the
registered owner of that pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(7) In all cases other than those specified in paragraphs (1) to
(6), inclusive, by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one
year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by
both that imprisonment and fine.
(c) A peace officer may arrest a person for a violation of
paragraph (6) of subdivision (b) if the peace officer has probable
cause to believe that the person is not listed with the Department of
Justice pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section
11106 as the registered owner of the pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, and one or more
of the conditions in subparagraph (A) of paragraph (6) of subdivision
(b) is met.
(d) (1) Every person convicted under this section who previously
has been convicted of a misdemeanor offense enumerated in Section
12001.6 shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for at
least three months and not exceeding six months, or, if granted
probation, or if the execution or imposition of sentence is
suspended, it shall be a condition thereof that he or she be
imprisoned in a county jail for at least three months.
(2) Every person convicted under this section who has previously
been convicted of any felony, or of any crime made punishable by this
chapter, if probation is granted, or if the execution or imposition
of sentence is suspended, it shall be a condition thereof that he or
she be imprisoned in a county jail for not less than three months.
(e) The court shall apply the three-month minimum sentence as
specified in subdivision (d), except in unusual cases where the
interests of justice would best be served by granting probation or
suspending the imposition or execution of sentence without the
minimum imprisonment required in subdivision (d) or by granting
probation or suspending the imposition or execution of sentence with
conditions other than those set forth in subdivision (d), in which
case, the court shall specify on the record and shall enter on the
minutes the circumstances indicating that the interests of justice
would best be served by that disposition.
(f) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed
within the meaning of this section.
(g) For purposes of this section, "lawful possession of the
firearm" means that the person who has possession or custody of the
firearm either lawfully owns the firearm or has the permission of the
lawful owner or a person who otherwise has apparent authority to
possess or have custody of the firearm. A person who takes a firearm
without the permission of the lawful owner or without the permission
of a person who has lawful custody of the firearm does not have
lawful possession of the firearm.
(h) (1) The district attorney of each county shall submit annually
a report on or before June 30, to the Attorney General consisting of
profiles by race, age, gender, and ethnicity of any person charged
with a felony or a misdemeanor under this section and any other
offense charged in the same complaint, indictment, or information.
(2) The Attorney General shall submit annually, a report on or
before December 31, to the Legislature compiling all of the reports
submitted pursuant to paragraph (1).
(3) This subdivision shall remain operative until January 1, 2005,
and as of that date shall be repealed.


12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:

(a) (1) (A) Any peace officer, listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2,
or subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, whether active or honorably
retired, other duly appointed peace officers, honorably retired peace
officers listed in subdivision (c) of Section 830.5, other honorably
retired peace officers who during the course and scope of their
employment as peace officers were authorized to, and did, carry
firearms, full-time paid peace officers of other states and the
federal government who are carrying out official duties while in
California, or any person summoned by any of these officers to assist
in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is
actually engaged in assisting that officer. Any peace officer
described in this paragraph who has been honorably retired shall be
issued an identification certificate by the law enforcement agency
from which the officer has retired. The issuing agency may charge a
fee necessary to cover any reasonable expenses incurred by the agency
in issuing certificates pursuant to this subdivision. As used in
this section and Section 12031, the term "honorably retired" includes
all peace officers who have qualified for, and have accepted, a
service or disability retirement. For purposes of this section and
Section 12031, the term "honorably retired" does not include an
officer who has agreed to a service retirement in lieu of
termination.
(B) Any officer, except an officer listed in Section 830.1 or
830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of
Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1, 1981, shall have an
endorsement on the identification certificate stating that the
issuing agency approves the officer's carrying of a concealed
firearm.
(C) No endorsement or renewal endorsement issued pursuant to
paragraph (2) shall be effective unless it is in the format set forth
in subparagraph (D), except that any peace officer listed in
subdivision (f) of Section 830.2 or in subdivision (c) of Section
830.5, who is retired between January 2, 1981, and on or before
December 31, 1988, and who is authorized to carry a concealed firearm
pursuant to this section, shall not be required to have an
endorsement in the format set forth in subparagraph (D) until the
time of the issuance, on or after January 1, 1989, of a renewal
endorsement pursuant to paragraph (2).
(D) A certificate issued pursuant to this paragraph for persons
who are not listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of
Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 or for persons
retiring after January 1, 1981, shall be in the following format: it
shall be on a 2X3 inch card, bear the photograph of the retiree, the
retiree's name, address, date of birth, the date that the retiree
retired, name and address of the agency from which the retiree
retired, have stamped on it the endorsement "CCW Approved" and the
date the endorsement is to be renewed.
(E) For purposes of this section and Section 12031, "CCW" means
"carry concealed weapons."
(2) A retired peace officer, except an officer listed in Section
830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c)
of Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1, 1981, shall
petition the issuing agency for the renewal of his or her privilege
to carry a concealed firearm every five years. An honorably retired
peace officer listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of
Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 who retired prior
to January 1, 1981, shall not be required to obtain an endorsement
from the issuing agency to carry a concealed firearm. The agency
from which a peace officer is honorably retired may, upon initial
retirement of that peace officer, or at any time subsequent thereto,
deny or revoke for good cause the retired officer's privilege to
carry a concealed firearm. A peace officer who is listed in Section
830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c)
of Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1, 1981, shall have
his or her privilege to carry a concealed firearm denied or revoked
by having the agency from which the officer retired stamp on the
officer's identification certificate "No CCW privilege."
(3) An honorably retired peace officer who is listed in
subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 and authorized to carry concealed
firearms by this subdivision shall meet the training requirements of
Section 832 and shall qualify with the firearm at least annually.
The individual retired peace officer shall be responsible for
maintaining his or her eligibility to carry a concealed firearm. The
Department of Justice shall provide subsequent arrest notification
pursuant to Section 11105.2 regarding honorably retired peace
officers listed in subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 to the agency
from which the officer has retired.
(b) The possession or transportation of unloaded pistols,
revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the
person as merchandise by a person who is engaged in the business of
manufacturing, importing, wholesaling, repairing, or dealing in
firearms and who is licensed to engage in that business or the
authorized representative or authorized agent of that person while
engaged in the lawful course of the business.
(c) Members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, or Marine
Corps of the United States, or the National Guard, when on duty, or
organizations which are by law authorized to purchase or receive
those weapons from the United States or this state.
(d) The carrying of unloaded pistols, revolvers, or other firearms
capable of being concealed upon the person by duly authorized
military or civil organizations while parading, or the members
thereof when going to and from the places of meeting of their
respective organizations.
(e) Guards or messengers of common carriers, banks, and other
financial institutions while actually employed in and about the
shipment, transportation, or delivery of any money, treasure,
bullion, bonds, or other thing of value within this state.
(f) Members of any club or organization organized for the purpose
of practicing shooting at targets upon established target ranges,
whether public or private, while the members are using pistols,
revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the
person upon the target ranges, or transporting these firearms
unloaded when going to and from the ranges.
(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or
other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while
engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms
unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing
expedition.[b/]

(h) Transportation of unloaded firearms by a person operating a
licensed common carrier or an authorized agent or employee thereof
when transported in conformance with applicable federal law.
(i) Upon approval of the sheriff of the county in which they
reside, honorably retired federal officers or agents of federal law
enforcement agencies, including, but not limited to, the Federal
Bureau of Investigation, the Secret Service, the United States
Customs Service, the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and
Firearms, the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, the Drug Enforcement
Administration, the United States Border Patrol, and officers or
agents of the Internal Revenue Service who were authorized to carry
weapons while on duty, who were assigned to duty within the state for
a period of not less than one year, or who retired from active
service in the state.
Retired federal officers or agents shall provide the sheriff with
certification from the agency from which they retired certifying
their service in the state, the nature of their retirement, and
indicating the agency's concurrence that the retired federal officer
or agent should be accorded the privilege of carrying a concealed
firearm.
Upon that approval, the sheriff shall issue a permit to the
retired federal officer or agent indicating that he or she may carry
a concealed firearm in accordance with this subdivision. The permit
shall be valid for a period not exceeding five years, shall be
carried by the retiree while carrying a concealed firearm, and may be
revoked for good cause.
The sheriff of the county in which the retired federal officer or
agent resides may require recertification prior to a permit renewal,
and may suspend the privilege for cause. The sheriff may charge a
fee necessary to cover any reasonable expenses incurred by the
county.
(j) The carrying of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person by a person who is authorized to
carry that weapon in a concealed manner pursuant to Article 3
(commencing with Section 12050).



Link Posted: 3/4/2005 7:48:35 PM EST
so i can keep an sks in a case and an ammo can with ammo on stripper clips and be legal?
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 8:14:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By occaar:
so i can keep an sks in a case and an ammo can with ammo on stripper clips and be legal?



As long as it is a legally configured SKS, yes. An SKS is a not a "concealable firearm" under Cali law.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:26:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By pieeater:
Can anyone explain what this means [ the exclusions in 12027]



I think it is basically saying, you are carring concealed if you conceal carry it normally, or if you conceal it while in a vehicle, whethere you are driving or not. I THINK it's trying to say while in a vehicle, the vehicle acts as part of you, not you as part of it. So hiding a pistol under the seat is the same as hiding it in your pants. Obviously, taking it in the car, aka concealing it inside the car, would be concealed carry (unless it was locked up in a container).

The lower part, I think, basically says it doesn't apply when you have a valid reason to do so, the two you highlighted being about target shooting and fishind/hunting.

To me it sounds like it's trying to say that if you are at a range, or similar location, where it is established that you are shooting, then concealed carry is ok. the second sounds like if you are hunting, obviously you will have a weapon to hunt with, so if you put a pistol in your pocket while you hunt, it's no big deal (I COULD BE VERY WRONG HERE, which I probably am).
Link Posted: 3/5/2005 5:55:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/10/2005 6:21:16 PM EST by tatsuosan1964]
Come on guys, we need to be a little more careful here. Look how many different "Interpretations" of the law are contained within this post. The question is being asked so that the original poster can make a legal, responsible decision. Reading all of the answers given, he is probably more confused and unsure than he was before posting. When it comes to legal matters, we as a group should only post answers if we know, 100% the basis and facts of the answer, not on how we interpret the answer. Look how many times we read about California's "Assault Weapons" laws and how DOJ is enforcing the law slightly different than how the statue reads. They can do this, even press charges, and let the courts decide the outcome and as AR15fan says, then it becomes case law. From previous posts, it sounds like AR15fan is LEO. He is qualified to answer this question as he probably deals with these issues on a regular basis during the course of his duties. I have seen posts from other members who appear to have some legal background as well who may also be qualified to answer these questions. We are only providing a disservice to our fellow members if we answer these legal questions with our own interpretations as the Cop who arrests you, the DA who prosecutes you, the jury that listens to the facts, and the Judge who presides over the trial, are not going to give a rat's ass about you being told on an internet forum that it was OK to do what you did if it was illegal. I know that I'm putting my tail on the line here because I'm sure that I'm going to piss someone off because they will take it the wrong way or take it the right way and not like it. TOO BAD. DEAL WITH IT. It is something that I feel needs to be said. One of the advantages of a forum like this is that we get to share a passion with each other, a passion that many do not understand or agree with. We can't get everyone to agree with us but we can take care of each other by making sure that only credible information is given in something as non flexible as our gun laws. How do you think someone like AR15fan will feel if he has to arrest one of us for violating a law because we heard that it was OK to do something? He may not agree with the law, but that's not his job. He is going to enforce it because that is his job.

I now get off of my Soapbox.
Link Posted: 3/5/2005 6:23:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By occaar:
so i can keep an sks in a case and an ammo can with ammo on stripper clips and be legal?



As long as it is a legally configured SKS, yes. An SKS is a not a "concealable firearm" under Cali law.



That sounds good.
So I can keep either my 12ga or sks (legally configured) in the trunk of my truck with a box or 2 of ammo. Great.
Link Posted: 3/6/2005 6:14:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/6/2005 6:15:47 AM EST by ARsR4ME]
Originally Posted By tatsuosan1964:
"let the courts decide the outcome"

Are you shitting me!!! Your state.
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 6:26:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By ARsR4ME:
Originally Posted By tatsuosan1964:
"let the courts decide the outcome"

Are you shitting me!!! Your state.



Sorry ArsR4ME, but you read my post out of context. Note the strategically placed commas in the sentence to grasp that I am not saying that we should let the courts decide but instead that they can take it upon themselves to decide for us.
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 7:04:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mall-Ninja:
From a legal standpoint, the guns must always be in fully enclosed, locked containers, with the ammunition kept in a separate container, while transporting.

There's also the clause that states that the only way you're allowed to have guns in the trunk of your car is transport to and from the range, or if your workplace allows you to carry (like you work as a security puke), to and from your workplace.


That's it.



Depends on state law. Ohio allows it to be stripped and in plain sight. A rack witha lock is acceptable. But dick head cops will still pull you over, regardless of the law!
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:07:06 PM EST
doesn't have to be in the truck i use to keep a 12ga pump w/ pistol grip behind the seat of my truck, open chamber buckshot in the ash tray...

Link Posted: 3/14/2005 5:28:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By occaar:
so i can keep an sks in a case and an ammo can with ammo on stripper clips and be legal?



As long as it is a legally configured SKS, yes. An SKS is a not a "concealable firearm" under Cali law.



But remember the "pucker factor" that the cop goes through when first eyeing a rifle in a truck cab, especially in the cities for some reason.

My concern would be when you are not near the truck and someone sees the rifle and decides to break in. Out of sight helps to prevent a break in.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 2:28:00 PM EST
i agree with tatsuosan1964 i don't want anything to jepordise my right to own a weapon.
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