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Posted: 1/28/2011 6:34:56 PM EDT
It was from apparently days or weeks before I joined arfcom. titled "win a machine gun"

It has been locked and tacked for almost two and a half years. Thats a long time. I seem to remember it being a big to do.

Whatever happened with that? The players from that thread, Tlee and TNrobocop, are not really around that much??? And OEF-VET is not around i'm guessing?

Not wanting to rehash it , but I have seen it tacked up ever since I was a member and have always wondered what was going on.

Was there a resolution? Why do we still have it tacked up? Wouldnt it just be archived not trashed? that way new comers dont see it and wonder for 2 years whats going on.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 6:53:47 PM EDT
Two and a half years?

I didn't realize that my $100 worth of raffle tickets had been on the door of my refrigerator that long.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 7:02:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JPN:
Two and a half years?

I didn't realize that my $100 worth of raffle tickets had been on the door of my refrigerator that long.


yep, right at two and half years since that thread was locked. Since you were a ticket buyer do you have any news on any resolution? what is going on with that situation?
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 7:10:30 PM EDT
I just saw Frank (OEF-VET) at a gun show a few months ago. He's still around. I guess the resolution is that the money for machine guns, lower receiver group buys, etc is just gone, gone, gone. He can't give what he doesn't have.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 7:15:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Deadeye675:
Originally Posted By JPN:
Two and a half years?

I didn't realize that my $100 worth of raffle tickets had been on the door of my refrigerator that long.


yep, right at two and half years since that thread was locked. Since you were a ticket buyer do you have any news on any resolution? what is going on with that situation?


I have no expectation of there being a resolution (other than writing off the loss).

I bought the tickets with the same mindset that I would buy a lottery ticket - I probably won't win, but it's a gamble and somebody will eventually get lucky.

I left the tickets on the door of the fridge just as a little reminder to never spend much more than pocket change on gambles like that.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 7:21:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jeep29:
I just saw Frank (OEF-VET) at a gun show a few months ago. He's still around. I guess the resolution is that the money for machine guns, lower receiver group buys, etc is just gone, gone, gone. He can't give what he doesn't have.




This guy still operates in the gun business?

And he may not have anything to give, although I doubt that if he had inventory to sell at this gunshow, but by my calculation there is felony level money involved??? this might be a federal fraud case, due to the nature of what was being raffled??? All of his assets would be seized and auctioned to be paid as restitution???
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 7:29:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JPN:
Originally Posted By Deadeye675:
Originally Posted By JPN:
Two and a half years?

I didn't realize that my $100 worth of raffle tickets had been on the door of my refrigerator that long.


yep, right at two and half years since that thread was locked. Since you were a ticket buyer do you have any news on any resolution? what is going on with that situation?


I have no expectation of there being a resolution (other than writing off the loss).

I bought the tickets with the same mindset that I would buy a lottery ticket - I probably won't win, but it's a gamble and somebody will eventually get lucky.

I left the tickets on the door of the fridge just as a little reminder to never spend much more than pocket change on gambles like that.


I can see how you are dealing with your involvement in a positive nature, but there is a big difference in buying a losing lotto ticket and buying a lotto ticket and never having a drawing. I think I would have hard feelings. But I'm on the very outside looking in. My info is limited to what I've read in the locked thread several times.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 7:33:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Deadeye675:
Originally Posted By JPN:
Originally Posted By Deadeye675:
Originally Posted By JPN:
Two and a half years?

I didn't realize that my $100 worth of raffle tickets had been on the door of my refrigerator that long.


yep, right at two and half years since that thread was locked. Since you were a ticket buyer do you have any news on any resolution? what is going on with that situation?


I have no expectation of there being a resolution (other than writing off the loss).

I bought the tickets with the same mindset that I would buy a lottery ticket - I probably won't win, but it's a gamble and somebody will eventually get lucky.

I left the tickets on the door of the fridge just as a little reminder to never spend much more than pocket change on gambles like that.


I can see how you are dealing with your involvement in a positive nature, but there is a big difference in buying a losing lotto ticket and buying a lotto ticket and never having a drawing. I think I would have hard feelings. But I'm on the very outside looking in. My info is limited to what I've read in the locked thread several times.


That's the only part that bothered me. In this instance, nobody eventually got lucky.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 9:19:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2011 11:46:50 AM EDT by TnRedneck]

Deadeye, just a note....


The players from that thread, Tlee and TNrobocop, are not really around that much???


Don't know about Tlee.

TNrobocop is or was still around. He is good people who will help if he can. The last time I talked with him was before the holidays and he was doing OK, excited about new opportunities. From what I know he doesn't post much here any longer but he does visit the place when he has the opportunity.



ETA: You cannot put toothpaste back in the tube. You cannot pull back a fired bullet.
I have deleted some comments I made last night knowing I cannot pull them back but then I
let my emotions override my common sense. I apologize to anyone if I have caused you grief,
hurt or concern by those comments.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 7:24:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TnRedneck:

Deadeye, just a note....


The players from that thread, Tlee and TNrobocop, are not really around that much???


Don't know about Tlee.

TNrobocop is or was still around. He is good people who will help if he can. The last time I talked with him was before the holidays and he was doing OK, excited about new opportunities. From what I know he doesn't post much here any longer but he does visit the place when he has the opportunity.

People from time to time report seeing OFF-VET around at gun shows which to me is surprising since I thought he was off visiting Club Fed somewhere.

As far as keeping the post tacked and not archived - that's a great idea. I feel the moderators want to constantly remind us of what OFF-VET did. He hurt a lot of good people and we should never forget that. He hurt this web site and none of us should forgive him that. Sorry, I let my emotions get a little out of control. But that's my $ 0.02. Thanks.



Ok we should never forget..............except for the fact that us newcomers have no clue who he is. Apparently according to this thread his name is Frank and he still sells guns at shows. other than that I got nothing. I could go to a gun show, not out of the realm of possibility , and buy something from this person without being any wiser.

Just guessing from his screen name, but he was in a uniform at one point in time right?
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 8:03:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2011 8:17:24 AM EDT by BimmerFreak]


Just guessing from his screen name, but he was in a uniform at one point in time right?


Frank fooled and fucked a lot of us here, on Lightfighter, and in the real world.
Frank is one of those guys that I doubt he really ever set out to screw a bunch of people, but in the end, hung himself and destroyed his business.

Here is an intro post from TGO back in June 2007

Good evening, ladies and gents. I'm the new guy, so I guess it's my turn to introduce myself.

My name is Frank Maschhoff. I am the President of Elite Tactical Systems, Inc (ETS, Inc.), a Type 07 FFL / Class 2 SOT, out of Franklin, TN.

ETS manufactures suppressors (.22 and .223 currently), AOW's (Rem 870 and NAA .22 mini-revolver / wallet combos), SBR's, SBS's, and MG's. In addition to manufacturing, we also do retail sales of other manufacturers products. We also do a lot of work on AR-15 style rifles.

We rent retail space from Lock, Stock, and Barrel gunsmiths, in Franklin, so anyone familiar with Tom and John Marker's shop will know where we are located. Tom does a lot of our gunsmithing work for us, including barrel threading. He has been working on guns since he was a small-arms machinist in the Marine Corps in 1969. He is also a retired tool and die man, having spent most of his life in the automotive industry.

As for myself, I bring a lot of firearms experience to the table. I was an active duty soldier for eight years. I spent two years as an Infantryman (11B) with the 8th ID(M) in Germany, and an additional six years as an Artillery Forward Observer (13F) with the 101st ABN DIV (AASLT) at Ft. Campbell, KY. (I spent about 2 of those 6 years doing Military Intelligence work as well.) During my time with the famed 101st, I got the opportunities to deploy to Kosovo in 2000, and to Afghanistan in 2002. After I left the Army in late 2002, I worked doing Private Security / Executive Protection in the Nashville area for about a year. I am also an NRA certified Pistol Instructor and TN Dept. of Safety Certified Handgun Carry Permit Instructor. I began shooting in the fall of 1983, when I took my NRA Hunter's Safety Course in Great Falls, MT. (My deer hunting skills are non-existant, so don't expect much advice from me in that regard.) I fired my first handgun, a Taurus 66, in 1987, under the tutelage of my dad, who is retired Air Force and a Deputy Sheriff. I have had carry permits issued in 5 States over the last 10 years.

My personal gun collection is very limited, as I am a staunch proponent of getting to know one system intimately, and sticking with it. Since I don't hunt, my guns are primarily meant for self-defense. My preferred platforms include 1911's (particularly Para-Ordnance's LDA trigger), S&W revolvers, AR-15/M-16 rifles, and Remington 870 shotguns.

Some of you might know of ETS, Inc, as we set up at both the Bill Goodman's and Bob Pope gunshows in Nashville and Franklin (formerly Smyrna for the Pope shows). You might also know me from ASP in Joelton, where I teach carry permit classes.

If you ever have a question about TN handgun carry permit issues, or about the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA or NFA34), feel free to drop me a line.

Glad to be here, and hope to learn and contribute.



Frank should be in Federal prison, yet continues to walk free, and from what a few people have posted, still goes to gun shows.
How he has not ended up in prison or a pine box, is a mystery to me!

A simple google search brings up more examples of his douchebagery
http://www.m4orum.com/SMF_Forum/index.php?topic=113.0

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/class-iii-nfa-firearms-accessories/23321-need-find-elite-tactical-systems-owner.html

You need to be a member to view this thread on Lightfighter:
http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5436084761/m/1901087873?f=5436084761&a=tpc&m=1901087873&s=7336015661
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 8:08:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2011 8:09:08 AM EDT by JPN]
(edit) Nevermind.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 11:55:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:07:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hank:
Originally Posted By Deadeye675:
Originally Posted By TnRedneck:

Deadeye, just a note....


The players from that thread, Tlee and TNrobocop, are not really around that much???


Don't know about Tlee.

TNrobocop is or was still around. He is good people who will help if he can. The last time I talked with him was before the holidays and he was doing OK, excited about new opportunities. From what I know he doesn't post much here any longer but he does visit the place when he has the opportunity.

People from time to time report seeing OFF-VET around at gun shows which to me is surprising since I thought he was off visiting Club Fed somewhere.

As far as keeping the post tacked and not archived - that's a great idea. I feel the moderators want to constantly remind us of what OFF-VET did. He hurt a lot of good people and we should never forget that. He hurt this web site and none of us should forgive him that. Sorry, I let my emotions get a little out of control. But that's my $ 0.02. Thanks.



Ok we should never forget..............except for the fact that us newcomers have no clue who he is. Apparently according to this thread his name is Frank and he still sells guns at shows. other than that I got nothing. I could go to a gun show, not out of the realm of possibility , and buy something from this person without being any wiser.

Just guessing from his screen name, but he was in a uniform at one point in time right?


TNRedneck is right as far as why the thread is tacked. As has been mentioned, Frank screwed a bunch of folks here and on other boards- including current and former MIL folks. Frank himself is former MIL, which makes the situation here and on other boards all the worse. He is one of the big reasons why things like raffles, etc, aren't allowed in the forums anymore.

Here's what Frank did, in a nutshell-

1) On arfcom, Frank was allowed to offer tickets to a raffle for both an AC556 and a Thompson. Both of these guns actually existed- saw them myself with me own two eyes. Hell, I am one of the ones that Frank screwed on the raffle. Long story short, Frank sold a pretty good amount of tickets here and on other gun boards without ever (to my knowledge) holding the raffle.

2) On lightfighter.net, Frank sold a bunch of custom lowers to folks and only delivered about half of them. See what Bimmerfreak posted above.

There may be more that we haven't heard of, but there's that. Not sure if he surrendered his FFL/SOT or he had it revoked, but last I knew he no longer owned his own business but was working for another FFL.

Also, like Bimmerfreak pointed out, I think Frank started out doing at least partially the right thing- he did some custom lowers for this forum that I THINK were all delivered, never heard any issues from anyone on them.


I might be able to shed a little more light on the subject . I try not to have hard feelings towards Frank , but it can take a lot at times . Frank did the first lower group buy here and as far as I know of it went off fine without a hitch . He saw the possiblity to sell a product that people wanted , and make a decent profit . While doing the sale on another board (unbeknownst to me ) he started the MG raffle , first with the AC556 the with the two tommy guns . Everything started out legit (afik) and he was planning on having the drawings when a set amount of tickets were sold . It was sometime around here that he decided to move the shop to another location . He started doing more shows and getting bigger . Sales of our cans was tapering off and let me do what I like doing which was R&D work . When I finaly got wind of things going south with the buisness was when someone emailed me links to a couple of threads and asked if I could help him contact Frank . To say that I was pissed would be a slight understatement . I decided to give Frank the benifit of the doubt ands he said he was working on getting people thier stuff. Things went south between Frank and the ATF ( they pulled the SOT and FFL , but brought no charges AFIK ) . All the post samples were turned over at that time ( really miss my MP5 and never recieved any compensation as I had payed for it out of my own pocket) , includng a few that were supposed to go to other dealers (built on thier host , some were very upset to say the least ) . A few months later I had to shell out quite a bit to get my remaning inventory out that I could . Many customers cans and some other stock was just turned over to the ATF the last time that I saw Frank ( at the ATF offices) .
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 4:02:29 PM EDT
I want to be clear, all I was looking for was some clarity on the tacked thread. Anything I could say at this point would just be stirring the shit. I have no dog in this, and I dont want one either. I'll leave it at that. And if anyone wants to add information that is based on facts, I'm sure all involved would like to hear it.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 4:09:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Deadeye675:

This guy still operates in the gun business?


No, Frank just attends as an individual. I also spoke to him at a local show about 2-3 months ago but didn't ask about the tickets as I didn't buy one. He is back to work as a chef, though.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 4:13:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Deadeye675:

And if anyone wants to add information that is based on facts, I'm sure all involved would like to hear it.



Son, I am dissapoint. This IS arfcom.....................
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 4:19:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BobCole:
Originally Posted By Deadeye675:

And if anyone wants to add information that is based on facts, I'm sure all involved would like to hear it.



Son, I am dissapoint. This IS arfcom.....................


did I say that????? I offer my most profound apologies sir. Of course where it said "add information based of facts" I had intended on posting " speculate wildly, any rumors or innuendos are to reported immediately " . I'll just blame this oversight on the ARFCOM spellcheck feature and move along.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 6:15:36 PM EDT
You know I have wondered about that thread for the longest too!! I thought they were never going to end it!
No good MF though, that is just DIRTY!
Another reason I dont participate in those kinda things
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 6:27:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By offuuu:
Another reason I dont participate in those kinda things


Yeah, I've been around long enough to learn that these sorts of things (group ANYTHING that involves $$$) tends to turn into a Charlie Foxtrot more often than not.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 10:18:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 2:45:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Deadeye675:

did I say that????? I offer my most profound apologies sir. Of course where it said "add information based of facts" I had intended on posting " speculate wildly, any rumors or innuendos are to reported immediately " . I'll just blame this oversight on the ARFCOM spellcheck feature and move along.






I think I might be one of the few in here that didn't buy a ticket from Frank.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 2:48:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2011 2:49:18 AM EDT by BobCole]
Originally Posted By offuuu:

Another reason I dont participate in those kinda things


Depends on who is backing it, yes? For example, several of us (including me ) sell tickets for guns to help the Friends of the NRA banquets around the state. Obviously, the FNRA is on the up & up & there's no reason to doubt them, IMO. I mention this as I will be doing a thread soon on tickets for a S/S 1911 @ $10 each for the Nashville banquet.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 6:54:19 AM EDT
I've meet Frank a few times, been to his old apartment and had beers at a local bar. I do know a few of the guys he was in business with pretty well, and they are good dudes. I've talked to them about it, and my take on the whole thing is that Frank just didn't know how to handle that scale of operations. I don't believe there was any malice, just incompetence.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 7:40:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2011 7:41:08 AM EDT by HermanSnerd]
The bottom line is, regardless of what transpired, the money is gone, the gun is gone, Frank doesn't post here anymore, and there will be no legal action taken.

Can we all just agree that this is old news and the tacked thread needs to go away?

After 2 and 1/2 years, it serves no purpose and I am tired of looking at it.





Link Posted: 1/30/2011 3:54:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HermanSnerd:
The bottom line is, regardless of what transpired, the money is gone, the gun is gone, Frank doesn't post here anymore, and there will be no legal action taken.

Can we all just agree that this is old news and the tacked thread needs to go away?

After 2 and 1/2 years, it serves no purpose and I am tired of looking at it.



I concurr & couldn't have said it better. Let it go & let's all move on with our lives, eh?
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 4:25:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 9:50:32 PM EDT
That thread staying tacked will only result in someone else a few years from now starting another thread just like this. "HEY OLDTIMERS..........WTF is this shit about?" I'm not suggesting it get trashed, but archived would definatly be appropriate in my eyes.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 3:46:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Deadeye675:
That thread staying tacked will only result in someone else a few years from now starting another thread just like this. "HEY OLDTIMERS..........WTF is this shit about?" I'm not suggesting it get trashed, but archived would definatly be appropriate in my eyes.


+1
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:06:51 AM EDT
Second
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:12:03 AM EDT
i believe the ayes have it.....
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 7:10:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 1:31:00 PM EDT
Who's worse? Frank or AROCK The legends of douchebaggery live!

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 2:14:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bladed45TN:
Who's worse? Frank or AROCK The legends of douchebaggery live!



Both the frank stuff and the AROCK stuff was before my time. But the AROCK stuff comes up so often I already knew what was going on there.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 3:27:20 PM EDT
I still have my raffle ticket in my wallet.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 3:50:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 7:50:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hank:
Yeah, I tossed mine a while ago on a grand wallet clean out.

Thread tack has been removed.


You are SO gonna kick my ass when you see what I did.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 7:54:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 6:15:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2011 6:15:34 AM EDT by BobCole]
Originally Posted By HermanSnerd:

You are SO gonna kick my ass when you see what I did.






So YOU were the one who won the gun?
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 7:41:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BobCole:
Originally Posted By HermanSnerd:

You are SO gonna kick my ass when you see what I did.






So YOU were the one who won the gun?


Not hardly. I didn't even buy a ticket!

I guess I am one of the lucky few that did not get "Franked".



Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:24:52 PM EDT
I was buying a Spikes tactical regestered SBR lower from Frank when everything fell apart for him. I did make a mistake on my paperwork so i take partial blame. Everyone told me i would never see my lower. On a positive note the guys at Hero Gear offered to sell me a regertered SBR lower at their cost. After my paperwork went pending with them, Frank called me and said my Spikes paperwork had finally cleared. I called Hero Gear back and offered to pay full price for the second upper but he wouldnt let me. Long story short I ended up with two regestered SBRs. I was one of the success stories. Frank really did seem like a good fella, just made some bad business choices. And the guys at Here Gear are top shelf.
Link Posted: 2/2/2011 6:14:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HermanSnerd:
I guess I am one of the lucky few that did not get "Franked".





Luckily, I did not get "Franked" either. I actually messaged him about buying some raffle tickets. However, since I did not know him, I wanted to meet at his shop and buy the tickets in person. His response was similar to "I don't have any set hours that I will be at my shop, just mail me your money." My suspicion meter went off the scale on that, so I never bought anything.

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