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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/7/2006 9:15:00 AM EDT
While reading the local and state laws on getting a license to get a pistol license for home protection, target and hunting, or ccw (very limited), i came across something interesting. however, i can't remember where i read it, or if it is true.

As we all know, owning/obtaining a license in this state is nearly impossible in some parts...i.e. westchester which is where i am. But what i read is that if someone were to give you the handgun/pistol as a gift, you were allowed to keep it in your house while the permit was being validated. Also, that if this were the case, the likelyhood that the permit would be issued is much greater and the wait time is much less.

does anyone know where i read this, or if this is true?

thanks in advance for your time.

Joe
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 10:26:46 AM EDT
It is no more difficult to get a Pistol License in WC then anywhere else. It will be restricted to target/hunting unless you meet the requirements for a employment related license or otherwise have the juice for an unrestricted license.

You cannot posses a handgun in NYS while waiting for your license to be issued. You would subject yourself to a possible arrest and prosecution for criminal possession of a firearm. Needless to say your pistol license application would also be denied.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 10:57:56 PM EDT
fantastic...thank you
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:10:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 8:12:40 AM EDT by NY-EMT]
Westchester took me 6 months to the day for approval, and will always take 6 months. The longest part of the application process is waiting for the judge to sign off on the approved applications. It can sit on his desk for months. From what I understand, some counties such as Nassau are even more difficult to deal with.

Once approved Westchester treats permit holders with courtesy and respect, and don't make you bring a new purchase in for inspection. I did so many transactions there I even became friendly with one of the women in the office who always took care of me immediately, even if there were 20 bannanaheads waiting for passports or other stuff.

Not that other counties aren't easier to work with, Dutchess goes so far as to mail my purchase docs out to me so I only have to go in once. There are worse places than Westchester to apply, just follow the process and forget about shortcuts - You either qualify or you don't.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:26:56 AM EDT
The only other downside of getting a license in WC is that it will expire and needs to be renewed every five years. It's a painless process that is done through the mail but if you move to another county you have to re-apply for a new license from scratch. This is ridiculous and the law should be changed to allow a transfer in the same manner as for licenses that don't expire.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 1:43:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NY-EMT:
Westchester took me 6 months to the day for approval, and will always take 6 months. ]

It also took me 6 months to the day, and I live out in Suffolk Co. I believe I read on these boards, but can't be certain, that they are obligated to either issue the permit, or deny it within 6 months of them receiving the application. I don't know how true it is, but it seems reasonable.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:12:54 PM EDT
Mine was issued in roughly 6 months in Nassau County. It recently took my wife eight months to get hers though. Knowing Nassau, they will probably begin to annotate applications and advise of the new eight month wait...lol.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:21:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By apf383:
I believe I read on these boards, but can't be certain, that they are obligated to either issue the permit, or deny it within 6 months of them receiving the application. I don't know how true it is, but it seems reasonable.



Yes that is correct but as a practical matter if they take longer then 6 months there is very little you can do about it.

4-a. Processing of license applications. Applications for licenses shall be accepted for processing by the licensing officer at the time of presentment. Except upon written notice to the applicant specifically stating the reasons for any delay, in each case the licensing officer shall act upon any application for a license pursuant to this section within six months of the date of presentment of such an application to the appropriate authority. Such delay may only be for good cause and with respect to the applicant. In acting upon an application, the licensing officer shall either deny the application for reasons specifically and concisely stated in writing or grant the application and issue the license applied for.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 11:24:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NY-EMT:
Westchester took me 6 months to the day for approval, and will always take 6 months....



Back when I did mine, it took 4 months, 2 days.

/ml.

Link Posted: 2/11/2006 9:42:42 AM EDT
I'm in Ulster County, took a few months to get initially. They issue unrestricted CCW's which are good until revoked. Purchasing a new pistol requires one trip to the sherriffs office. The staff at the pistol permit office are always courteous, professional and are happy to answer questions.

Link Posted: 2/11/2006 11:59:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 12:04:27 PM EDT by thirsty]
I'm in Onondaga County, and I got my Sportman license in about 3 weeks after I filed the paperwork. Although, my older brother was an AG investigator, and the Sheriff deputies knew my name, so I may have ended on the top of the pile with some help. he
Like you said Snowz000r, the Sheriff deputies here are great people who always seem thrilled when we want to put a new weapon on the license. I think they hate the laws of this state as much as we do.

Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:09:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
It is no more difficult to get a Pistol License in WC then anywhere else. It will be restricted to target/hunting unless you meet the requirements for a employment related license or otherwise have the juice for an unrestricted license.

You cannot posses a handgun in NYS while waiting for your license to be issued. You would subject yourself to a possible arrest and prosecution for criminal possession of a firearm. Needless to say your pistol license application would also be denied.



I have a full carry Westchester issued. I originally received a restricted then applied to remove the restriction. I prepared a letter and attached paperwork stating my reasons why I wanted the restriction removed. I have to recert this year and will do the same. It is not impossible to get, it is all how you go about doing it. No I do not know any of the judges either.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:19:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:42:04 AM EDT
Oh yeah, I think it's easy to get a license here unless you want an unrestricted carry. For that, you either have to know someone or have a damn good reason.

I'm going to wait a year and apply for a CCW, or apply to have the restrictions on my license removed, whatever way it works. My brother will help me to push the papers through, I hope.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:03:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 7:03:43 AM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By thirsty:
I'm going to wait a year and apply for a CCW, or apply to have the restrictions on my license removed,



It appears you live in a county that makes up its own terms for a NYS Pistol License that doesn’t exist in the PL. There is no such thing as a “Sportsman” pistol license in NY. They have simply made up the term as some other counties have done. You were issued a license in accordance with the following provision of the PL.

§ 400.00 Licenses to carry, possess, repair and dispose of firearms.

.............................................................................

f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance thereof;


Your licensing officer (a judge in your case) has placed administrative restrictions on your license. You can file an amendment and attempt to have those restrictions removed.

Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:08:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:59:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 8:01:06 AM EDT by thirsty]
Actually, the Sportsmans license was created at the request of gun owners who wanted more than what was already offered. It allows us to transport to ranges for competition shooting or target practice, transport to and carry on camping, hiking or hunting trips either concealed or exposed on our person, so long as we aren't near populated areas. Of course, that's moot because I would like to carry in the Adirondacks, and as far as I know weapons aren't allowed without permission on state park land anyhow.

I love NY too.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:03:54 AM EDT
I suspect if the NYC Dims ever take control of the NYS Senate the administrative restriction issue will be a moot point. They will simply eliminate the carry concealed provision in the current licensing law and replace it with a NYC type "Target Permit". It will no longer be a carry license and you will be required to transport your handguns unloaded and separate from the ammunition in locked containers.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:10:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:25:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thirsty:
Actually, the Sportsman's license was created at the request of gun owners who wanted more than what was already offered. It allows us to transport to ranges for competition shooting or target practice, transport to and carry on camping, hiking or hunting trips either concealed or exposed on our person, so long as we aren't near populated areas. Of course, that's moot because I would like to carry in the Adirondacks, and as far as I know weapons aren't allowed without permission on state park land anyhow.

I love NY too.



Thirsty: There is no such thing as a "sportsman's license" defined in NYS law. Your county may call it a “sportsman’s license” internally but a county does not have any authority to modify the pistol licensing law. Modifications to the pistol licensing law can only be made by the NYS Legislature. Your county licensing officer (judge) has simply placed restrictions on your license in accordance with and permitted by several NYS Court of Appeal decisions. These restrictions DO NOT EXIST in the Penal Law. If you carry outside of your restrictions you are subject to revocation of your license by a NYS judge (or the PD in SC and NC). You cannot be charged with any violation of criminal law as no such law exists.

There is also no “open carry” permitted in NYS. The only time you can legally carry a non-concealed handgun in NY is at the range or your residence. Technically while hunting you are also required to carry concealed (generally not enforced). If you carry a non-concealed handgun in NY (outside of a range or your residence) you are subject to arrest and prosecution for menacing.

I am not aware of any restrictions on carrying a concealed handgun in NYS Parks or NYS Forest preserves like the Adirondacks. In fact many of these areas are also prime hunting areas in NY. You cannot be afield during a non-firearm only hunting season with any gun. This applies to everyone including off-duty NYS LEOS who mistakenly think they can carry a concealed handgun during bow season etc.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:22:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 5:44:24 PM EDT by thirsty]
rkbar15: I never said it was a license defined by NY State. I said I got it in Onondaga County, and my license says "Sportsman" on it. As defined by the state it's a carry with restrictions license, amended by the county. Quite clearly, as stated in the paperwork provided by the Sheriff's office, as well as in the information provided during our 3 hour safety course, we can carry outside our person for the purposes of hunting, camping, hiking, and target/competition shooting. If the info didn't come from the Sheriff's office, I would be skeptical, but that's where I got it.
EDIT: Just to be certain, though, I'm going to call to make certain before I do carry outside in my holster and find out it is illegal the hard way.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:36:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 5:57:48 PM EDT by tc556guy]

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
[I am not aware of any restrictions on carrying a concealed handgun in NYS Parks or NYS Forest preserves like the Adirondacks. In fact many of these areas are also prime hunting areas in NY.


I worked for state parks in HS and college; he is right. Let me check Parks and Rec Law and get back with the section.
Edit to add: my on-line source for Parks and Rec Law isn't good, so I'm going to cite from memory here dating back to the late 70s: no ones allowed to have a firearm in a NYS Park, and even off-duty LEOs must declare their guns at the park office and surrender them while visiting the park. I'll drop into one of the local parks the next day I work and see if I can dig up one of their rule books that I used to read from cover to cover at 3 AM as a bored 16 year old.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:36:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
...There is also no “open carry” permitted in NYS. The only time you can legally carry a non-concealed handgun in NY is at the range or your residence. Technically while hunting you are also required to carry concealed (generally not enforced). If you carry a non-concealed handgun in NY (outside of a range or your residence) you are subject to arrest and prosecution for menacing. ...



Or if you are a LEO in uniform / ID, or NYS uniformed security guard , or a security guard on a "Armored car", or at your place of business.

/ml

Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:32:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 4:35:54 AM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:57:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ml2150:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
...There is also no “open carry” permitted in NYS. The only time you can legally carry a non-concealed handgun in NY is at the range or your residence. Technically while hunting you are also required to carry concealed (generally not enforced). If you carry a non-concealed handgun in NY (outside of a range or your residence) you are subject to arrest and prosecution for menacing. ...



Or if you are a LEO in uniform / ID, or NYS uniformed security guard , or a security guard on a "Armored car", or at your place of business.

/ml




NYS PO's and some classes of peace officer's (as defined in the CPL) are exempt from the licensing law and aren't issued pistol licenses. Armed security guards are restricted to specific times and to the location of the business. Armored car guards have no special exemption to open carry outside the armored car that I'm aware of but are usually not hassled for doing so.

In any case we are only discussing the concealed carry restriction for the following class of pistol license:

f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or
place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the
issuance thereof;
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:40:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

NYS PO's and some classes of peace officer's (as defined in the CPL) are exempt from the licensing law and aren't issued pistol licenses.


Not that they don't HAVE licenses, but they are not REQUIRED to have one while they have the tin. And your permit as an LEO, depending on your county, may very well have the same restrictions overstamped that any other person has. Mine is. On the other hand, they are required to report to their agency yearly what handguns they own on the badge, which the agency then notifies Albany of. And if you are suspended or retire, you then wind up having to turn in everything you had on the badge if you don't have your permit. So the smart officer doesn't go without a permit.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 9:14:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

NYS PO's and some classes of peace officer's (as defined in the CPL) are exempt from the licensing law and aren't issued pistol licenses.


Not that they don't HAVE licenses, but they are not REQUIRED to have one while they have the tin. And your permit as an LEO, depending on your county, may very well have the same restrictions overstamped that any other person has. Mine is. On the other hand, they are required to report to their agency yearly what handguns they own on the badge, which the agency then notifies Albany of. And if you are suspended or retire, you then wind up having to turn in everything you had on the badge if you don't have your permit. So the smart officer doesn't go without a permit.



Many NYS LEA’s including the NYSP (AFAIK) do not permit their sworn officer's to have a pistol permit. They purposely do this so when they suspend you they can immediately take all your department issued and personal handguns. A smart officer in this situation has a wife with a pistol permit.

All PO handguns (in theory) including department issued handguns in NY are registered with the NYSP. Acquisitions/dispositions of personal and department issued handguns are reported to the NYSP on "C" forms. There is also a database maintained by DCJS of all sworn police officer’s in NYS.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 10:33:57 AM EDT
Still another reason I had my better half get hers. My croaking first and her being allowed to shoot all of my firearms when we go to the range together (or from the bedroom to the hallway, lol) were my primary reasons.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 10:44:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 10:45:01 AM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
[I am not aware of any restrictions on carrying a concealed handgun in NYS Parks or NYS Forest preserves like the Adirondacks. In fact many of these areas are also prime hunting areas in NY.


I worked for state parks in HS and college; he is right. Let me check Parks and Rec Law and get back with the section.
Edit to add: my on-line source for Parks and Rec Law isn't good, so I'm going to cite from memory here dating back to the late 70s: no ones allowed to have a firearm in a NYS Park, and even off-duty LEOs must declare their guns at the park office and surrender them while visiting the park. I'll drop into one of the local parks the next day I work and see if I can dig up one of their rule books that I used to read from cover to cover at 3 AM as a bored 16 year old.



AFAIK that is correct for a U.S. National Parks. AFAIK it also covers the Appalachian Trail that is administered by the National Parks Service. I've never seen any regulation/law that prohibits carrying a concealed firearm in a NYS Park though. I've been in many NYS Parks and I would think they would be required to have warning signage posted at the entrance. Keep in mind many NYS Parks allow hunting/trapping too.

As you know you also have to be careful about the terms used for “firearms” in NY. The term firearm may have a different meaning then what is defined in the PL in some of the other codified laws in NY.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 10:37:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

AFAIK that is correct for a U.S. National Parks. AFAIK it also covers the Appalachian Trail that is administered by the National Parks Service. I've never seen any regulation/law that prohibits carrying a concealed firearm in a NYS Park though. I've been in many NYS Parks and I would think they would be required to have warning signage posted at the entrance. Keep in mind many NYS Parks allow hunting/trapping too.

As you know you also have to be careful about the terms used for “firearms” in NY. The term firearm may have a different meaning then what is defined in the PL in some of the other codified laws in NY.



OK, here ya go. Stopped by the place I used to work and picked up the most current copy they had of the Rules and Regs book I mentioned. This is dated July 1998.I can't find it on-line, but I'll reference a source and maybe you can find an on-line version to verify what I'll be typing here.

The book covers rules and regs of property under jurisdiction of the NYS OP&HP. They include Parts 370 through 378 of Chapter I of Subtitle I of Title 9 of the OCCRR of the State of NY ( 9 NYCRR 370-379)

Part 375 Prohibited Activities
Part 375.1 Activities absolutely prohibited.
(p) Firearms and weapons
(1) Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (2) of this subdivision, no person, other than a member of a Federal, State or municipal law enforcement agency, shall introduce or possess, either upon the person or within a vehicle, or use any firearm, or any instrument or weapon the propelling force of which is a spring, rubber or air or any ammunition or propellant therefor, or a bow and arow,except for hunting where permitted by a rule or regulation of a regional park, recreation and historic preservation commission or pursuant to a permit issued according to the provisions of section 376.1 (r) of this Title.

Paragraph (2) deals with armed security guards.
376.1(r) covers black powder weapons used in historical reenactments.

They no longer have the blurb about off duty officers surrendering their weapon at the office when entering the park. I am positive that language was part of the park rules and regs 25 years ago.

As far as the sign thing, I know some states have a requirement that areas be signed as a "no gun" area if that is to be enforced, but does NYS have such a requirement? I don't believe so. Even so, I recall that the parks 25 years ago DID have a big sign somewhere in the park about prohibited items or behaviors. Maybe at the Park Office. Its been a while.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 6:06:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2006 6:14:20 AM EDT by SteelonSteel]

Originally Posted By thirsty:
Actually, the Sportsmans license was created at the request of gun owners who wanted more than what was already offered. It allows us to transport to ranges for competition shooting or target practice, transport to and carry on camping, hiking or hunting trips either concealed or exposed on our person, so long as we aren't near populated areas. Of course, that's moot because I would like to carry in the Adirondacks, and as far as I know weapons aren't allowed without permission on state park land anyhow.

I love NY too.



No you're wrong or at least confusing state parks with state land. The parks (campgrounds outside of the blue line run by NYS Office of Parks) and DEC campgrounds don't allow you to carry/possess firearms unless specifically allowed (some exceptions during hunting seasons).

Other state lands such as state forests, state wild life management areas, state land (DEC signage that says just that "state land") are ok to carry on. Be advised that certain areas can have special regs that are more restrictive, especially WMA's. Your best bet is to read those little signs with the fine print.

SoS
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 6:52:15 AM EDT
Thanks TC, I'm still trying to find the buried regs. in 9 NYSRR online somewhere.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 12:36:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
Thanks TC, I'm still trying to find the buried regs. in 9 NYSRR online somewhere.



I've googled the section, and apparently SOME folks ARE cited for the section:

members.aol.com/miketben1/nationhunt.htm
p216.ezboard.com/fwampumchroniclescurrentevents.showMessage?topicID=806.topic
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 12:47:23 PM EDT
Actually, MOST agencies issue permits as a matter of course while the officer is going through the training. This is actually so that when the officer is off duty and they are carrying, the permit is there as well as the badge. I admit, there are some agencies that do not, but most of the ones I know do.

For the parks issue: the federal carry law that was passed a little bit ago (within the last 2 years) allows ANY on duty or off duty, even retired, LEO to carry ANYWHERE in the US unless federal law would prevent them in the first place, such as courts, schools, etc.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 3:01:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Longtime:
Actually, MOST agencies issue permits as a matter of course while the officer is going through the training. This is actually so that when the officer is off duty and they are carrying, the permit is there as well as the badge. I admit, there are some agencies that do not, but most of the ones I know do.



That seems a little odd that a police department would issue a department owned handgun to a recruit on a pistol permit and allow him/her to carry it while off-duty. In any case AFAIK you have to be a sworn officer to attend a MPTC certified PO school. I've never heard of a department that would issue a handgun to a recruit that had not attended the mandatory MPTC firearm training and qualified with their department. As a sworn officer of a PD you are exempt from the pistol licensing law so it still doesn't make any sense why a PD would require a recruit to have a pistol license in the first place for a department issued weapon.


Originally Posted By Longtime:
For the parks issue: the federal carry law that was passed a little bit ago (within the last 2 years) allows ANY on duty or off duty, even retired, LEO to carry ANYWHERE in the US unless federal law would prevent them in the first place, such as courts, schools, etc.



I don't think that's the case for retired out-of-state LEO's in NY or NJ. AFAIK they are still subject to any NY/NJ state laws or restrictions while in the state. AFAIK this includes the magazine limitations of the NY AWB. In NJ AFAIK you are still subject to the state magazine restrictions as well as the restriction on hollow point ammunition.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 4:37:52 PM EDT
I got my license through Yonkers before Westchester County took over that function. 6 Months, and the county judge signed off on it two months before they called me to pick it up.

When I moved to Dutchess, I had to reapply. 4 months for that one. You don't know how great it felt to walk into the Westchester County Clerks office and turn in my restriced and renewable license.

Now for my next trick, I have to somehow convince the wife we need to move out of NY, preferably to a Class III and SBR friendly state. She has caught on to me about the Dutchess unrestricted licenses.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 4:40:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
That seems a little odd that a police department would issue a department owned handgun to a recruit on a pistol permit and allow him/her to carry it while off-duty. In any case AFAIK you have to be a sworn officer to attend a MPTC certified PO school. I've never heard of a department that would issue a handgun to a recruit that had not attended the mandatory MPTC firearm training and qualified with their department. As a sworn officer of a PD you are exempt from the pistol licensing law so it still doesn't make any sense why a PD would require a recruit to have a pistol license in the first place for a department issued weapon.



I don't think that he means the dept would put the dept-owned weapon on the officers personal permit, since the officer doesn't "own" that issued equipment.


I don't think that's the case for retired out-of-state LEO's in NY or NJ. AFAIK they are still subject to any NY/NJ state laws or restrictions while in the state. AFAIK this includes the magazine limitations of the NY AWB. In NJ AFAIK you are still subject to the state magazine restrictions as well as the restriction on hollow point ammunition.


I hope thats not true. If they were bound by NYS gun laws, then technically they'd need the permit that NYS requires of its own non-LEO citizens.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 5:15:20 PM EDT
Other then the right to carry a concealed firearm in NY I don't believe it gives a retired LEO any other exemptions under the PL. The law says nothing about magazines or types of ammunition. AFAIK to do so would require an amendment to the PL.

The dumb ass police chiefs who want to ban hollow point ammunition in NY might want to rethink their position on the issue. That 's especially true in light of the fact that the only people it will restrict are the law abiding citizens who aren't shooting PO's.

www.state.nj.us/lps/njsp/about/fire_ret.html

"It should also be noted that, as civilians, retired officers cannot legally carry hollow-point ammunition or utilize high-capacity magazines restricted to law-enforcement use."

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