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Posted: 9/20/2011 3:00:39 PM EST
Let me explain my situation. I will soon be likely moving to PA for a period of 6 months (could be as much as a year). I would like to be able to purchase handguns while I'm living there. I've done some research and according to information I've found all I should need to do is bring my NJ drivers license along with my apartment lease showing current residency in PA. Is this correct? Are there any PA state laws that will prevent me from doing this?
Link Posted: 9/20/2011 5:56:20 PM EST
I see no one posted a reply so I'll give some guess work. I don't think it will be enough. I think a PA FFL will ask for a PA drivers license and owners card and things of that nature to show real residency.I don't think there is a residency time frame but do think the above will apply.

You should google any Pa gun shop and call and I am sure your question will be resolved as the answer has to be the same for all the state. As I see it your Jersey license shows residency and your rental agreement just shows temp residency. I am not even sure if one can have a 2 state drivers license. Good luck you have a good project ahead of you.
Link Posted: 9/20/2011 6:29:53 PM EST
I temp moved last year to Pa for a work project. They will not sell you a handgun unless you have a Pa drivers license or a Pa LTCF. I got lucky though and now live in Pa.
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 12:56:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2011 12:58:00 PM EST by mak0]
Originally Posted By kep8865:
I temp moved last year to Pa for a work project. They will not sell you a handgun unless you have a Pa drivers license or a Pa LTCF. I got lucky though and now live in Pa.


Did they give you a specific reason why? According to the ATF a person with residences in two states can buy handguns in whichever state they're currently living in.
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 1:36:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2011 1:38:00 PM EST by BSOG1]
you need to be a resident for at least three months as far as i know. just buy a handgun in your REAL home state.
or just wait till your squared away. FFL's don't like gray areas. can't blame them.
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 2:15:56 PM EST
I guess if you are living here, you should just go get a Pennsylvania ID card?
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 3:46:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By BSOG1:
you need to be a resident for at least three months as far as i know. just buy a handgun in your REAL home state.
or just wait till your squared away. FFL's don't like gray areas. can't blame them.


I think if you have a license at least that's not needed. Don't know if they check that if you're using some other proof or not.

My ex-fiancee didn't buy a handgun, but she was able to get a CCW just hours after getting her PA DL. She'd been living in the state a day or two at that time.
Link Posted: 9/22/2011 4:20:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By nickds:
I guess if you are living here, you should just go get a Pennsylvania ID card?


if you get a PA ID card, you will have to surrender your out-of-state DL for it. You would be better off changing your license over for the time being... your milage may vary.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 10:27:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2011 10:27:37 AM EST by HarmanFISTER]
Read the 4473. You have to show proof that you are a PA resident by providing either a deed to a house ofr3 months utility bills. My buddy just did this.

Link Posted: 9/23/2011 1:49:43 PM EST
my wife and i are mass residents and i cant buy in pa but she can. the only reason she can is she is active duty. any time we want a toy she has to show mil id mass license and a copy of orders plus utility bills and the last time the person on the phone (the one the dealer called, not the dealer themselves) wanted more so we had to show the reg to the car and the insurance which while we have mass plates they do show the pa address on them.

now i can get my pa ccw IF i go home to mass an renew my mass ccw and then apply for my pa one as an out of state resident but even with that i was told i still CANT buy any firearms myself, only the wife can UNLESS i get a pa id or license and im not giving up my mass one.


only 2 real ways to buy. eithe get pa license (easiest) or go through all the hoops in jersey to get everything you need to purchase in jersey. unless you have mil id there is no other way i know of. heck i have my dependent id and my air force id (i work for the air force) and liek i said, even i cant buy with all the bills, mortgage papers etc.
Link Posted: 9/25/2011 5:28:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By leonpiper69:
my wife and i are mass residents and i cant buy in pa but she can. the only reason she can is she is active duty. any time we want a toy she has to show mil id mass license and a copy of orders plus utility bills and the last time the person on the phone (the one the dealer called, not the dealer themselves) wanted more so we had to show the reg to the car and the insurance which while we have mass plates they do show the pa address on them.

now i can get my pa ccw IF i go home to mass an renew my mass ccw and then apply for my pa one as an out of state resident but even with that i was told i still CANT buy any firearms myself, only the wife can UNLESS i get a pa id or license and im not giving up my mass one.


only 2 real ways to buy. eithe get pa license (easiest) or go through all the hoops in jersey to get everything you need to purchase in jersey. unless you have mil id there is no other way i know of. heck i have my dependent id and my air force id (i work for the air force) and liek i said, even i cant buy with all the bills, mortgage papers etc.


The part in bold is not true. You can buy long guns to your hearts content. Pistols are a different story.
Link Posted: 9/25/2011 9:36:26 AM EST
FWIW, it's entirely up to the dealer. The law is only a guideline for a legal transaction.

If the dealer doesn't want to deal with the BS associated with a questionable residency, he's under no obligation to sell you a gun.
For many shops, including mine, the paperwork and potential problems associated with a questionable transaction, just are not worth the headaches for the small profit on a gun sale.

Also FWIW, there is no requirement to surrender an out of state drivers license in order to obtain a PA ID card.
http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/driverLicensePhotoIDCenter/obtainingPhotoID.shtml
Any Joe Bumblefuck can get an ID card.
This is why I will not sell to out of staters... period.

I've had too many NY residents come in my shop with a PA ID card claiming to be PA residents. Funny thing is, they still have a NY drivers license in their wallet... or sometimes NO drivers license at all... When questioned how they got to my shop, they always lie... saying: "Oh, I didn't drive." (After I just saw them get out of the car on my security cameras.)
Link Posted: 9/25/2011 9:47:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2011 9:59:45 AM EST by mak0]
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:Also FWIW, there is no requirement to surrender an out of state drivers license in order to obtain a PA ID card.
http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/driverLicensePhotoIDCenter/obtainingPhotoID.shtml
Any Joe Bumblefuck can get an ID card.


Are you sure about that? The form on the PA DMV website says you do have to surrender an out of state DL if you have one.

ETA: it seems like it's just going to be easier for me to get a PA drivers license and deal with the NJSP on changing my NJ firearms purchaser card to a non-resident one and than changing it back again when I move back. I was trying to avoid this since the process with anything firearm related in NJ is intentionally burdensome and a major pain in the ass and I'll have to go through it twice. Oh well.
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 2:40:20 PM EST
In order to purchase a firearm from an FFL in PA you MUST PASS THE PICS.

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_190926_339956_0_0_18/SP4-135_Information_Firearm_Purchasers_and_Safety-PG-2-10-2008.pdf

Q. What types of identification do I need to
purchase a firearm?

A. Dealers may accept any one of the following
documents as identification:
�� Valid photo drivers license or ID card.
�� Valid government-issued photo ID card.

Because Pennsylvania is a point of contact (POC) for the National Instant Check System (NICS), operational November 30, 1998, we
agree to do the federal firearms background check (Brady check) which requires a photo identification card.

Even though Pennsylvania law provides for non-photo ID for members of religious sects whose tenets forbid or discourage the taking of
photographs, it is now required that a form of government-issued photo ID be provided.

.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 11:07:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By damcv62:
Originally Posted By leonpiper69:
my wife and i are mass residents and i cant buy in pa but she can. the only reason she can is she is active duty. any time we want a toy she has to show mil id mass license and a copy of orders plus utility bills and the last time the person on the phone (the one the dealer called, not the dealer themselves) wanted more so we had to show the reg to the car and the insurance which while we have mass plates they do show the pa address on them.

now i can get my pa ccw IF i go home to mass an renew my mass ccw and then apply for my pa one as an out of state resident but even with that i was told i still CANT buy any firearms myself, only the wife can UNLESS i get a pa id or license and im not giving up my mass one.


only 2 real ways to buy. eithe get pa license (easiest) or go through all the hoops in jersey to get everything you need to purchase in jersey. unless you have mil id there is no other way i know of. heck i have my dependent id and my air force id (i work for the air force) and liek i said, even i cant buy with all the bills, mortgage papers etc.


The part in bold is not true. You can buy long guns to your hearts content. Pistols are a different story.


i just go by what they tell me. heck on the 4473 in the section about military it states what is required and it is way less (if memory serves)than what the dealers want. if i could find a dealer that knows me and woudl work with me i would probably buy more than build. i have been living in this state for almost two years now and it still kinda bugs me. i wish i could just buy w/ the pa ccw. you would think if you get that, that should be enough, but

Link Posted: 9/29/2011 1:08:49 PM EST
When I lived in NJ I would buy my long guns in PA with my TX DL. I never had a dealer turn me away. I only had a few ask me if I was in the military and even fewer ever asked for my mil ID (which I didn't mind showing since they tended to give me a discount afterwards). I did go to gun shows mostly and only bought one or two from their actual "brick and mortar" store.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 4:45:25 PM EST
Because unless you legally establish the fact that you are a resident of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, you do not get to enjoy the rights we have.
There is no debate, no grey area, no angles. Plain and simple. You CANNOT be a resident of another state, and a resident of Pennsylvana.
If you truly LIVE here, ergo pay state income tax etc. and have your residence here as your primary address you are required in a timely fashion to register your vehicle here and obtain a PADL. That is the bottom line.
We see tons of people from NJ and NY that own vacation property here and claim that because they have an address and pay property taxes they are residents. That is NOT how it works. I have a condo in VA, does that make me a resident?
If you do not believe me call the PSP. They will be happy to fill you in.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 12:46:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By nickds:
Because unless you legally establish the fact that you are a resident of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, you do not get to enjoy the rights we have.
There is no debate, no grey area, no angles. Plain and simple. You CANNOT be a resident of another state, and a resident of Pennsylvana.
If you truly LIVE here, ergo pay state income tax etc. and have your residence here as your primary address you are required in a timely fashion to register your vehicle here and obtain a PADL. That is the bottom line.
We see tons of people from NJ and NY that own vacation property here and claim that because they have an address and pay property taxes they are residents. That is NOT how it works. I have a condo in VA, does that make me a resident?
If you do not believe me call the PSP. They will be happy to fill you in.


mil do NOT have to do that. it makes no sense because when we move again (which we will) we would have to change everything again and again and again. so yeah we pay property taxes and we own a house but i will damned if you think you can make us do that sh*t.

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 2:49:56 AM EST
Good point. So you dont have to because of your situation.
But you are not considered a resident.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 4:21:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By leonpiper69:
Originally Posted By nickds:
Because unless you legally establish the fact that you are a resident of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, you do not get to enjoy the rights we have.
There is no debate, no grey area, no angles. Plain and simple. You CANNOT be a resident of another state, and a resident of Pennsylvana.
If you truly LIVE here, ergo pay state income tax etc. and have your residence here as your primary address you are required in a timely fashion to register your vehicle here and obtain a PADL. That is the bottom line.
We see tons of people from NJ and NY that own vacation property here and claim that because they have an address and pay property taxes they are residents. That is NOT how it works. I have a condo in VA, does that make me a resident?
If you do not believe me call the PSP. They will be happy to fill you in.


mil do NOT have to do that. it makes no sense because when we move again (which we will) we would have to change everything again and again and again. so yeah we pay property taxes and we own a house but i will damned if you think you can make us do that sh*t.



Leon, I hate to point this out, but you are not MIL. Your spouse is and the way the laws are written she does not need to obtain a PA DL, but unfortunately the laws do not affect the spouse (to my knowledge). It sucks. When I moved from NJ to PA I initially kept my TX DL and could have bought a handgun with legal proof of residency, but it was just easier to get my PA DL so I wouldn't have to always worry if I had proof of residency if I found a good deal somewhere that I normally didn't shop at.

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 11:04:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 11:05:33 AM EST by leonpiper69]
Originally Posted By Boomer10:
Originally Posted By leonpiper69:
Originally Posted By nickds:
Because unless you legally establish the fact that you are a resident of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, you do not get to enjoy the rights we have.
There is no debate, no grey area, no angles. Plain and simple. You CANNOT be a resident of another state, and a resident of Pennsylvana.
If you truly LIVE here, ergo pay state income tax etc. and have your residence here as your primary address you are required in a timely fashion to register your vehicle here and obtain a PADL. That is the bottom line.
We see tons of people from NJ and NY that own vacation property here and claim that because they have an address and pay property taxes they are residents. That is NOT how it works. I have a condo in VA, does that make me a resident?
If you do not believe me call the PSP. They will be happy to fill you in.


mil do NOT have to do that. it makes no sense because when we move again (which we will) we would have to change everything again and again and again. so yeah we pay property taxes and we own a house but i will damned if you think you can make us do that sh*t.



Leon, I hate to point this out, but you are not MIL. Your spouse is and the way the laws are written she does not need to obtain a PA DL, but unfortunately the laws do not affect the spouse (to my knowledge). It sucks. When I moved from NJ to PA I initially kept my TX DL and could have bought a handgun with legal proof of residency, but it was just easier to get my PA DL so I wouldn't have to always worry if I had proof of residency if I found a good deal somewhere that I normally didn't shop at.




that's why in my first post i pointed out MY WIFE IS ACTIVE. and i also pointed out that those mil rules for purchasing DONT apply to me. but i do not have to change my residency. it used to be us wives had to change res and get new licenses and all that, but they changed that about 3 or 4 yrs ago.

i still keep thinking about getting my pa license though, just so i can buy my own toys.
just makes me mad when people claim mil/dep should have to go through all those hoops.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 12:37:00 PM EST
I was only refrencing those "hoops" in regards to purchasing a handgun as a resident in the Commonwealth.
I apologize if I upset you.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 1:58:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By nickds:
I was only refrencing those "hoops" in regards to purchasing a handgun as a resident in the Commonwealth.
I apologize if I upset you.



not a big deal. just some people really piss me off about it. i have one neighbor who for whatever reason always makes snide comments about how by not getting a pa license and pa tags im not paying my fair share in pa and so on and so on. and some people think its no big deal just go get a new license but then we you figure you have 4 vehicle between you and the wife and and you may have change all this (titles, reg, etc) every time you move every few yrs, it gets old.

plus if you figur eif we had gotten IL stuff when she was stationed there and now we had to change something or replace a lost doc. etc. before getting the new stuff here, some stuff you cant always do online and then i would have to make a trip back to the midwest possibly. our family is in mass. we keep all our stuff in mass. we go home to visit and when we do we can deal with whatever we need while home visitng.

rant and hijack done

no harm nick
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:17:00 PM EST
You can always keep your vehicles registered in Mass but then get your DL in PA. I kept my old truck registered in TX until I bought my new truck (and every year when it comes time to get it inspected I wish I'd registered it in TX too ).
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