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Posted: 10/16/2008 10:42:30 AM EDT
I'm a student in PA so I still have my Louisiana residency and MUST keep it (not to get into too much detail but I need it to qualify for a post graduate program in Louisiana). I've purchased a rifle up here before a couple of years ago with no problem (an in-store purchase).

I'm in the market for an AR15 lower and I want something very specific so I want to order it and have an FFL receive the lower from the selling FFL. It was my understanding that you don't have to be a PA resident to purchase what is essentially a rifle. I gave a half hearted attempt at this a few months ago and the two plaes I called all they wanted was for me to come in and purchase an "equivalent" directly from them, they simply couldn't wrap their heads around the fact that I wanted a particular lower that they didn't carry.. I didn't even get to the point of being out of state.

Now that I have some time I'm giving this another shot and I called a shop in King of Prussia and the lady adamantly said that there's no way I can have this done b/c 1) they had to be the ones to order/purchase it and 2) I was out of state. Is this correct? Seems like it's not considering I can buy a rifle here and it just makes me think that she 1) doesn't think I can purchase any firearm in PA or 2) that she's giving me same BS b/c she wants me to purchase something of theirs.

If it is indeed ok for me to have a lower shipped from one FFL to an FFL in PA, does anyone know an FFL in the Philadelphia area that isn't going to try to BS me and make this so damn difficult and simply let me get what I want? I don't see why every dealer I've dealt with has been a royal pain in the ass. What is so awful about ripping me off $40 or so dollars just to handle some paperwork? If I were an FFL I'd be more than happy to take money for doing next to nothing and bringing a customer into the store who'll probably end up purchasing some piece of equipment while there anyway.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:25:19 AM EDT
[#1]
IF it is legal... (I think it is, but not sure)...

Call Dave @ Donley's he will handle the receipt of your lower
for around $50... call to get an exact price and to confirm.  He is also VERY willing to order you whatever you
want if he can get it.  If he can get it for you, that is ALWAYS going to be less hassle.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:35:53 AM EDT
[#2]
It is legal to sell a rifle to an out of state resident as long as the rifle is legal in that state. If you want to drive 2 hours I will do it for you but I think you should be able to find someone closer.  Depending on what lower you want the dealer might not be able to get it.  What is it that you’re looking for?
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 2:58:50 PM EDT
[#3]
it is legal, but some stores just dont allow it to cover their own butts bass pro being one of them, also heard of smaller shops doing the same
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 4:46:09 AM EDT
[#4]
What about handguns? I have an out of state liscence... do I need to get a PA liscence for handgun purchases?
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 4:52:42 AM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:
What about handguns? I have an out of state liscence... do I need to get a PA liscence for handgun purchases?


You need a PA license to purchase a handgun in PA. The only exception is if you are military and stationed in PA.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 4:57:33 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 6:28:05 AM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't see why every dealer I've dealt with has been a royal pain in the ass. What is so awful about ripping me off $40 or so dollars just to handle some paperwork? If I were an FFL I'd be more than happy to take money for doing next to nothing and bringing a customer into the store who'll probably end up purchasing some piece of equipment while there anyway.

.
I dont know what dealer you are using, but if you came into my store with that attitude I would not deal with you either.  If you think you are being ripped off, get your own FFL and then you can see how easy the paper work is.  You do realize that the dealer has to maintain that paperwork for the rest of his business life?  I think $40 is a little high too but that dealer is charging what he feels it is worth to him.  The paperwork is easy for you but the dealer has to do three times that much for your transfer and baby sit it forever under penalty of law.  Transfers are a service to your customer they are hardly worth the effort.  If you think this business is takes  "next to nothing" to do you are very mistaken.

BTW, I charge $20 for transfers, I will sell long guns to out of staters with valid id in their state, but I wont do one for you just based on your posts.

John
Seneca Arms Co



The way I read it, I don't think he was really complaining about the price as much as he couldn't find anyone to order a specific lower even though he was willing to pay the price.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 6:30:18 AM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
It is legal to sell a rifle to an out of state resident as long as the rifle is legal in that state. If you want to drive 2 hours I will do it for you but I think you should be able to find someone closer.  Depending on what lower you want the dealer might not be able to get it.  What is it that you’re looking for?


To elaborate on this with an example, as a Connecticut resident, I can't buy or possess a Sig 556 in CT because we still have an assault weapon ban that mimics the 1994 ban.  However, I could drive to PA, buy a Sig 556 and keep it in PA at a vacation home, etc. and that would be perfectly legal. You follow the laws of the state that you're in.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 6:42:13 AM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It is legal to sell a rifle to an out of state resident as long as the rifle is legal in that state. If you want to drive 2 hours I will do it for you but I think you should be able to find someone closer.  Depending on what lower you want the dealer might not be able to get it.  What is it that you’re looking for?


To elaborate on this with an example, as a Connecticut resident, I can't buy or possess a Sig 556 in CT because we still have an assault weapon ban that mimics the 1994 ban.  However, I could drive to PA, buy a Sig 556 and keep it in PA at a vacation home, etc. and that would be perfectly legal. You follow the laws of the state that you're in.


Good luck finding someone to sell it to you with a CT license.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 8:28:51 AM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
It is legal to sell a rifle to an out of state resident as long as the rifle is legal in that state. If you want to drive 2 hours I will do it for you but I think you should be able to find someone closer.  Depending on what lower you want the dealer might not be able to get it.  What is it that you’re looking for?


To elaborate on this with an example, as a Connecticut resident, I can't buy or possess a Sig 556 in CT because we still have an assault weapon ban that mimics the 1994 ban.  However, I could drive to PA, buy a Sig 556 and keep it in PA at a vacation home, etc. and that would be perfectly legal. You follow the laws of the state that you're in.


Good luck finding someone to sell it to you with a CT license.



Maybe I just deal with a lot more knowledgable FFLs than you do.  The law is the law and it's legal.  I lived in PA for nearly 30 years and have a number of what would be considered by CT to be "assault weapons" (in CT's eyes) stored back "home" in PA that are perfectly legal in PA and that I have owned for many years.  As long as I don't bring them into the state of CT, CT's laws have exactly zero influence.  CT can only control what's done in their state and their law concerns possession in that state.  Get it?

Do you follow NJ's state speed limit in PA?
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 10:04:04 AM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
It is legal to sell a rifle to an out of state resident as long as the rifle is legal in that state. If you want to drive 2 hours I will do it for you but I think you should be able to find someone closer.  Depending on what lower you want the dealer might not be able to get it.  What is it that you’re looking for?


To elaborate on this with an example, as a Connecticut resident, I can't buy or possess a Sig 556 in CT because we still have an assault weapon ban that mimics the 1994 ban.  However, I could drive to PA, buy a Sig 556 and keep it in PA at a vacation home, etc. and that would be perfectly legal. You follow the laws of the state that you're in.


Good luck finding someone to sell it to you with a CT license.



Maybe I just deal with a lot more knowledgable FFLs than you do.  The law is the law and it's legal.  I lived in PA for nearly 30 years and have a number of what would be considered by CT to be "assault weapons" (in CT's eyes) stored back "home" in PA that are perfectly legal in PA and that I have owned for many years.  As long as I don't bring them into the state of CT, CT's laws have exactly zero influence.  CT can only control what's done in their state and their law concerns possession in that state.  Get it?

Do you follow NJ's state speed limit in PA?


I follow NJ speed limit in NJ even with a PA LISCENSE. (At least I should)

It is illegal to sell a gun to a CT resident if the gun in illegal in CT even if he says it’s not leaving the state. I am an FFL and I would not sell it to you with a CT License. Read the paragraph below from the PA State Dealers news letter. Especially the part where it states “delivery and receipt complies with the conditions of both states."

Are there ways around this? Yes. Such as buying an upper and leaving it in the state of PA. However I know of no dealer that would sell you a banned gun in PA with a CT license. I wouldn’t want to be that dealer when they get audited.


"Under most circumstances, PA licensed firearm dealers
are permitted to sell long guns to residents from other
states as long as the buyer provides valid government
issued photo ID, completes the necessary paperwork,
passes the background check, and the sale, delivery and
receipt complies with the conditions of both states."
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 4:33:21 PM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
It is legal to sell a rifle to an out of state resident as long as the rifle is legal in that state. If you want to drive 2 hours I will do it for you but I think you should be able to find someone closer.  Depending on what lower you want the dealer might not be able to get it.  What is it that you’re looking for?


To elaborate on this with an example, as a Connecticut resident, I can't buy or possess a Sig 556 in CT because we still have an assault weapon ban that mimics the 1994 ban.  However, I could drive to PA, buy a Sig 556 and keep it in PA at a vacation home, etc. and that would be perfectly legal. You follow the laws of the state that you're in.


Good luck finding someone to sell it to you with a CT license.



Maybe I just deal with a lot more knowledgable FFLs than you do.  The law is the law and it's legal.  I lived in PA for nearly 30 years and have a number of what would be considered by CT to be "assault weapons" (in CT's eyes) stored back "home" in PA that are perfectly legal in PA and that I have owned for many years.  As long as I don't bring them into the state of CT, CT's laws have exactly zero influence.  CT can only control what's done in their state and their law concerns possession in that state.  Get it?

Do you follow NJ's state speed limit in PA?


I follow NJ speed limit in NJ even with a PA LISCENSE. (At least I should)

It is illegal to sell a gun to a CT resident if the gun in illegal in CT even if he says it’s not leaving the state. I am an FFL and I would not sell it to you with a CT License. Read the paragraph below from the PA State Dealers news letter. Especially the part where it states “delivery and receipt complies with the conditions of both states."

Are there ways around this? Yes. Such as buying an upper and leaving it in the state of PA. However I know of no dealer that would sell you a banned gun in PA with a CT license. I wouldn’t want to be that dealer when they get audited.


"Under most circumstances, PA licensed firearm dealers
are permitted to sell long guns to residents from other
states as long as the buyer provides valid government
issued photo ID, completes the necessary paperwork,
passes the background check, and the sale, delivery and
receipt complies with the conditions of both states."


At least according to the resources that I've spoken with, that's precisely the part that makes it legal to do so.  Connecticut's laws deal with possession within the State of Connecticut.  The exact language is "any person who, within this state, possesses" and that's why the "sale, delivery and receipt complies with the conditions of both states."

To be honest, I haven't actually gone forward with purchasing anything in this fashion, but before we moved to CT I had a lengthy discussion on this very topic with a number of FFL and LE friends who were curious about it too.  The discussion came from the fact that I was concerned at the time that Hillary might get elected and I commented that I wished that I could buy a few more "evil" rifles before that happened.  My main FFL who is a retired LEO said, "why can't you?" and there the discussion took off.  After all was said and done, multiple FFLs, active and retired LEOs, an attorney who specializes in firearms and several agencies chimed in.  

Bear in mind that I've known and done business with several of the FFL holders for more than 10 years and they also knew that I had all my family in PA, property in PA, and did almost all of my shooting in PA, so their "confidence level" was pretty high about the whole thing.  That said, if someone showed up off the street and wanted to buy something from you, I can understand why you'd have reservations about making the sale and that's absolutely your right.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 5:56:41 PM EDT
[#13]
www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#f2

F2) May a licensed dealer sell a firearm to a non-licensee who is a resident of another State? [Back]

Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensed dealer to a non-licensee who resides in a State other than the State in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensed dealer whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the dealer in his or her State of residence. In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee’s business premises is located in an over-the-counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.



[18 U.S.C. 922(b)(3)]
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 6:40:54 PM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:
www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#f2

F2) May a licensed dealer sell a firearm to a non-licensee who is a resident of another State? [Back]

Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensed dealer to a non-licensee who resides in a State other than the State in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensed dealer whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the dealer in his or her State of residence. In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee’s business premises is located in an over-the-counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.



[18 U.S.C. 922(b)(3)]


Exactly.  So how does it not comply as long as it's not possessed in the State of Connecticut?  By not possessing it in the banned state, you're complying with the Connecticut State law.  Keep it in PA and you're fine.  The operative language in the Connecticut law is "any person who, within this state, possesses".

EDIT TO ADD: One of the parties originally involved in this discussion called me a bit ago to talk about this again and we came to the conclusion that while it may be legal by technicality, it's probably a "slippery slope" issue that's best left untested!
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