Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 4/1/2006 5:13:56 AM EST
It is not and has never been illegal to carry in places that serve alcohol in Alabama, provided you are not an Alabama resident who's permit has been restricted by your local sheriff in that way.

Since out of state residents carrying on reciprocity have no such restrictions, they are good to go anywhere in the state on that issue. Alabama has a pre-emption clause, reserving the right to make laws concerning the carrying of firearms only to the state legislature. So no city, county, or other local entity can pass any rule or law restricting carry, or if they do, it cannot be enforced with penalties and it is basically meaningless.

The people who live in counties where the sheriff inscribes that restriction on their permit need to do what was done here in Shelby County about 25 years ago. Our permits were restricted, but a bunch of good NRA members got together and met with the sheriff to discuss the fact that he was bascially making most of the resturants in Birmingham a "vicitm disarmament zone" for us poor Shelby County residents since 95% of the resturants there serve alcohol. He saw it our way and changed our restriction to no longer allowing carry while "being under the influence" which is a much more sensible approach. His successors have all stuck with that approach as well.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 5:15:47 AM EST
once again, I am button incompetent... was trying to reply to that thread on carry where alcohol is served and somehow created a new thread..., they need a dashboard or skin with fewer buttons for us klutz users on this place....
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 5:19:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 2:48:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By billbotts:
Alabama has a pre-emption clause, reserving the right to make laws concerning the carrying of firearms only to the state legislature. So no city, county, or other local entity can pass any rule or law restricting carry, or if they do, it cannot be enforced with penalties and it is basically meaningless.



You're saying that no county entity can pass a rule restricting carry, but that's exactly what the sheriff does. Or are you only talking about restrictions for out-of-state permit holders?

Regarding the meeting with the sheriff, I called mine on Friday to discuss this. He was supposed to call me back. Ended up being someone else that called me, but I wasn't there to cake the call. I asked when I called if I could meet with him, but the lady on the phone said I could set it up when the sheriff called me back. I guess I'll call again Monday.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 5:38:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By Eight:
You're saying that no county entity can pass a rule restricting carry, .



Yes, read this from the code of Alabama:

Section 11-80-11
Regulation of gun shows, etc.; authority to bring or settle certain lawsuits reserved to Attorney General.
(a) No county or municipal corporation, instrumentality, or political subdivision thereof, by ordinance, resolution, or other enactment, shall regulate in any manner gun shows, the possession, ownership, transport, carrying, transfer, sale, purchase, licensing, registration or use of firearms, ammunition, components of firearms, firearms dealers, or dealers in firearm components.

(b)(1) Subsection (a) does not affect the authority a municipality has under law to regulate the discharge of firearms within the limits of the municipality or the authority a county has under law enacted prior to August 1, 2000, to regulate the discharge of firearms within the jurisdiction of the county.


Originally Posted By Eight: but that's exactly what the sheriff does. .


Not exactly, they do not and cannot "legislate", make rules for, or restrict the posession of a firearm of any licensed person present in his or her jurisdiction, only enforce AL law AND the restrictions, if any, that exist on the permits then encounter.

They (any Sheriff) can only restrict the permits that they PERSONALLY issue, meaning the residents of their own county. They must issue either an unlimited or a "qualified" license....it is their choice to issue those "qualified" licenses to the residents of their county that they drive the "not where alcohol is served" truck through the rules and restrict ONLY THE PERMITS THEY ISSUE, the restrictions they lay on "qualified" permit holders only apply to them, not out of state permit holders, not AL permit holders from another county, who are only subject to the restrictions in state law or the restrictions on their own "qualified" permits.

Section 13A-11-75
License to carry pistol in vehicle or concealed on person - Issuance; term; form; fee; revocation.
The sheriff of a county may, upon the application of any person residing in that county, issue a qualified or unlimited license to such person to carry a pistol in a vehicle or concealed on or about his person within this state for not more than one year from date of issue, ....... The sheriff may revoke a license upon proof that the licensee is not a proper person to be licensed.

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:15:44 PM EST
tag
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 5:53:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:33:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 10:46:10 PM EST by HardShell]

Originally Posted By billbotts:

Originally Posted By Eight:
You're saying that no county entity can pass a rule restricting carry, .



Yes, read this from the code of Alabama:

Section 11-80-11
Regulation of gun shows, etc.; authority to bring or settle certain lawsuits reserved to Attorney General.
(a) No county or municipal corporation, instrumentality, or political subdivision thereof, by ordinance, resolution, or other enactment, shall regulate in any manner gun shows, the possession, ownership, transport, carrying, transfer, sale, purchase, licensing, registration or use of firearms, ammunition, components of firearms, firearms dealers, or dealers in firearm components.

(b)(1) Subsection (a) does not affect the authority a municipality has under law to regulate the discharge of firearms within the limits of the municipality or the authority a county has under law enacted prior to August 1, 2000, to regulate the discharge of firearms within the jurisdiction of the county.


Originally Posted By Eight: but that's exactly what the sheriff does. .


Not exactly, they do not and cannot "legislate", make rules for, or restrict the posession of a firearm of any licensed person present in his or her jurisdiction, only enforce AL law AND the restrictions, if any, that exist on the permits then encounter.

They (any Sheriff) can only restrict the permits that they PERSONALLY issue, meaning the residents of their own county. They must issue either an unlimited or a "qualified" license....it is their choice to issue those "qualified" licenses to the residents of their county that they drive the "not where alcohol is served" truck through the rules and restrict ONLY THE PERMITS THEY ISSUE, the restrictions they lay on "qualified" permit holders only apply to them, not out of state permit holders, not AL permit holders from another county, who are only subject to the restrictions in state law or the restrictions on their own "qualified" permits.

Section 13A-11-75
License to carry pistol in vehicle or concealed on person - Issuance; term; form; fee; revocation.
The sheriff of a county may, upon the application of any person residing in that county, issue a qualified or unlimited license to such person to carry a pistol in a vehicle or concealed on or about his person within this state for not more than one year from date of issue, ....... The sheriff may revoke a license upon proof that the licensee is not a proper person to be licensed.




I read the use of "QUALIFIED" in the above statute differently than you do and, IMHO, two of the statutes above [11-80-11(a) & 13A-11-75] are in direct conflict. Note the part above in your quote that I put in red - the Sheriff may issue either a limited ("qualified") or unrestricted ("unlimited") license (I believe this usage describes two distinctly different types of licenses). If my reading is correct, this seems to support the legitimancy of Sheriff-imposed restrictions just as strongly as 11-80-11 refutes the same.

NOTE: I may be reading it wrong and you may be 100% correct in your interpretation - I've never seen an opinion one way or the other.

IMHO, 13A-11-75 ought to read "The sheriff of a county SHALL, upon the application of any QUALIFIED person residing in that county, issue AN UNLIMITED/UNRESTRICTED license..."



ETA: FWIW, I sincerely hope you are right & I am wrong (and that someone will manage to get a good AG opinion on all of this someday... )
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:41:27 PM EST
Hardshell, I don't really think we have much difference in interpretation of this mess. Those Sheriff's who use the "qualified" clause to issue onerous restrictions might well be found by a court to be doing something that another part of the code or the constitution does not permit them to do. But as best I can tell there is no case law yet, any attorney general opinion would not be binding, just advisory as best I can tell, a lawyer would have to research that for a while and I am not going to pay mine to since it does not impact me anyway.

Bottom line is the law appears to be silent on what constitutes reasonable restrictions or "qualifications" so the sheriff can bascially do what he wants until the legislature or a court says he/she cannot...

I am quite sure someone could test it by suing their sheriff over it. It has been done in some black belt counties back in the 80's when a sheriff just refused to issue permits at all and the person seeking it took him to court and won, by showing the sheriff did not demonstrate that "licensee is not a proper person to be licensed" and the court ordered the sheriff to issue it. I don't know the exact county but it was one of those places in SW AL some place.

But rather than paying lawyers and stuff, I am suggesting it is possible for someone in this negative circumstance by virtue of the county you live in, to calmly and rationally discuss it with their elected sheriff, write letters to the editor, etc. etc. and get it changed to a more reasonable restriction. This is not an anti-gun state, and I think many of them would respond favorably rather than deal with the political fallout when people start to realize that their sheriff, not Alabama state law, doesn't think they should be trusted with CCW in resturants...

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:43:31 PM EST
Section 11-80-11
Regulation of gun shows, etc.; authority to bring or settle certain lawsuits reserved to Attorney General.
(a) No county or municipal corporation, instrumentality, or political subdivision thereof, by ordinance, resolution, or other enactment, shall regulate in any manner gun shows, the possession, ownership, transport, carrying, transfer, sale, purchase, licensing, registration or use of firearms, ammunition, components of firearms, firearms dealers, or dealers in firearm components.

Does this statute even apply to Sheriffs? I'm pretty sure they are agents of the executive/state, and not a county or municipality or subdivision. While they are paid and supplied by counties, I'm pretty sure there are several cases which say that are not agents of the county. Thus, 11-80-11 might not restrict sheriffs at all....

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:56:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By Avtomat:
... Does this statute even apply to Sheriffs? I'm pretty sure they are agents of the executive/state, and not a county or municipality or subdivision. While they are paid and supplied by counties, I'm pretty sure there are several cases which say that are not agents of the county. Thus, 11-80-11 might not restrict sheriffs at all....



Good point, and one that never crossed my mind.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 8:53:01 PM EST
You know, I just read mine from Elmore county and it says I cannot carry in a place that serves alcohol or while intoxicated. It also says that it's only valid in the State of Alabama. Does that mean if I'm in TN and a LEO who is not up on all the latest agreements could give me a hard time? Or does it mean that the sheriff has the power to make it a permit only good in Alabama?

I rarely carry due to the fact that I cannot carry where I work, not even in the parking lot. Either way, it does make me wonder. I was thinking of carrying the next time I go up to TN to visit family.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 4:00:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By atriusofbricia:
It also says that it's only valid in the State of Alabama. Does that mean if I'm in TN and a LEO who is not up on all the latest agreements could give me a hard time? Or does it mean that the sheriff has the power to make it a permit only good in Alabama?


Technically, I believe it is only valid in AL. However, a state can say which permits it will honor. TN will honor an AL permit, as will AL honor a TN permit. I guess an LEO could give you a hard time, and that's about it, as long as you aren't doing anything unlawful. You are okay carrying in TN. Check the sticky above about which states will honor your AL permit.
Top Top