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Posted: 9/9/2013 9:24:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2013 10:17:36 AM EST by cardonasharp]
Just moved to Pa and I need two residents from Pa. Can any one help me. Must live in Carbon county
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 10:37:33 AM EST
Can't help you with a reference, but the county is in violation of the laws governing the procedure to obtain a LTCF. Nothing says a reference has to be from the same county or even from the same state. The law says the application must be uniform throughout the state! Of course, you would have to sue the county in order to prove/win your case.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 12:46:33 PM EST
I highly doubt they even check them.

I forgot mine, so at the time of application i wrote down my neighbors addy's. neither of them asked me about it. My card was issued 10 minutes later and I walked out with it.


Link Posted: 9/9/2013 3:05:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2013 3:05:59 PM EST by Schlange]
I'm not buying the BS they gave you about having to live in Carbon Co.
If you want to use me as a reference shoot me an IM.

ETA: Welcome to PA, change your state info!
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 4:27:31 PM EST
I changed my infor thanks
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 4:29:26 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Schlange:
I'm not buying the BS they gave you about having to live in Carbon Co.
If you want to use me as a reference shoot me an IM.

ETA: Welcome to PA, change your state info!
View Quote

I changed it thanks
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 8:05:51 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Steve_in_PA:
Can't help you with a reference, but the county is in violation of the laws governing the procedure to obtain a LTCF. Nothing says a reference has to be from the same county or even from the same state. The law says the application must be uniform throughout the state! Of course, you would have to sue the county in order to prove/win your case.
View Quote


They did the same thing to me...in Chester county. The sgt. who was looking at my form started yelling at me when he saw neither of my references were from Chester county. Made a quick phone call to get some info from a buddy and just added it to the form right there. I was fucking pissed at the way the sgt. was treating me, but I wasn't about to go apeshit in the sheriff's office. The form says they 'prefer' references from the same county, not the same as 'require'
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:45:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2013 11:09:22 AM EST by Steve_in_PA]
The "prefer" is an illegal alteration. Law states that the application form must be uniform, throughout the State and the uniformity is set by the PA State Police, not the municipality.

(c) FORM OF APPLICATION AND CONTENT. — The application for a license to carry a firearm shall be uniform throughout this Commonwealth and shall be on a form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. The form may contain provisions, not exceeding one page, to assure compliance with this section. Issuing authorities shall use only the application form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. One of the following reasons for obtaining a firearm license shall be set forth in the application: self-defense, employment, hunting and fishing, target shooting, gun collecting or another proper reason. The application form shall be dated and signed by the applicant and shall contain the following statement:

I have never been convicted of a crime that prohibits me from possessing or acquiring a firearm under Federal or State law. I am of sound mind and have never been committed to a mental institution. I hereby certify that the statements contained herein are true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. I understand that, if I knowingly make any false statements herein, I am subject to penalties prescribed by law. I authorize the sheriff, or his designee, or, in the case of first class cities, the chief or head of the police department, or his designee, to inspect only those records or documents relevant to information required for this application. If I am issued a license and knowingly become ineligible to legally possess or acquire firearms, I will promptly notify the sheriff of the county in which I reside or, if I reside in a city of the first class, the chief of police of that city.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:56:18 AM EST
This is cut from Luzerne County's application. Notice it does NOT say anything about references having to be from the same county or even from the same state. The only statement on the application form says that they cannot be family members.

Link Posted: 9/10/2013 1:14:45 PM EST
So then, the next time I have to renew, do you think it's worth 'arguing' over?
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:06:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARBarsh:
So then, the next time I have to renew, do you think it's worth 'arguing' over?
View Quote



Depends whether or not your references are from outside the county or not. If it was me, I'd make a very, very big stink about it. They expect everyone else to follow the law, but while they themselves ignore it!
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 5:49:39 AM EST
I'm in Lebanon County. My references are from outside of the county. Always have been, it's never been an issue.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 5:57:02 AM EST
The carbon county sherrif wont process it without your references being from carbon county.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 10:09:04 AM EST
They won't change their illegal ways unless it is thrown in their face, politely and correctly done of course.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 2:11:37 PM EST
That is not right at all. I do not know anyone from Carbon county.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 3:57:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/11/2013 3:58:38 PM EST by ARBarsh]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cardonasharp:
That is not right at all. I do not know anyone from Carbon county.
View Quote


Maybe you can find the exact law that show their practices violate state law and call the sheriff on his BS....the form should say 'prefer', maybe simply pointing that out will show them of their wrong-doing. I had considered this when I got mine, but was so fucking pissed from being bitched out that I just wanted to get out of there ASAP. Maybe you can call someone at the local State Police as well, I don't know, I'm just spitballing here...definitely want to know what the outcome is though since mine comes up for renewal in a little over a year.

ETA: Steve seems to know his shit, maybe he can provide the precise reference you're looking for
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 8:21:27 PM EST
I posted the section from the statute above, but I'll post it again. Also make note that not having references from within the county or state is NOT, repeat NOT a reason to deny a sheriff from issuing the license. And, if the sheriff refuses to issue the license, he is supposed to notify the person in writing as to why it was refused!!

Title 18
§ 6109.Licenses.
(a) PURPOSE OF LICENSE. — A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one’s person or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth.

(b) PLACE OF APPLICATION. — An individual who is 21 years of age or older may apply to a sheriff for a license to carry a firearm concealed on or about his person or in a vehicle within this Commonwealth. If the applicant is a resident of this Commonwealth, he shall make application with the sheriff of the county in which he resides or, if a resident of a city of the first class, with the chief of police of that city
.
(c) FORM OF APPLICATION AND CONTENT. — The application for a license to carry a firearm shall be uniform throughout this Commonwealth and shall be on a form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. The form may contain provisions, not exceeding one page, to assure compliance with this section. Issuing authorities shall use only the application form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. One of the following reasons for obtaining a firearm license shall be set forth in the application: self-defense, employment, hunting and fishing, target shooting, gun collecting or another proper reason. The application form shall be dated and signed by the applicant and shall contain the following statement:

I have never been convicted of a crime that prohibits me from possessing or acquiring a firearm under Federal or State law. I am of sound mind and have never been committed to a mental institution. I hereby certify that the statements contained herein are true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. I understand that, if I knowingly make any false statements herein, I am subject to penalties prescribed by law. I authorize the sheriff, or his designee, or, in the case of first class cities, the chief or head of the police department, or his designee, to inspect only those records or documents relevant to information required for this application. If I am issued a license and knowingly become ineligible to legally possess or acquire firearms, I will promptly notify the sheriff of the county in which I reside or, if I reside in a city of the first class, the chief of police of that city.

(d) SHERIFF TO CONDUCT INVESTIGATION. — The sheriff to whom the application is made shall:
(1) investigate the applicant’s record of criminal conviction;
(2) investigate whether or not the applicant is under indictment for or has ever been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment exceeding one year;
(3) investigate whether the applicant’s character and reputation are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety;
(4) investigate whether the applicant would be precluded from receiving a license under subsection (e)(1) or section 6105(h) (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms); and
(5) conduct a criminal background, juvenile delinquency and mental health check following the procedures set forth in section 6111 (relating to sale or transfer of firearms), receive a unique approval number for that inquiry and record the date and number on the application.

(e) ISSUANCE OF LICENSE. —
(1) A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one’s person or in a vehicle and shall be issued if, after an investigation not to exceed 45 days, it appears that the applicant is an individual concerning whom no good cause exists to deny the license. A license shall not be issued to any of the following:
(i) An individual whose character and reputation is such that the individual would be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety.
(ii) An individual who has been convicted of an offense under the act of April 14, 1972 (P.L. 233, No. 64), known as The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act.
(iii) An individual convicted of a crime enumerated in section 6105.
(iv) An individual who, within the past ten years, has been adjudicated delinquent for a crime enumerated in section 6105 or for an offense under The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act.
(v) An individual who is not of sound mind or who has ever been committed to a mental institution.
(vi) An individual who is addicted to or is an unlawful user of marijuana or a stimulant, depressant or narcotic drug.
(vii) An individual who is a habitual drunkard.
(viii) An individual who is charged with or has been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year except as provided for in section 6123 (relating to waiver of disability or pardons).
(ix) A resident of another state who does not possess a current license or permit or similar document to carry a firearm issued by that state if a license is provided for by the laws of that state, as published annually in the Federal Register by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury under 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(19) (relating to definitions).
(x) An alien who is illegally in the United States.
(xi) An individual who has been discharged from the armed forces of the United States under dishonorable conditions.
(xii) An individual who is a fugitive from justice. This subparagraph does not apply to an individual whose fugitive status is based upon nonmoving or moving summary offense under Title 75 (relating to vehicles).
(xiii) An individual who is otherwise prohibited from possessing, using, manufacturing, controlling, purchasing, selling or transferring a firearm as provided by section 6105.
(xiv) An individual who is prohibited from possessing or acquiring a firearm under the statutes of the United States.
(3) The license to carry a firearm shall be designed to be uniform throughout this Commonwealth and shall be in a form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. The license shall bear the following:
(i) The name, address, date of birth, race, sex, citizenship, height, weight, color of hair, color of eyes and signature of the licensee.
(ii) The signature of the sheriff issuing the license.
(iii) A license number of which the first two numbers shall be a county location code followed by numbers issued in numerical sequence.
(iv) The point-of-contact telephone number designated by the Pennsylvania State Police under subsection (l).
(v) The reason for issuance.
(vi) The period of validation.
(4) The sheriff shall require a photograph of the licensee on the license. The photograph shall be in a form compatible with the Commonwealth Photo Imaging Network.
(5) The original license shall be issued to the applicant. The first copy of the license shall be forwarded to the Pennsylvania State Police within seven days of the date of issue. The second copy shall be retained by the issuing authority for a period of seven years. Except pursuant to court order, both copies and the application shall, at the end of the seven-year period, be destroyed unless the license has been renewed within the seven-year period.

(f) TERM OF LICENSE. —
(1) A license to carry a firearm issued under subsection (e) shall be valid throughout this Commonwealth for a period of five years unless extended under paragraph (3) or sooner revoked.
(2) At least 60 days prior to the expiration of each license, the issuing sheriff shall send to the licensee an application for renewal of license. Failure to receive a renewal application shall not relieve a licensee from the responsibility to renew the license.
(3) Notwithstanding paragraph (1) or any other provision of law to the contrary, a license to carry a firearm that is held by a member of the United States Armed Forces or the Pennsylvania National Guard on Federal active duty and deployed overseas that is scheduled to expire during the period of deployment shall be extended until 90 days after the end of the deployment.
(4) Possession of a license, together with a copy of the person’s military orders showing the dates of overseas deployment, including the date that the overseas deployment ends, shall constitute, during the extension period specified in paragraph (3), a defense to any charge filed pursuant to section 6106 (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) or 6108 (relating to carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia).

(g) GRANT OR DENIAL OF LICENSE. — Upon the receipt of an application for a license to carry a firearm, the sheriff shall, within 45 days, issue or refuse to issue a license on the basis of the investigation under subsection (d) and the accuracy of the information contained in the application. If the sheriff refuses to issue a license, the sheriff shall notify the applicant in writing of the refusal and the specific reasons. The notice shall be sent by certified mail to the applicant at the address set forth in the application.
Link Posted: 9/12/2013 3:47:29 PM EST
I am fairly positive both my references weren't even from Pa, since I didn't know anyone when I moved up here. York county.
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