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Posted: 8/24/2004 3:29:22 PM EST
what is the law with rifles? i cant remember? is it 30 inches? or 26inches? or other? im looking at getting a nice new colt with a collaspable stock and the m4 version is under 30 inchs, would that be legal here in michigan?
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:39:48 PM EST
im confused off the ATFs website for michigan gun laws it says...

""Pistol" means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 30 inches or less in length..."

but 6 paragraphs later it says....

""Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having 1 or more barrels less than 16 inches in length.... weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches."

now i know SBRs are a no no in michigan, but if i have a rifle with a 16inch barrel, and overall length of greater than 26 inches and less than 30 inches, is this considered a pistol? Must i get a purchase permit to buy it?

but a paragraph earler it defines a rifle as a "firearm designed or rededesigned, made or redmade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder..."


so which is it? is a colt ar-15 under 30 inches but greater than 26 a rifle or a pistol in michigan?
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 1:37:34 AM EST

www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10953--,00.html



16. Do rifles or shotguns with collapsible/folding stocks have to be registered in Michigan?

MCL 750.222 Yes, provided the rifle or shotgun is 30 inches or less in overall length with the stock collapsed/folded but at least 26 inches and the barrel length is at least 16 inches and 18 inches respectively. Attorney General’s opinion #6280: if the firearm is less than 26 inches in overall length or the barrel is less than 16 or 18 inches respectively, the firearm is considered a short-barreled rifle or shotgun and is illegal to possess. MCL 750.224d There is an exception for short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles which the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has found to be a curio, relic, antique, museum piece, or collector’s item not likely to be used as a weapon.



The possessor must comply with Section 2 (License to Purchase) and Section 9 (Safety Inspection Certificate/registration) of Act 372.




The key to the whole thing is the collapsible stock... If you have a collapsible stock and the OAL of the weapon is under 30" with the stock collapsed, you'll have to do the green purchase permit then the safety inspection just as if it were a handgun...

I've got single shot rifles that are under 30" but still over 26", and since the don't have collapsible stocks they're good to go and considered rifles... goofy, eh?

Link Posted: 8/25/2004 5:38:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By Guntoting_Spartan:
im confused off the ATFs website for michigan gun laws it says...

""Pistol" means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 30 inches or less in length..."

but 6 paragraphs later it says....

""Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having 1 or more barrels less than 16 inches in length.... weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches."

now i know SBRs are a no no in michigan, but if i have a rifle with a 16inch barrel, and overall length of greater than 26 inches and less than 30 inches, is this considered a pistol? Must i get a purchase permit to buy it?

but a paragraph earler it defines a rifle as a "firearm designed or rededesigned, made or redmade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder..."


so which is it? is a colt ar-15 under 30 inches but greater than 26 a rifle or a pistol in michigan?



First, I don't hink a tele- stock AR even with a 16" barrel is under 30". I have one (pre-ban) and it isn't under 30" long, even with the flash hider removed.

Even if it was, it doesn't make it a pistol it just makes you have to register it as a pistol in MI.

Second, if you bought an under 30" rifle with a folder from a dealer, they are supposed to ask for purchase permit before selling it to you.

Third, if you just have it or bought it from someone, you would simple take it and get an safety inspection card for it.

Forth, I know some people think it stupid to have to register a rifle as a pistol, but it was a way for the legislature to appease the gun banners. Where many states ban AWs across the board, MI just makes you register the folding stocked ones as pistols.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:16:34 AM EST
So we're all good to go with our telestocked AR's and 16" barrels on the 13th--right? I guess otherwise there'd be a ton of people already complaining about how they had to register their prebans.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:26:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Vapour:
So we're all good to go with our telestocked AR's and 16" barrels on the 13th--right? I guess otherwise there'd be a ton of people already complaining about how they had to register their prebans.



yes, a 16 inch barrel, and a collapsable stock on an ar is over 30 inches so it will not need to be registered
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:59:33 AM EST
One more thught on this:

I am planning a build, an underfolder AK(from a polish parts kit) to celebrate the AWB sunset. The barrel is 16". but with the stock folded, I think it will be more like 25". Will this be a Pistol, just a regular long gun, or a SBR?

Man this is confusing.
Thanks,
Echap in West Michigan
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 4:04:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By echap:
One more thught on this:

I am planning a build, an underfolder AK(from a polish parts kit) to celebrate the AWB sunset. The barrel is 16". but with the stock folded, I think it will be more like 25". Will this be a Pistol, just a regular long gun, or a SBR?

Man this is confusing.
Thanks,
Echap in West Michigan



What's confusing about it? Less than 26" = SBR, which is a no-no in MI.

If you put a flash hider on it and bring it over 26" when folded you can register it as a pistol.

Link Posted: 9/11/2004 5:19:40 PM EST
Gun registration

Safety inspection cards

Purchase permits

Sounds like Europe

Link Posted: 9/16/2004 9:27:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 9:30:18 AM EST by Archangel6]
Too bad I'm right at 29 3/4 on my AR....DAMN!!!

MI has an overall Barrel length law regardless of total overall weapon length I believe....

Rob

Link Posted: 9/16/2004 12:47:21 PM EST
According to Bushmaster's website, a carbine with a telestock measures 31.75 inches with the stock collapsed.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 3:24:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By Archangel6:
Too bad I'm right at 29 3/4 on my AR....DAMN!!!

MI has an overall Barrel length law regardless of total overall weapon length I believe....

Rob




Rifle barrels have to be at least 16" regardless of overall length.

How can your AR be under 30"?
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:08:48 AM EST
I measured it with the brake removed....I've sold my 14.5 in favor for a full 16" so I don't have to premanently attach a brake....I want options!

Rob

Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:20:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Archangel6:
Too bad I'm right at 29 3/4 on my AR....DAMN!!!

MI has an overall Barrel length law regardless of total overall weapon length I believe....

Rob



Buy it as is, register it as a pistol, and carry it in your car loaded under your CPL.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 11:04:39 PM EST
I have two folders i was going to bulit after the ban, A polish underfolder and russian PLO from joknig.

They both mesure25 3/4a'' foloded with slant brakes install.

What are my opions to gert ii up to 26" so I CAN register it as a pistol.

a longer MB pinnred on>?
a barrel extension


What else........somdoby must have con through this beforel
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:39:30 AM EST
do they make a stock spacer to make the stock longer?
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 5:07:08 PM EST
How about an AR-15 with the 4 position CAR stock, a 14.5 inch barrel, with a perminetly attached flash suppressor bringing it out to legallength under Federal law?....

As for the AK's no no stock spacers for AK's, and if the slant break isn't long enough then theres a few options, 1 get a spetialy redisighned break that brings it out to legal length but still looks like the origional, 2 put the origional on loosly so it's still out to legal length and pin it like that, 3 weld a small steel pin to the front of the break so that the end of the pin is out to legal length, 4 fold the stock then weld a pin to the back of the stock, or back of the reciever so that the total length when folded is still legal, 5 use an AK-74 break, if your going for correctness just build an AK-74 to begin with....
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 11:32:59 AM EST
Would a tapco barrel extension for an AMD 63 fit???
I could solder it on and cut it back to just over 26" and re thread it.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 5:52:05 PM EST
Rememberer you have 30 dates to register it after the build. A hose clamp on a AK folder will make you legal.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 2:49:20 AM EST
My 14.5 inch barrel with Permanently attached Phantom FH w/ 4 pos collapsible stock is over 30". I can't figure out how you could have an AR with a 16" barrel and be under 30". I don't think that it's possible.

I pinned open my Chinese under-folder to get it over 30". I would rather not have to register it with some funky thing on the end of the barrel, even though it defeats the purpose of the under-folder.

Pete
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 3:07:38 AM EST


Buy it as is, register it as a pistol, and carry it in your car loaded under your CPL.

hey, I had to register my topnotched USC with folder as it falls out at 26.5" folded.

I was thinking the AR pistol could be "carried" under my cpl, but the USC/UMP conversion fits that catagory now too!! woohoo!

Not that I see the need to have a folding stock rifle/pistol as a carry gun, it would make it convienent for transport.

oh, and why "unloaded"?
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 7:44:06 PM EST
So what is to stop someone from registering a underfolder AK as a pistol and then carring it concealed?
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 7:59:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Vonlflak:
So what is to stop someone from registering a underfolder AK as a pistol and then carring it concealed?



nothing

but the barrel has to be 16 inches, if it is under 16 and has a stock on it, it is considered to be an sbr

rifles can be short in the stock area, but not the barrel in MI

pistol ar's can be made, but add the stock and you add ten years to your prison term....
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:43:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By avengeusa:

Originally Posted By Vonlflak:
So what is to stop someone from registering a underfolder AK as a pistol and then carring it concealed?



nothing

but the barrel has to be 16 inches, if it is under 16 and has a stock on it, it is considered to be an sbr

rifles can be short in the stock area, but not the barrel in MI

pistol ar's can be made, but add the stock and you add ten years to your prison term....



You really should read the rest of this thread.....

A rifle to be registered as a pistol also has to have an overall length of over 26". Most underfolders are less than 26" unless you put a flash hider/muzzle comp on them. MI considers less than 26" a SBR regardless of barrel length.
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