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Posted: 5/19/2005 3:58:14 PM EDT
With passage of the new law and the Pawlenty's promise of signing, I am looking to take a class quickly and apply!!!!

ANyone have a good recomendation??? I am a member over in Oakdale and I know that they have classes now and then. Frankly, I am looking for a shorter course, one maybe geared more towards experienced shooters instead of a two day classroom experience geared towards brand new shooters. Before the flames commence, believe me, after being a range officer at public ranges, I am a strong supporter or some shooters taking a looooooooooooooong safety course ; )

I am just hoping that there is a shorter version out there somewhere??? If not, so be it.

Let me know your recomendations....

Link Posted: 5/19/2005 4:14:20 PM EDT
Defensive Edge Handgun 1 is the route I suggest. It's an 8 hour course but only the first couple hours are classroom. The classroom stuff is important (legal and safety stuff) but the shooting is where this class really stands out. Expect to fire 300 rounds with a 50 round qualifacation at the end of the day. Holster work is covered as well as fundamentals that WILL improve your shooting.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 7:56:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 7:57:23 PM EDT by Paulie]
Del-Tone has several classes available starting as early as next wed. One day, 6 hours. Give me a call at 320-251-9873
Paulie
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 7:59:06 PM EDT
anyone know of classes in SE Minnesota? My neighbor is thinking of getting one
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:06:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:
anyone know of classes in SE Minnesota? My neighbor is thinking of getting one



Take the time to drive.
The Defensive Esdge classes are the only ones I've seen that you actually have a chance to fail. To me this is a very big +
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 5:25:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2005 5:59:46 AM EDT by mnblaster]
There are plenty of choices nice and close in the St. Paul/ MPLS, call Bills, Burnsville Pistol, or any gun shop, they can help you out. Being an experienced shooter you can take a course that spends more time on MN and Federal laws that concern a CCW holder vs. doing alot of range time that you do on your own anyway. The classroom dicussions and scenerios were the most interesting part for me.

http://www.plusp.com
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 6:11:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2005 6:15:11 AM EDT by rn22723]
I took a PlusPInc course and it was very lacking! I learned that some people can tell a lot of BS! It was a lot of BS. Daryl was never LEO in MN. If I want war stories I can just call up a few coworkers. If you want range time, and MN perspective then do yourself a favor. Take Handgun I from DE. Sully teaches the right stuff! It is more important to gain psychomotor skills then to talk and talk. The reasoning is that what you PRACTICE is what YOU WILL DO UNDER STRESS! And, if you think too much about something you will get yourself in trouble. And when the situation deteriorates the BS stops! It is time to deal with things!
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 7:12:44 AM EDT
Plus P was just an example of whats out there. I believe Daryl has passed away. My point is that the laws you will have to deal with and the criteria involved in a shooting situation as far as the courts see it are very important and have to be understood before the gun is pulled and the trigger is touched off. If you have the time and money and want to travel up to St. Cloud go ahead but it isn't required for a MN CCW.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 7:13:44 AM EDT
I took the PlusP course and walked out halfway through.

It was awful.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 8:10:44 AM EDT
+1 for D.E. we talk about sullys classes because we believe in them, it is easy to talk about things you believe in. We dont get kickbacks we pay every time we go and it is the best money I have spent.

The begining of the class is covering the laws and Q&A about what ever senarios you want.That is where Sullys no nonsense aproach will shine,very practical no BS.

And then............ you shoot 300 plus rounds from concealment witch most places do not,how are you learning to carry concealed and not drawing from concealment? 50 round qualify enuf said.

Link Posted: 5/20/2005 10:04:26 AM EDT
OP wanted a quick and dirty way to get set up for the CCW requirement. I believe we're in the same boat. Missed my chance last time around (Pharmacy Boards), and won't make the same mistake twice. Looking to get into a class ASAFP and get the paper in my hot little hands. I'll probably go over to Bill's to get it done.

I fully intend to take advantage of DE once my residency is done in 2 months. The posters on this board have said enough good things to warrant at least a look. However, the only Handgun 1 offered in the near future on a weekend is over an already planned SD Prairie dog shoot.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 8:22:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2005 8:22:55 PM EDT by Brick]
2 locations to serve you now.

Bill's North -763-792-4867

Bill's Robinsdale -763-533-9594

www.billsgs.com

Brick



made link hot
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 8:44:50 PM EDT
I think one of the big things I carried away from the Defensive Edge first hand gun class was "If you shoot the bad guy, it will cost you about $20,000 in attoneys fees."

That was an eye opener.

There is no BS in the carrying of a firearm.

I didn't think of that before..... I do now... and I still carry...... Yes it is that important
(Yes I do have a gun friendly lawyer now.)
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 9:17:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2005 9:48:30 PM EDT by jem375]

Originally Posted By Dave_Pendleton:
I took the PlusP course and walked out halfway through.

It was awful.

Really?
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 10:18:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jem375:

Originally Posted By Dave_Pendleton:
I took the PlusP course and walked out halfway through.

It was awful.

Really?



Yes, really.

What is it you were looking for?
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 1:59:37 AM EDT
Yeah JEM 375 it is pure unadulterated BS from PlusPInc. Daryl only talked about BS. I do not call 50 rounds thrown down range with no respect to form or presentation adequate training. Sully was running a line of many shooters the day I took HG1. He took time with a rank novice, not me, to bring up to speed. I got nothing from Daryl except war stories. Embellished ones at that. And, if you don't believe go ask Roger at BVP. I only stayed cause I wanted to shoot!

There was never the consideration of who to call after an incident as Sully points out. Having been around some people who lawfully have employed lethal force, I know for fact that the incident will scar you in more ways then one.

A person can not learn from "What If's" in a classroom. You have to master the psychomotor skills. That means actual practice. Hands on!

I saw someone from MN looking for Front Sight information. Gee traveling all the way to Lo$t Wage$ to go to a shooting school? I sure would thing that supporting a MN company would be better. Be it BGS, DE, or Del-Tone.

Originally Posted By jem375:

Originally Posted By Dave_Pendleton:
I took the PlusP course and walked out halfway through.

It was awful.

Really?

Link Posted: 5/21/2005 5:12:03 AM EDT
Brick et al....

Thanks, I signed up for a course at Bill's in about two weeks. Thanks. Maybe when I have more time I'll take the DE course. It does sound good, but St. Cloud is a haul for me right now with my current work schedlue.

Thanks
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 6:05:51 AM EDT
D.E classes are at princetion I think it's shorter of a drive.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 9:02:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2005 10:40:16 AM EDT by jem375]

Originally Posted By Dave_Pendleton:

Originally Posted By jem375:

Originally Posted By Dave_Pendleton:
I took the PlusP course and walked out halfway through.

It was awful.

Really?



Yes, really.

What is it you were looking for?

deleted
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 9:04:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rn22723:
Yeah JEM 375 it is pure unadulterated BS from PlusPInc. Daryl only talked about BS. I do not call 50 rounds thrown down range with no respect to form or presentation adequate training. Sully was running a line of many shooters the day I took HG1. He took time with a rank novice, not me, to bring up to speed. I got nothing from Daryl except war stories. Embellished ones at that. And, if you don't believe go ask Roger at BVP. I only stayed cause I wanted to shoot!

There was never the consideration of who to call after an incident as Sully points out. Having been around some people who lawfully have employed lethal force, I know for fact that the incident will scar you in more ways then one.

A person can not learn from "What If's" in a classroom. You have to master the psychomotor skills. That means actual practice. Hands on!

I saw someone from MN looking for Front Sight information. Gee traveling all the way to Lo$t Wage$ to go to a shooting school? I sure would thing that supporting a MN company would be better. Be it BGS, DE, or Del-Tone.

Originally Posted By jem375:

Originally Posted By Dave_Pendleton:
I took the PlusP course and walked out halfway through.

It was awful.

Really?


yes, I will either take the Front Sight or Gunsite training course if I do take a course..
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 9:49:23 AM EDT
There are a lot of classes out there. Unfortunately quite a few seem to be paper farms less dedicated to instruction and more focused on getting you the permit.
However I am not going to try and discourage anyone from doing what they want to obtain a permit. It is commendable that people take responsibility for their own as well as their family’s protection. It is our fundamental right and duty as citizens.
I just hope people have the sense to do it right. There are many elements to carrying a firearm for protection that need to be learned and practiced. This includes the legalities and use of deadly force training, as well as use of the firearm. There are a lot of elements to shooting from concealment that can not be practiced at the average range.
I have heard from quite a few people that the class they took was lacking. A buddy of mine paid for all of his employees to attend a Plus P class some time back. While the training was not bad they felt it was inadequate and not a very good value for the $. Those that were serious about carrying sought out additional training options afterwards.
Perhaps this is an option for those that want to get things going immediately and ensure the permit is in their hands and then seek out further training to best utilize it. Of course this will start to add up $ wise.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:27:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By death451:

That is where Sullys no nonsense aproach will shine,very practical no BS.




There is a good point in that statement. A class can have a fantastic curriculum only to have it wasted by a poor instructor. To get the most out of any learning experience the teacher as well as the student must have a good attitude and open mind. IMHO
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:46:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2005 10:47:34 AM EDT by jem375]

Originally Posted By QuinlanV:
There are a lot of classes out there. Unfortunately quite a few seem to be paper farms less dedicated to instruction and more focused on getting you the permit.
However I am not going to try and discourage anyone from doing what they want to obtain a permit. It is commendable that people take responsibility for their own as well as their family’s protection. It is our fundamental right and duty as citizens.
I just hope people have the sense to do it right. There are many elements to carrying a firearm for protection that need to be learned and practiced. This includes the legalities and use of deadly force training, as well as use of the firearm. There are a lot of elements to shooting from concealment that can not be practiced at the average range.
I have heard from quite a few people that the class they took was lacking. A buddy of mine paid for all of his employees to attend a Plus P class some time back. While the training was not bad they felt it was inadequate and not a very good value for the $. Those that were serious about carrying sought out additional training options afterwards.
Perhaps this is an option for those that want to get things going immediately and ensure the permit is in their hands and then seek out further training to best utilize it. Of course this will start to add up $ wise.

It was a state certified course and that is all you need for a CC permit....you don't stop practicing shooting skills after the class is over..besides, I think they are no longer in business..
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 12:30:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2005 12:31:54 PM EDT by iNuhBaDNayburhood]
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 6:22:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jem375:

Originally Posted By Dave_Pendleton:

Originally Posted By jem375:

Originally Posted By Dave_Pendleton:
I took the PlusP course and walked out halfway through.

It was awful.

Really?



Yes, really.

What is it you were looking for?

deleted



I took this class about a year before the MPPA was passed because the instructor lived across the street from a good friend. It wasn't Daryll, but rather a younger guy who was also a Navy reservist, and something of a martial-arts expert.

The class started with range time, and was little more than him looking at my target after my 14 (yes, 14) rounds and saying "Good".

He spent most of the remaining time discussing his martial-arts skills, a few minutes about deadly force, a few more minutes on what handgun rounds would do the most damage and the way too much time entertaining what-if's from two total morons in the class who only seemed interested if they could shoot someone in their house or on their property.

Apparently the classroom at BPR was double-booked, and we were supposed to move to the Perkins up the street.

We got in our cars and I kept driving, as did my friend.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 3:54:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2005 10:38:41 AM EDT by rn22723]
The funny thing about all the most CCW trainers is that they do not do it for a living. Some I know are freaking carpenters, no disrespect to the tradesmen meant, and just because they took a NRA Insturctor Course they are qualified by the letter of the law as is stands now till 10/05. But, I fear most are not able to convey street smarts! Or teach out of the box! Or convey properly formatted programming! Let the professionals teach you. Quin is a walking and talking billboard for DE programs. Quin has fun learning as do the other usual suspects! And, he is a great help to others by being a cheerleader (of the male variety of course) I see no one else coming up with such positive proclamations about other trainers. Negative towards Plus P Inc for sure, but nothing is spoke of on any of the forums ie THR, TFL, Glocktalk etc. One name come across universally almost, Sully. Well, they use Fritz's name in vain cause of his Kharma and the weather. Perhaps he needs a MRI to realign his inner self. Anyways I think we have great instruction close to home! And, to all you nasayers that say they do not want drive to Princeton or some yet to be named range whine, while others enjoy!

And, just cause you take one course does not assure any sort of level of proficency. Any that does is full of fecal matter. No way to even validate that. I think Sully said it took him mucho ammo to master the grip he shows people in class! You don't do that tapping away at the keyboard! The alumni classes are great brush up opportunities.

Personally I wish that the MPPA would have been buffed up to allow for more reciprocity opportunities. And, perhaps even allowing for do not have to wait for NCIS checks on firearms purchases. But, we have it back. Go out and get some training!

Plus we need to have someone dethrown Death....................................
Can not have some one shooting Wolf ammo win! That is unAmerican!
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 4:39:09 AM EDT
Check with Cabelas or Minute Man range.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 6:47:35 AM EDT
Long live the king.

I don't care where you go for training just make shure you go often.

People spend alot of money on the firearms and nothing on training that to me is dumb.
all we ask is come out to Sullys class compare with the others that is all.



5 gun champ(with wolf) out
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:20:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rn22723:
The funny thing about all the most CCW trainers is that they do not do it for a living. Some I know are freaking carpenters, no disrespect to the tradesmen meant, and just because they took a NRA Insturctor Course they are qualified by the letter of the law as is stands now till 10/05. But, I fear most are not able to convey street smarts! Or teach out of the box! Or convey properly formatted programming! Let the professionals teach you. Quin is a walking and talking billboard for DE programs. Quin has fun learning as do the other usual suspects! And, he is a great help to others by being a cheerleader (of the male variety of course) I see no one else coming up with such positive proclamations about other trainers. Negative towards Plus P Inc for sure, but nothing is spoke of on any of the forums ie THR, TFL, Glocktalk etc. One name come across universally almost, Sully. Well, they use Fritz's name in vain cause of his Kharma and the weather. Perhaps he needs a MRI to realign his inner self. Anyways I think we have great instruction close to home! And, to all you nasayers that say they do not want drive to Princeton or some yet to be named range whine, while others enjoy!

And, just cause you take one course does not assure any sort of level of proficency. Any that does is full of fecal matter. No way to even validate that. I thing Sully said it took him mucho ammo to master the grip he shows people in class! You don't do that tapping away at the keyboard! The alumni classes are great brush up opportunities.

Personally I wish that the MPPA would have been buffed up to allow for more reciprocity opportunities. And, perhaps even allowing for do not have to wait for NCIS checks on firearms purchases. But, we have it back. Go out and get some training!

Plus we need to have someone dethrown Death....................................
Can not have some one shooting Wolf ammo win! That is unAmerican!

LOL
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 10:52:34 AM EDT
It is funny how some people are not fiscally prudent!
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 8:17:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FedGunner:

Originally Posted By twonami:
anyone know of classes in SE Minnesota? My neighbor is thinking of getting one



Take the time to drive.
The Defensive Esdge classes are the only ones I've seen that you actually have a chance to fail. To me this is a very big +



Another +1 for DE. My wife and I took the course. Plus you get to take alumni classes at reduced rates.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 11:20:34 PM EDT
I took a class last year... so can I go get a permit now or do I have to wait a little while?

Link Posted: 5/24/2005 10:27:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 7:56:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2005 7:56:56 AM EDT by QuinlanV]
I agree. Please do it, but take the time, and make the investment, to do it right.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 12:52:53 PM EDT
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