I know this question has been asked before but Ill ask it again to the locals. In SHTF, how many mags do you plan to carry? MAny say "as many as I can take" but for real, how many would be enough and what set-up do you use to carry them? I ask because I just got some more tactical taylor gear in that I have been waiting for ever for and Ive built my LBV with out many mag holders. I have left it to my left leg along with my dump pouch. I shoot off the right shoulder and that allows me to hold possition and reload. But what do you feel is "the right" amount? And, where do you locate your mags on your gear?
I will post picks ( sorry no tactical posing! ) of the gear to see what you all think. Im thinking it will work for me but there is always someone out there with better ideas than ME!
Also I wanted to keep it in layers to be able to have gear that I can drop or add depending on situation.
Please advise and love to hear what you all think.
Not a plug for the company but I must say Tactical TAyor is one very fine company and hats off to some of the best gear I have ever seen.
On my JBT rig I carry 3+1. On my SHTF rig I carry 10+1 and that includes a 4 mag bandolier. The 4 mag 30 rd bandoliers are quite special.
I would say 7 minimum as that's typically combat load. Most of the guys running and gunning in Iraq recommend 12-15 within easy reach whether it be on your person or in a vehicle. You've got to decide what you think SHTF will be and what your resupply situation will be like.
My rig is setup for 10 (9 in the pouches, 1 in the weapon); additionally, I'd likely toss a battle pack into the back pack. Remember, in a SHTF scenario food and water are going to be just as important as well. Time of year will also dicatate heavily on just what kind of load out you'll be able to pack. Also, if engaged, be prepared to drop you pack and be able to manuever otherwise you may not make it to be able to use what you're carrying.
here's what my rig will be, hopefully by the end of this year:
1st line gear:
TAG rigger's belt
Safariland 6004 on the right leg
Some sort of gas mask bag, velcro closure, top-flap open, on my left leg, mounted on a:
Tactical Tailor modular leg panel
Tactical Tailor first responder bag, used as my butt pack
Two Essential Tactical Double-mag pouches
CSM dump pouch, until Stuart at EssTac finishes my custom dumper, which will be, appropriately, called the Footrat
1st and a Half line gear:
Essential Tactical Enhanced OTV cover in Crye Multicam, with Point Blank IIIA panels
Craig Ballistics level IV plates
Two Essential Tactical Single-mag pouches
2nd line gear:
Essential Tactical Bush Boar, only mine will be a split-front with a plate carrier.
Some sort of pouch for a blowout kit, whether it'll be a TT or an EssTac, I don't know.
Tactical Tailor large utility pouch, for a canteen, cup, and stove, and whatever else, because it's a big pouch
Essential Tactical double pistol magpouch
Essential Tactical custom pouch for my Surefire M3 and filter
Some sort of compass pouch, probably Tactical Tailor
Essential Tactical PackRat, or maybe a ScatRat, which has yet to be released
3rd line gear:
Tactical Tailor Malice 2, with reinforced back panel and sleeping bag extension, Eagle straps and belt
Camelbak MULE, with chemical resistant bladder. I keep another chem. resistant bladder in the TT pack
Tactical Tailor first responder bag, used, amazingly, as a medical bag
there will be a total of 15 mags upon my body, plus whatever extra mags and ammo end up in the pack. little things like a multi-tool and other such little things that end up on first and second line gear were left out, because i'm not sure what all i'll be carrying, as far as SHTF fashion accessories go.
the way my gear is laid out, i can pick any one piece of gear, and still have water and ammo. from the bottom up, it'll be worn as such: suspenders and belt; OTV; bush boar w/plates; MALICE pack; TT FRB strapped to the MULE, the MULE strapped to the pack. if i ditch the pack, i can easily undo a coulple fastex buckles and take my MULE, and i do have a canteen on my 2nd line gear. if i ditch the pack and the 2nd line, i still can take the MULE. there are AR mags on the belt (2+2), on the OTV (1+1), and on the bush boar (6+3). that makes a total of 15 mags. i don't count one in the rifle, because i like to have an empty hole in a magpouch that i can put the first empty mag back into. you guys doing the (10+1) thing are either going to be dropping a mag, fumbling two mags at once trying to switch them, or using a dump pouch right off the bat. for me, the dump pouch is there as a last resort, or to hold extra crap that i might need a big, open pouch for. the OTV carrier is being made by Stuart at EssTac, to hold some PB IIIA panels i have. i call it an "OTV", because basically, it'll be an interceptor, but technically, not, because it's not made from any issued equipment. the panels aren't out of an interceptor. stuart is copying and enhancing a medium interceptor carrier, and crafting it out of Crye Precision Multicam, as soon as that stuff comes in.
While i'm on the subject of Essential Tactical- they're my favorite brand of gear. ever. stuart is the man. he's the owner, and main stitch bitch over there (he has a couple of helpers that cut webbing, etc.). he's made a LOT of gear for me, and has sent me plenty of cool shit to try out, just because we're on such good terms. he's really good about swapping out a competitor's gear for his own, just so he can get his hands on that stuff and see how it compares. for instance, i thought my TT singles were great. until i saw one of his. stuart makes all of his gear out of two layers of cordura, not one, like most manufacturers. this means his shit is heavier duty, and stiffer, not flimsy and floppy, like your "girlfriend" after you spiked her drink and took her into the back bedroom at the christmas party last year. I really like TT gear, as is evident by the large utility pouch, MALICE pack, drop leg panel, and two FRB's i have from them. they make good shit. EssTac gear is even better. for instance, TT makes their singles from one layer of cordura. this makes them floppy, and getting a mag back into one is impossible one-handed. esstac singles are two layers of material, and are nice and stiff. also, my TT singles had shittily-done PALS webbing. they were off by 5/8" overall on the front and back of each one. that's not ALL that bad, by itself, but if you try to mount that on something with PALS webbing that's even a little bit off from spec, you're not going to get very far.
anyways, that's my gear. feel free to ask any questions if you think i omitted something, or wonder why i have something a certain way.
12 AR mags 30 rounds each.
10 1911 mags minimum of 8 rounds each.
no problem. by the way, in case you couldn't tell, i'm a gear-queer. i'm gay for cordura.
Whats your Defension "SP?"
Not to sound all wacky or anything but the trade towers came down and we didn't have SHTF.
I know I know things "could" go very wrong real fast. So what are you thinking could happen that would = SHTF?
With that said
Standerd load out
TAC vest 9 , 30 rounders
4 Glock mags
and starded TAC backpack that holds anything else I would need.
i have a vest that will take 12 30er's and i think 8 1911 mags, possibly 10. you should not need more than that on your person. i do have a few thousand m855, 45acp, and at least 3 thousand ss109 hanging arounnf in ammo can with silica packs in each can. mostly for plain ol' shooting but i make sure there is a couple of thousand just in case.
I have a fanny pack and a P38...well, I have to get a fanny pack...oh, and a P38.. DOH!!!
I am just gonna hit the Nat'l Guard Armory on my way out and stock up. Those guys will be too busy to notice lil' ol' me.
IMHO the most likely SHTF scenereo 99% of us are likely to encounter is looting after an event like a hurricane, earthquake, or extended blackout. In these events, LEO has to pull back and does not have the manpower to spare in order to prevent property crime. We, as citizens, are on our own till some semblance of order is restored. Weapons being employed to protect life and home/neighborhood.
That being said, my loadout would be a 20 rounder in the AR, with 2 30's in a pouch. A 45 with 2 spare mags. This is intended as a "sentry loadout".
Try this experiment, take your SHTF loadout gear (what you intend to carry and have on your person), and pile it all in a box and weigh it. Include water, food, etc if you plan to take it. Now load up a backpack with sand, or other ballast and go for a day hike on a hiking trail. See how far you get, and what you feel like when you get there. For you CE guys, I know of some excellent trails along the river between Jackson and Montecello, 25 to 50 miles easy.
I used to hike 3 miles to my favorite hunting spot, and after several trips in and out, I found what was necessary, and what wasn't.
Hell, just lugging all my crap to the tables at CE shows me that. Why can't we pull up to the tables, unload, then park?!? There is enough room.
That is all tru and good points, but I feel if it was a real SHTF deal, there would be no resupply lines and each would have to join up with others off the same thought and fight in numbers. Will it ever come to that, I do not know? But as a boyscout I would like to think I would be ready for what ever would happen. I feel it would come down to the "Haves" vs the "Have nots". In that case I would be fully ready and could last for some time. But if it was the "Red Sawn" situation then it would be a long road ahead.
Ill get back on other ideas and thoughts when I can take more time from work! Thanks and keep them coming!
I'm not quite "up to speed" as all you other tactical guys with all the high speed vest, etc. My combat load-out is 12, 30 rounds mags on my 782 gear and one in the rifle and 6 loaded pistol mags.
I would agree on the most part. It all depends on what the siuation is. My 782 gear is the same as I used in the Corps so it is how I choose to keep it.
Good thoughts book, I do not see myself fighting in the urban area. I see myself heading to the GA hills. I spent several years up in there and remember it somewhat. I would feel safer up there vs my own back yard. Again I hope I do not scare anyone in this talk but I just wanted to have everything needed Just IN Case! 4 storms in 1 month here in FL sounds like some book in the bible! Im even thinking of buying or building an ark!
You know, that's a really good idea. I wonder how many wouldn't mind a couple times a year get together, camping, shooting, etc.
Good way to exchange ideas and check out gear.
Many get together and shoot often. Its a great bunch of people! Many have even gone to bearslayer's house and done some camping. Im sure as the weather gets a bit cooler it will start to kick off again more often!
my gear is set up for a long walk for bugging out. my pack will be stocked, hopefully by christmas, with enough food and supplies for at least a week. my 1st and second line gear are set up for the possibility of not having resupply for a while, depending on how long it takes to get to the bug out point on foot or by vehicle. i'm switching over from an H-harness over the OTV to the suspenders/OTV/chest rig, because i want to be able to ditch any one piece of gear, but more importantly because i want to be able to get in and out of a vehicle with my gear on. i can sit on a butt pack, but not on all the gear i used to have crammed on my pistol belt.
for those of you bitching about weight, i don't know about you, but i do actually do ruck marches and hikes, along with running when i'm not too lazy. i went without running for two months or more, and i just did two miles easy on monday. every sunday i go to stone mountain and walk the full trail around (and partially up and down) the mountain. that's 7 miles of ROUGH terrain, with a full pack and water load (9 liters of water). we're going to double that to 14 miles if we can ever get up there early enough on sundays before the sun goes down. it's not a matter of weight. the weight will get less over the time that you're in the situation, and you'll get used to the weight. if you simply stay in shape and carry that weight every now and then, you shouldn't have any problems.
got your priorities straight? do you plan on using your pistol a majority of the time? ditch the extra mags either completely or into your 3rd line gear. use that space to put more AR mags, or other more essential gear. keep a couple pistol mags on your 1st or 2nd line gear. maybe 4 if you're using a capacitally-challenged pistol like a 1911. any more than that and you're just wasting space. if you have time to change that many pistol mags, you have ample time to use your rifle.
my kit is the best setup i've found for actual combat. your load-bearing gear should not be weighed down by anything that is involved in long-term sustainment. you should keep a stripped MRE in your 2nd line gear, and water. other than that, your longer-term stuff goes in your ruck. my gear is oriented toward being able to sustain me in a prolonged firefight in urban or other environments. it's oriented toward being the toughest, simplest, smoothest operating gear i can think of.
I must beg to differ on weight not being relevant if you think you are in shape. One of the tests I had to complete for my expert infantryman's badge in the Army was a 12 mile road march with full gear and weapon. Basically, it's BDU's, boots, kevlar, LBE, 100 lb ruck, and 8 lb M16. That march kicked my ass. I completed it in 3 hours, but was wiped out at the end. My feet were bleeding, too. I was in the best shape of my life at that time. Weight is weight and it's going to take it's toll over a long distance. Spend any amount of time walking with your gear and you'll figure out what you need and what you don't.
Couldn't agree with more BD. The other thing I said above and will comment on it again
that if SHTF it would take A or nukes "S" to cause something that would cause a mass exdus.
With us in the lower states NC,SC,TN,GA we are prime hits. Ontop of that you are seeing
a small SHTF right now with all the storms hitting FL and them coming up here. Seen the news?
their highways were F(*& with the last one and even gas was hard to find. Even then there wasn't
guys walking around in TAC gear. IF its nukes most of us won't be around for it to matter.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for being ready for whatever comes down the road but alittle reality
is just as insightful. Plus if things again went wrong you know there will be people leading the sheep to shelter. More than likly sheep leading sheep. In that case maybe from big time storm? then guarding your shit from looters would fit in.
In the storm case a perfect example of how shit really plays out was back in 94? never can rem dates when homestead FL got it. We were asked to assit LEO and guard down there. Things looked more like a 3rd world country hell even some people acted like it. None the less LEO's were complety off base and ill trained for that type of matter. We had people finding their shit 3 to 4 miles away in other peoples yards. Most of the people were fine with it but the LEO's were not all about people wondering the streets to get their own freaking stuff. How do you think GA LEO's would be?
Being kind to people would last no more than 4 days I'm betting like it was in FL.
Edit to add that even in that case we didn't have people walking around in TAC gear.
I think having "two" sets of SHTF gear/ plan is better.
Home/yard/ Neiborhood defense would = TAC vest with whatever it holds and a drop leg for an addital pistol or mags Maybe a few snipers with Stoners on the the roofs "grin". kinda joking on that but hey guess you never know.
Then you have your world is ending setup. Guns/water/MRE's/ and everything else which could easly be loaded or carried via yourself and or family members. And mutiable planned meeting spots for rest and regroup as well as adding more people to your "unit" Oh and get a DAMN MAP and a compass. Walking won't do you much good if you don't know where your going.
i don't know what all is going in a 100 lb. pack, but a full pack for me is about 65 lbs. remember, i am only carrying enough for me, for a week or so. i don't have to carry a radio, or extra ammo for any other people besides myself. once you add a sleeping bag, i figure another 5 lbs. or so, so about 70 lbs, plus my 1st and second line gear, plus my rifle. that's not too much more than normal. but, here's the great thing: nothing is melted to my skin, meaning, i can take it off if it ends up being too heavy in the long haul. i can always ditch gear, which is why i have my gear set up the way it is. if your feet were bleeding after 12 miles, you had shitty boots. i'll admit, 3 hours is a pretty good pace for that, since we do those 7 hard miles in about 1 hour, 45 minutes or so. but, i'll have a lighter load than that, and i can always ditch the stuff that gets too heavy if i need to.
I'm bugging OVER to the Bookhound compound.
Footrat - what color is your gear? I can't seem to decide between olive/green, woodland, and MARPAT. (OMG - I said MARPAT). I have wound up with a potporri of gear that is a mixture of a little of everything.
My basic buildout started much like yours:
Blackhawk Riggers Belt
Blackhawk drop leg holster w/ mag pouch (hopefully I can replace my Kimber soon) (green)
London Bridge Trading Co. drop leg 3 AR15 30rd single mag pouch (very slim profile) (woodland)
London Bridge SERE bag w/ surivial kit
Ka-Bar 1214 Black serrated in Kydex sheath
2nd line: (would like to replace / see below) - (all in woodland)
Molle II FLC
four (4) Molle/SDS RACK double M4 Mag pouchs
two (2) ELCS Large GP pouches
one (1) Molle/SDS Medic Pouch
one (1) small radio pouch
two (2) single mag pistol pouches
Camelbak 3L hydration
3rd line: (since I don't plan on doing a lot of 'LRRP' work):
Molle/SDS Patrol Pack w/ waistpack
If I had to go hardcore 3rd line, it would probably be a Becker Patrol Pack. Again, I don't see the need at this point. If anything, I may go with some form of assault pack like a RAID, etc.
With the current setup, I get 12 30rd rounders. 3 in the drop leg, 8 in the four (4) double mag pouches + 1. It also provides 4 pistol mags. One on the holster, two on the FLC +1.
My system probably would work if I had to use it, but it is not ideal IMHO. I somehow wound up with all this stuff (and all the extras that aren't listed). I need to do some selling/buying/replacing to make it better. I would like to replace my entire 2nd line gear. I was originally looking at the SOTech Hellcat of some flavor w/ Paracelet pouches until I stumbled on the Essential Gear back when he was selling stuff on eBay. I would also like to add some additional items here and there. The HSGI suspenders look good. Was thinking of replacing the LBT 3 mag pouch with a HSGI drop leg sub load. Maybe change the holster, but I need to re-acquire a first line pistol (I'm down to my CCW Kimber Ultra Carry). I was thinking of a Maxpedition bag of some sort on the 1st line belt. Don't know. You have given me lots of good ideas.
Anybody need gear?
Thanks. I can field my own
Well maybe here in the next few months I will need to build me something a bit lighter so I can move faster. My gear is built to hold me for about a week. I have not packed it full as of yet but tons of survival gear. Im sure I could last for a good week if I can stand walking alot! Its a long haul to books place from Miami. I would be about a 25 day hike at 25 miles a day. That would be a long walk to not run into anyone. I have set up now to carry 6 30 round mags +1. and 4 17 round glock 19 mags. 2 sets of clothes, food, and 100 ounces of water. Ill try to get some pics here soon when I can get some time to load it up and Ill make a list of everything in it.
What are so "MUSTS" to have in any gear? And what about 2nd and 3rd line of gear?
This is where I could use some clarification also (as far as the rules go).
The ideal is to add in layers so that, when removed in reverse order, you are shedding the least essential items first. 1st line is 1st line. In reverse order, it is last line - the absolute bare essentials that you cannot live without.
I want to keep everything I have to have with me to survive on the 1st line. That's why I keep my pistol and at least one spare mag, knife, SERE bag, and some AR ammo on the drop leg there (I need to add water - duh, talk about 1st line). Don't forget that pockets count as first line. If it is in your pocket, it is on your person.
I keep the AR mag drop leg just so I have 90rds without having to have my 2nd line stuff. Think about having to wear your 1st AND 2nd line stuff ALL the time just to have ammo for your PRIMARY weapon.
I used to have some references for this. I'll see if I can dig them up. See below for a 'spreadsheet' I have. If you want the actual Excel worksheet, email me at firstname.lastname@example.org and I will shoot it to you sometime next week.
How's it going down there Vedubin01?????
Lines of Equipment
First Line Gear
Survival gear In Butt P In Back P In vest Notes/Specific type
Water straw / Purifier 8 Supplemental
Water purification drops 1 In survival kit
Signal mirror 3
Lensatic compass 1 3r
Pace counter X Under radio pouch
pocket strobe 1
First aid kit- Personal 1
First aid kit- General 1 In daypack
Survival knife/tool In Drop leg holster
Pocket tool In Drop leg holster
Water/wind proof matches 1 9r
Local relief maps 8
Water proof bags 1 1
Food stuff In Butt P In Back P In vest Notes/Specific type
MRE's 1 case 5
Citrus cough drops
Power Bars 1
1qt canteen 4,6 Each side pocket
Camelbak In Alipad
Comm gear In Butt P In Back P In vest Notes/Specific type
Hand held CB
Motorola TA Distance plus 6
Motorola radio headset 6
FM/weather radio 6 Built into Mot. TA
Second Line Gear
Field gear In Butt P In Back P In vest Notes/Specific type
550 cord (100 feet) 4 11
Space blankets 1
12pk light sticks 1
Sleeping bag Main
Sleeping mat / field pillow Main
Poncho / Rain gear 7
Ground cloth/poncho I1
Rope, 100' Main
Goggles wind/snow 4
Shemag/dust scarf 10l
Batteries spares in general 8
Flashlight-Utility Dropleg holster
Camo face paint 1
GPS system 9r
Food stuff In Butt P In Back P In vest Notes/Specific type
MRE's 1 case 5, 9 7
Trail mix 7
Citrus cough drops 7
Power Bars 7
2qt canteen 2r, 2l
1qt canteen Each side pocket
Camelbak X In Alipad
Weapons and accessories In Butt P In Back P In vest Notes/Specific type
Cleaning kit 8
Magazines for battle rifle 1 4
Pistol mags 5
Pistol ammo main
Third Line Gear
Food stuff In Butt P In Back P In vest Notes/Specific type
MRE's 1 case 5, 9
Citrus cough drops
Camelbak X In Alipad
Field gear-cont. In Butt P In Back P In vest Notes/Specific type
Sharpening stone 4
Smoke grenades X 1r,1l Two in vest, two in daypack
Sewing kit 3
Clothing In Butt P In Back P In vest Notes/Specific type
Socks sub1, sub2 outer pocket, main body
Under wear sub1 main body
T Shirts sub1 main body
Gloves heavy work 2 secured on d-ring
Gloves tactical On hands
Health and Hygiene In Butt P In Back P In vest Notes/Specific type
Blistex / lipbalm 3l
mini tooth brush 4
mini tooth paste 4
Foot powder 4
Gold Balm powder 4
Bug juice 4
Imodium AD 4
Cold pills 4
Peptobismo pills 4
Field bath main
Face wipes 1
Excedrin Migraine 4
Ear plugs 4
Nail clippers 4
Specialized gear In Butt P In Back P In vest Notes/Specific type
Range finder Main Mission dependent
NVG/NV scope 6
Trip wire warning devices 1
Winter gear based on AO In Butt P In Back P In vest Notes/Specific type
Poly underwear Main Climate dependent
Winter set/ Gortex Main Climate dependent
Thermal socks Main Climate dependent
Stocking cap Main Climate dependent
Scarf Main Climate dependent
Insulated Gloves Main Climate dependent
Insulated Boots Main Climate dependent
Pocket hand warmers 3 In survival kit
Snow camo w/cape 10 Climate dependent
Sleeping bag insert 10 Climate dependent
Tinted lenses 4 Climate dependent
going great, working hard but the market here sucks in what I do right now. I have not done any painting in some time, all my stuff is still up in Atlanta. But I do have some things I want to get on so I might have to get them back down here. Thanks to Muddy I gots me a fine RRA 20" a2 upper! Thanks buddy! And just working on getting what I feel I must need just in case.
Everyone here has been great and love to hear what people have to say. Thanks all!
my gear is all OD, with the exception of the OTV carrier, which is currently woodland. i'll soon have an OD one and one made of Multicam. if i like the multicam that much, and deem it to be a good pattern and color, i'll think about slowly converting my gear all over to multicam. but, to be quite honest, OD is the best for all environments if you have to pick one thing. it works okay in urban stuff, pretty damn well in wooded stuff, and well in just about anything else i'm going to find in GA. no deserts to contend with, so no worries. probably what i'll do is switch my BDU's all over to multicam, have the multicam vest, and the rest of my gear in OD, because it'll help further break up a regular outline. my BDU's are currently woodland and marpat, because i never got around to completing a week's worth in one pattern.
WTH is multicam???