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9/17/2020 5:59:48 PM
Posted: 4/15/2006 11:18:51 PM EDT
I have been having an increase in failure to extract using wolf ammo.  until recently my colt would eat it up like candy.  anyone have any possible soulutions beside just not using this ammo?  As it stands I probably will send four mags down range then a round gets jammed up.  

thanks.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 11:41:54 PM EDT
does it extract at all? If you haven't all ready clean the shit out of the chamber... chamber brush on a short rod chucked up in a drill with LOT's of CLP, bore scrubber(liquid not can) #9 what ever you use. If your extractor is sliping off the rim and leaving the round in the CLEAN chamber or not ejecting properly I'd replace your extractor spring(wolff) and maybe the ejector spring... also take a close look at your extractor for chips/ware(not from the wolf just USE)

John
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 6:17:17 AM EDT
Does anyone else think that maybe steel cases are a little harder on extractors than brass?  Just asking, not bashing.

One of my troops started shooting Wolf through his pistol and after a few hundred rounds he started having extractor problems that he never had before and ever since.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 8:25:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ANIMUS:
Does anyone else think that maybe steel cases are a little harder on extractors than brass?  Just asking, not bashing.

One of my troops started shooting Wolf through his pistol and after a few hundred rounds he started having extractor problems that he never had before and ever since.



Not to mention laquered cases like to gum up a hot chamber and become sticky. But suposidly they fixed that problem. I have heard of AR manufacturers that will void their warrenty if t hey find you have been shooting wolf amo.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 8:34:46 AM EDT
I am going to give the "new" Wolf .223 with the poly coating a try but I don't want to shoot that stuff through a pistol.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 9:02:10 AM EDT
The old Wolf coating used to melt but I think the new one does not, as for hardness it may be harder than the brass but no way as hard as the extractor, I would sart with the cleaning brush on the drill in the chamber
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 9:24:18 AM EDT
I've dumped thousands of rounds of wolf .223 both poly and laqure through all 5 of my own AR's and have family/friends that have done the same... only ONE had problems with short stroking and that had an undersized gas port(M1S barrel) once that was addressed it ran wolf and everything else fine. I've not noticed ANY extra ware on the extractor or chamber... I've never had to change out a bad extractor... springs... sure but not the extractor it self. In all the rounds of wolf I've shot I had ONE round that was over lenght and would not chamber... a few more had some small dings but they still shot fine...maybe I've just had good luck with wolf.

John
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:10:09 PM EDT
thanks for all the input.  Yes I clean the gun after every outing be it not USMC clean but clean never the less.  I do notice that there is a build up of redish/purplish gunk around the chamber.  another change was that I went from using patches to using a boresnake not sure if this has anything to do with it I still use brushes then the bore snake where I would have used patches to finish up.  after cleaning I placed the same cartridge in the chamber and it extracted fine.  the colt is a match hbar so I am not sure if having a "match" chamber has anything to do with it.  some info from other boards stated that the match chamber have closer tolerences?  well my extractor seems to be okay no chips good tension on the spring.  Ill give another run and if it does not perform maybe ill change the extractor and spring anyway.  I have had this gun since the early nineties and have a ton of rounds down it.  
thanks all ill let you know what i find out
J
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:51:40 PM EDT
Are you using a chamber brush or just a bore brush? reason I ask is the build up in the locking lug area... a good cleaning with the chamber brush should remove ALL of it.



I have had this gun since the early nineties and have a ton of rounds down it.


If you haven't replaced the extractor spring it's time... I'd think about doing ALL the springs except the detent springs... I replace my trigger spring, Hammer spring, disco spring, buffer spring, buffer retainer spring, extractor spring and ejector spring once a year... over kill BUT I never have spring related problems and it cost less than 20 buck's.

John

oh, on the chamber spec... it may be .223...I'm not sure what colt "match" chamber spec is... one thing for sure is your chamber didn't get TIGHTER with use if you didn't have problems from day one with wolf it's not the chamber spec...
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 12:26:26 AM EDT
actually I use both where applicable yes after I give it a cleaning its all clean in there its prior to the cleaning I notice the build up.  I will have to consider the spring change out if things dont get sorted out.  I too dont know the specs for the chamber it has eaten everything from norinco, reloads, and even the good stuff with out a hiccup, till the wolf steel case that is.  actually the barrel is marked 5.56 with all the mp and usual stampings one would expect to find.  

thanks again

J
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 1:33:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By the_agent:
thanks for all the input.  Yes I clean the gun after every outing be it not USMC clean but clean never the less.  I do notice that there is a build up of redish/purplish gunk around the chamber.  another change was that I went from using patches to using a boresnake not sure if this has anything to do with it I still use brushes then the bore snake where I would have used patches to finish up.  after cleaning I placed the same cartridge in the chamber and it extracted fine.  the colt is a match hbar so I am not sure if having a "match" chamber has anything to do with it.  some info from other boards stated that the match chamber have closer tolerences?  well my extractor seems to be okay no chips good tension on the spring.  Ill give another run and if it does not perform maybe ill change the extractor and spring anyway.  I have had this gun since the early nineties and have a ton of rounds down it.  
thanks all ill let you know what i find out
J



I have not used Wolf that much, but as I have said before I have friends that have full-auto M16's and Wolf is all they use for screwing around and plinking, and they use premium Mil-Spec ammunition for their serious training and the "shit-hits-the-fan" ammo.

I know that Wolf is very dirty and cleaning your weapon after every use is always recommended. I spoke to a friend of mine tonight on the the telephone and he was cleaning his SBR as we spoke. He said that he had approximately 1300 rounds of Wolf through it before it started to hiccup. That to me is not a bad record of reliability.

Nonetheless, I would recommend against using just patches and/or a Bore Snake for a thorough cleaning. A superficial cleaning is ok at the range, but your rifle should be cleaned in detail whenever you have the time to do it because there is a lot of carbon and fouling buildup that remains in your gun after drilling with hundreds of rounds. Therefore, a detailed cleaning will not only allow you to inspect for defects, but it will also clear out any potential issues with proper functioning.

I would also rethink changing springs and all that, especially if is is a fairly new gun. Just do a detailed (and I mean detailed) cleaning after each use and you will probably have a reliable rifle each time you shoot it.

I have also seen and heard of people over the years having extractor and extraction problems when using Wolf steel cased ammunition through their handguns. I personally witnessed a person's extractor sheer off in a brand new, never fired (except at the factory)  Beretta, Inox 96, .40 cal after just 20 rounds of Wolf pistol ammunition.

Hope this helps.

Be Safe.

Joe
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 10:28:00 AM EDT
Hey Joe,
How are things.  Thanks for the 411 and I do remember the SBR on the last bunny trip.  Anyway I always scrub with brushes both bore and chamber brushes then I would use the bore snake in place of using patches to remove the residue.  This procedure leaves the bore and chamber clean verifed by visualization down the tube.  After shooting routine includes complete tear down of the bolt assembly etc.  At this point it only wolf ammo that is given me these issues.  No problem with brass casings.  I just want to be able to use wolf reliably for plinking ammo.  waiting for a break in the wind to go dump some more wolf and see what happens.

ty
J
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 5:27:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 5:28:06 PM EDT by ishoot2live]

Originally Posted By the_agent:
Hey Joe,
How are things.  Thanks for the 411 and I do remember the SBR on the last bunny trip.  Anyway I always scrub with brushes both bore and chamber brushes then I would use the bore snake in place of using patches to remove the residue.  This procedure leaves the bore and chamber clean verifed by visualization down the tube.  After shooting routine includes complete tear down of the bolt assembly etc.  At this point it only wolf ammo that is given me these issues.  No problem with brass casings.  I just want to be able to use wolf reliably for plinking ammo.  waiting for a break in the wind to go dump some more wolf and see what happens.

ty
J



What's up Bro?

Hopefully you'll get the bugs worked out using the Wolf ammo. I'll ask Matt about it the next time I talk to him, maybe he has some advice. He uses Wolf in all his NFA stuff and he seldom (if at all) has any problems.

I haven't been hunting since we went last. I saw MQ-1 and Nate at BRA on Saturday when Dan bought his new Colt Commander. Although those guys go out more than I do, they want to get a party together for another trip. Perhaps next time we can do an overnighter.



Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:09:29 PM EDT
I am down with an overnighter. Let's get it rolling!
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:54:35 PM EDT
It will be nice weather soon for an overnight bunny blast.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:14:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TraumaRN:
I am down with an overnighter. Let's get it rolling!




Originally Posted By Animus:
It will be nice weather soon for an overnight bunny blast.



+1 But will you guys show up next time?



Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:19:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 8:20:46 PM EDT by ANIMUS]
Depends if I can get a kitchen pass from the wife and the baby.

EDIT: Post #308
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 10:27:16 PM EDT
If I can make it! We work a 4on/4off format, so if it falls witihn the off period, I'm there. agent told me you guys had a good time. Looking forward to it!
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 12:46:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TraumaRN:
If I can make it! We work a 4on/4off format, so if it falls witihn the off period, I'm there. agent told me you guys had a good time. Looking forward to it!



I was really looking forward to shooting and hunting with you guys. We were all disappointed that you and Kelly couldn't make it.

Hopefully you can both make the next trip.



Link Posted: 4/18/2006 7:28:42 AM EDT
I'd consider replacing the extractor, extractor spring, and install a #60 O ring over the extractor spring to tighten up the extractor for firm, positive extraction on steel case ammo. Same result as using a "Defender Ring" but much, much cheaper and the #60 O rings last a long time.  Available at Ace Hardware and cost about 30 cents each. The O ring trick got my 7" shortie upper running great with Wolf ammo by curing my extraction problems. YMMV

Link Posted: 4/18/2006 9:24:36 PM EDT
+1 on the #60 O rings. Got them in all our AR's.
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