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Posted: 2/6/2006 8:51:44 AM EDT
does it take to go to jail.
do the cops have to see marks. just a statemet by one of the people? suspicion?
just the ride.

what about the convicion.

Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:05:47 AM EDT
It would seem that a crime of domestic violence has occured when one party feels it necessary to call 911.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:48:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hk940:
does it take to go to jail.
do the cops have to see marks. just a statemet by one of the people? suspicion?
just the ride.

what about the convicion.




damn mike, what did you did you do now ?!?!
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:53:53 AM EDT
i didn't do anything

just watching cops and this dude came home drunk and his old lady "pushes" him out of the house. he calls the cops and they take her to jail. thought it was kind of bizarre they would take her to jail for "laying hand on him".
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:58:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 10:58:28 AM EDT by MauserMark]
not sure in this state, but saw a similar episode in another southern state where the man out of anger broke a lamp in the room. The cop explained that any damage sustained to objects or anything broken during an argument is considered an offense.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:34:30 AM EDT
it also keeps you from getting your chl


Link Posted: 2/6/2006 12:05:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 12:05:16 PM EDT by terrydavis]

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
it also keeps you from getting your chl





And own any firearms. Or work with firearms.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 12:51:14 PM EDT
OUCH.. Makes you want to be and stay a nice guy.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 1:48:47 PM EDT
Maybe a legal eagle can jump in here, but I believe that ANY unwelcome touch is "assault". Put your hand on a LEO's shoulder, and if he doesnt like it, you've just assaulted a peace officer.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 2:15:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By plarkinjr:
Maybe a legal eagle can jump in here, but I believe that ANY unwelcome touch is "assault". Put your hand on a LEO's shoulder, and if he doesnt like it, you've just assaulted a peace officer.



Well, that wouldn't be defined as Domestic Violence under the Lautenberg Amendment/Domestic Violence Misdemeanor Amendment to the Gun Control Act of 1968, unless he is your little love bunny.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:53:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By plarkinjr:
Maybe a legal eagle can jump in here, but I believe that ANY unwelcome touch is "assault". Put your hand on a LEO's shoulder, and if he doesnt like it, you've just assaulted a peace officer.



Well, that wouldn't be defined as Domestic Violence under the Lautenberg Amendment/Domestic Violence Misdemeanor Amendment to the Gun Control Act of 1968, unless he is your little love bunny.



In Texas, as in most states, a touch can be an assault but not always. The physical contact must be so that a reasonable person would believe that such contact is "offensive or provocative". It is generally a Class C misdemeanor, which is about the equivalent of a traffic citation.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:57:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
not sure in this state, but saw a similar episode in another southern state where the man out of anger broke a lamp in the room. The cop explained that any damage sustained to objects or anything broken during an argument is considered an offense.



Not in Texas unless you threw the lamp at someone in an attempted assault. Just being angry and breaking your own property is usually not an offense. It could be an offense if another person also had a monetary interest in the same property but that would be for the property damage, not assault.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 4:03:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hk940:
does it take to go to jail.
do the cops have to see marks. just a statemet by one of the people? suspicion?
just the ride.

what about the convicion.




Suspicion is not enough to make an arrest, Proable Cause is required. Probable Cause in easy terms is, what would a reasonable person believe, knowing the facts that the officer knows. If a reasonable person would believe a single person's statement, then probable cause is likely to exist. Seeing marks is not required.

Conviction takes proof beyond a reasonable doubt. That is the same standard in all criminal trials. An officer might have Probable Cause to make an arrest but the District Attorney might not believe that he has enough evidence in court to prove the offense beyond a reasonable doubt. If it does go to trial, a judge or jury might not find proof beyond a reasonable doubt. That does not make it an illegal arrest as long as Probable Cause existed.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 5:21:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tvc184:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By plarkinjr:
Maybe a legal eagle can jump in here, but I believe that ANY unwelcome touch is "assault". Put your hand on a LEO's shoulder, and if he doesnt like it, you've just assaulted a peace officer.



Well, that wouldn't be defined as Domestic Violence under the Lautenberg Amendment/Domestic Violence Misdemeanor Amendment to the Gun Control Act of 1968, unless he is your little love bunny.



In Texas, as in most states, a touch can be an assault but not always. The physical contact must be so that a reasonable person would believe that such contact is "offensive or provocative". It is generally a Class C misdemeanor, which is about the equivalent of a traffic citation.



Yes, but an assault on a stranger is not domestic violence.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 5:32:23 PM EDT
i hate that BULLSHIT family violence crap - the first one to call the police wins 90% of the time!!!...not fair at all
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:15:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mikejohnson:
i hate that BULLSHIT family violence crap - the first one to call the police wins 90% of the time!!!...not fair at all



What is it that they "win"?

Family Violence in itself is not really an offense per se in Texas. It is a list of duties and requirements for police, prosecutors, etc.

The FV laws require a police officer to make a report, enforce protective orders, issue a written statement to the adult victim of their right to file charges, seek a Protective Order, etc. The FV laws also give an officer the right to arrest without warrant but do not require an arrest unless it is for a Protective Order. The FV laws also can enhance assault charges for repeat offenders.

To get prosecuted, the DA still has to have proof beyond a reasonable doubt. You don't get convicted of an assault just because your wife called the police.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:53:52 PM EDT
In some households leaving the toilet seat up or drinking from the mil carton could be considered grounds for domestic violence :)
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 2:51:06 PM EDT
Family Violence is a little different than other offenses. If the officer feels that there is enough evidence that further family violence will occur, then he can lawfully make an arrest. IE threats, either party says one pushed the other...it takes VERY LITTLE, under F/V. In regard to no more CHL or no weapon, I learned more about the law a few weeks ago. I arrested a CHL holder who went to his parents house, threatened mom (the weapon was not used or displayed) when he threatened mom, dad stood up and told him he could not come in his house and speak to his mother like this...son pushed him and the struggle/fight was on. When I arrived, they were both outside cooling down. Mom disarmed her son, gun was in his back pocket and he had been headed to range to renew his CHL, in fear, she took the gun and hid it due to his violence. As I walk up to the house, I see son shove his father. I ended up having to pepper spray him and father to seperate them. I arrested son on class C F/V, father did not want to persue charges, but occurred in my presence, so I took him. I took possession of weapon from mom since they didn't want it in their house. I took him to jail, placed the weapon in evidence for "safe keeping" only, he could get it back once released from jail. I too thought ANY family violence would keep person from holding CHL....but since in my experience as LEO, I have NEVER had any problems with CHL, I called Austin to see about revocation, suspension etc....DPS Atty said that it must be class A or above to loose your CHL...... Just my .02, but hopefully it will help! B. Allison
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 7:58:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Allison:
Family Violence is a little different than other offenses. If the officer feels that there is enough evidence that further family violence will occur, then he can lawfully make an arrest.



True but you can arrest anyone if you believe that an assault has taken place and further violence may occur. It is not limited to Family Violence.




I too thought ANY family violence would keep person from holding CHL....but since in my experience as LEO, I have NEVER had any problems with CHL, I called Austin to see about revocation, suspension etc....DPS Atty said that it must be class A or above to loose your CHL...... Just my .02, but hopefully it will help! B. Allison


I think Texas law and federal law differ in that area. While Texas law may allow you to possess a gun or a CHL, I think federal law prohibits possession of a firearm for any misdemeanor conviction of domestic violence. It is like felonies where Texas law allows you to possess a firearm in your home after five years from the time you finish your sentence but you are still prohibited by federal law.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 2:25:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 2:29:26 AM EDT by pigmypuncher]

Originally Posted By hk940:
does it take to go to jail.
do the cops have to see marks. just a statemet by one of the people? suspicion?
just the ride.

what about the convicion.




It depends on where you live. When I was still in LE (many years ago), if the we responded to a domestic violence call someone went to jail - period. The officer was to make a best determination of who the 'initiator' was (and sometimes it was a 'best guess'), and an arrest had to be made.
On the positive side, this significantly reduced the number of call backs to the same address in an single evening (Duh). When I started in LE, we had the option to have one person leave the dwelling and agree not to return until the following day (if we were called back they would then go to jail) Of course, if there was obvious signs of abuse an arrest was made on the spot. You would probably be suprised how many women vs men were the abusers.

I have seen this law abused by very angry spouses...

hopefully you have a seasoned Judge who sees through the BS...

Advice - if you are going to 'suprise' your spouse with divorce papers - be sure ALL your guns are locked in a safe at a friends house and it is well documented weeks before you serve the papers.....
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:41:35 AM EDT
As I have read and understand the statutes, ANY DOMESTIC VIOLENCE CONVICTION prohibits ANY possesion and/or access to firearms and/or ammunition period. The BATF&E has a proceedure for the restoration of ones firearms rights however due to budget constraints that system is NOT funded therefore not available. The ONLY other option one would have to restore ones firearms rights is a "PRESIDENTIAL PARDON." So unless you have some pull with the PRESIDENT of THE UNITED STATES, walk away. This info comes from www.atf.gov. I have discussed this with a friend who is a chl instructor and he confirmed stating the TX DPS validated this as well. If anyone has more information, it would be very interesting!
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