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Posted: 10/29/2006 11:37:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 11:37:53 AM EST by builttoughf250]

i have a concealed carry permit.

since MN laws dont care if its concealed or open carry, can i legally have my rifle uncased, slung over my shoulder while i ride my four wheeler from my campsite to my deer stand ( 1.5 miles some county land )

Link Posted: 10/29/2006 12:53:56 PM EST
No you can NOT. That is a DNR regulation that they must be cased. DNR overrides conceal carry laws. Sorry but you have to case them. Also make sure that your handgun is of legal caliber to take big game.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 1:04:03 PM EST
Keep the rifle cased unless your on foot. If your packing a self defense piece, keep it out of sight unless its a legal caliber.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 2:15:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By LandSharkTBC:
No you can NOT. That is a DNR regulation that they must be cased. DNR overrides conceal carry laws. Sorry but you have to case them. Also make sure that your handgun is of legal caliber to take big game.
Sort of... It is true that carrying a loaded long gun in a vehicle is not permitted, it is because that is LAW, not because of DNR regulations or rules. DNR regs/rules do not override state law.

The DNR has already lost (well not a battle, but a skirmish) that says they can ban handguns from State parks if you are a permit holder. Their regulation is not law, and they now acknowledge that to be the case.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:16:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 4:20:56 PM EST by NBot]
I'm suprised your conceal and carry didn't cover / touch basis on this. Or someone during your class didn't ask.

your permit DOES not pertain to any other weapon other than handgun.

So... when your talking about long guns and shotguns, your CCW doesn't permit you to have a gun attatched to your rear mirror in a truck either. (You know like the do in movies)

However to answer your question:

If you look at page 21 of the DNR Hunting Regulation Handbook. It also clearly states that you are not allowed to have a firearm on a motorized vehicle without it being cased.

They made modifications to this handbook as well, to state "Handgun" for the CCW section.

I wouldn't mess around with this, if i were you. They would be all too happy to yank your conceal and carry for some other stupid offense.

Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:36:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By LandSharkTBC:
. Also make sure that your handgun is of legal caliber to take big game.


Huh? The DNR hunting regs make no statement that a handgun carried by a permit holder must be of a big game caliber.

I don't know how anyone can hunt without going to jail. I've read that whole document several times over the years, and it just gives me a headache trying to understand the whole thing. I pity those who hunt on public land.

What really pisses me off is that I can't even target shoot on my own property during firearms deer season.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:55:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 4:59:01 PM EST by NBot]

Originally Posted By back40:

Originally Posted By LandSharkTBC:
. Also make sure that your handgun is of legal caliber to take big game.


Huh? The DNR hunting regs make no statement that a handgun carried by a permit holder must be of a big game caliber.

I don't know how anyone can hunt without going to jail. I've read that whole document several times over the years, and it just gives me a headache trying to understand the whole thing. I pity those who hunt on public land.

What really pisses me off is that I can't even target shoot on my own property during firearms deer season.


You have to read a little closer... (Can be carried by anyone for legal hunting, Does not need to be a permit holder.) If you don't have your CCW and the gun that you have with is not of legal caliber, you'll get into trouble.. However if you are a CCW, you can carry basically anything you want.

Page 57... Under Legal Firearms for Big Game.

Basically, 10mm, 357, 44mag.. .50 A.E. All the big rounds. Basically something that they know will kill the animal, and not injure them, so they're hopping around the woods.

Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:57:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 5:02:09 PM EST by phorvick]

I'm suprised your conceal and carry didn't cover / touch basis on this. Or someone during your class didn't ask.

your permit DOES not pertain to any other weapon other than handgun.

Your carry gun can be a long gun.

Many instructors have taken the position that after passage of the MCPPA that Permit Holders may legally carry a loaded long gun in public. Forgetting on the debate of whether it is a wise idea to do so, the BCA and DNR agree with that position...as to public carrying.

However, the BCA and DNR continue to instruct their officers that the MCPPA does not trump other legislation that states that, except for a handgun carried by a duly authorized Permit holder, no loaded long gun may be legally transported in your vehicle.

This question often comes up in and around hunting season, so be advised that as far as the legal officials are concerned, the Permit laws have not made the transporting of a loaded long gun in your vehicle a legally viable option.

I have a copy of an e-mail letter from Jeff Luther, BCA, outlining their position. Should you wish to have a copy let me know.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:07:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 5:09:46 PM EST by NBot]

Originally Posted By phorvick:

I'm suprised your conceal and carry didn't cover / touch basis on this. Or someone during your class didn't ask.

your permit DOES not pertain to any other weapon other than handgun.

Your carry gun can be a long gun.

Many instructors have taken the position that after passage of the MCPPA that Permit Holders may legally carry a loaded long gun in public. Forgetting on the debate of whether it is a wise idea to do so, the BCA and DNR agree with that position...as to public carrying.

However, the BCA and DNR continue to instruct their officers that the MCPPA does not trump other legislation that states that, except for a handgun carried by a duly authorized Permit holder, no loaded long gun may be legally transported in your vehicle.

This question often comes up in and around hunting season, so be advised that as far as the legal officials are concerned, the Permit laws have not made the transporting of a loaded long gun in your vehicle a legally viable option.

I have a copy of an e-mail letter from Jeff Luther, BCA, outlining their position. Should you wish to have a copy let me know.



That is interesting. Because by Minnesota Statute, the law specificially reads pistol, when it comes to CCW.

www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/624/714.html

Either way... Any person carrying around a loaded longgun would have to be bonkers!
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 6:04:38 PM EST
My permit specifically says, "Permit to carry a pistol."

Link Posted: 10/29/2006 6:39:02 PM EST
That'll be pretty tough to explain to every single cop who stops me at gunpoint as I'm walking to lunch in Uptown Minneapolis with my AR slung under my jacket tomorrow.



I should probably wear my armor, too.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 1:34:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cataclysm:
My permit specifically says, "Permit to carry a pistol."

Yes, but the DPS/BCA has agreed that Minnesota law, 624.7181 exempts permit holders from the prohibition of carrying a long gun in public. I have written documentation to that effect. In general the analysis is based upon the following:
---
624.7181 Rifles and shotguns in public places.

Subdivision 1. Definitions. For purposes of this section, the following terms have the meanings given them.

(a) "BB gun" means a device that fires or ejects a shot measuring .18 of an inch or less in diameter.

(b) "Carry" does not include:

(1) the carrying of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun to, from, or at a place where firearms are repaired, bought, sold, traded, or displayed, or where hunting, target shooting, or other lawful activity involving firearms occurs, or at funerals, parades, or other lawful ceremonies;

(2) the carrying by a person of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun that is unloaded and in a gun case expressly made to contain a firearm, if the case fully encloses the firearm by being zipped, snapped, buckled, tied, or otherwise fastened, and no portion of the firearm is exposed;

(3) the carrying of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun by a person who has a permit under section 624.714; (i.e. the general prohibition exempts permit holders)

(4) the carrying of an antique firearm as a curiosity or for its historical significance or value; or

(5) the transporting of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun in compliance with section 97B.045.

(c) "Public place" means property owned, leased, or controlled by a governmental unit and private property that is regularly and frequently open to or made available for use by the public in sufficient numbers to give clear notice of the property's current dedication to public use but does not include: a person's dwelling house or premises, the place of business owned or managed by the person, or land possessed by the person; a gun show, gun shop, or hunting or target shooting facility; or the woods, fields, or waters of this state where the person is present lawfully for the purpose of hunting or target shooting or other lawful activity involving firearms.

Subd. 2. Penalties. Whoever carries a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun on or about the person in a public place is guilty of a gross misdemeanor. A person under the age of 21 who carries a semiautomatic military-style assault weapon, as defined in section 624.712, subdivision 7, on or about the person in a public place is guilty of a felony.

---
So, although legal, clearly it is not wise. You will attract the attention of the constabulary and certainly encourage the legislature to consider "correcting" this "problem".

Under the law, it is legal to take your AK47 to the city council meeting and put it on the table and say "Now, let's discuss my zoning petition." Now, that would be one sure way to get this legislation corrected in a hurry (forgetting about any issues of implied threats etc., just looking at the legality of open carrying a long gun as your carry gun.)

Link Posted: 10/30/2006 4:22:39 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By back40:
What really pisses me off is that I can't even target shoot on my own property during firearms deer season.
I've never heard of this. Where is that written? Not disputing you, just curious.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:16:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By phorvick:
Under the law, it is legal to take your AK47 to the city council meeting and put it on the table and say "Now, let's discuss my zoning petition." Now, that would be one sure way to get this legislation corrected in a hurry (forgetting about any issues of implied threats etc., just looking at the legality of open carrying a long gun as your carry gun.) killed before you even set foot in City Hall.


Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:40:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 6:48:47 AM EST by phorvick]

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:

Originally Posted By phorvick:
Under the law, it is legal to take your AK47 to the city council meeting and put it on the table and say "Now, let's discuss my zoning petition." Now, that would be one sure way to get this legislation corrected in a hurry (forgetting about any issues of implied threats etc., just looking at the legality of open carrying a long gun as your carry gun.) killed before you even set foot in City Hall.


Well, that is certainly a potential result. Again, no one is saying it is wise, just that it is legal under current law. Just as is carrying your Glock, or Beretta, or S&W, or Kahr, or Taurus, or Springfield or .....any other handgun openly into the same council meeting. Legal for sure.

There are a lot of things in the law that are legal, but not wise. In MN you can legally carry openly into and have a drink at the local watering hole and be legal (as long as <.04BAC).... whether that is wise is also open to debate. I could also legally open carry in most stores at the MOA (all?? I haven't been there to see how many, if any, of the individual stores post at the MOA). Perfectly legal. Likely somewhat unwise as well!

I can go to the airport, open carry while wearing a shirt that promotes some type of anti-government radicalism. Again, legal...but not wise.

Personally I tend to take a fairly conservative approach to where I carry as I generally am not interested in making a point or having my journey turn into an LEO encounter with possible negative results...even if legal. I guess I like the more hassle free life.

But, I do know what is possible to do, even if somewhat on the Homer Simpson side of good sense. :)

Link Posted: 10/30/2006 7:10:39 AM EST
The only thing I'll dispute is by arguing for public carry of long guns and open carry of all guns, we will likely get a lot of opposition that we do not need right now. It's very likely that a few "open carry" occurrances may ruin concealed carry for all of us. Out of sight, out of mind.

Plus, Bemidji is not Uptown. Open carry in downtown Morris (if there is a downtown) is a lot different than Downtown St. Paul.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 7:16:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 7:36:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
The only thing I'll dispute is by arguing for public carry of long guns and open carry of all guns, we will likely get a lot of opposition that we do not need right now. It's very likely that a few "open carry" occurrances may ruin concealed carry for all of us. Out of sight, out of mind.

Plus, Bemidji is not Uptown. Open carry in downtown Morris (if there is a downtown) is a lot different than Downtown St. Paul.
Agreed. We do not need the legislature to "correct" the deficiencies in the law. But, it is important to know the boundaries of legality. Whether they are pushed is something that I am not interested in doing, at least not in this political climate.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:44:20 PM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Outdoor shooting is prohibited from now (10/30) untill the end of the deer hunting season, Unless of course you have a deer tag on your person and you are in the correct zone for that fireaerm that you want to shoot outdoors.


Wow, that's pretty harsh. No exemptions for being on a range or anything? What about trap or sporting clays clubs? Heck, any outdoor gun club? Seems to be a prime example of what happens when you let gov't regulate something. They pass regulations willy-nilly with no forethought to people's rights. And this all over the king's deer, a glorified (although tasty) forest rat.

If I had land of my own to shoot on, I'd be damned if I'd let some bureaucrat tell me I couldn't target shoot at certain times of the year.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 1:18:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 1:23:22 PM EST by booniehat223]
all this mess is why my carry gun during deer season, whether I'm hunting or not is my 4" 686.

eta - enjoy hunting this year guys...leave some for me next year
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 1:31:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By halvey:

Originally Posted By back40:
What really pisses me off is that I can't even target shoot on my own property during firearms deer season.
I've never heard of this. Where is that written? Not disputing you, just curious.



Outdoor shooting is prohibited from now (10/30) untill the end of the deer hunting season, Unless of course you have a deer tag on your person and you are in the correct zone for that fireaerm that you want to shoot outdoors.





That is not entirely true, A person can still go out with a 22 long, short, or long rifle from a pistol or rifle or a shotgun w/ no. 4 bird shot or smaller. And on designated ranges. Can not have anything else outdoors 5 days before opener and 3 days after the season closes. CCW is exempt for your carry piece.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 2:48:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By Meat:

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By halvey:

Originally Posted By back40:
What really pisses me off is that I can't even target shoot on my own property during firearms deer season.
I've never heard of this. Where is that written? Not disputing you, just curious.



Outdoor shooting is prohibited from now (10/30) untill the end of the deer hunting season, Unless of course you have a deer tag on your person and you are in the correct zone for that fireaerm that you want to shoot outdoors.





That is not entirely true, A person can still go out with a 22 long, short, or long rifle from a pistol or rifle or a shotgun w/ no. 4 bird shot or smaller. And on designated ranges. Can not have anything else outdoors 5 days before opener and 3 days after the season closes. CCW is exempt for your carry piece.


What about Duck and Pheasant hunters?
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:25:41 PM EST
It all boils down to common sense. Alot of the game laws are written with alot of room for the conservation officer to use his judgement. as far as the duck and pheasant hunting goes "thats" hunting not target shooting.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:29:53 PM EST
My Glock 19 has a plug in it limiting it to 3 rounds for a few weeks.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:42:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
My Glock 19 has a plug in it limiting it to 3 rounds for a few weeks.




Link Posted: 10/31/2006 3:31:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By XDBACKUPGUN:

What about Duck and Pheasant hunters?


You would be subject to the same restrictions....You shouldn't carry anything bigger than #4 shot with you.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 3:31:36 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
My Glock 19 has a plug in it limiting it to 3 rounds for a few weeks.
I'm sure that'll be part of the new AWB when some of these Democrats get elected.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 4:54:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 5:15:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By halvey:

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
My Glock 19 has a plug in it limiting it to 3 rounds for a few weeks.
I'm sure that'll be part of the new AWB when some of these Democrats get elected.


You've got your chance next week.



VOTE!
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 5:56:16 AM EST
+1
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 3:21:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2006 3:22:03 PM EST by XDBACKUPGUN]

Originally Posted By back40:

Originally Posted By XDBACKUPGUN:

What about Duck and Pheasant hunters?


You would be subject to the same restrictions....You shouldn't carry anything bigger than #4 shot with you.



That is .

I never use anything smaller than #2 shot this time of year for Ducks..........good luck shooting geese with #4 shot.

Someone needs to reread the Regulations.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 3:27:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
The only thing I'll dispute is by arguing for public carry of long guns and open carry of all guns, we will likely get a lot of opposition that we do not need right now. It's very likely that a few "open carry" occurrances may ruin concealed carry for all of us. Out of sight, out of mind.

Plus, Bemidji is not Uptown. Open carry in downtown Morris (if there is a downtown) is a lot different than Downtown St. Paul.
If it is a weekend, downtown Morris will most likely have more people in it. Seriously.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 5:40:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2006 5:41:35 AM EST by mcnielsen]

Originally Posted By DangerousNinja:

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:

Plus, Bemidji is not Uptown. Open carry in downtown Morris (if there is a downtown) is a lot different than Downtown St. Paul.
If it is a weekend, downtown Morris will most likely have more people in it. Seriously.


OK, how about Maynard, MN, then. Sorry to offend any Morris folks out there.



ETA: BTW, I grew up in Willmar, so I know what I'm talking about, too!
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 8:10:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By DangerousNinja:
If it is a weekend, downtown Morris will most likely have more people in it. Seriously.


Haha thats somewhat true, it can stay that way too (I live in downtown St Paul).
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 9:10:55 AM EST
most of waterfowl hunter's use larger than #4 shot. in fact #4 shot is not big enough to effectivly kill geese. Common sense tells you not to be walking around in the woods wth large shot. but on the other hand sitting over duck or goose decoy's is another matter. alot of the laws are enforced bye conservation officers discression. common sense is all it takes
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