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11/24/2017 4:44:23 PM
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/22/2004 5:44:46 PM EST
I found in the weapons posession law that "self defense sprays" are legal. is 10% Oleoresin Capsicum legal in NY? I was thinking of ordering one of these along with the decent deal on a surefire g2 from the survival forum
www.lapolicegear.com/fedlabdefmk6.html
g2 deal
lapolicegear.com/sug2ni.html
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:43:52 PM EST
Not for non LEO; must be less than 1/2 oz, no more than 7 %, and nothing mixed in with the OC such as CS/CN.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 1:39:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By sharky30:
I found in the weapons posession law that "self defense sprays" are legal. is 10% Oleoresin Capsicum legal in NY? I was thinking of ordering one of these along with the decent deal on a surefire g2 from the survival forum
www.lapolicegear.com/fedlabdefmk6.html
g2 deal
lapolicegear.com/sug2ni.html



They also have decent prices on the 5.11 Tactical clothing.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 12:41:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 2:02:50 PM EST
I didn't see anything on that site saying it was restricted shipping to NY
decided to be cautitious and not order the pepper spray until I find the law that says exactly what types are legal
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 2:18:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:
I thought you could only buy pepper spray from a gunshop in NY? Can you mail order it?




The only authorized retail outlets in NYSfor OC are gun dealers and phramacies.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:11:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 3:14:15 PM EST by rkbar15]
Sharky, as TCSD said you can only legally purchase NYS approved "self-defense" spray in NY from a NYS firearms dealer or a licensed pharmacist. You also cannot purchase it from out of state and legally bring it back to NY or have it shipped to NY.

ARTICLE 265
FIREARMS AND OTHER DANGEROUS WEAPONS
Section 265.00 Definitions.

S 265.00 Definitions.
As used in this article and in article four hundred, the following
terms shall mean and include:

…………………………………………….

16. "Certified not suitable to possess a self-defense spray device, a
rifle or shotgun" means that the director or physician in charge of any
hospital or institution for mental illness, public or private, has
certified to the superintendent of state police or to any organized
police department of a county, city, town or village of this state, that
a person who has been judicially adjudicated incompetent, or who has
been confined to such institution for mental illness pursuant to
judicial authority, is not suitable to possess a self-defense spray
device, as defined in section 265.20 of this article, or a rifle or
shotgun.

S 265.20 Exemptions.
a. Sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05, 265.10, 265.11,
265.12, 265.13, 265.15 and 270.05 shall not apply to:
1. Possession of any of the weapons, instruments, appliances or
substances specified in sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05
and 270.05 by the following:

………………………………………………

14. Possession in accordance with the provisions of this paragraph of
a self-defense spray device as defined herein for the protection of a
person or property and use of such self-defense spray device under
circumstances which would justify the use of physical force pursuant to
article thirty-five of this chapter.
(a) As used in this section "self-defense spray device" shall mean a
pocket sized spray device which contains and releases a chemical or
organic substance which is intended to produce temporary physical
discomfort or disability through being vaporized or otherwise dispensed
in the air or any like device containing tear gas, pepper or similar
disabling agent.
(b) The exemption under this paragraph shall not apply to a person
who:
(i) is less than eighteen years of age; or
(ii) has been previously convicted in this state of a felony or any
assault; or
(iii) has been convicted of a crime outside the state of New York
which if committed in New York would constitute a felony or any assault
crime.
(c) The department of health, with the cooperation of the division of
criminal justice services and the superintendent of state police, shall
develop standards and promulgate regulations regarding the type of
self-defense spray device which may lawfully be purchased, possessed and
used pursuant to this paragraph. The regulations shall include a
requirement that every self-defense spray device which may be lawfully
purchased, possessed or used pursuant to this paragraph have a label
which states: "WARNING: The use of this substance or device for any
purpose other than self-defense is a criminal offense under the law. The
contents are dangerous - use with care. This device shall not be sold by
anyone other than a licensed or authorized dealer. Possession of this
device by any person under the age of eighteen or by anyone who has been
convicted of a felony or assault is illegal. Violators may be prosecuted
under the law."
15. Possession and sale of a self-defense spray device as defined in
paragraph fourteen of this subdivision by a dealer in firearms licensed
pursuant to section 400.00 of this chapter, a pharmacist licensed
pursuant to article one hundred thirty-seven of the education law or by
such other vendor as may be authorized and approved by the
superintendent of state police.
(a) Every self-defense spray device shall be accompanied by an insert
or inserts which include directions for use, first aid information,
safety and storage information and which shall also contain a toll free
telephone number for the purpose of allowing any purchaser to call and
receive additional information regarding the availability of local
courses in self-defense training and safety in the use of a self-defense
spray device.
(b) Before delivering a self-defense spray device to any person, the
licensed or authorized dealer shall require proof of age and a sworn
statement on a form approved by the superintendent of state police that
such person has not been convicted of a felony or any crime involving an
assault. Such forms shall be forwarded to the division of state police
at such intervals as directed by the superintendent of state police.
Absent any such direction the forms shall be maintained on the premises
of the vendor and shall be open at all reasonable hours for inspection
by any peace officer or police officer, acting pursuant to his or her
special duties. No more than two self-defense spray devices may be sold
at any one time to a single purchaser.


http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?cl=82&a=68
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:18:34 PM EST
Does anyone know the legality of using it in Jersey?
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 8:30:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
Sharky, as TCSD said you can only legally purchase NYS approved "self-defense" spray in NY from a NYS firearms dealer or a licensed pharmacist. You also cannot purchase it from out of state and legally bring it back to NY or have it shipped to NY.



Does anyone else find these laws to be ridiculous? Why even bother following them?

I buy my pepper spray from a store that is neither a gun store, nor a pharmacy and it's up around 15% OC. I have been frisked by the cops with it and never had a problem. So I guess I am a criminal 3 ways already. And now that I've posted this the cops will kick down my door and haul me in any minute now!

-Nick Viejo.

P.S. If anyone needs me, I will be hiding under my bed.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 11:34:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By sjauch:
Does anyone know the legality of using it in Jersey?



I'm pretty sure that pepper spray(and stun guns) are completely prohibited in NJ.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 11:39:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 11:42:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By N_Viejo:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
Sharky, as TCSD said you can only legally purchase NYS approved "self-defense" spray in NY from a NYS firearms dealer or a licensed pharmacist. You also cannot purchase it from out of state and legally bring it back to NY or have it shipped to NY.



Does anyone else find these laws to be ridiculous? Why even bother following them?

I buy my pepper spray from a store that is neither a gun store, nor a pharmacy and it's up around 15% OC. I have been frisked by the cops with it and never had a problem. So I guess I am a criminal 3 ways already. And now that I've posted this the cops will kick down my door and haul me in any minute now!

-Nick Viejo.

P.S. If anyone needs me, I will be hiding under my bed.



Just out of curiosity, did you fill out the OC transfer form when you bought your OC?
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 11:45:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 11:47:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By tcsd1236:


Just out of curiosity, did you fill out the OC transfer form when you bought your OC?



Would this be a bad time to ask "The what?"


Part of the deal with NY being so anal about legalizing OC was a requirement in the original legislation that when a canister is sold, there is a form that has to be filled out by both the seller and buyer and maintained by the seller.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 11:56:19 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 12:12:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By tcsd1236:


Just out of curiosity, did you fill out the OC transfer form when you bought your OC?



Would this be a bad time to ask "The what?"





(b) Before delivering a self-defense spray device to any person, the
licensed or authorized dealer shall require proof of age and a sworn
statement on a form approved by the superintendent of state police that
such person has not been convicted of a felony or any crime involving an
assault. Such forms shall be forwarded to the division of state police
at such intervals as directed by the superintendent of state police.
Absent any such direction the forms shall be maintained on the premises
of the vendor and shall be open at all reasonable hours for inspection
by any peace officer or police officer, acting pursuant to his or her
special duties. No more than two self-defense spray devices may be sold
at any one time to a single purchaser.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 12:19:38 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 12:56:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 4:51:38 AM EST by sterling18]
WTF, you need to sign something for this. Shit, why don't they just make you call the BATF for approval to buy this. Oh, wait, because not even the ATF wants any part of this stupidity.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 1:05:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:
All I have to say is "My that is certainly a surprise!"

Hey what's a good civilian legal pepper spray? Someone used all mine up on some wildlife...



I sell Mace brand 5.5 % OC. It's strong enough that it works quickly and decontaminates in a shorter period of time than some of the higher per centage brands and mixtures. Its the same stuff we carry on duty at TCSD...the Mk VI model falls within the quantity restriction NYS imposes. Everyone has their favorites, and I am sure that others will jump in with commentary about varying SHU's of different brands.
Just my .02, YMMV.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 1:21:14 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 5:16:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2004 5:28:13 PM EST by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Hey look, just because you sleep with the penal code under your pillow doesn't mean the rest of us do smarty pants...



Prison legal library. I've got nothing but time on my hands!

As many PO's will tell you pepper spray is a two edged sword. You may end up incapacitating yourself and if you do carry it and don't use it and use DPF instead you MAY have an additional liability/DPF issue.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 5:30:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 6:14:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
As many PO's will tell you pepper spray is a two edged sword. You may end up incapacitating yourself and if you do carry it and don't use it and use DPF instead you MAY have an additional liability/DPF issue.


I don't agree with that statement; if you are legally able to employ DPF, nothing requires you to exhaust lower levels of force before employing DPF when permissible. Officers are not required to start at verbal , work their way up through baton, OC, etc, before employing their sidearm. Nor are you required to meet a higher threat ( person armed with a weapon themselves, for instance) with a lower use of force such as OC. If time and the situation permits, it might look better that you TRIED to defuse the threat with a lower level of force such as OC, but I would not feel any less entitled to meet a DPF situation with DPF simply because I happen to carry OC as well.If anything, it is a lower use of force to counter a situation BEFORE it gets to the point of having to employ your firearm. It shows that you are MORE prepared to act at a lower level of force BEFORE things get to a DPF situation.

Citizens in DPF situations are more likely to get in a bind because they did not retreat before employing DPF in a scenario where that should have been the appropriate course of action.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 4:43:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By tcsd1236:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
As many PO's will tell you pepper spray is a two edged sword. You may end up incapacitating yourself and if you do carry it and don't use it and use DPF instead you MAY have an additional liability/DPF issue.


I don't agree with that statement; if you are legally able to employ DPF, nothing requires you to exhaust lower levels of force before employing DPF when permissible. Officers are not required to start at verbal , work their way up through baton, OC, etc, before employing their sidearm. Nor are you required to meet a higher threat ( person armed with a weapon themselves, for instance) with a lower use of force such as OC. If time and the situation permits, it might look better that you TRIED to defuse the threat with a lower level of force such as OC, but I would not feel any less entitled to meet a DPF situation with DPF simply because I happen to carry OC as well.If anything, it is a lower use of force to counter a situation BEFORE it gets to the point of having to employ your firearm. It shows that you are MORE prepared to act at a lower level of force BEFORE things get to a DPF situation.

Citizens in DPF situations are more likely to get in a bind because they did not retreat before employing DPF in a scenario where that should have been the appropriate course of action.



The valid points you make are all part of the non-lethal/DPH decisions that a PO has to make in specific situation. As you know departmental regulations and civil liability litigation may still hold you responsible for the excessive use of force even if you are justified in its use under the criminal provisions of the Penal Law.

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