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Posted: 3/27/2009 5:34:25 PM EDT
Hey,
I was wondering if anyone could clarify what it means in Michigan that you can't have ammo in the "same" case as a firearm. I have a drag bag for one of my rifles with MOLLE attachments which I have covered in pouches holding odds, ends, and magazines and/or ammo. I had a range officer / nazi / moron tell me that it counted as "in the same container" and was not allowed. The bag is in the trunk when driving.

Thoughts?
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 7:05:37 PM EDT
Firearms Related Issues FAQ - Per Michigan State Police
MSP site link (pdf)
Posted: June 16, 2008

Firearms-related frequently raised issues
What follows are the short answers to those firearms-related questions most often asked by police officers and the public.

........

Transporting ammunition and long-guns
MCL 750.227d describes the lawful way to transport a shotgun or rifle. While they must be unloaded, they may be transported in the same case as ammunition (including loaded magazines).

.........
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++­+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Language from some years back used to say "separate closed container" for ammunition; apparently doesn't now.

Link Posted: 3/27/2009 8:35:56 PM EDT
If I am reading that correctly, we can throw our AR into a bag along with fully loaded magazines and stay legal?

Why have I been removing rounds off the mag, driving the range, and then popping them back in?

This is news to me...
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:39:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Honray:
If I am reading that correctly, we can throw our AR into a bag along with fully loaded magazines and stay legal?Why have I been removing rounds off the mag, driving the range, and then popping them back in?

This is news to me...


YES.


as far as the second part, you obviously didn't know better. No harm no foul.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 6:11:19 AM EDT
This is where the confusion comes in...

324.43513 Carrying, transporting, or possessing firearm, slingshot, bow and arrow, or crossbow; hunting
license not required; carrying or possessing unloaded weapon.
Sec. 43513. (1) A person may carry, transport, or possess a firearm without a hunting license if the firearm is unloaded
in both barrel and magazine and either enclosed in a case or carried in a vehicle in a location that is not readily accessible
to any occupant of the vehicle. A person may carry, transport, or possess a slingshot, bow and arrow, or crossbow without
a hunting license if the slingshot, bow, or crossbow is unstrung, enclosed in a case, or carried in a vehicle in a location that
is not readily accessible to any occupant of the vehicle.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/firearms.pdf
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 8:03:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2009 8:03:59 AM EDT by Zardonavis]
.snip... license if the firearm is unloaded
in both barrel and magazine and either enclosed ... snip..



Asked a friend who is a st clare sheriff this question, beacuse my ar case has pouches for mags built into it. He said Alot of magiazine's are perma-attached. Ie not removable from the gun. He said, no ammon in the chamber of a gun or any attched magazines to said gun, and i was OK.


Zar
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 12:46:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zardonavis:
.snip... license if the firearm is unloaded
in both barrel and magazine and either enclosed ... snip..



Asked a friend who is a st clare sheriff this question, beacuse my ar case has pouches for mags built into it. He said Alot of magiazine's are perma-attached. Ie not removable from the gun. He said, no ammon in the chamber of a gun or any attched magazines to said gun, and i was OK.


Zar


yup, once the magazine is removed from the gun, it becomes an ammunition storage box
Link Posted: 3/30/2009 4:15:43 AM EDT
I understand what you guys are telling me but what stops an overzealous prossecuting attorney from looking at it another way? Has there been an AG opinion issued? Without that, I am going to keep it on the safe side and always bring my ak pistol with me...(cpl)
Link Posted: 3/30/2009 4:25:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zardonavis:
.snip... license if the firearm is unloaded
in both barrel and magazine and either enclosed ... snip..



Asked a friend who is a st clare sheriff this question, beacuse my ar case has pouches for mags built into it. He said Alot of magiazine's are perma-attached. Ie not removable from the gun. He said, no ammon in the chamber of a gun or any attched magazines to said gun, and i was OK.


Zar


I hear what you are saying but that conversation will not hold up in court. The "law" says nothing about whether the magazine is attached or not. One could argue that although the magazine is not attached, it takes but a second to attach it. I don't like that possibility in court.
Link Posted: 3/30/2009 6:28:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Greg_W:
Originally Posted By Zardonavis:
.snip... license if the firearm is unloaded
in both barrel and magazine and either enclosed ... snip..



Asked a friend who is a st clare sheriff this question, beacuse my ar case has pouches for mags built into it. He said Alot of magiazine's are perma-attached. Ie not removable from the gun. He said, no ammon in the chamber of a gun or any attched magazines to said gun, and i was OK.


Zar


I hear what you are saying but that conversation will not hold up in court. The "law" says nothing about whether the magazine is attached or not. One could argue that although the magazine is not attached, it takes but a second to attach it. I don't like that possibility in court.



What if the magazine & ammo are clearly separated from the rifle in a different part of the car? e.g., rifle in case in trunk & loaded magazine in back seat in a backpack.


Link Posted: 3/30/2009 8:52:17 AM EDT
I don't know.
One could still argue that the ammo is still in the magazine no matter where it is in the vehicle.
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