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12/6/2019 7:27:02 PM
Posted: 5/16/2008 9:18:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/19/2008 6:20:12 AM EST by GoDrNo]
Has anyone else run into their city's PD instituting a "de facto" "cooling off" period when applying for a purchase to permit a handgun using the guise of being understaffed and not able to process the requests for a 5 day period?

I am going to the Birch Run gun show tomorrow and wanted to take an AR to sell and maybe pick up a handgun, so this morning I went to my local PD and filled out the paper work, took the required test and passed with 100%. The lady manning the desk took my paperwork and test and says "ok we will call you when your purchase permit is ready." I asked her how soon I should expect the call because I was heading up to the Birch Run gun show early on Sat. morning and she says to me "you won't have the permit by then, it usually takes 3-5 business days, sometimes longer." I know for a fact they can have the whole procedure done within an hour (my brother is a LEO in another city in MI and his dept. regularly gets them done in under an hour). I then said to her "I thought there was no waiting period in MI?" and she informed me that the wait was do to being understaffed (total BS).

Needless to say I was pissed, I didn't say much at the PD since I didn't want to end up in the pokey but I did call the state Attorney General's office, the lady who answered the phone in the criminal division didn't have a clue as to a wait period in MI (so I informed her there was none) and she told me they couldn't help and to call my city's Prosecutor's office (like that would get me anything but a denied permit to purchase). I was just wondering how many other people have run into this sort of situation?
Link Posted: 5/16/2008 9:24:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/16/2008 9:36:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/16/2008 9:37:56 AM EST by GoDrNo]

Originally Posted By AnchorArmament:
Most PD's take less than 15 min. I'd say you need to get your CPL. Then you don't have to get the purchase permit.


Yeah I would but I'm moving to AZ in about 6 weeks and figured I would just get it there. It still doesn't change the fact that the local PD/city gov't seem to be instituting their own law (using the excuse of being understaffed) which doesn't hold true to the state law.

ETA I really want to drive to the PD and tell them how wrong I think it all is, but more likely than not I would end up denied on my permit and/or tazered and locked up for one reason or another. I felt it was much better for me to just leave (because I was pretty angry about the whole thing)
Link Posted: 5/16/2008 9:38:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/16/2008 9:40:20 AM EST by cybersniper]
I picked up a permit this week at Macomb Co SD, went directly to the dealer to pick up my pistol, and right back to SD to register. If it wasnt for the drive time Id have completed the sale and registered it in 15 mins.

What PD are you talking about?
Link Posted: 5/16/2008 9:46:03 AM EST
I really didn't want to say, but I guess it won't hurt anything, seems as if there is no way I'll have the permit in time for the show tomorrow and I can always just wait until I move to AZ and get one after my move. The city is Farmington.
Link Posted: 5/16/2008 9:49:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/16/2008 9:50:27 AM EST by sgtlmj]
According to the AG the PD must issue permits during all hours of operation.

firearmsalliance.org/testing/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23&Itemid=2

In summary:

Local departments may NOT charge for permits. They may charge up to the statutory limit of $10 to notarize a permit but they may not require you to have it done by them. The permit itself must be issued at no charge.

Hours that permits are available. Permits must be issued during any hours a department conducts any other normal business.

There is no limit on the number of permits that a person can obtain at one time.

There is no local waiting permit allowed. A permit must be issued on your initial visit.

A local PD may not collect information beyond that required in statute.

Departments are allowed, in fact required to keep a file or database of all registered pistols and their owners.

Link Posted: 5/16/2008 9:51:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/16/2008 10:07:33 AM EST by GoDrNo]

Originally Posted By sgtlmj:
According to the AG the PD must issue permits during all hours of operation.

firearmsalliance.org/testing/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23&Itemid=2

In summary:

Local departments may NOT charge for permits. They may charge up to the statutory limit of $10 to notarize a permit but they may not require you to have it done by them. The permit itself must be issued at no charge.

Hours that permits are available. Permits must be issued during any hours a department conducts any other normal business.

There is no limit on the number of permits that a person can obtain at one time.

There is no local waiting permit allowed. A permit must be issued on your initial visit.

A local PD may not collect information beyond that required in statute.

Departments are allowed, in fact required to keep a file or database of all registered pistols and their owners.



Thank you for that bit of info, I might just have to call the city attorney.

ETA all the links for the information on the opinion by the AG are dead links, and I can't find the opinion anywhere in the official state of MI database
Link Posted: 5/16/2008 9:56:35 AM EST
Call anyone and everyone you can. I'm sick of local PDs trying to institute their own law.
Link Posted: 5/16/2008 10:28:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/16/2008 10:34:42 AM EST by GoDrNo]
I just called the State Police and the lady who handles this type situation is out of the office until Monday.

ETA the City's Attorney office was absolutely non helpful, told me to hire a lawyer.
Link Posted: 5/16/2008 10:56:02 AM EST
Can you visit the Sheriff instead? Not sure if that is possible or not.

I get mine from the Sheriff Department where I live and mine was approved and handed to me in the time it took me to complete the silly quiz. Took maybe 5 minutes at most.
Link Posted: 5/16/2008 2:20:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By GoDrNo:
I just called the State Police and the lady who handles this type situation is out of the office until Monday.

I do not believe that is going to be of any help. The Firearms Records Dept is great for giving you the low-down on the law, but they cannot do anything about your local police department's stupid policies.
Link Posted: 5/16/2008 3:28:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By GoDrNo:
I really didn't want to say, but I guess it won't hurt anything, seems as if there is no way I'll have the permit in time for the show tomorrow and I can always just wait until I move to AZ and get one after my move. The city is Farmington.


Does Farmington and Farmington Hills share the same location for getting your permit? I'm in Farmington Hills, and they used to have up to a 13 day max and 6 day min wait depending on which day you came in. I've brought up the issue to the ladies but they say its the boss that states that policy.
Link Posted: 5/16/2008 4:34:53 PM EST
There is absolutely NO penalty for local jurisdictions failing to obey the orders of the Attorney General.
The permit system and registration need to be abolished.
Link Posted: 5/16/2008 5:04:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By dougwtx:

Originally Posted By GoDrNo:
I really didn't want to say, but I guess it won't hurt anything, seems as if there is no way I'll have the permit in time for the show tomorrow and I can always just wait until I move to AZ and get one after my move. The city is Farmington.


Does Farmington and Farmington Hills share the same location for getting your permit? I'm in Farmington Hills, and they used to have up to a 13 day max and 6 day min wait depending on which day you came in. I've brought up the issue to the ladies but they say its the boss that states that policy.


No they have seperate Police Departments and handle this seperately. I wasn't very surprised though when I looked up Farmington Hills policy and found the long waiting time.
Link Posted: 5/16/2008 5:09:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/16/2008 5:12:17 PM EST by GoDrNo]

Originally Posted By anotherlefty:
There is absolutely NO penalty for local jurisdictions failing to obey the orders of the Attorney General.
The permit system and registration need to be abolished.


I hear ya lefty, everyplace I called today that was connected with the state gov't was pretty much a non help. The state police person who I talked to (after a few transfers) seemed interested in it and connected me to someone who she said handled this type of thing but I'm sure it will lead nowhere when I call them on Monday. The thing that surprised me most was the fact of how many people employed by the state and local gov't (people in the State Attorney's General office and the person in the Farmington Attorney's office that I spoke to) who have absolutely ZERO knowledge of firearms laws and policies, they all seem to pretty much have the Guns=bad attitude and seem insulted that a person would even raise a fuss over such an issue.

ETA My experience today has done nothing but solidify my thinking that it is a great time to be leaving Michigan (which saddens me in a lot of ways) and made me look foward to my move to AZ in a month and 1/2.
Link Posted: 5/16/2008 5:21:03 PM EST
Anotherlefty,
BTW I just wanted to say "thanks" for the advice you gave me about MIADS, I ordered one when I ordered my BOB from LaRue and I absolutely love it. Thanks again for all the time you spent BS'in with me at the last Gibraltor Taylor show.
Link Posted: 5/17/2008 2:33:07 AM EST
I'm sure Larue appreciated my effort as well!
Link Posted: 5/17/2008 5:25:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By anotherlefty:
I'm sure Larue appreciated my effort as well!


Haha, he appreciated it so much he took his business elsewhere. Nice
Link Posted: 5/17/2008 12:26:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By anotherlefty:
I'm sure Larue appreciated my effort as well!


Aww, don't be like that I believe I bought 3 PMags, 3 Magpuls and 2 rail ladders from you at the show and gladly would have spent more if you had a MIAD and a couple more rail ladders in FDE, but you were still waiting on your Magpul order to come in and mentioned that they had been slow in shipping lately. I just happened to order a rifle bug-out-bag from LaRue because they were on sale and figured since your were out on the MIAD in FDE that I would order it from them while I was paying for shipping anyways. Didn't mean to offend you in anyway. Sorry if I did.
Link Posted: 5/17/2008 4:23:15 PM EST
Not offended, just thought it was pretty funny.
Link Posted: 5/18/2008 2:51:22 AM EST
In regards to complaining about the permit wait.

The order of complaint is.

1. Chief's office-He needs to know that his department is violating the law.
2. Mayor's Office-The Mayor needs to know that the Chief is violating the law
3. City Council Member- Call one of your city council members and complain.

If you get no suitable response, take it to a city council meeting. They need to know that the city is violating the law.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 11:41:59 AM EST
Does anyone have a live link or pdf. of the AG's opinion? I am going to push the issue with the Wayne police Dept. and their 3 day waiting period. I have contacted the AG"s office and have inquired about filing an official complaint. I would like to present the cheif with a copy of the opinion. Thanks!
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 2:03:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By monkeyman:
In regards to complaining about the permit wait.

The order of complaint is.

1. Chief's office-He needs to know that his department is violating the law.
2. Mayor's Office-The Mayor needs to know that the Chief is violating the law
3. City Council Member- Call one of your city council members and complain.

If you get no suitable response, take it to a city council meeting. They need to know that the city is violating the law.


Is there actually a law stating no waiting periods or is it just some rule or opinion? If law, does someone have a link. I called FHPD yesterday on the 2nd and they told me the permit would be ready to pick up on June 12. Thanks.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 3:25:00 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 3:48:07 PM EST
Thanks for the link.
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