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Posted: 7/2/2012 6:14:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2012 7:08:55 AM EDT by Texas_Infidel]
So my kid has his birthday party at our house. Laser tag and pool party.   Good times.   As the party is winding down a few of the dads and myself are talking a swath of different topics when guns come up.  Pretty easy topic at my house being that a Vickers water cooled machine gun is in the dinning room and a M2 50 is mounted in my office.  

One of the dads is a federally of some flavor.  I think it's Customs, but not sure.  He works helicopter and boat crews doing who knows what.   They have cool shit to play with, and I've gotten to fuck around with some of it a few times when I'm not in jail.    Anyway we start talking guns and shooting and of course shooting under water since most his shit is done in open waters.  He had never shot a gun underwater so I said no better time than the present.  So I went and got a Glock 19.  

Now this isn't a shooting underwater review so I'm gonna skip most of all that, unless anyone has questions about it.

So, I load the 19 and toss it into the deep end of the pool.  My youngest swims down and brings it back up for me.  I shoot a couple rounds then I hand it to the popo, and tell him what to expect, what happens with different type of cartridges, etc., general bs.  He fires off a few rounds, and so does a couple other dads.  Then my son takes a couple shoots, and so do all the other kids that are left.  

So as we are chewing the fat, he asks about if I've shot a .40 underwater cause that is what he carries.  I said no, and of course what happens? I go get a G22 and some ammo.   Interesting the .40 bullets travel farther underwater than the 9mm and 45.  The .45 travels the shortest distance under water  The .40 also has less "zapping" under water compared to the 9mm and 45.

So at this point we have an HK Tactical .45 out.  Would only shoot 4-5 rounds then up and quit firing.  It was hitting the primer but not hard enough to fire it.  We started to theorize that the water was slowing the exposed hammer just enough for light hits.   So I went and grabbed a striker fired .45. Taurus tactical.   It fired a couple of the dented .45s from the HK but wasnt doing much better.  So our theory was shot.  (Exposed hammer vs. striker fired).   Then we figured let's just put the muzzle in the water and see if they shoot.  Bang everytime.  We were starting to think water had gotten into the cartridge, but it hadn't.  So who knows. Maybe the long fat slide of a 45 just is too much mass in water that it slows where shit just doesn't want to work underwater.    I was disappointed in the HK because a have a  HK USP SD 9mm that works all the time underwater with or without a suppressor.  So the .45 going to shit was a real bummer.  Who cares, let's get to the AR!

So of course it's time to see what an AR15 will do.  So I go grab a bushmaster.  It's a carbon model 15 I think.  First round bang.  Wow.  Not much, other than a  big swirl of water but bullet travel is maybe 6-8 feet in front of the barrel underwater.   Pull the gun up, cycle it, submerge it again, pull the trigger, boom.   Gun blows up.  Whole upper is destroyed as well as magazine.   Shit is all over the bottom of the pool.  Bolt is split in half, and carrier looks like a blooming flower.  

Out of our afternoon of water blasting some things we learned

.40 travels the farthest under water a good 7-8' farther than the second place 9mm and almost twice the distance of a .45.  The .223 with highest velocity, both rounds went same distance and went nowhere.  Only 6-8' from the barrel.  We speculated with velocity and bullet shape the .223 would travel the farthest by far.  Didn't happen.  

I'll post pics of the AR in a little bit.  

Link Posted: 7/2/2012 6:29:10 AM EDT
Parties and guns, typical.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 6:42:40 AM EDT
I heard .22 travels the furthest!
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 6:44:42 AM EDT
I've read about problems with the BM carbons.  

How do your MP5s & other ARs work underwater?  Have you tried the effects of water on your 50BMG??  I'm also curious if you have shot while underwater yourself?  If so, how loud is the gun?
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 7:06:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tboy:
I've read about problems with the BM carbons.  

How do your MP5s & other ARs work underwater?  Have you tried the effects of water on your 50BMG??  I'm also curious if you have shot while underwater yourself?  If so, how loud is the gun?



Haven't tried an MP5 but I probably will now that you ask.  I'm curious if it'll run full auto.  Doubt it, but one way to find out.  Only water with the 50 is rain water or shooting at water.   I don't think I'll try that underwater.   I stick with pistols mostly to shoot fish or crap underwater.   It's not loud.  Has a snap but you won't get any ringing in your ears.   Its far louder above water than below water   I'll go underwater and let my kids shoot so I can watch the bullet travel.  It's kinda cool.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 7:07:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 7:07:27 AM EDT
I heard this was a problem in Vietnam. Not sure how modern troops deal with it.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 7:09:54 AM EDT
all that and no one thought to break out a camera?
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 7:26:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Texas_Infidel:
Originally Posted By Tboy:
I've read about problems with the BM carbons.  

How do your MP5s & other ARs work underwater?  Have you tried the effects of water on your 50BMG??  I'm also curious if you have shot while underwater yourself?  If so, how loud is the gun?



Haven't tried an MP5 but I probably will now that you ask.  I'm curious if it'll run full auto.  Doubt it, but one way to find out.  Only water with the 50 is rain water or shooting at water.   I don't think I'll try that underwater.   I stick with pistols mostly to shoot fish or crap underwater.   It's not loud.  Has a snap but you won't get any ringing in your ears.   Its far louder above water than below water   I'll go underwater and let my kids shoot so I can watch the bullet travel.  It's kinda cool.


You NEED to get an underwater camera and post the videos here.

It might be more dangerous but I'm curious if you have tried to shoot a pistol from under water upward at a target?  Do you have any issues with your suppressors while shooting underwater?  Also, have you tested how long you can keep a gun underwater and it still function?  

I see a new "Box of Truth" called "Pool of Truth".
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 9:45:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2012 9:46:35 AM EDT by geegee]
Originally Posted By Lokicola:
all that and no one thought to break out a camera?

No kidding. I hope Old Painless sees this. It's "The Pool of Truth."

ETA: Jeez, I should have finished reading all the replies.

Link Posted: 7/2/2012 10:13:00 AM EDT
Oh no OP! I hope you are not trolling again. Last time it was being able to use the jailers computers to surf the internet while you were in jail to work off some traffic tickets. You did a whole bunch of typing this time too, let's see some pics! If you had a youtube video of an AR blowing up in a swimming pool, you could buy a new AR with the monetized video funds.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 10:22:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2012 11:58:46 AM EDT by Texas_Infidel]
Originally Posted By Tboy:

You NEED to get an underwater camera and post the videos here.

It might be more dangerous but I'm curious if you have tried to shoot a pistol from under water upward at a target?  Do you have any issues with your suppressors while shooting underwater?  Also, have you tested how long you can keep a gun underwater and it still function?  

I see a new "Box of Truth" called "Pool of Truth".


I've got some video some where.  Shooting underwater to a surface target depends on depth.  If your just a few feet underwater it wont break the surface.  A few inches and it will hit but with a huge loss of velocity.  (9mm).

I have had no problems with a suppressor until one day I was in a pond and it must have had an air bubble or something cause it blew off the end.   I never found it.   It was on the HK 9mm.

A few hours is the longest I've done in a lake.   My pool is saltwater so leaving it overnight would be worse than if I left it in a pond I'd figure.   But....I do have a pool and a pond, so maybe a 24/48 hr test to compare two like pistols maybe in order.  

My glocks don't have those special underwater firing pins.  Just out of the box guns.  Standard brass case ammo works better than CCI aluminum cased ammo.  The CCI sometimes will have split cases and cycle ~70-75% of the time.  Brass cased ammo seems to cycle better.

ETA some pics





Link Posted: 7/2/2012 11:28:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2012 11:30:01 AM EDT by TK5]
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 12:06:10 PM EDT
forget shooting underwater, you can't even fall on them




http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=8&f=8&t=458321
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 12:18:38 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 12:56:34 PM EDT
This is some great information.  Not sure if you tried this, based on caliber, could you experiment how far underwater a gun can be fired outward and still be lethal?  Would the water also work as a good sound suppressor?  I've watched TOO many movies over the years that have created some interesting myths.

Link Posted: 7/2/2012 3:30:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2012 3:35:11 PM EDT by Confront]
Originally Posted By refidnasb:
Oh no OP! I hope you are not trolling again. Last time it was being able to use the jailers computers to surf the internet while you were in jail to work off some traffic tickets. You did a whole bunch of typing this time too, let's see some pics! If you had a youtube video of an AR blowing up in a swimming pool, you could buy a new AR with the monetized video funds.





Some people do, some people talk about doing, others bitch and complain about them.   I'll let you figure out where I think you are.


Link Posted: 7/2/2012 3:50:33 PM EDT
I think the military deal with this issue by letting the water drain out of thirty barrel before shooting.

I think.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 4:12:39 PM EDT
dude, where was my invitation to said party? I'm sure you could have used someone to inflate all those seasonal yard displays
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 6:10:23 PM EDT
Glad im not your next door neighbor
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 6:30:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CJ7365:
Glad im not your next door neighbor


He'd be an awesome neighbor - just imagine the great stories you'd have and all the cool toys you'd be able to play with.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 7:34:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2012 8:32:09 PM EDT by Texas_Infidel]
Originally Posted By Tboy:
This is some great information.  Not sure if you tried this, based on caliber, could you experiment how far underwater a gun can be fired outward and still be lethal?  Would the water also work as a good sound suppressor?  I've watched TOO many movies over the years that have created some interesting myths.

I may have time to try it this weekend.  Interesting concept, but I'm pretty sure it can't be very deep maybe 10-12" or less under the surface.    The water is and isn't a good suppressor.  There is no sonic boom, but it does make a concussion sound depending on the depth its fired and the direction.  Shooting shallow for distance and shooting straight to the bottom gives off different sounds.  When I shoot in the pool, the wife can hear it inside.  Sounds similar to a good strong firecracker tossed into the water and blowing up under the surface.   Nothing to get anyone worked up, but you can hear something.

Originally Posted By dfwknight:
I think the military deal with this issue by letting the water drain out of thirty barrel before shooting.
I think.

yea, but  its pretty hard to drain a barrel when its submerged and intentially fired UNDERWATER

Originally Posted By hrt4me:
dude, where was my invitation to said party? I'm sure you could have used someone to inflate all those seasonal yard displays

You'll have to take that up with jr.   Most of the inflatables fortunately were stolen at the old house or the wind here beats them to death.

Originally Posted By CJ7365:
Glad im not your next door neighbor

Bummer
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 8:34:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By joemama74:
I heard this was a problem in Vietnam. Not sure how modern troops deal with it.


They don't shoot with a barrel full of water.
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