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Posted: 10/28/2006 3:39:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2006 9:11:30 AM EST by R-32]
at the new * Secret * location....


This area shall be known from this day forward as the * Secret Location *.


it is clean, but you are not going to be able to get all of your guns in there without a Tactical Cart. It is only about 50 yards, but better than nothing...

Should also be pretty easy to keep clean, along with a little work there can be a seperate pistol range.

About 1/4 mile walk in, but DaBunny made it, so just about anybody else should be able to aswell.

I also decided to take my guests on a little side trip to see how F-ing stupid the Dirt Bikers are in the area......
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 4:39:46 PM EST
It was brutal...uphill in both directions...hungry bears, cougars and coyotes nipping at our heels...

I don't care what FOTT says...bikers do more damage out there than anything but logging.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 4:41:12 PM EST
Sounds good, better/closer than the places I've been scouting?
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 4:44:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
Sounds good, better/closer than the places I've been scouting?


I dunno, we fired some three round bursts and bumped a full mag, then left and got latte's....
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 4:48:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
Sounds good, better/closer than the places I've been scouting?


I dunno, we fired some three round bursts and bumped a full mag, then left and got latte's....


You forgot the mention the Moving targets on the backstop at the Deer Creek pistol range.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 5:50:27 PM EST

You forgot the mention the Moving targets on the backstop at the Deer Creek pistol range.


Why do they dress like that. I mean.......

HEY!!! SHOOT ME!!! All over their little costumes....
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:41:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
It was brutal...uphill in both directions...hungry bears, cougars and coyotes nipping at our heels...



Sounds like a target rich environment!!!
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:44:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
I don't care what FOTT says...bikers do more damage out there than anything but logging.


It's a similiar story down here in Clark/Skamania. Bikers do the worst, followed second by the partiers. Lots of people hit the logging roads for parties on weekends
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:57:35 PM EST
Anyone want to go riding?

Really, shooters and rider have a lot of the same enemies. From within and from the outside. You do yourself no favors by alienating those who would probably normally be your ally.

Please post pictures of the dirt bike created carnage. Maybe you can get some superfund money to git er all fixed up.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 9:20:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By MACE_Hardware:
Anyone want to go riding?

Really, shooters and rider have a lot of the same enemies. From within and from the outside. You do yourself no favors by alienating those who would probably normally be your ally.

Please post pictures of the dirt bike created carnage. Maybe you can get some superfund money to git er all fixed up.


The ORV Friends signage put up at Reiter pit and futher up towards Deer Creek made me want to puke. They have a DNR headboard and a long tail of ladder boards listing the rules. The one saying "No Shooting near roads, trails, or houses" is a crock of shit and so is the rest of it.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 9:28:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By MACE_Hardware:


You do yourself no favors by alienating those who would probably normally be your ally.





I am the recepient of a 9-1-1 call that I was shooting "illegal machine guns at kids on motorcycles".... little did the guy know that I work where I work and got to hear his bullshit story. Not to mention the deputy that shows up knows me pretty good and Im shooting a Bolt action .22. They were pissed off because the pit that the agency that I work for dug out was being used as a backstop and not for yet another F-d up hill climp spot. Reiter Pit (both upper and lower) is plenty big for the dirt bikers to use, they have their signs about it being DNR trust land and to keep it clean and ride all nice like... That is all well and fine, but then they leave the pit and go into Deer Creek Flats and make the place look like a war zone. They have torn the roads all to hell and back Today for starts we pull in and not 50 yds onto rd 6010 there are 3 fires they were attended and that is all fine. on the way out not 45 min's later, there are 3 unattended fires and trash and shit everywhere. They have blasted so many little side trails through the area that it looks like a gawd dammed bomb went off in there. Then just past the first turn off, there are three dipshits on their bikes, in the middle of the roadway blocking up the traffic, they don't give two shits about anybody but themselves. I drive past the shooting pit, and I tell my guests that " This is the place we used to shoot at until the bikers drove everybody out with their hill climbs"...To my amazement there were two trucks there shooting. But guess what was blasting up the hill between them while they were trying to shoot the clays they had on the hillside?...

I dont make this shit up!...

We had to put up two more gates to keep them out, we left it open for 2 years then the Echo Terror freaks came out and did several million dollars worth of dammage...That is a drop in the bucket seeing what is going on out there now.

the Pits out at Reiter are miles and miles of area that the shooters got run out of allready, now they keep growing like cancer and messing up some of what was the cleanest and healty wildland around, the hunters are run out, and the place is a zoo...

They have run everybody out of Sultan Basin, Reiter, and now moving east to Deer Creek....


Sorry, I ride also, but Shooters dont get any slack, and I sure as shit am not going to give ANY to the bikers any longer, They made this mess, and made it 10X's worse than any group of shooters.


Link Posted: 10/28/2006 10:19:51 PM EST
The bikers are not interested in pushing out shooters. The DNR is interested in pushing us both out. Come to the ORV meetings at Everett Powersports and talk it over. At least half of the politically involved ORV folks are avid shooters. None of the no-shoot zones at Reiter are the result of ORV activists. In fact, I believe it was the Snohomish County Council who passed the ordinance making the Reiter no shoot zones. That was back when Rick Larson was just a county bootlick instead of a House or Representative bootlick. You think the ORV community wastes the little political capitol we have on removing access for other users. No way.

I, for one refuse to counter arguements about ORV damage by pointing out the damage shooting lanes might do. What would that acheive? Maybe fuck up two sports I love? The DNR's answer to any controversy is to shut down the access. The P5000 road is a great example.

Man, if anyone should be tolerant of multiple use it should be shooters. We don't need more enemies. The same people are trying to shut us both down. The bikers have the same right to the land as the shooters - and it is a tenuous right these days.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 11:19:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By MACE_Hardware:

Man, if anyone should be tolerant of multiple use it should be shooters. We don't need more enemies. The same people are trying to shut us both down. The bikers have the same right to the land as the shooters - and it is a tenuous right these days.


"Should" is the word... Fact's are, the bikers get the land, the shooters get the boot.


It is not the bike groups doing the pushing, it is the bikers themselves. Reiter Pit was a shooting area until the bikers started bitching. The signage boards have gone up at the pits in the last 2 months tops, it implies that shooting is OK if you play by the rules, but guess who the first dicksmack on the phone to 9-1-1 is when anyone other then the bikers/offroaders are when anyone else tries to use the "Trust land". My point is and always has been.. I dont mind the bikers, they can have the Pits, STOP TEARING THE SHIT OUT OF DEER CREEK FLATS!, STOP HARASSING THE SHOOTERS, AND PUSHING THEM OUT!, STOP WRECKING THE HUNTING AREAS...The DNR, FOTT, and the County are doing more then enough to mess with the shooters and hunters, we dont need the bikers pushing is around also. The bikers have huge ORV parks all over the damn state with DNR blessing. DNR is not doing 1/10th the dammage to the ORV'ers that they do to the shooters, Yet the ORV'ers are doing 10x's the damage, and taking it outside the ORV areas.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:04:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 6:02:10 AM EST by Da_Bunny]

The bikers are not interested in pushing out shooters.


The pit was cut there to be a practice range in the first place.

The bikers were making a point of riding thru the pit where the shooters were trying to shoot. The bikers were driving up the road, but detoured thru the pit where the shooters were setting up clays, as we watched.


R-32 is right, we saw groups parked when we went in. When we left, they were gone and their campfires were still burning. Some of the camp sites were still covered in trash, as well. They just drove away and left it.

It isn't all bikers. But, some kids sure do think they are entitled these days. Their parents are no help. Utterly inconsiderate of other recreationalists.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 6:54:41 AM EST
The bikers are keepin' ya down. If we get rid of these bikerz we'll be able to shoot where ever we want.

NFW. The bikers are in a constant battle to keep the FEW places we have to ride. The DNR shut down two places in Skagit county last fall - one of them with absolutely no justification - one because it was easier to shut down than to deal with the problem area. When an area gets shut down it places more use pressure on the next nearest place. If it continues everyone gets funneled into so few places that the impact is greatly increased. The Reiter area would be shut down now if it weren't for the Snohomish County ORV Coalition that meets monthly in Everett. We have worked for years with DNR and SnoCo to keep the area open. The signs are paid for by the coalition and the wording comes from them and the DNR. Every year the coalition has a cleanup day at Reiter to haul out all the trash the "bikers" dump - like tons of shingles or old couches (can you tell I'm being facetious?).

So lets make some positive changes. Let's find an appropriate place to shoot. Then working with the DNR, SnoCo and the ORV organizations work to make it sustainable and safe. If SCR adopts an area, develops it (including trail re-routes as necessary) and maintains it - we will have really accomplished somthing.

Or we can bitch about other users and watch both sports slip into oblivion.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 8:25:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 8:31:16 AM EST by Da_Bunny]
Bikers are just riding where they can, it's the government that wants everybody out. That is in response to the urban left wing "it's all for us" attitude. When they venture out of the city to get "one on one" with nature, they find out that people actually live, work and play out here in the boonies. The pristine wilderness that only exists in their imaginations isn't there waiting for them when they want to drop acid and watch the sun come up. Unfortunately, DNR is shutting down shooting areas as fast or faster than biking areas. At least as shooters we can use the Mall parking lots, if everything else is closed...
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 9:22:27 AM EST
Strangly enough, I have hear several stories about bikers being assholes and keeping shooters from using public land or that have called the po-po on legal shooters and told outrageous stories just to fuck with the shooters.....


But I have yet to hear of a single story about a shooter refusing to let a biker ride in an area, call the police on a biker and accuse the bikers of trying to run over the shooters children or the like.

Mace, the bikers have burned their last bridge. Fuck'm and fuck you if you side with them. I frankly don't care if you like to ride bikes as I do myself. But i'll be damned if I am going to support them as a community when this is what we can expect from them on a regular basis. Destruction of property, trashing forrest lands, trying to disallow others to use the same public land, etc.

Others are right that its the govt. trying to push everybody out of the forrests. But whats easier to see?....lots of torn up dirt trails and scars left in the wilderness, or a hillside/berm along a pre-existing logging trail that people have shot into? What makes a geographically bigger mess and is easier to see and more obvious damage?

It ain't shooting.

Link Posted: 10/29/2006 9:54:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 10:19:40 AM EST by R-32]

Originally Posted By MACE_Hardware:

Let's find an appropriate place to shoot.


I dont think you get it....


REITER PIT WAS THE SHOOTING AREA FOR YEARS ( decades even)...That got given up due to the pressure and hastle from the Bikers and 4x4's, The shooters kept to the Sultan Basin road and let the bikers have the pits. Then the 4x4 trucks started tearing up the Basin road.( gotta be fare, the bikers still stay off the basin road for the most part) FOTT decides that all of the trash is from the shooters ( The same couches and shingles you were talking about). FOTT, Sno County, and DNR decide to close Sultan Basin to the shooters. Well where are the shooters going to go?Cant go back to the Reiter pit... But To a sub-standard HUNTING GROUND. ( Deer Creek was a great hunting area till 2 years ago). OOOOP's.... Cant go out there anymore the Bikers have deceided now that someone went in a punched a road through for some Communications towers that they can just blast up a 400' hillside under the power lines, F-up the roads by causing washouts that normal cars and trucks let alone the equipment, and fuel trucks needed to suport the communications towers can hardley get around or over any longer. The beef here is not with the "ORV Clubs" but with the individual's that come out and tear it up. It is really a mess out there, the hunters are intimidated. We throw up more gates. Im honestly pushing the ecology blocks, and railings along the hillside to keep the bikers down below, and at least force them to use the main enterance, and to keep from washing out the hillside any longer. I could care less that the bikes use the main roads in the area, but they are tearing the hell out of the wooded areas also...This area is where the older hunters used to go, it was easy to move around in, flat and safe. Now it is no longer the case, with Bikers tearing ass through the woods and spiderweb of ruts and muddy trails, bullying the hunters and running out the game. Some of the best hunting area for the kids and older guys to just "sit and hang out" have had the walking trails to those sites torn up and turned in to ralley type course's for the dirt bikes with signage nailed to every damn tree. It is turning into a bigger and bigger Mud-Bog year by year.

Im not trying to push out the bikers/ORV's, I want them to stay out of the woods, and hunting areas in the flats... I know that now that we have gated the roads ( and are now possibly looking at adding more much lower down) the fun is not there for the 4x4 truck guys, but they still have their area's in the flats even. The motorcycle guys really dont have anything to do there but tear up the woods and harass the shooters in the little 25 yd pit?... Those new gates were not wanted to be put into place, they were put up as high as possible to keep everyone in the flats happy and able to use it, but the trashing of a multi-million dollar communications site forced that ( To be fair, It is pretty much known that the bikers and the 4x4 guys did NOT do the dammage) The cell towers and PUD towers in the lowere flats are now getting trashed, but this is by the bikers and the 4x4 party crowd. Those towers used to be where the old guys would park their trucks and walk into the woods, Now the old guys are scared to even go out there. I go out there in full sight with a nice hunting rifle just to let them know Im there now. It does not run them off, they just tear ass all around and make threats.


So where were the appropriate places to shoot agian?...
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 10:00:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By R-32:

So where were the appropriate places to shoot agian?...


Hmmm, well I may have to start taking out the quad more....
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 10:05:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By 2whiskeyP:

Originally Posted By R-32:

So where were the appropriate places to shoot agian?...


Hmmm, well I may have to start taking out the quad more....


It is the only way you are going to be able to use the public trust land anymore....


That being said, I am on my way down to the Kawasaki place in town, I want a new quad.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 10:05:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 10:26:42 AM EST
OdT hit the mark here, there are just too many people for the area available.

Looking like the only way out is a bad plague.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 11:04:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 11:12:19 AM EST by R-32]

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:
OdT hit the mark here, there are just too many people for the area available.

Looking like the only way out is a bad plague.


I dont see the lack of areas for the bikes around here, Sorry...


Off of 177th ave is a MotoCross park, about 20 acres with 3 different tracks, and trails, The fairgrounds has the Flat track and Arena race's, Reiter pit is what I would guess to be about 20 square miles of riding trails, hills and general screwing around area. Sultan basin road has several small pits just for motorcross type bikes and quads at mile post 9 thru 11, also trails out around spada lake, and off of 116th/Sultan Basin rd the roads that go out to horshoe curve, and around the jackson powerhouse. The pipeline road, just across from BPA there are several miles of bike area's that are running all over the damn place. Not to mention the half dozen Forrest Service roads along SR 2.

These are all areas just between the city of Monroe and the town of Index, and only the big popular ones. I could go on....

Now...

once again,

Where is the appropriate place to shoot?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 11:07:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
It was brutal...

I don't care what FOTT says...bikers do more damage out there than anything but logging.


Hey Bunny, the loggers aren't tresspassing, we are LEGALY working the land according to the latest and ever changing rules set by state and fed agencies.

Our local range(pit) was finaly closed because of riders fighting with fisherman.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 11:21:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By DDofWA:

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
It was brutal...

I don't care what FOTT says...bikers do more damage out there than anything but logging.


Hey Bunny, the loggers aren't tresspassing, we are LEGALY working the land according to the latest and ever changing rules set by state and fed agencies.

Our local range(pit) was finaly closed because of riders fighting with fisherman.


Lets be very carefull here, We are not talking about anyone being on the land illegaly, This is all DNR trust land, and a very small (very small) part of Private land that is open with a Forrest Service road running through Deer Creek Flats, boardering a Natl Park.( and a lame one at that).

We are talking about one group of people tearing up the area that others use and are being pushed out of yet again by the first group.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 11:41:41 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 12:04:00 PM EST
I have to say that this "problem" is being caused by shitstain redneck inbred hillbilly fucktards on quads and on bikes.

I have seen the areas where R-32 is talking about, I used to go riding there back in the late 80's and early 90's and they were never as fucked up as they are today.

The problem is that there are not enough PUBLICLY funded riding areas in which to ride.

What the state needs to do is take the money it makes from hunters, the gas tax and from ORV liscense fees and build more areas like Walker Valley where the money can be spent on improvements, facilities and caretakers.

When I was stationed in Ventura County at Pt. Mugu I had my choice of 7 places to go riding at within a two hour drive, both federal and state ORV parks.

As has been pointed out and as we can see, "public lands" are being closed left and right in this state.

The effect is that as more people move to the state and as more people reach "adulthood" the more "public land" gets closed off, and what happens is that these people are forced (or funneled) into evern decreasing open areas in which to enjoy their hobbies.

Going to ORV meetings won't solve the issues of the shitstain inbred hicks who park their truck at an open pit, ride and party of the weekend and then leave their trash.
Why?
Because those kinds of people don't attend meetings or join the AMA.

Just like gun owners who don't get involved in politics or who can't affored to toss a few bucks to the NRA.

They just don't fucking care.




Link Posted: 10/29/2006 12:07:18 PM EST
Torn up really doesn't describe it. I was looking at riding paths that were 4 feet deep into the ground in places with vertical walls on either side. You couldn't really walk across this ground, except along the riding paths. The roads are nearly undrivable above 3 or 4 mph, otherwise you hit your head on the roof of your truck. Forget cars, there are massive potholes in stretches.

The gravel road has been cut away by bike paths in places, where it is only 60% of it's original width with a 18" deep cut that would break an axle if you drove into it.

This ground is severely impacted. It could only be restored with heavy earthmoving equipment.


I'll just venture that it'll never be restored, just shut down.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 12:20:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
Torn up really doesn't describe it. I was looking at riding paths that were 4 feet deep into the ground in places with vertical walls on either side. You couldn't really walk across this ground, except along the riding paths. The roads are nearly undrivable above 3 or 4 mph, otherwise you hit your head on the roof of your truck. Forget cars, there are massive potholes in stretches.

The gravel road has been cut away by bike paths in places, where it is only 60% of it's original width with a 18" deep cut that would break an axle if you drove into it.

This ground is severely impacted. It could only be restored with heavy earthmoving equipment.


I'll just venture that it'll never be restored, just shut down.


That's why the state needs more controlled riding areas.
They can keep a certain portion of the trails open while a certain portion of them gets reworked or are allowed to recover for a few years.

On the plus side trails like those keep the quad and 4-wheeler morons off and allow the dirt bikers to have fun.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 12:22:44 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 12:29:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 12:38:23 PM EST by R-32]

Originally Posted By OdT:

Originally Posted By R-32:
Lets be very carefull here, We are not talking about anyone being on the land illegaly, This is all DNR trust land, and a very small (very small) part of Private land that is open with a Forrest Service road running through Deer Creek Flats, boardering a Natl Park.( and a lame one at that).

We are talking about one group of people tearing up the area that others use and are being pushed out of yet again by the first group.


The 'tearing up' part still rubs me wrong, especially when coming from a conservative voice. Tearing up what? In who's opinion? More so than the excavation for your own homes building site, the place you work, the goods and services you use daily in every moment, paper mills, mining companies, roads, construction materials....etc..?

The ground being disturbed, sounds like a buzzword-4-hype tactic though, to dramatize the point being made. Did you harvest, shoot, kill, or murder your deer this year... don't matter, the fuckin' thing is still dead.

Perhaps the 'tearing up' wouldn't bother others so badly, if their own rights weren't hindered by others still enjoying their hobbies? I don't doubt your situation is unfair, and it sounds like the bikers are winning..... but I say we're all loseing in the big picture, and at a more rapid rate in higher populated areas.

I suspect the best way for me to ensure that my sons enjoy similar rights to the ones I have during my lifetime, is to move them further away from those who will trample them.


Call it what you want,

You put 20 motorcycles on 100 acres of rain forest, with nice ground, you do that 3 days a week, for two years and you have one fucked up area.

Take your yard and let 2 people on the dirt bikes ride on it, and you will get the idea of mud-bog, and rutted to hell and back. I dont know how to say it any better... The black berrys and huckle berrys for the deer are gone, the rootball's of the cedar are exposed, the game trails are now nothing but puddles and pools of water. Forrest Service Road 6010 is being eroaded out because they climb up a 400' hill under the power lines to get to it, when all they have to do is get on the main logging road and head east 2/10th of a mile.

We are not talking about a couple guys on bikes here, we are talking 100's a weekend year around. The parking lot is 10+ acres at the main pit with 2 more about the same size just east of the main pit. this place is huge, yet they seem to want to blast out of the park area and run off the hunters in the woods and the target shooters in a 25 yd pit... They have miles and miles of great open gravl/sand and trails. but they want to climb out of the main area and strip out the ground of 70 acres (tops) of forested hunting trails. The animals do not have places other than mud pits to bed down in. The hunters have nowhere to hang out any longer without bikes blasting past them and throwing mud up everywhere...

I just dont know what to say any longer.

THEY ARE TEARING THE PLACE TO SHIT...
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 12:33:28 PM EST
Ok guys, I guess I gotta be the voice of reason here:

PICS! We WANT da PICS!

I don't doubt what you are saying. But pics would go a long way towards showing everyone what's been happening.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 12:39:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 12:39:54 PM EST by R-32]

Originally Posted By libertynews:
Ok guys, I guess I gotta be the voice of reason here:

PICS! We WANT da PICS!

I don't doubt what you are saying. But pics would go a long way towards showing everyone what's been happening.



FS road 6010, go get em.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 12:41:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By libertynews:
Ok guys, I guess I gotta be the voice of reason here:

PICS! We WANT da PICS!

I don't doubt what you are saying. But pics would go a long way towards showing everyone what's been happening.



FS road 6010, go get em.


So did you get your quad?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 12:44:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By 2whiskeyP:

So did you get your quad?


No Im sitting here watching HEAT and in the great debate of Dirtbikers vs Shooters/Hunters.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 12:59:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 1:06:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 1:16:03 PM EST by Da_Bunny]

Originally Posted By OdT:

So if I were to drive up there to check it out, ignoring every difference man has made along the way, through Oly, Tacoma, Seattle and all of their suburbs, I should start feeling sorry for hunters and animals when I get to a 70 acre ORV park?




So, are you going to?


Go find me a nice handicap accessible shooting pit within an hour of my home, please.

I want the same quality shooting area as the bikers have for riding.

Not some 25 yard pit. I want 500 yards with no assholes riding thru it and no houses to worry about.

I want to bumpfire and shoot evil black rifles, the same way they get to ride their bikes wide open and make dirt rooster tails.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 1:15:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By OdT:

Originally Posted By R-32:
<snip>...


So if I were to drive up there to check it out, ignoring every difference man has made along the way, through Oly, Tacoma, Seattle and all of their suburbs, I should start feeling sorry for hunters and animals when I get to a 70 acre ORV park?



No, the 70 acres are outside the ORV park boundries, the ORV area is what Im guessing to be about 20 square miles at least.

Why tear up the area that has been a known public hunting area for the last 50+ years?.

Honest here, I could care less any longer. I have pulled 3 dead teen's out of there in the last 5 years from accidents, That is a part of life, and I dont sweat it, but the first time some dumbass takes a round because he is blasting around the shooters.....


You tell me who is going to be gone?...

Link Posted: 10/29/2006 1:30:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 1:34:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 1:34:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By OdT:
Wow.... on a gun board? That's the saddest thing I've read here yet. (no personal bash meant, but that's the most liberal minded thing I've read on this site to date)

Mace is correct in my opinion. Picking sides between other like minded individuals, is a certain way to lose both battles. Guaranteed.


Liberal minded? Bullshit. Then you are just as lost as mace.

There is no "like minded" when those assholes all but forceably prevent legal shooters from using the land in a legal manner to go shooting, and there is no "like mindedness" when asshole bikers call the cops on a shooter with a bolt action .22 and tell the cops that a freak with an illegal machinegun is shooting at their kids.

Line has been drawn, idiot bikers on one side, shooters on the other. No more like mindedness anymore. There may have been in the past, but once the damn bikers couldn't keep to their own areas, and started treating shooters like the rest of the retarded liberal fuckwits in this country, then they just marked themselves as on the otherside. The shooters didn't decide this, the retard bikers did, and they have nobody else to blame but themselves.

These battles will be lost if anything because of lack of popular support. And if the bikers want to point the finger at the shooters and claim that "we lost because those assholes didn't support a common cause of using the public lands together and they just fucked everybody." its because they are so far fucking stupid that they can't see that the reason shooters won't support them is because those same bikers are the assholes on cell phones or blocking access to shooting spots. fuck'em.


The problem isn't either activity IMO. Both go on daily here where I live, and in E WA too, when I lived there. I've done both at every opportunity, with little limitation. Overpopulation is the only consistent problem I can diagnose for either sport..... people just don't get along...simple.


Wow. Thats a pretty damn vague explination lacking in any substance. So now its okay for bikers to go outside of thier normal areas into shooters areas, trash the place, strongarm shooters and call the cops on them simply because they "don't get along."?????


However, if one side is having more trouble than the other, it's the bikers IMO. I belong to and support the Blue Ribbon Coalition and another group, and IMO, we don't stand a chance. If recent setbacks are any indication, we're fucked.

I sold my quad with the idea of buying a larger one, but divorce set that plan back. I don't know if I'll bother to replace it though. There are some other reasons, but the lack of places available to ride is the biggest, and the attacks from the liberal efforts are worse to stomach than any anti-2nd Amendent threat I've witnessed.

Further, I've seen what damage can be done with a quad. A person is looney if they think for one second that it rivals any damage done by big city life, and all of the environmental impacts that the industrial age has placed in our laps.

Logging (supplying your demand) or quad trails are moot by any comparison. Wanna see some real damage to Mother Earth, try 1st & Pike St., and anywhere in 50 mile radius from there.


i've seen more logging damage they you could posibly imagine. And I know what quads do to the environment. I didn't grow up as a city boy just because I live here now.

And as for supplying "my" demand, I doubt that your house is built without any wood....
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 1:45:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 2:23:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By OdT:

We'll divide ourselves between countrys, by race, by religion, then by political partys, then by black VS brown guns, then by high school football teams, and so on. Excellent plan.

I mean after all, if you're not one of us, you're one of them.


It's the American way!
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:09:47 PM EST
Let's get this straight right now. It's all about ME!

Fuck you fuckin' fucks!
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:12:58 PM EST
I think Bunny has had too many Latte's today.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:23:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:55:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 3:57:09 PM EST by R-32]



So, Now what are the we (SCR's) gong to do about it?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:06:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 4:09:35 PM EST by Da_Bunny]

Originally Posted By R-32:



So, Now what are the we (SCR's) gong to do about it?


Does it involve .308s and spotters?

I'm kinda luke warm on the legal process with our current government, since their solution seems to involve banning the possession of our favorite firearms.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:40:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 4:42:56 PM EST by R-32]

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:

Originally Posted By R-32:



So, Now what are the we (SCR's) gong to do about it?


Does it involve .308s and spotters?

I'm kinda luke warm on the legal process with our current government, since their solution seems to involve banning the possession of our favorite firearms.


I say we go out and build a range at the base of the mtn, then we post that any biker seen in the area will be a moving target.

Or better yet, use their own signage against them...

We need to put a Range right in the parking lot of the pit that shoots into the back corner. ( No trails, roads, or houses)
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:06:16 PM EST
GrumpyM4 has crossed the line. He is not civil and should go to the penalty box.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:08:46 PM EST
I beg to differ R-32 I remember very clearly what this area was like in the 1970's logging was at full tilt and roads through all the public lands were every-where, there were lots of places for the ORV and the shooters, they never bothered each other.

Cutting leaners/alders along the roads was fine to keep the roads open for access, fire-breaks etc.

Those roads were paid for with public money and on public lands expressly for recreation after the logging was done, the state promised if the people approved the clear-cutting they could use the roads for recreation, then these evil wicket criminal bastards paid $10,000 a mile of our money to have those roads destroyed and put locked gates on the few roads left.

Population is many times higher with less area open to the public, too many people competing for too little space, when the whole damn state belongs to the people and is for their use.



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