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Posted: 8/11/2011 3:09:36 AM EDT
[#1]
The primary aim is to get the mechanical elevation zero on the rear sight set by adjusting the foresight height, as you Magpul rear BUIS is not adjustable for elevation you will have to adjust the foresight and accept that it will be for one distance only. Secondary to that is that the Magpul BUIS are just that BUIS, not precision by any stretch of the imagination as they are made of plastic, so don’t be surprised if they are ‘on’ target one day and 'off' another.
If you want to use iron sights get a elevation and windage adjustable rear sight. I have one of these LMT Rear Sight |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 3:14:45 AM EDT
[#2]
What JMH says but I'll add that if you had a detachable carry handle, it's very unlikely that it would have an 8/3 marking
The correct way to zero a 5.56 M16/M4/AR15 at 25yds is to set the sight at 3 (300m) plus 1 click (1moa) |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 3:16:56 AM EDT
[#3]
Thanks gentlemen, Very helpful indeed. I appreciate it.
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Posted: 8/11/2011 3:20:01 AM EDT
[#4]
Magpul...... Bin Useless Idiotic Shit.....
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Posted: 8/11/2011 3:28:18 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Thanks gentlemen, Very helpful indeed. I appreciate it. No worries, just make make sure Goldfinger doesn't gain from it 
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Posted: 8/11/2011 3:29:49 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Magpul...... Bin Useless Idiotic Shit.....
He's right you know. Do you think you'll actually use them? |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 4:11:01 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Initially I thought I might, but now, I'm not so sure Quoted: Magpul...... Bin Useless Idiotic Shit..... He's right you know. Do you think you'll actually use them?  |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 4:30:21 AM EDT
[#8]
If you red dot sight is parallax free and the mount is the correct height you can co-wittness the BUIS with the red-dot. Zero the Red-Dot first, then using the BUIS adjust them until the red dot sits squarely on top of the fore sight when looked at through the rear sight.
Simples. 
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Posted: 8/11/2011 4:37:14 AM EDT
[#9]
Hey I use mine all the time! Admittedly I can't hit shit but I have lots of fun doing it :)
I've found they shoot about as well as I do, though admittedly my eyesight has been deteriorating for years and I need glasses for anything for than 50 yards away. ETA: I've not had my eyesight checked for 20 years so I'm assuming that it's my eyesight deteriorating, not the world getting fuzzier. |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 4:45:24 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
If you red dot sight is parallax free and the mount is the correct height you can co-wittness the BUIS with the red-dot. Zero the Red-Dot first, then using the BUIS adjust them until the red dot sits squarely on top of the fore sight when looked at through the rear sight. Simples. True, but not quite as Simples as you say. If you are using everyones favourite mount, a Larue, with an Aimpoint for example, they are designed so the BUIS witnesses in the bottom 3rd of the scope for an unobstructed sight pic. I have one and it disappoints me Have I said too much? |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 4:58:05 AM EDT
[#11]
So does mine so what is the problem, you are not supposed to use both together.
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Posted: 8/11/2011 5:10:46 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
So does mine so what is the problem, you are not supposed to use both together. Don't you me
There's 2 schools of thought here, the one that says uncluttered sight picture, and the other that says co-witness so everything is on the same plane for consistency and cheek weld etc I prefer the latter, ermmm I mean the former |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 5:14:55 AM EDT
[#13]
As far as the former goes that's why BUIS fold down.
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Posted: 8/11/2011 5:19:22 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
As far as the former goes that's why BUIS fold down. No Because not all of them fold, and besides BUIS's originated at rear sights only So there 
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Posted: 8/11/2011 5:22:54 AM EDT
[#15]
Whaterver.
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Posted: 8/11/2011 6:03:29 AM EDT
[#16]
Personal taste, but I prefer an AR to have the front A post sight, it's one of the iconic parts of the rifle imo.
It doesn't get in the way of the reticule when using an Eotech with a lower third co witness. Andy. |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 6:03:34 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Whaterver. Yep 
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Posted: 8/11/2011 9:14:32 AM EDT
[#18]
Well in my opinion the numbers on the knob will be nearly meaningless as far as meaning for hundred meter increments if you're working on a .22 rimfire.
What i would do is set the rear sight 3 or 4 clicks up from the bottom and zero the front sight at 50'. That should leave you plenty of adjustment from 50' to 100 yards or meters with your rear sight. The 3 or 4 clicks will let you make some adjustment for different ammo that shoots a touch off. Again that's my recommendation for a .22 rimfire and not at all what I would do for a 5.56mm carbine or rifle. For a carbine I zero at 50 yards with an aimpoint and the backup sight for 100 yards. For rifle (with standard A2 sights) I zero at 200 yards with the rear set at 8/3 minus two clicks. This will get the sights approximately regulated for 62 FMJ SS109 ammo for the numbers on the dial to match the trajectory. Any other ammo and you'll be more off and will need to establish zeros (which you should verify with SS109 ammo anyhow) |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 10:11:04 AM EDT
[#19]
While most of the LaRue mounts are designed 1/3 co-witness, the Comp M4 mount (LT659) in the NV hight configuration will place that scope at absolute co-witness hight.
The LT751 will mount an Aimpoint Micro T-1 in absolute too. |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 1:14:49 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
While most of the LaRue mounts are designed 1/3 co-witness, the Comp M4 mount (LT659) in the NV hight configuration will place that scope at absolute co-witness hight. The LT751 will mount an Aimpoint Micro T-1 in absolute too. The std Comp M4 mount is perfectly adequate and doesn't need replacing with a Larue, or anyone elses |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 1:27:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Unless you need a QD mount. In a QD scenario.
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Posted: 8/11/2011 1:33:42 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Unless you need a QD mount. In a QD scenario. The std mount is perfectly QD |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 1:56:13 PM EDT
[#23]
The standard mount is a knob that stands out from the mount. It is not as quick to detach this system as it is with the LaRue option, that has a QD throw lever. In practice the knob requires at least 2-4 revolutions before the mount becomes loose enough to clear the rail. The Larue system instantly releases the mount from the rail.
Aimpoint:  |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 2:06:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
The standard mount is a knob that stands out from the mount. It is not as quick to detach this system as it is with the LaRue option, that has a QD throw lever. In practice the knob requires at least 2-4 revolutions before the mount becomes loose enough to clear the rail. The Larue system instantly releases the mount from the rail. Aimpoint: http://<a href=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5297/5456699998_ef9ef9fcc0.jpg The STD mount is perfectly adequate |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 2:25:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The standard mount is a knob that stands out from the mount. It is not as quick to detach this system as it is with the LaRue option, that has a QD throw lever. In practice the knob requires at least 2-4 revolutions before the mount becomes loose enough to clear the rail. The Larue system instantly releases the mount from the rail. Aimpoint: http://<a href=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5297/5456699998_ef9ef9fcc0.jpg The STD mount is perfectly adequate It is for what we do. I have a QD mount for my Aimpoint. It has never been off the rifle since I bought it. QD for what we do is surplus to requirements. |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 2:32:31 PM EDT
[#26]
You've used it in a combat environment then?
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Posted: 8/11/2011 2:35:58 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The standard mount is a knob that stands out from the mount. It is not as quick to detach this system as it is with the LaRue option, that has a QD throw lever. In practice the knob requires at least 2-4 revolutions before the mount becomes loose enough to clear the rail. The Larue system instantly releases the mount from the rail. Aimpoint: http://<a href=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5297/5456699998_ef9ef9fcc0.jpg The STD mount is perfectly adequate It is for what we do. I have a QD mount for my Aimpoint. It has never been off the rifle since I bought it. QD for what we do is surplus to requirements. It is for what the US Mil do, and they have tens, if not hundreds of thousands of the things and are faced with life or death situations quite regularly (as seen on TV) |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 2:36:57 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
You've used it in a combat environment then? The US Mil have/do on a daily basis and they don't feel the need for daft levers |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 2:39:35 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Unless you need a QD mount. In a QD scenario. What is a QD scenario? Do they train for that?
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Posted: 8/11/2011 2:43:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: Unless you need a QD mount. In a QD scenario. What is a QD scenario? Do they train for that? I have been in a Quick Doughnut scenario many times........... ..it can get pretty messy..........
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Posted: 8/11/2011 2:48:14 PM EDT
[#31]
I sell more LaRue mounts to Police/ Mil in this country than I do to civvies. The requirement is always a QD solution better than the optics manufacturer. They choose LaRue and for a reason. I have had tactical firearms guys sat roung here drinking tea telling me what they wan't and what they are up against. Not on the street but through this daft framework scheme the gov has going.
I sell LaRue into a number of forces, from mounts to bipod adaptors. I know the product pretty well. |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 2:48:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Unless you need a QD mount. In a QD scenario. What is a QD scenario? Do they train for that? I have been in a Quick Doughnut scenario many times........... ..it can get pretty messy.......... I'm sure it can
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Posted: 8/11/2011 2:50:45 PM EDT
[#33]
Its a quick discharge situation when the arse is not in sinc with the toilet.
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unless you need a QD mount. In a QD scenario. What is a QD scenario? Do they train for that? I have been in a Quick Doughnut scenario many times........... ..it can get pretty messy.......... |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 3:04:54 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
I sell more LaRue mounts to Police/ Mil in this country than I do to civvies. The requirement is always a QD solution better than the optics manufacturer. They choose LaRue and for a reason. I have had tactical firearms guys sat roung here drinking tea telling me what they wan't and what they are up against. Not on the street but through this daft framework scheme the gov has going. I sell LaRue into a number of forces, from mounts to bipod adaptors. I know the product pretty well. I think you'll find that there a lot of us that have been selling/ using Larue products longer than you have even been on the scene. You should also realise there are a lot of people on this board that have been actively shooting these AR thingies for a decade or more, and have never been shy at throwing money at the latest and greatest products. They also know what works and doesn't, what is necessary and what isn't. If the QD mount is so great, how come the DoD and MoD etc haven't issued large multi million $$$/£££ orders for them? Doctrine, especially with the UK authorities is to leave the items alone. Why do you think sniper rifles such as the No4T/L42 had matching numbers for the rifle and scope, and why early M16's in the British Army had the front takedown pin removed and placed with a nut and bolt? Why does the M24 and M40A5 have heavy duty rings with 1/2" nuts as attachments? Why does the ACOG come with 2 thumb screws? Why does the Aimpoint M68 CCO have a STD attachment? Why do all military attachments have normal mounting systems? ARMS were around long before Larue and they were never adopted. Larue haven't been adopted, and neither probably will. There is no need. All these things are aimed at the civilian Market that likes to spend money. Most of us have LT 104 mounts. Do you know why? It's not because they have a QD attachment, it's because they have better eye relief. If they didnt have the QD facility it wouldn't bother anyone |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 3:13:31 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Unless you need a QD mount. In a QD scenario. What is a QD scenario? Do they train for that? I have been in a Quick Doughnut scenario many times........... ..it can get pretty messy.......... As a trained MP and civilian police officer....avoid the powdered jelly donuts. If the powder doesn't get you the big dollop of jelly will. |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 3:16:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unless you need a QD mount. In a QD scenario. What is a QD scenario? Do they train for that? I have been in a Quick Doughnut scenario many times........... ..it can get pretty messy.......... As a trained MP and civilian police officer....avoid the powdered jelly donuts. If the powder doesn't get you the big dollop of jelly will. Too late..........damn those 5 packs.........  |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 3:32:16 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Mark. Why is the Sky Blue? Who gives a shit.
Quoted:
I sell more LaRue mounts to Police/ Mil in this country than I do to civvies. The requirement is always a QD solution better than the optics manufacturer. They choose LaRue and for a reason. I have had tactical firearms guys sat roung here drinking tea telling me what they wan't and what they are up against. Not on the street but through this daft framework scheme the gov has going. I sell LaRue into a number of forces, from mounts to bipod adaptors. I know the product pretty well. I think you'll find that there a lot of us that have been selling/ using Larue products longer than you have even been on the scene. You should also realise there are a lot of people on this board that have been actively shooting these AR thingies for a decade or more, and have never been shy at throwing money at the latest and greatest products. They also know what works and doesn't, what is necessary and what isn't. If the QD mount is so great, how come the DoD and MoD etc haven't issued large multi million $$$/£££ orders for them? Doctrine, especially with the UK authorities is to leave the items alone. Why do you think sniper rifles such as the No4T/L42 had matching numbers for the rifle and scope, and why early M16's in the British Army had the front takedown pin removed and placed with a nut and bolt? Why does the M24 and M40A5 have heavy duty rings with 1/2" nuts as attachments? Why does the ACOG come with 2 thumb screws? Why does the Aimpoint M68 CCO have a STD attachment? Why do all military attachments have normal mounting systems? ARMS were around long before Larue and they were never adopted. Larue haven't been adopted, and neither probably will. There is no need. All these things are aimed at the civilian Market that likes to spend money. Most of us have LT 104 mounts. Do you know why? It's not because they have a QD attachment, it's because they have better eye relief. If they didnt have the QD facility it wouldn't bother anyone You have absolutly no idea what is going on with LaRue in the UK. I'm fucking sick and tired of this 'You are not worthy' attitude to these products. LT-104, Eye Relief? Yes that was my big seller to West Yorkshire Police for that product. What are you trying to do, reveal some amazing hidden mistery that is LaRue optics mounts, something that we all missed. What you missed (because you don't sell to the forces) is that QD features ARE important to the Police. End of Story. |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 3:47:45 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mark. Why is the Sky Blue? Who gives a shit.
Quoted:
I sell more LaRue mounts to Police/ Mil in this country than I do to civvies. The requirement is always a QD solution better than the optics manufacturer. They choose LaRue and for a reason. I have had tactical firearms guys sat roung here drinking tea telling me what they wan't and what they are up against. Not on the street but through this daft framework scheme the gov has going. I sell LaRue into a number of forces, from mounts to bipod adaptors. I know the product pretty well. I think you'll find that there a lot of us that have been selling/ using Larue products longer than you have even been on the scene. You should also realise there are a lot of people on this board that have been actively shooting these AR thingies for a decade or more, and have never been shy at throwing money at the latest and greatest products. They also know what works and doesn't, what is necessary and what isn't. If the QD mount is so great, how come the DoD and MoD etc haven't issued large multi million $$$/£££ orders for them? Doctrine, especially with the UK authorities is to leave the items alone. Why do you think sniper rifles such as the No4T/L42 had matching numbers for the rifle and scope, and why early M16's in the British Army had the front takedown pin removed and placed with a nut and bolt? Why does the M24 and M40A5 have heavy duty rings with 1/2" nuts as attachments? Why does the ACOG come with 2 thumb screws? Why does the Aimpoint M68 CCO have a STD attachment? Why do all military attachments have normal mounting systems? ARMS were around long before Larue and they were never adopted. Larue haven't been adopted, and neither probably will. There is no need. All these things are aimed at the civilian Market that likes to spend money. Most of us have LT 104 mounts. Do you know why? It's not because they have a QD attachment, it's because they have better eye relief. If they didnt have the QD facility it wouldn't bother anyone You have absolutly no idea what is going on with LaRue in the UK. I'm fucking sick and tired of this 'You are not worthy' attitude to these products. LT-104, Eye Relief? Yes that was my big seller to West Yorkshire Police for that product. What are you trying to do, reveal some amazing hidden mistery that is LaRue optics mounts, something that we all missed. What you missed (because you don't sell to the forces) is that QD features ARE important to the Police. End of Story. If you say so dear 
You're saying QD mounts are necessary, I'm saying they're not, because they aren't. That's that. You just said yourself that you are selling LT 104's to Yorkshire plod for their eye relief, not for the QD facility. I assume because of all the scenarios thet they have trained for, the one they havent is the QD one 
As for what I sell, and to who..I keep that to myself. some people do know, but i certainly dont broadcast it on the internet. You don't have a scooby do Why is the sky blue? This might help, but in brief it's because of the way the atmosphere scatters light from the sun http://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/climate-weather/atmospheric/sky.htm |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 9:59:05 PM EDT
[#39]
We don't have any LaRue kit at work.
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Posted: 8/11/2011 10:24:10 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
We don't have any LaRue kit at work. That's because your Sub's never been in a QD scenario
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Posted: 8/11/2011 10:38:52 PM EDT
[#41]
Thing is if it's QD it will get fiddled with if its bolted on it most probably wont.
I can just imagine a EOTECH QD mount on the Mk44 Mini-gun used widely in the Force Protection roll by the skimmers, a little bit of a fiddle and splash the primary sighting system is over the side in the briney. The Plod (MoD, Civil Nuc, Garada and Met) that I have shot with on H&K Demonstration days have generally been clueless about whats out there as in sights, mounts, rests etc and couldn't even zero a S&B 3-12x50 properly at 100m (these were allegedly the experts (MoD) who trained everyone else). They train for a very specific role and shoot most people at very close range so the training is probably focussed more on that than marksmanship. I don't know what a QD senario is (unless related to unplanned bowel movements) but if I was offered some LaRue kit and the department was paying, clueless or not, I could probably be convinced to take it even if I didn't really need it. |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 11:09:01 PM EDT
[#42]
I woud be wary of giving the Police anything that is easily removed. They are inveterate fiddlers, particularly when bored. If it can be taken apart, or easily broken................
That said, I have been toying with the idea of a second LT-104 and two scopes. One a 1-4x compact for Service Class, the other with longer legs for distance, precision stuff. As I am going to limit myself to one centrefire rifle, it seems a good idea to have the two sighting options, easily switched........... ...anyway, I think we've lost sight of what the OP is about............ |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 11:23:51 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
I woud be wary of giving the Police anything that is easily removed. They are inveterate fiddlers, particularly when bored. If it can be taken apart, or easily broken................ That said, I have been toying with the idea of a second LT-104 and two scopes. One a 1-4x compact for Service Class, the other with longer legs for distance, precision stuff. As I am going to limit myself to one centrefire rifle, it seems a good idea to have the two sighting options, easily switched........... ...anyway, I think we've lost sight of what the OP is about............ You're not kidding, but that's already been answered so now We're having an Internet disagreement. That's what we always do
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Posted: 8/11/2011 11:44:42 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Quoted: I woud be wary of giving the Police anything that is easily removed. They are inveterate fiddlers, particularly when bored. If it can be taken apart, or easily broken................ That said, I have been toying with the idea of a second LT-104 and two scopes. One a 1-4x compact for Service Class, the other with longer legs for distance, precision stuff. As I am going to limit myself to one centrefire rifle, it seems a good idea to have the two sighting options, easily switched........... ...anyway, I think we've lost sight of what the OP is about............ You're not kidding, but that's already been answered so now We're having an Internet disagreement. That's what we always do Oh, ok then. Blue is nicer than red.............  |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 1:37:42 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I woud be wary of giving the Police anything that is easily removed. They are inveterate fiddlers, particularly when bored. If it can be taken apart, or easily broken................ That said, I have been toying with the idea of a second LT-104 and two scopes. One a 1-4x compact for Service Class, the other with longer legs for distance, precision stuff. As I am going to limit myself to one centrefire rifle, it seems a good idea to have the two sighting options, easily switched........... ...anyway, I think we've lost sight of what the OP is about............ You're not kidding, but that's already been answered so now We're having an Internet disagreement. That's what we always do Are you going to have "make-up" sex afterwards...... only if you do please warn me first so that I can log off. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 2:13:10 AM EDT
[#46]
There....everyone can be happy...
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Posted: 8/12/2011 2:13:39 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I woud be wary of giving the Police anything that is easily removed. They are inveterate fiddlers, particularly when bored. If it can be taken apart, or easily broken................ That said, I have been toying with the idea of a second LT-104 and two scopes. One a 1-4x compact for Service Class, the other with longer legs for distance, precision stuff. As I am going to limit myself to one centrefire rifle, it seems a good idea to have the two sighting options, easily switched........... ...anyway, I think we've lost sight of what the OP is about............ You're not kidding, but that's already been answered so now We're having an Internet disagreement. That's what we always do Are you going to have "make-up" sex afterwards...... only if you do please warn me first so that I can log off. Oh yeah, wtf do you know about zeroing a battle sight, either in or out of a QD scenario? |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 4:23:46 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I woud be wary of giving the Police anything that is easily removed. They are inveterate fiddlers, particularly when bored. If it can be taken apart, or easily broken................ That said, I have been toying with the idea of a second LT-104 and two scopes. One a 1-4x compact for Service Class, the other with longer legs for distance, precision stuff. As I am going to limit myself to one centrefire rifle, it seems a good idea to have the two sighting options, easily switched........... ...anyway, I think we've lost sight of what the OP is about............ You're not kidding, but that's already been answered so now We're having an Internet disagreement. That's what we always do Are you going to have "make-up" sex afterwards...... only if you do please warn me first so that I can log off. Oh yeah, wtf do you know about zeroing a battle sight, either in or out of a QD scenario? Isn't it obvious? Exponential lepton mass ratios are studied in a low energy phenomenology. In view of the known data, the mass ratio patterns of the charged leptons (CL) and widely discussed quasi-degenerate (Q-D) neutrinos are related to one another by two different traits - opposite mass ratios (xn) with large versus small exponents, and probably conformable massdegeneracy-deviation (xn –1) hierarchies. The solar-atmospheric hierarchy parameter (Δm2 sol/Δm2 atm) should have a special physical meaning in the Q-D scenario. A general generic hierarchy equation, with two opposite solutions for the CL and Q-D neutrino mass ratios, is considered. It determines a small upper bound on the neutrino mass scale with estimations (mν)max ≅ 0.30 eV at 90% C.L., and (mν)max ≅ 0.18 eV at best-fit mass squared differences. Basically, the neutrino and CL mass ratios (8) and (17), with conformable mass-degeneracy-deviation hierarchies, are probable phenomenological characteristics of the complete lepton mass-ratio pattern if the Q-D scenario is indeed realized. I'll be damned if I know how it's going to make me hit a Fig14 at 600 yds any better though |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 4:29:15 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/mfingar/LaRue_Tactical/VFZ.jpg There....everyone can be happy... WTF are you on about Piggy? 
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Posted: 8/12/2011 4:31:04 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/mfingar/LaRue_Tactical/VFZ.jpg There....everyone can be happy... WTF are you on about Piggy?
Ratchets |
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