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Posted: 11/4/2009 3:02:07 PM EST
Miss you guys a bit, not much though....

I had to post this article. I hope it is not a dupe, my arfcom searchfu may suck a little.

Hope you are all well. Stay warm! I am trying to.


Link


Testimony of a Las Vegas Police Sergeant on Pistol Registration in Nevada
By Christopher Hansen,

The following testimony is from Sgt. Petko of the Las Vegas METRO Police Department concerning the confiscation of my son’s pistol the night the Cops came to our home and tore my rotator cuff and violated many of our rights. Please remember that we called them for assistance concerning a violent, formerly convicted, trespasser and his dangerous violent pitbull that had come into our fenced backyard.

Sgt. Petko is a 23 year veteran of the Las Vegas Police force. He was the supervisor in charge of the Internal Affairs investigation to determine if the police that violated our rights, did indeed violate our rights.

Sgt. Pinjuv was a 34 year veteran of the Las Vegas METRO Police Department. He is mentioned in the questioning as the officer that decided to impound the pistol.

To let you know up front there is no Nevada Revised Statute that requires a handgun to be registered in Nevada.

Clark County does have a registration requirement but only for residents of Clark County. My son, Joshua, was not a resident of Clark County the night of the incident.

Title 12 PUBLIC PEACE, SAFETY AND MORALS, Chapter 12.04 FIREARMS AND AIR GUNS, 12.04.110: Registration of pistols within seventy-two hours. Any resident of the county receiving title to a pistol, whether by purchase, gift, or any other transfer, and whether from a dealer or from any other person, shall, within seventy-two hours of such receipt, personally appear at the county sheriff’s office, together with the pistol, for the purpose of registering the same with the sheriff. It shall be the duty of the sheriff to register the pistol, and he may, and is hereby authorized to cooperate in any manner he sees fit with other law enforcement agencies, and with licensed dealers, relative to registration of pistols, so that efficient registration shall be secured at minimum cost and duplication.

Of course a citizen of Washoe or Nye county is not a resident of Clark County so he would not be required to register a pistol with the Clark County Sheriff even if he purchased a pistol in Clark County, any more than a citizen of Wyoming would need to get a Nevada Driver’s license while visiting Clark County.

Joshua was not charged with a crime the night they confiscated his pistol. In fact, according to the testimony under oath of officers on the scene he was not even suspected of a crime. If you are not “charged” with a crime there is no law that allows police to confiscate a weapon. There is a law that allows for confiscation if you have been charged with with a public offense or crime. That law states:

NRS 202.340 Confiscation and disposition of dangerous weapons by law enforcement agencies.
1. Except as otherwise provided for firearms forfeitable pursuant to NRS 453.301, when any instrument or weapon described in NRS 202.350 is taken from the possession of any person charged with the commission of any public offense or crime or any child charged with committing a delinquent act, the instrument or weapon must be surrendered to:
(a) The head of the police force or department of an incorporated city if the possession thereof was detected by any member of the police force of the city…

With this knowledge in mind I hope you enjoy knowing how knowledgeable and well trained Las Vegas METRO Police are. (LOL) So remember when you call them for help that their level of training concerning your rights may be equivalent to Sgt. Petko and/or Sgt. Pinjuv so you better think before calling them. The life or pistol you save may be your own.

One last side note: Joshua did file a compliant and the Internal Affairs Officers refused to even consider it as a complaint. We just found out about this last week. My wife also filed a complaint and it was also never considered as being a filed complaint.

Since some METRO Police may read this so I must tell them that “NRS” stands for Nevada Revised Statute. That is different than the Clark County ordinances. The NRS applies to the State of Nevada while Clark County ordinaces apply to Clark County. Once again for Metro Officers, Nevada has 17 Counties. Each County has their own ordinances and none of the other Nevada counties requires any gun registration. To look them up yourself Click Here.

19 Q. Okay. There it is. Okay. Sergeant, it says
20 “Sergeant Pinjuv’s decision to impound the unregistered
21 handgun was in accordance with NRS and LVMPD policy,
22 and reasonable given the conduct of the Hansens while
23 confronting their neighbor.” Okay, good. Now so we
24 have something in there.
25 Did you investigate and make conclusions with

0110

1 regard to whether or not the officers had the legal
2 right to seize and impound Joshua’s handgun?

3 A. We did look at that aspect, yes.

4 Q. Do you know what law it was that Josh was
5 breaking by having this unregistered handgun?

6 A. I could not spell the exact statute out for
7 it, but it is clearly delineated in our statutes here,
8 NRS.

9 Q. It’s an NRS?

10 A. Um-hum.

11 Q. Okay. So the Metro’s view of it is that he
12 was breaking the NRS law against having an unregistered
13 handgun?

14 A. It’s not a viewpoint; it’s the law.

15 Q. Okay. But your conclusion was that he was
16 breaking a Nevada Revised Statute by having an
17 unregistered handgun?

18 A. That’s why the statement was put into the
19 report, yes. [The report is the Internal Affairs Report clearing the officers of wrong doing.]

20 Q. But you can’t — as we sit here today, you
21 can’t say, okay, it was NRS such-and-such? You don’t
22 know the number?

23 A. I don’t know the exact chapter. [Surprise! Surprise!]

24 Q. Do you know if there’s some reason why in a
25 finding like this that they wouldn’t, or that you

0111

1 wouldn’t actually quote the statute that you were
2 relying upon?

3 A. Because the original allegation was more
4 concerned with the application of force and the
5 interaction with the public, rather than the impounding
6 of the firearm.

7 Q. I believe in Joshua’s statement he complained
8 quite bitterly about the fact that his handgun had been
9 impounded. Did you happen to read his complaint there?

10 A. I did, but Joshua was not the complainant for
11 the purposes of our investigation; Mr. Hansen was. [AMAZING! Why wasn't Joshua's complaint a part of the investigation? We still do not know.]

12 Q. Can you tell me, what is the law, the NRS –
13 I’m not asking you to cite the law but to have you tell
14 me the understanding what the law says about having an
15 unregistered handgun in your possession. What is that?
16 What is the law, as you understand it? I don’t expect
17 you to quote it, just what is it?

18 [Petko's Attorney]: You can paraphrase.

19 THE WITNESS: Essentially all handguns within
20 the state of Nevada have to be registered, and an
21 individual that is in possession of a handgun that
22 isn’t registered would be in violation of the chapter.

23 BY [Our Attorney]:
24 Q. And then based on this Nevada statute that
25 makes it illegal to have in your possession an

0112

1 unregistered handgun, does the law give the police the
2 right when they find that out to confiscate and impound
3 the gun?

4 A. I believe that it does. [Too bad for us complainers that Sgt. Petko does not know the law. But then we cannot really expect the Sgt. in charge of an Internal Affairs Investigation to know what the law is because if they did then Sgt. Pinjuv would not have been exonerated and we cannot be punishing 34 year Veterans of the Police Force. They are our heroes...Right?]

5 Q. Can you tell me where it says that?

6 A. Without quoting the statute, I would not be
7 able to do that. [Surprise! Surprise!]

I am not allowed to call the sheriff to complain. His number is 702-828-3394 or his email is pio@lvmpd.com.


_________________________
V
OUT
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 4:48:35 PM EST
R

How deep is the snow...


When are you coming to visit??


D
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:22:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 5:26:33 PM EST by variable]
No snow yet

Xmas - I'll be home for a week.

Finally got a job working with contractors. Who would guess here in WI. Mainly doing range work, equipment upgrades/repairs and tracking personnel safety stuff.

I'll take a photo tomorrow.

V
OUT
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 6:27:07 PM EST
I have told people the police don't know the law. They only know the "law"and their interpretation as it pertains to the "crime" that may have been committed.....kinda

If you thought the officers involved would be disciplined, I believe you were sadly mistaken. I also think metro "file 13d " the complaint.

One would think officers with that many years experience would have a grasp of the law, but some cops I have spoken to think full autos are illegal in this state

I also would like to see the comments from the oficers who do post on this board.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 7:23:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By LVDragon:
I also would like to see the comments from the oficers who do post on this board.


Unless someone from here was there at the initial call it's difficult to know the exact particulars as to what happened when only presented with one side of the story. Curious what preceeded him getting his rotator cuff injured from his encounter with Officers. I find it a little odd that he is more upset about an impounded firearm in that story than his physical injury if he did nothing wrong. If it was unlawfully seized/impounded get a court order demanding it be released.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 7:47:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By LVDragon:
I have told people the police don't know the law. They only know the "law"and their interpretation as it pertains to the "crime" that may have been committed.....kinda

If you thought the officers involved would be disciplined, I believe you were sadly mistaken. I also think metro "file 13d " the complaint.

One would think officers with that many years experience would have a grasp of the law, but some cops I have spoken to think full autos are illegal in this state

I also would like to see the comments from the oficers who do post on this board.


Where to start-

1- The ordinance changed. Prior to, there was no separation between resident of the county, state, or visitor. So, that would permit the arrest or citation for failing to register the firearm.

2- The article uses a person that did not complete the arrest, did not actually conduct the investigation, and is partially correct as NRS permits seizure of evidence, when it is related to a crime.

3- The article is part of a deposition. Why would someone post a deposition? Their attorney surely wouldn't be that stupid, but you never know. Odds are the case was tossed out. Now the person is bitter, pissed off, and posting this story everywhere (which is being done regularly)

4- Where is the rest of the deposition? It is easy to fall into a word trap, when you are against a good attorney. Sometimes it is obvious, other times it is not. What did the other attorney say or ask to counteract or contradict this information? Who knows....

5- If you want people on the side of the person making a complaint, it is easy to sway using emotional topics and carefully chosen information. Where is the rest of the info? Arrest reports and associated documents would be great to read, but that would eliminate the emotion generated. A seizure can be done for safekeeping. This person claims the officers injured his son, but didn't take him to jail. Was he cited for the offense instead? Not being charged with a crime "that night" could be a word game. Sure, he was charged the next day. Word games are great and fun to play, just learn to read between the lines.

So, discipline is not an issue. It is ROUTINELY handed out. Of course, the media doesn't care about that and apparently people like LVDragon don't want to hear the truth either. I don't know where file 13 is, but your way of thinking may want to go there

Here is another thought... before a person is arrested the officer must know the violation for filing the paperwork. Pretty simple as the information is on the computer and a guide is distributed, which contains the elements and associated laws for the common violations. Did the person here review the arrest paperwork or was it included for his review? Probably not, as they were not his reports. That could have refreshed his memory as to the ordinance vs. statute violation.

Yep, full autos are illegal. There is an exemption for weapons registered with the ATF. Ask the officers how many legal full autos they have seen. I know very few.

That should be good for now, as there is enough food to chew on and stir debate.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 8:04:08 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 10:06:41 PM EST
I had a firearm taken "as a matter of departmental policy" by Carson City Sheriffs Deputies back when I was too young to know to call them out on it. I was the VICTIM and righteous complainant. All the same, a shit fit with the DA got it released when they realized they had taken the property of residential burglary victim.
This was back in 94 and feels like a million years ago, but it occasionally irritates me to think about.
The deputies involved were incredibly professional and courteous and aside from siezing my brand new firearm while the meth fueled asshole that broke into the garage to get revenge on the girl that dumped him was still at large, I was very happy with their work.
This case is probably entirely different and probably warrants some benefit of the doubt, as it has been pointed out that a lot of info may be missing. All the same, one bad experience can sour a person for a lifetime...
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:06:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/5/2009 10:48:58 AM EST by HK94dude]

Originally Posted By RDP:

-snip

5- If you want people on the side of the person making a complaint, it is easy to sway using emotional topics and carefully chosen information. Where is the rest of the info? Arrest reports and associated documents would be great to read, but that would eliminate the emotion generated. A seizure can be done for safekeeping. This person claims the officers injured his son, but didn't take him to jail. Was he cited for the offense instead? Not being charged with a crime "that night" could be a word game. Sure, he was charged the next day. Word games are great and fun to play, just learn to read between the lines.


Can somebody can point me to this NRS, county statue, etc?
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 11:55:04 AM EST
You will not find one.

Think about it, there is not a law for everything. You are going to the hospital and your gun is on your hip and the hospital won't take it. It gets impounded for safekeeping.

It is not a "seizure", but a temporary possession of an item to protect the owner's or public's interest. Seizure was probably misused by me in the quote.

I know "public", but how does this apply? The police find a gun in the middle of the street. Sure, the owner could return or the owner could be unknown. The weapon is a public safety issue. Same goes for vehicles left unattended on public streets, running, on blocks, or in such a condition that it is a risk to the public (think stripped out, burned out, etc.)

The NRS covered by the article deals with criminal aspects. Not everything is a crime. You can be suicidal and try to kill yourself. No crime. You do this and possess a gun, the weapon will be impounded for safekeeping.

The property isn't seized, but being held for the safety of the property or the safety of the public. Like the vehicle examples above, merely moving the vehicle out of the public will remove any potential threat to the public.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 4:54:14 PM EST
Actually I do like to hear the truth.

I also know ther are 3 sides to every story. my side, your side and the truth. The way the story was written it seemed like
the officers had problems communicating the differences between the NRS and county ordinances.


I have not met either officer ( to my knowledge) but if Doc gives a "thumbs up" it is saying alot.

Link Posted: 11/5/2009 8:02:52 PM EST
Hey, look what else is on that retarded website:

http://www.independentamerican.org/2009/11/03/jim-duensing-side-of-the-story-shot-by-metro/
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