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Posted: 10/26/2012 4:23:47 PM EST
Title says it all. Do you think we will ever see semi automatic rifles allowed for hunting during bear or deer season?
Many states out there let people use 'em......why not us? I wouldn't care if it had a 5 round mag restriction, just let me use a semi!!!!
Link Posted: 10/26/2012 5:02:22 PM EST
Okay, I'll play. Why the need to allow semi-auto? And don't think I'm a fudd, because I own numerous semi-auto rifles.
Link Posted: 10/26/2012 5:33:19 PM EST
I'll play too.

Maybe that's all a person has, and wishes to hunt with it.

––Fargo007
Link Posted: 10/26/2012 5:33:26 PM EST
Because there are so many rifles that would work great for hunting if we were allowed to.
Because a guy with a lever gun or pump action can waste shells just as quickly as a person with a semi.
And most importantly because it would push me over the edge to getting a 300 blk upper.
Link Posted: 10/26/2012 7:42:41 PM EST
I don't know. Maybe the same reason they only allow flintlock muzzleloaders in muzzleloading season? They don't want to see someone carrying an AR or AK into the woods during deer season??
Link Posted: 10/27/2012 1:31:52 AM EST
I would really enjoy shooting groundhogs and coyote/fox with a semi....other than that, i'll pass
Link Posted: 10/27/2012 3:16:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By hball22:
I would really enjoy shooting groundhogs and coyote/fox with a semi....other than that, i'll pass

Agree.
Link Posted: 10/27/2012 4:53:04 AM EST
Not saying I wouldn't support it, but even if it were allowed at this point I think I'd probably still be taking my bolt guns out for deer and small game. I do wish I could hunt small game with my semi auto rimfire pistols though.
Link Posted: 10/27/2012 5:46:08 AM EST
It's not allowed because the Fudds still hold sway.
Keep your powder dry. The insufferable prick-Fudds will not be in charge forever.
Link Posted: 10/27/2012 6:27:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2012 6:29:37 AM EST by MCBallpeen]
Hey, give them (the gamer commission) a break. They now allow the use of cross bows in archery season. What more could you want? I'm sure in the future, that they'll allow semi autos to be used for hunting. Like right after the military goes to some sort of directed energy weapon (laser, phaser, plasma rifle in 40 watt range, etc.). Then I'm almost positive they'll allow the use of semi auto weapons.

Seriously could you see the number HUMAN of casualties with semi autos on the first day? I mean pumps are bad enough. We have guys spraying and praying with pump action rifles and five round magazines. Give them a semi auto and they won't even bother to use the sights. It'll look like a war zone. It all boils down to slob hunters. You know, the kind of guys that don't even bother to sight in their deer rifles at the range or if they do manage to sight in their rifles they do it at 25 yards at a pie plate tacked to a tree (usually with a camp or other occupied structure behind it) and think that's good enough. Yeah, those guys. There is usually about one per every two hunters and I'm being generous in that assessment. One of the reasons I stopped hunting.
Link Posted: 10/27/2012 1:41:12 PM EST
In NYS you have three types of hunting, Shotgun in some counties semi-autos are legal, bow only and than rifle counties were semi autos are legal

I have hunted nys with an 1100 rifle slug barrel, an ar15, sks, m1 garand. I like the follow up shot if needed.

I always have heard the same statement "Seriously could you see the number HUMAN of casualties with semi autos on the first day?" '

It always boils down the person behind the trigger, I wish PA would move to new century and allow it, time will tell i hear they are talking about allowing it for varmint hunting if i read it correctly which is a step forward.
Link Posted: 10/27/2012 2:03:43 PM EST
IMO, if you can own it, you should be able to hunt with it(except for grenades, because then you would be left with squirrel and deer soup, and who wants that). Anything less is infringing upon your rights.
Link Posted: 10/27/2012 6:42:42 PM EST
I know grown men here in rural PA who won't buy an AR because Dad dosent approve.

Dad dosen't approve because you "can't hunt with em and they're a waste of shells".

Around here its all about guns and religion - as long as you can hunt with the guns. Alot is gonna have to change before you can hunt with a semi auto rifle here.
Link Posted: 10/28/2012 5:51:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By Keystone10mm:
I know grown men here in rural PA who won't buy an AR because Dad dosent approve.

Dad dosen't approve because you "can't hunt with em and they're a waste of shells".

Around here its all about guns and religion - as long as you can hunt with the guns. Alot is gonna have to change before you can hunt with a semi auto rifle here.


Guess I'm a rebel....my dad said this for years, I own 3 bolt action rifles for "hunting" and over 30 evil black rifles. He just shakes his head every time he looks in my safes.
Link Posted: 10/28/2012 6:05:46 AM EST
+1.

There's a trick of language being played here. You absolutely CAN hunt with a semi-automatic rifle.

The elmer fudd game commission won't allow it. Those are different things.

That doesn't mean it cannot be done, or that the rifle is itself unsuitable in any way.

But the fudds phrase the argument that way to attempt to close the discussion with that conclusion.

7.62x39 is ballistically a great choice for deer. As is any .308 loading that could run in a modern sporting rifle.

––Fargo007
Link Posted: 10/28/2012 7:03:52 AM EST
Too many fudds
Link Posted: 10/28/2012 9:45:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By John87:
. Anything less is infringing upon your rights.


and what rights would that be?
Link Posted: 10/28/2012 11:20:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By hball22:
Originally Posted By Keystone10mm:
I know grown men here in rural PA who won't buy an AR because Dad dosent approve.

Dad dosen't approve because you "can't hunt with em and they're a waste of shells".

Around here its all about guns and religion - as long as you can hunt with the guns. Alot is gonna have to change before you can hunt with a semi auto rifle here.


Guess I'm a rebel....my dad said this for years, I own 3 bolt action rifles for "hunting" and over 30 evil black rifles. He just shakes his head every time he looks in my safes.


Same here! My assortment of "hunting" firearms is very minimal and cheap! Id rather put my cash in EBR's and handguns.
Link Posted: 10/28/2012 1:57:29 PM EST
There was a bill introduced this year that failed to go anywhere that would have allowed semiauto .22 for small vermin hunting.

Could i take my piston driven AR hunting if i removed the piston?
Link Posted: 10/28/2012 2:36:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 3:34:32 PM EST
Pennsylvania has moved forward greatly in allowing modern weapons for hunting. Archery season now includes crossbows and muzzle loaders can now be percussion cap and in-line models instead of just flintlocks.

When the rest of the world is using laser rifles for hunting we may be allowed to move up to 3-shot semi's.
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 5:01:07 PM EST
I'm fine the way it is for the most part. I don't want deer, elk and bear hunted by the idiots out in the woods using semi's and 30 round mags. I watched a guy a few years ago empty a 20 round mag in a 308 caliber pump rifle at a deer, he hit it 4 out of 20 and it was still alive. I really wanted to kick his ass.

I have never needed to fire more than one shot to kill 20+ deer.

But I would love to open up on the coyotes with my AR. I don't hunt them as "sport", I just kill the bastards.
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 5:25:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2012 5:28:49 PM EST by PA452]
I'm sure it's not a unique characteristic of PA, but it seems like we do have a lot brain dead and asshole hunters in this state. Every year I see hunters hunting where they know they're not supposed to be, and some of them have an aggressive attitude when you politely tell them they're not supposed to be there.

The worst to me are the hunters that don't understand the concept of a backstop. They shoot at running deer with no thought given to where all those bullets are going that miss the deer. I've seen that here; guys shooting at deer on the horizon of a hill, or with "woods" as their backstop. Naturally they have no idea what's in the woods, but hey, chances are one of those trees will stop the bullet before it reaches that house or the random person out for a stroll...

We have a lot of those people here on ARF. A year or two ago I called out someone in GD for doing this; blazing away (and missing) at a deer running across an open field with nothing lined up behind the deer but woods. I was amazed at how many people jumped to his defense.

A few years ago we had an incident locally where a guy was blasting away with a rifle at a deer running across a field. He shot a lady in the leg about 800 yards behind the deer.
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 6:22:18 AM EST
Give it a few more years. Gun Culture 2.0 will be the majority in no time at all.
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 6:53:13 AM EST
I doubt it. I've been scared a couple of times I've gone deer hunting, and that was just fudds with 760's. I couldn't think what it would be like if they had auto loaders.
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 7:33:53 AM EST
Hell, I would use one as a single shot if I could do by just leaving the mags at home.
Last year I used my son's Rossi single shot for hunting and let him carry my bolt gun. Feather lite little carbine was just the ticket.
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 7:41:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By damcv62:
I doubt it. I've been scared a couple of times I've gone deer hunting, and that was just fudds with 760's. I couldn't think what it would be like if they had auto loaders.

From hunting in states where semi are legal I can tell ya that it's not much different. Slob hunter is a slob hunter whether he's carrying a lever action or a semi.
I'd think it'd be better because an AR owner might be more likely to do more shooting in the off season, but to be honest I couldn't tell the difference between first day in PA vs. first day in WV.
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 10:30:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2012 10:31:25 AM EST by FlyingGorilla]
Locally we have problems with out of towner (Philly, NJ & NYC) types who come up here to hunt. In my life I had never heard of a "sound shot" until we moved here and I began hunting on the wife's grand dad's place.

The sound shooters blaze away at snapping twigs, falling acorns and in my case, a sneezing hunter. Every time the explanation comes back "I heard a deer and took a shot at the sound." Not fun when you're the cause for that twig snapping or doing the sneezing "I thought it was a deer snorting."

Dealing with incoming rounds is not suposed to be part of hunting, but those clowns make it something you've got to consider. I do not want to spend any time in the same woods with those people and I might be hunkered in the basement if thse morons were out on opening day armed with semi-automatics.

Until there can be a handle gotten on the city types who come out to the woods in PA, keeping a limit on the amount of firepower they can misuse is a method of keeping the damages down. I'd love to see the rules change because I have an M1A I'd love to use for a hunt without travelling out of state.

But not if it means the slobs will be out there in the woods around me armed with semi-auto leadslingers.
Link Posted: 10/31/2012 5:49:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2012 5:54:57 AM EST by Addicted2Fish]
The solution to "sound shots" and other stupidity is to lengthen the season to something much more reasonable like a month and a half or so. What I see are three main major problems with how things are now that doesn't happen in states with a normal length season: excessive crowding, pressure on the hunter to score in a short time span, and no incentive to develop skill for an activity that takes place at most 1/26th of the year. Making the season longer would alleviate all of that. As for the stupid city types, get law enforcement to do their jobs for a change, which again would be helped by lessening the concentration.

Meanwhile trying to prevent stupidity by having semi autos not legal is stupid.
Link Posted: 10/31/2012 2:52:40 PM EST
It just makes me sad when shooters use the same language as the anti's when it comes to hunting.

"Streets will run with blood!" "No one NEEDS a gun that fires semi automatically"

We have no problem explaining to people that "it's not the gun, it's the person using it" when talking about gun violence or CCW issues. Why is it that we give such a pass when it comes to hunting? Don't get me wrong, I hate slob hunters more than your average hunter after having a couple of real close calls. But just as we wouldn't allow these statements to stand on CCW or castle doctrine I think we need to challenge our own thought process when it comes to using semi's in the field.
Link Posted: 11/1/2012 12:08:33 AM EST
I haven't hunted in a number of years now. If I could use my AR, I'd probably take it up again.
Link Posted: 11/1/2012 3:45:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2012 5:04:49 AM EST by fargo007]
Originally Posted By Blackfriar:
It just makes me sad when shooters use the same language as the anti's when it comes to hunting.

"Streets will run with blood!" "No one NEEDS a gun that fires semi automatically"

We have no problem explaining to people that "it's not the gun, it's the person using it" when talking about gun violence or CCW issues. Why is it that we give such a pass when it comes to hunting? Don't get me wrong, I hate slob hunters more than your average hunter after having a couple of real close calls. But just as we wouldn't allow these statements to stand on CCW or castle doctrine I think we need to challenge our own thought process when it comes to using semi's in the field.


CONSISTENCY. Well Said bro.

As an afterthought, I will add that a LOT of the silly gun laws that exist have a genesis in "hunting" or "game commission" type decisions. This is one of the principal sources for stupid firearms regulations.

––Fargo007
Link Posted: 11/2/2012 5:40:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By Blackfriar:
Originally Posted By damcv62:
I doubt it. I've been scared a couple of times I've gone deer hunting, and that was just fudds with 760's. I couldn't think what it would be like if they had auto loaders.

From hunting in states where semi are legal I can tell ya that it's not much different. Slob hunter is a slob hunter whether he's carrying a lever action or a semi.
I'd think it'd be better because an AR owner might be more likely to do more shooting in the off season, but to be honest I couldn't tell the difference between first day in PA vs. first day in WV.

This.

Also, we've done this thread many times here and the usual people have the same opinion.

WE did get crossbows legalized so there is hope. That was like pulling hen's teeth from the usual suspects.

I would love to hunt with some of my semi-autos but those opposing that in PA are many and they are vocal.
Link Posted: 11/6/2012 4:36:58 AM EST
I would hunt if I could use my semi autos.
Link Posted: 11/6/2012 7:39:45 PM EST
I find it very silly that AR based weapon systems are so common in the US but yet we cannot shoot Pigs or groundhogs with them in PA
Link Posted: 11/6/2012 7:53:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By 1-75Ranger:
I find it very silly that AR based weapon systems are so common in the US but yet we cannot shoot Pigs or groundhogs with them in PA


Sure you can...just don't get caught. I rode with an SP-1 carbine in the tractor growing up. Killed more than a few yotes and groundhogs with it. For legit semi auto hunting...I don't see it happening in PA. Too many brain dead old fudds who think the only way to take a deer is with a bolt action or Rem 760/7600 in .30-06...and anything else is just not enough. After leaving PA I've found that many states allow semi auto hunting, but then again they actually know how to manage their game animals as well.

CMS
Link Posted: 11/8/2012 1:14:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By Blackfriar:
Hell, I would use one as a single shot if I could do by just leaving the mags at home.
Last year I used my son's Rossi single shot for hunting and let him carry my bolt gun. Feather lite little carbine was just the ticket.


That should be all you need. I was thinking about getting one of those handi rifles in 300blk, that would be a nice little deer getter for where I've been.
Link Posted: 11/8/2012 8:51:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By damcv62:
Originally Posted By Blackfriar:
Hell, I would use one as a single shot if I could do by just leaving the mags at home.
Last year I used my son's Rossi single shot for hunting and let him carry my bolt gun. Feather lite little carbine was just the ticket.


That should be all you need. I was thinking about getting one of those handi rifles in 300blk, that would be a nice little deer getter for where I've been.


OMGWTFBBQ!! I didn't even know there was such a creature! Oh my.........300blk is getting harder and harder to resist.
Link Posted: 11/11/2012 5:23:09 PM EST
In a word....Fuddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd­ddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd­ddddddddddddddddddddddddd !
Link Posted: 11/12/2012 1:34:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By guitarguy774:
I would hunt if I could use my semi autos.

Not a very good reason TO hunt.

It's called hunting, not blasting.

The idea is to hunt and kill it with one shot...at least that's how I have always done it. One shot, think of it more as a sniper...one shot one kill.
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 1:22:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By OlCrow:

Originally Posted By guitarguy774:
I would hunt if I could use my semi autos.

Not a very good reason TO hunt.

It's called hunting, not blasting.

The idea is to hunt and kill it with one shot...at least that's how I have always done it. One shot, think of it more as a sniper...one shot one kill.


That single shot can often be made more precisely with a semi auto which the person using it has had more practice than a boring bolt gun that only sees time outside the safe 3 weeks a year.
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 7:17:50 AM EST
My SR-25 will out shoot most "hunting" rifles. 6 MOA rifles are not my thing.
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 1:23:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By OlCrow:

Originally Posted By guitarguy774:
I would hunt if I could use my semi autos.

Not a very good reason TO hunt.

It's called hunting, not blasting.

The idea is to hunt and kill it with one shot...at least that's how I have always done it. One shot, think of it more as a sniper...one shot one kill.


To bad alot of snipers are using semi's now...M110, Larue OBR's some countries are using LMT MWS...lets not forget all the SR-25's out there
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 8:45:56 PM EST
If we could get them approved for varmint/predator hunting and progress from there, we'd be headed in the right direction. I also would not oppose a 5 round magazine restriction, for a few reasons. Firstly, it would counter the Fudd argument that hunters would be spraying and praying with 20 and 30 round magazines. Limiting ammo capacity to that of the ever popular AAR (Amish Assault Rifle), otherwise known as the Rem 760/7600, would completely take away that angle. Also, if you need more than five rounds to kill a deer or bear you need to spend more time at the range practicing.

FWIW, I've heard guys on opening day of rifle season with pump actions shoot so fast you'd swear they were manning a belt fed weapon. Also personally witnessed a guy empty an 870 slug gun at a deer faster than I can accurately shoot an AR. The deer was at fifteen yards and he missed four times.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 4:08:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By guitarguy774:
My SR-25 will out shoot most "hunting" rifles. 6 MOA rifles are not my thing.

What hunting rifle shoots 6 MOA? Many hunters might shoot that badly but not many hunting guns are that bad.

My 1964 Remington 700 BDL 30-06 is 1 MOA or better and has killed over 20 deer with just one shot each, and two black bear.

Hunting and hunters have changed since I started in 1968...that's why I don't hunt very much anymore. I was taught at the start to practice with your hunting guns well before hunting season and to always try my best to achieve a one shot fast kill of the game. That also means using a caliber of rifle that will get the job done with one shot. I'm positive my 30-06 is far better at that than a 223.

Just one small example of why I think the way I do about this. When I was just starting to hunt my dad bought me a single shot shotgun for small game hunting. Most of my friends had pump shotguns and I wasn't happy with the old Savage single at all. Well I learned to make that one shot count and knocked down many ring necks while my friends with their pumps blasted their three shots and rarely hit anything. I learned to make one shot count...they never did.

As I said above somewhere, I would love to use my AR's for coyotes (the only thing I still hunt). But I have no need or desire to use them for deer or bear. Just my opinion here...I don't really care if PA would allow semi's for everything. I am not saying those that want it shouldn't have it.


Link Posted: 11/15/2012 6:44:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By OlCrow:

Originally Posted By guitarguy774:
My SR-25 will out shoot most "hunting" rifles. 6 MOA rifles are not my thing.

What hunting rifle shoots 6 MOA? Many hunters might shoot that badly but not many hunting guns are that bad.

My 1964 Remington 700 BDL 30-06 is 1 MOA or better and has killed over 20 deer with just one shot each, and two black bear.

Hunting and hunters have changed since I started in 1968...that's why I don't hunt very much anymore. I was taught at the start to practice with your hunting guns well before hunting season and to always try my best to achieve a one shot fast kill of the game. That also means using a caliber of rifle that will get the job done with one shot. I'm positive my 30-06 is far better at that than a 223.

Just one small example of why I think the way I do about this. When I was just starting to hunt my dad bought me a single shot shotgun for small game hunting. Most of my friends had pump shotguns and I wasn't happy with the old Savage single at all. Well I learned to make that one shot count and knocked down many ring necks while my friends with their pumps blasted their three shots and rarely hit anything. I learned to make one shot count...they never did.

As I said above somewhere, I would love to use my AR's for coyotes (the only thing I still hunt). But I have no need or desire to use them for deer or bear. Just my opinion here...I don't really care if PA would allow semi's for everything. I am not saying those that want it shouldn't have it.




That's why I said my SR-25, not SR-15
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 9:46:51 AM EST
^ Exactly. Too few people know about AR's in .308, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, etc. in PA because of the prohibition of hunting with them. Hundreds of thousands of them would sell overnight if they were legal to use here.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 10:22:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By Addicted2Fish:
^ Exactly. Too few people know about AR's in .308, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, etc. in PA because of the prohibition of hunting with them. Hundreds of thousands of them would sell overnight if they were legal to use here.

Well I'll be damned, they make them in other calibers!

I'm shocked.

I said 223/556 because 99 percent are of those calibers. People will use them if they were allowed since any centerfire as far as I know is allowed. I talked to a guy a few years ago up in Elk county while bear hunting that was using a 222...for bear. I'm convinced that 90 percent of PA hunters are complete fools...sort of like the huge crowd of "fisherman" that show up for opening day of Trout season.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 3:22:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By OlCrow:

Originally Posted By Addicted2Fish:
^ Exactly. Too few people know about AR's in .308, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, etc. in PA because of the prohibition of hunting with them. Hundreds of thousands of them would sell overnight if they were legal to use here.

Well I'll be damned, they make them in other calibers!

I'm shocked.

I said 223/556 because 99 percent are of those calibers. People will use them if they were allowed since any centerfire as far as I know is allowed. I talked to a guy a few years ago up in Elk county while bear hunting that was using a 222...for bear. I'm convinced that 90 percent of PA hunters are complete fools...sort of like the huge crowd of "fisherman" that show up for opening day of Trout season.


90 seems a little high. Maybe 87?
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 4:46:35 PM EST
Yea, I know...a bit high. Maybe 30 percent.

87 percent on opening day of every season.



Link Posted: 11/15/2012 6:04:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By OlCrow:
Yea, I know...a bit high. Maybe 30 percent.

87 percent on opening day of every season.



I don't think I'd go that low.

Seems like every year I see PA hunters doing insanely stupid things. So many of them have no concept of firearms safety, or a back stop. I've seen them blaze away at running deer with absolutely no consideration as to where all those rounds that are missing will end up. Just a couple years ago we had a local woman shot by a kid something like 800 yards away shooting at deer running across a field.

And then you have the guys who will hunt where they know they're not allowed and don't seem to care how many times they get caught, or the inconsiderate hunters who will set up their stand right beside yours.

I don't know what it is about getting a deer that brings this out in people.
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