Beleg,
    there are many trainers to choose from around Minnesota and surrounding States.  From what I understand of your postings is that you are seeking a course that will deal with mindset, but also may be a wake up call to get your Wife into an awareness of self defense state of mind.  I cannot speak for other training organizations, only ours.  We offer many courses.  All of our courses deal with self defense and awareness in a 360-degree ever changing world.  Correct mindset is the most important piece of the puzzle.  Yes we teach shooting, but we also teach common sense based on reality.  Carrying a firearm is a privelidge, and with that comes a great responsability.  We believe there are many factions to self defense that include awareness, mindset, preparedness, avoidance, and that there are many levels of self defense that people should know.  

One of the first questions I always ask people in class is why do you want to carry a gun.  The most common answer is self defense of themselves, but also loved ones.  People need to realize that if they are serious about self defense of themselves or their loved ones, that it is a way of life.  They need to seek out training and practice often.  Training should not only be in the area of firearms, but also in mindset, preparedness, awareness, avoidance, and a whole multitude of other force options.  People need to live their life in a constant state of awareness of their surroundings and what is going on around them.    

Our Handgun-1 course is based in the responsabilities of carrying a firearm.  We spend time on legalities, awareness, mindset, avoidance, force options, shooting, and follow through.  We spend time on common sense things that most people take for granted, like where to sit in a restaurant so you can see who comes in the door.  We are very serious about what we teach, we keep it real world, simple, and effective.  For our shooting portion we are not the type of training organization that will only shoot a quick 30rd qualifier, rather we spend a great amount of time on dealing with carrying the handgun, types of concealment and issues, working from concealment, engagements distances run from touch distance back to 25yds in this course.  All will shoot approximately 300rds in this course.  Our courses are all hands on, as we believe that people learn and retain more by doing, rather than by lecture alone.  We have Cold Weather Training sessions where people can come and train with heavier clothing and learn what holster issues they might have, or doing manipulations with numb or gloved hands, this cousre is a must IMHO for all who carry a handgun in Minnesota.    

We have many other courses that also might fit what you are looking for.  Some of which might be our Defense-Alternative/Reality-Based-Training.  This is a 2-day course that we usually do when the weather is warmer as it is held outside.  This course deals a lot with mindset and awareness.  All will go away trained in soft empty hand techniques, hard empty hand techniques, chemical and pepper sprays, impact tools, and electronic incapacitation devices.  We end the course with a  block of reality based training session, which is always a favorite, this is what drives that mindset and awareness home.  This training is basically where we put students in real world scenarios with actors.  The actors might be friend of foe, and this could change as the scenarios play out.  Students need to decide if someone is a danger and figure out a way of dealing with it.  Students have options of all force levels to include avoidance, verbal skills, soft empty hand, hard empty hand, chemical/pepper sprays, electronic incapacitation devices, impact tools, or the firearms.  We use Simunitions & UTM's for the firearms options, inert sprays, special impact tools, and special electronic incapacitation devices.  All students will be forced to make decisions and act upon them, this is where students really learn what is involved in self defense.  This course is usually what drives the mindset home, and makes people realize just how over confident that they have been up until now in their options and abilities.  

We also do a Gunfighting From Vehicles course.  This is also a 2-day course that puts the student in situations of being forced to fight from their vehicle and around other vehicles.  This is usually a real eye opener to people.  We put vehicles on the range and spend the time shooting from and around them.  Students are tasked in having to deal with 360-degree engagements while seated in a vehicle, as well as being outside around vehicles.  We end this course with a force on force session with Simunitions and UTM's as well.  

The other one that might be of interest is our Gunfighting While Protecting Others and Around People.  This is a 2-day course that puts the student in situations of having to defend themselves or others in an environment where other people are present, as well as how to deal with loved ones like your kids at the same time that may be present.  This course is a must for anyone that has a spouse, significant other, or kids.  We spend a great deal of time on how to fight and handle protection of others at the same time.  This is also a hands on course, and we do usually have a  kid or two present to practice with at the range to drive the reality of this topic home.      

We have many courses and I have hopefully spelled out a few of the highlights.  Please seek out training from a Professional Training Organization, and make sure the Instructors have a real world verifiable background in the topics that they are teaching.

Stay Safe & CY6,
Greg Sullivan "Sully"
Chief Instructor
SLR15 Rifles
TheDefensiveEdge.com                

 Watch your posts & behave, people...  

There is one point that a lot of people here seem to forget. Not every gun owner is looking for high level of training. I know this is a foriegn concept to most of us, but it is true. Several months ago, there were mulitple polls placed in the tactics and training forum here on the site. In one of the polls, there was a large number of people who repsonded that they would never get and/or had no interest in getting training.

There are also new shooters or average shooters who are intimidated by training classes. There could be many reasons why this fear exists, but it doesn't change the fact it's out there. Some of these people are just looking for instruction on basic gun handling. You know, how to load, unload, clean, store, etc...

In VA, a resident only needs to attend a basic NRA class to get a CHP. They can sit through "Basic Home Firearms Safety" and receive a permit to carry. Does the class give them any info on carry a conceled weapon? No, not in the least. But, there are plenty that attend these classes and feel that is enough. Some over time will decide to seek futher training, but most will not. There are other options for those that want it, but it isn't required.

The MN members should feel lucky they have so many options open for them to choose from. Just because some people don't take advantage of all their choices, doesn't mean there shouldn't be any.

Quoted: Fair enough. Brian E. Payne.  Sgt. with Princeton Police Department.  27 years LEO vetran.  Operate Concealed Defense.  I have been doing permit to carry classes ever since the law was passed.  My students normally come from family members of Law Enforcement Officers I have trained over the years. I do not advertise very much, I go by word of mouth mainly.  I was not trying to promote myself or my business on the previous thread.  If I were, I would have put down dates, times, and costs of upcoming classes.  I apologize if I left that impression. You are correct in stating that there is no way an insructor can prepare a student for a deadly force situation in eight hours.  But - an instructor can go a long way towards giving the student the tools needed to set themselves up to be in a situation to prevail.  And I am not talking about a draw from concealement.  Has more to do with a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterence and de-escalation.  I think an equal split between lecture, scenario based training, and range time makes for a good class.  But that is just me.  Sorry your permit to carry class didn't fill your needs. As for not promoting classes on AR15.com.  I have read enough threads to know the response that would come of it.  Just like now.  Take the time to read some of the posts and tell me there isn't just a little bit of negative feelings toward any class not affiliated DE or Tactics.  Besides the fact I really don't want to do a lot of classes.  My personal time, at this time in my career, is very important to me and my wife.  I also spend a lot of my spare time training and shooting competition. Again, I have nothing against DE or Tactics.  I have been a student of many classes over the years, including two with Sully.  I applaud them for the good job they have done and are still doing. Just saying there are other options out there if people care to look.  And not all are "Johny Come Lately".  Not meaning to pick on anyone, just that Johny Come Lately phrase used in a previous thread just seems to sum up the general feeling about other classes when they are mentioned here. Ford is way better than Chevy.  1911's are better than Glocks.  (these are used as examples only).  I think you get the idea. Payne

Thank you for taking the time to respond to this thread.

There has been some problems in the past with flame wars over training in this forum. This issue has been addressed, and some of the root causes have been removed. In the future, I'm sure there won't be an issue with discussions about training.

As I and others have stated already, having multiple options for training is only a benefit to the shooting community.

Quoted: Quoted: I do not advertise very much, I go by word of mouth mainly.  I was not trying to promote myself or my business on the previous thread.  If I were, I would have put down dates, times, and costs of upcoming classes.  I apologize if I left that impression. Perhaps promote was too strong of a word, but when you encourage others to seek out alternative training, and you're one of the alternatives, some disclosure is appropriate. You are correct in stating that there is no way an insructor can prepare a student for a deadly force situation in eight hours.  But - an instructor can go a long way towards giving the student the tools needed to set themselves up to be in a situation to prevail.  And I am not talking about a draw from concealement.  Has more to do with a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterence and de-escalation.  I think an equal split between lecture, scenario based training, and range time makes for a good class.  But that is just me.  Sorry your permit to carry class didn't fill your needs. Lecture material is something I can get by surfing the web.  I don't need to pay someone $150.00 to suggest putting an additional lock on my bedroom door, installing motion activated lights, and that parking ramps are dangerous places. However, having an instructor show you the physical aspects of defensive shooting is something not easily learned from reading, and can only be learned by doing. As for not promoting classes on AR15.com.  I have read enough threads to know the response that would come of it.  Just like now.  Take the time to read some of the posts and tell me there isn't just a little bit of negative feelings toward any class not affiliated DE or Tactics. Negative feelings?  No...I would view it as obviously hard core enthusiasm, and tough criticism of other offerings....This is people's time, money, and...lives we're talking about here.   The guys here are the technology equivalent of the hardcore gamers who sleep outside a BestBuy so they can be the first one to own an Xbox 360.  2nd best just isn't good enough. How many of the TWC instructors are qualified to teach(and have teached): Shooting from inside a vehicle? Exiting a vehicle and using it for cover? How to remove a loved one from the line of fire and retreat? Do any of the TWC instructors even teach malfunction drills? As FedGunner already stated, not only is this stuff educational, it's downright fun! And not all are "Johny Come Lately".  Not meaning to pick on anyone, just that Johny Come Lately phrase used in a previous thread just seems to sum up the general feeling about other classes when they are mentioned here. I don't recall the JCL comment, however I'm sure it refers to the training companies that suddenly sprang up after the law was passed to grab cash from the initial stampede of people wanting permits.  The hurdle to become a certified trainer is pretty low.  I won't even get in to the fact that the initial authors of the law specifically wrote in their own certification company into the law.  If that doesn't make them look bad, I don't know what would.

I'm pretty sure this has been covered in the past. Everyone is welcome to post their suggestions on training schools in this forum. You are welcome to make your suggestions. You are not allowed to brow beat others into agreeing with your choice.

You've found a school that works for you and that you like. This is great for you. Everyone is not like you, and not everyone may want to do the type of training you do. To sit here and claim that your choice should be the only choice is absolutey stupid. Even the trainers from your favorite school attend/have attended a wide variety of schools out there. Why? So they can have a broad pool of knowledge to work from.

Some gun owners probably don't wish to do the type of training that goes on at DE. This could be because of many reasons. I took LFI-I several years ago and we had a gentlemen in the class that was kind of new to shooting. He was also a little older. He quit after the first day because he knew he wasn't up to the class. Some people need to start small and work their way up. It isn't your place to judge or condemn them. If you have all the answers you need, and know what your looking for, that is great. Allow the other members to make up there own minds on what they want.

<Edited>

Quoted: Back40 You must carry a Glock! Relax ( he says with the smooth low tones he learned to use in de-escalation classes).  We are all friends and fellow shooters here.  You keep them things bunched up like that, you will never get'em back out again. All I ask is for everyone to keep an open mind when it comes to training.  Maybe even get training from other instructors now and then.  You might not know what you've been missing. Just a note also - go to any IDPA or USPSA shoot and you will see lots of people shooting from inside vehicles, using vehicles for cover, retreating while using accurate fire for cover, shooting on the move, even shooting from moving vehicles.  If you try 3-gun you can do all of the above with handgun, shotgun, and rifle.  Great fun, not a replacement for good training I grant you, but good shooting experience none the less.

You were doing good until your Glock comment. That kind of thing just smacks of unprofesionalism AFAIC.

Quoted: VA-gunut The Glock statement was made in jest.  I own two of them and think they are one of the better weapons systems out there.  I was going to put one of those colorful smiley faces behind the statement but have no clue how to get them on there. I also appreciate back40's enthusiasm for the training aspect of our lives.  I love having students like that in classes, makes the instructors jobs much easier. Sorry to have sounded unprofessional. This thread has taken a left turn and I apologize for that also.  Back to the shadows I go.

OK, point taken. I edited your other post with a smile face. I'm not sure if that is the one you would've chosen, but I though it belonged.

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