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Posted: 1/10/2005 2:17:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2005 2:18:19 PM EDT by Boom_Stick]
They wont ship one here but they will to everyone else.  Said it's something about our state law but I'm unaware of it.  Anyone know?

Here's the eeeeevil part.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 2:30:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2005 2:32:28 PM EDT by lethalppl]
lol I swear officer i didnt ship the bolt assembly to my house CMMG and few other companies will ship it to wa so maybe ther policy or others are breaking the law.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 2:31:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2005 2:31:42 PM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]
::sigh::




RCW 9.41.220
Unlawful firearms and parts contraband.

All machine guns, short-barreled shotguns, or short-barreled rifles, or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, illegally held or illegally possessed are hereby declared to be contraband, and it shall be the duty of all peace officers, and/or any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or the state of Washington, to seize said machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or parts thereof, wherever and whenever found.

Link Posted: 1/10/2005 3:14:43 PM EDT
Damn, I guess that means that a mail order M249 is out, too.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 4:01:07 PM EDT
The farging Sportsmans Guide wouldn't send me an HK91 Stock Set, Mag or Rail for my AR. What a buch of BS!!!
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 4:04:26 PM EDT
Well that sucks.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 4:25:19 PM EDT
Everything used to be ok until BATF raided PW Arms in Redmond, and thid section of the RCW got front and center attention causing many companies to take steps to protect themselves.


8,000 machine-gun kits seized from Redmond arms importer

Federal agents seized crates containing nearly 8,000 machine-gun kits from a Redmond arms and ammunition importer during a search earlier this week, according to documents filed in U.S. District Court.

The weapons were part of a deal between P.W. Arms and a Chilean arms exporter who was brokering the sale of the weapons from the Chilean Army.

According to a search warrant, P.W. Arms had imported 16,000 of the weapons — at a cost of $84 each. The so-called gun "kits" — comprised of a disassembled rifle and including a 20-round magazine and a bayonet — were being advertised in gun trade magazines for $250 each.

Importing the rifles would be legal if, according to the court documents, they had been "deactivated" by blow-torching or otherwise permanently removing parts of the gun that allow it to fire several rounds with a pull of the trigger, according to the documents.

The rifles then could be rebuilt to fire in a legal, semiautomatic mode, in which a round is fired each time the trigger is pulled.

However, the warrant alleges that the Chilean exporter had been instructed by P.W. Arms or one of its partners to leave untouched key portions of the rifles' mechanism that could allow it to fire as a machine gun.

The local Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) and the U.S. Attorney's Office is investigating. Attempts to contact P.W. Arms President Stacy Prineas or his vice president, Doug Work, were not successful yesterday afternoon.

ATF agents became aware of the weapons — Brazilian-made FN-FAL assault rifles — after a search in December 2001 of a gun-importing business in North Carolina. That business, Interordnance of America, had purchased another 8,000 rifles from the same Chilean dealer, and ATF experts determined the weapons still were technically machine guns under U.S. firearms definitions.

Last month, the local ATF office was contacted by a P.W. Arms official who told them about the guns in the Redmond warehouse. Investigators suspect that word of the North Carolina raid might have made its way back to Prineas and his partner and Work.

The search warrant states that Prineas had attempted to sell thousands of the parts kits to firearms retailers, and that a few of them suspected that the weapons were illegal.

Link Posted: 1/10/2005 5:50:32 PM EDT
that explains why Interordnance is so strict about selling their AK47 kits to WA residents, they require you to write a statement about your intentions before they'll ship (even then they'll probably remove the FCG).
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 6:51:22 PM EDT
I was under the impression that m16 bolt carriers were not illegal in Wa.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 7:08:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2005 7:09:31 PM EDT by Terrato]

Originally Posted By HABU:
I was under the impression that m16 bolt carriers were not illegal in Wa.



"...or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun"

...should mean that since an M16 bolt carrier works just fine in a semi-auto AR-15, and doesn't make it function as a machine gun, that part is not intended exclusively as a machine gun part.

On the other hand, I am not a lawyer.  
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 8:54:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Terrato:

Originally Posted By HABU:
I was under the impression that m16 bolt carriers were not illegal in Wa.



"...or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun"

...should mean that since an M16 bolt carrier works just fine in a semi-auto AR-15, and doesn't make it function as a machine gun, that part is not intended exclusively as a machine gun part.

On the other hand, I am not a lawyer.  


I was thinking the exact same thing, but I'm just gonna get the RRA special RBPrecision has right now.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 9:01:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By migradog:
The farging Sportsmans Guide wouldn't send me an HK91 Stock Set, Mag or Rail for my AR. What a buch of BS!!!

Are these companies just being careful or do they just not understand the law. And by the way a AR-15 bolt will funtion in a m-16 will it not? Could take my upper slap it on a registered lower and blast away. I would like to think that the only parts you could not sell are a M-16 Lower , DIAS or a select fire assembly .
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 9:26:51 PM EDT
WA sucks......
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 9:37:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JaredB:

Originally Posted By migradog:
The farging Sportsmans Guide wouldn't send me an HK91 Stock Set, Mag or Rail for my AR. What a buch of BS!!!

Are these companies just being careful or do they just not understand the law. And by the way a AR-15 bolt will funtion in a m-16 will it not? Could take my upper slap it on a registered lower and blast away. I would like to think that the only parts you could not sell are a M-16 Lower , DIAS or a select fire assembly .



Can you blame them for not wanting the BATF crawling up their asses?
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 9:40:48 AM EDT
GUYS!!!  Please note:  per Federal law, an AR15 becomes an illegal, unregistered machine gun if it includes ANY machine gun parts, including "only" an M16 carrier, or an M16 trigger, etc.  So WA law doesn't matter, you're commiting a felony unless you're installing the M16 carrier in a registered FA gun.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 9:55:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By seminseattle:
GUYS!!!  Please note:  per Federal law, an AR15 becomes an illegal, unregistered machine gun if it includes ANY machine gun parts, including "only" an M16 carrier, or an M16 trigger, etc.  So WA law doesn't matter, you're commiting a felony unless you're installing the M16 carrier in a registered FA gun.



WRONG!!!!

let me say that again:

WRONG!!!


Just incase you didn't hear it the first two times:

WRONG!!!

An M16 bolt carrier is 100% legal in an AR15.


Get the facts straight before you start quoting non-existant laws. I tihnk i'm going to follow Ekie's lead nad call this mysterious non-existant law  USC 10-10-321 (then your number).
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 9:58:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 10:02:21 AM EDT by Da_Bunny]
Assuming you wish to remain legal, you can go to the Puyallup gunshow and pick up a fully shrouded bolt carrier with just enough cut away on the bottom to not function as a full auto carrier (1/4" or so...) from Oly Arms at their table. It's perfectly legal and not even slightly controvertial,  nor open to interpretation by improperly educated officials. Gunshow prices are great as well and you might get to see me.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 2:58:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 3:02:33 PM EDT by Boom_Stick]

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
Assuming you wish to remain legal, you can go to the Puyallup gunshow and pick up a fully shrouded bolt carrier with just enough cut away on the bottom to not function as a full auto carrier (1/4" or so...) from Oly Arms at their table. It's perfectly legal and not even slightly controvertial,  nor open to interpretation by improperly educated officials. Gunshow prices are great as well and you might get to see me.


I've bought a few (including a Durachrome) in the past but all of them had the unshrouded pin.  The very first one I bought was shrouded and I asked for the same thing again but Tom said they weren't available, and that I got lucky cause the first one was an M16 carrier milled back 1/4" to meet civilian sales.  
I was going to get a carrier group over the counter this week, but assumed you were still making the unshrouded ones so I went with an EE special.  I will however need an enhanced carrier in the near future, and now I know you've got 'em I'll just drive up there and get one.

Just tell Tom not to throw things at me when I show up!
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 3:04:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 3:04:46 PM EDT by lu380]

Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
They wont ship one here but they will to everyone else.  Said it's something about our state law but I'm unaware of it.  Anyone know?

Here's the eeeeevil part.



Order it, have it shipped to my house, and I'll ship it to you (assuming it's legal for me to do so).  I'll even Paypal you the $120 for collateral until you get the carrier.

Problem solved.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 3:09:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lu380:

Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
They wont ship one here but they will to everyone else.  Said it's something about our state law but I'm unaware of it.  Anyone know?

Here's the eeeeevil part.



Order it, have it shipped to my house, and I'll ship it to you (assuming it's legal for me to do so).  I'll even Paypal you the $120 for collateral until you get the carrier.

Problem solved.


I was going to do that but I read the RCW that Phil posted above, and considering the ATF raid just a little while back I decided to play it safe.  Thanks anyway though, I would have definately took you up on it.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:51:23 PM EDT
Per ATF, the following is subject to registration:  "Any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for converting a weapon into a machinegun".  The M16 bolt carrier is designed specifically for the M16 machine gun (unlike the bolt itself, the AR and M16 both use the same bolt).  The M16 bolt carrier is one of the conversion pieces needed to convert an AR into a machine gun.  Having ANY M16-specific part installed within an unregistered AR is a felony.
Just ask ATF if you don't believe me.  
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 9:55:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2005 10:09:00 PM EDT by Boom_Stick]

Originally Posted By seminseattle:
"Any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for converting a weapon into a machinegun".    



It's has been debated over and over till ARFcom members are blue in the face.  The M16 carrier does not convert the AR into a machinegun and it will never make an AR15 fire full auto.  I dont care how slick or  high speed an ATF agent feels he is.....he cant make an AR15 fire full auto (convert to machingun) with an M16 carrier in its receiver.
If you have additional parts that constitute the manufacture of a machinegun then you're up the creek.  However, OF ALL the parts that make full auto possible, the carrier is the ONLY part that can be used in both.  W/o sear holes drilled in the receiver and additional parts in your possesion, no lawyer or ATF noob can prove possession of a carrier was intent to make an AR full auto.

The wording of RCW 9.41.220 however supersedes the ATF. Farging bastages......
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 10:00:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By seminseattle:
Per ATF, the following is subject to registration:  "Any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for converting a weapon into a machinegun".  The M16 bolt carrier is designed specifically for the M16 machine gun (unlike the bolt itself, the AR and M16 both use the same bolt).  The M16 bolt carrier is one of the conversion pieces needed to convert an AR into a machine gun.  Having ANY M16-specific part installed within an unregistered AR is a felony.
Just ask ATF if you don't believe me.  



Bullshit. M16 carriers were the original AR carriers. Colt switched later on. It is not designed soley for use in an M16--note that it functions in an AR15 and is preferable for its heavier weight. Besides, my uppers came from the factory that way.
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