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Posted: 12/28/2005 4:19:58 PM EDT
I am thinking about buying a CCW handgun, in hopes that WI gets Personal Protection Act passed. Plus, I want a new handgun.

I am looking at buying a used HK USP Compact .40 for $489. I have other guns that will work for CC but I like the size and balance, plus it has a safety.


So what handguns will you guys be buying or carrying???

Chris
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 4:43:12 PM EDT
G-19 that i own already.I'm looking at a kahr in 45 cal.I hope we get CCW this next year,the streets are very dangerous here in milwaukee.I take my glock with me even when i take out the trash.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 4:51:57 PM EDT
Probably the primary will be a Glock G19 that I'm picking up Friday. I may pick up a Kahr PM9 for a smaller option.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:29:01 PM EDT
Sig P228 for summer Sig P220ST in winter when I can conceal abit more bulk.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 8:07:00 PM EDT
Glock 31 for me.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 9:07:15 PM EDT
Initially my Sig SP2009. I ordered a CTAC and a beltman belt for it the other day. Eventually when funds permit I would like a S&W 638.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 11:49:22 PM EDT
Anyone know of a concealed holster for a Desert Eagle .50AE 6"?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:25:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 12:40:15 AM EDT by turboman]
Since I'm retired, during the week I'll carry my Taurus PRO MILLENIUM .45 in an Air Marshall type cross-draw holster for shopping trips and general bumming around. Light weight, super easy to carry. Packs a wallop on the other end.

On the weekends, when I'm prowling the back alleys of Milwaukee late at night with $100 bills hanging out of my pockets, my Kimber PRO CDP .45 in a Galco "Miami Classic" shoulder holster with two extra mags in opposite side pouches. ...just kidding. Maybe not...
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:53:14 AM EDT

I don't own guns (lost them in a tragic ice fishing incident).

<­BR>

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:52:45 AM EDT
I'm trying to get a feel on some .45ACP guns. Only semi-auto's I've owned before has been 1911's and .22's. I can imagine a prosecuter having a field day if I shot someone with a single action 1911.

I wanna get my hands on a stock glock 30. I hefted a used one at a gander mtn in Jansville, but it had some kind of aftermarket magazine bumper with a finger rest that actually left no room for my pinky.

John
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:18:51 AM EDT
Glock 19
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:25:31 AM EDT
The same gun I've been carrying my Baby Eagle. And I'll get a compact or semi-compact one for in the summer eventualy.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:26:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rob940:
Anyone know of a concealed holster for a Desert Eagle .50AE 6"?




actually yes I do. I;d have to dig like hell to find it though but I have seen at least one before.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 9:38:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rcav8r:
I can imagine a prosecuter having a field day if I shot someone with a single action 1911.

John




If it is a valid shoot (and it better be) why would the type of gun you are carrying make a diference?
I would rather shoot someone 7 times with a 1911 than 30 or 40 times with a 380 (to get the same result)
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 9:41:41 AM EDT
Glock 23 w/ a CTAC
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:53:20 AM EDT
I will have to go and purchase a Springfield XD subcompact. I really like my 4" XD40 and it would be a great opportunity to buy it a baby brother.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:04:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Drawcut:
Probably the primary will be a Glock G19 that I'm picking up Friday.



Welcome to the fold.
What finally pushed you into the evil combat tupperware?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:20:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Throttle-Junkie:

Originally Posted By Drawcut:
Probably the primary will be a Glock G19 that I'm picking up Friday.



Welcome to the fold.
What finally pushed you into the evil combat tupperware?



I've been shooting an XD so I was already broken in for the tupperware thing.

But after shooting more Glocks (thanks Newbhunter - among others) I've found that I prefer it over the XD. The XD's trigger is light at first, then heavier at the end - better for target shooting but I like the Glock's single weight of pull better for defensive use. It has a shorter, crisper trigger reset, lower bore axis to grip, and a better finish. Plus the grip that Sully teaches seems to work the best with the Glock - and I like that grip. I don't care for the stock Glock sights but I plan on changing those anyway.

All of that is IMHO, of course.

So, answer the OP's question already T-J!
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:59:42 PM EDT
The same one I carry now.

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:03:55 PM EDT
I already have a Glock 17C so I would probably get one of the smaller framed Glocks as I am already pretty comfortable with them.

The CTAC is the way to go. Comp-Tac stuff kicks ass.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:58:48 PM EDT
A Barrett .50 with a cutdown stock and a 3" barrel, under my raincoat.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 1:11:45 AM EDT
XD9 service model.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:16:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By turboman:
A Barrett .50 with a cutdown stock and a 3" barrel, under my raincoat.


Have you worked up a load for this yet?
I'm interested in your chrono readings.

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:34:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Throttle-Junkie:

Originally Posted By turboman:
A Barrett .50 with a cutdown stock and a 3" barrel, under my raincoat.


Have you worked up a load for this yet?
I'm interested in your chrono readings.




Muzzle blast can be slightly intrusive. Using Mil-Spec armor piercing. After the 1st shot I'm always unconscious for 5-10 minutes and unable to hear anything for an hour. Kinda hate to shoot it actually.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:56:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By turboman:

Originally Posted By Throttle-Junkie:

Originally Posted By turboman:
A Barrett .50 with a cutdown stock and a 3" barrel, under my raincoat.


Have you worked up a load for this yet?
I'm interested in your chrono readings.




Muzzle blast can be slightly intrusive. Using Mil-Spec armor piercing. After the 1st shot I'm always unconscious for 5-10 minutes and unable to hear anything for an hour. Kinda hate to shoot it actually.



You need to invest in a REALLY efficeint brake/flash hider.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 12:47:28 PM EDT
One idea is to get a variation of what the local cops carry. If you have to use it and some prosecutor with a grudge against gunnies wants to bust your chops at least he can't make the claim you were using a Rambo special edition ported, flared and chambered for the .50 X 10,000 omni-destructo cartridge and therefore YOU were the one out to kill somebody. For instance, here in Madison the cops carry Glocks. Just get a concealable Glock and don't trick it out. If they try to say you had an unsafe gun or a preferred weapon of (insert label of preferred crimial element here) your lawyer simply points out that it is for all practical purposes the same weapon the police use and that argument is safely shot down. Quite frankly I like the idea of concealed carry, but the aftermath of having to use it would be a nightmare here in WI. You can't spit without hitting a loony lefty with a law degree and most of those are employed by state and local government-at least here in Dane County. I am certain that they would LOVE to have a case to smear on front pages about "crazed gun toting vigilanties eager to try out their hot-rodded guns on human beings". You may have guessed I have a rather low opinion of certain elements of Dane County. And yeah, if the bill passes I will probably get a Glock 23. Not because it's a favorite, but because it is effective and reliable and is pretty much the same as the standard issue for any beat cop in Madison. That's my two cents worth...
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 2:35:39 PM EDT
If I recall Ayoob Massad says just about the same thing. He testifies for the defense as an expert witness in many, many citizen self defense shootings.

He even goes so far as to discourage hollow point bullets. The prosecution will claim that the citizen shooter was a hot headed redneck out looking for someone to thrill kill because he's using bullets that are designed to explode upon impact, tearing off an arm or leg.

Of couse, if FMJ's are used, the prosecution will accuse the citizen of loading his gun with "cop killer" bullets.

You ain't going to win except in the grossest cases of self defense. Like when the citizen has already been shot by the bad guy and he tried to retreat and feared he was going to be shot again. If you kill the guy his family will sue you for wrongful death in both criminal and civil courts. If you wound him he will sue you for same reasons. And you'll probably lose everything you own, even if you win.

God bless the Court system. ...nuff said before I get really pissed.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 3:55:34 PM EDT
There again, if you're lucky (like me) and know a cop, ask them what they use for ammo. If its one of those law enforcent only rounds, find something similar. If the locale gendarmes are using hollowpoints, it'll be pretty hard for any over-zealous anti-gun prosecutor to make the case against you if your ammo is substantially the same. On the other note, if and when we get concealed carry, we then need to get a good Castle Doctrine like Florida now has. Must be the Cubans down there-that's the reason they pass good law ahead of anyone else. They know Marxixt crap when they hear it and fight it!
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:08:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 4:12:23 PM EDT by FMD]

Originally Posted By 11thwarrior:
On the other note, if and when we get concealed carry, we then need to get a good Castle Doctrine like Florida now has. Must be the Cubans down there-that's the reason they pass good law ahead of anyone else. They know Marxixt crap when they hear it and fight it!



I agree we need a castle docrine, but Florida has had CCW without for many (like 8 or so) years. It was definately not the folks in Dade county pushing for it. Just an FYI.

-FMD
(FL Non-res permit holder)

ETA: I'll be carrying Federal HST's if it happens. Looks like I got all but one of the boxes of 45ACP +P in SE Wisconsin that didn't make it into LEO use. Gotta love having a shooter for a wife. I told her to buy two boxes of 20, and she came home with five boxes of 50!

Also, turboman: we still have yet to do lunch. Let's set a date!
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:43:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMD:

Originally Posted By 11thwarrior:
On the other note, if and when we get concealed carry, we then need to get a good Castle Doctrine like Florida now has. Must be the Cubans down there-that's the reason they pass good law ahead of anyone else. They know Marxixt crap when they hear it and fight it!



I agree we need a castle docrine, but Florida has had CCW without for many (like 8 or so) years. It was definately not the folks in Dade county pushing for it. Just an FYI.

-FMD
(FL Non-res permit holder)

ETA: I'll be carrying Federal HST's if it happens. Looks like I got all but one of the boxes of 45ACP +P in SE Wisconsin that didn't make it into LEO use. Gotta love having a shooter for a wife. I told her to buy two boxes of 20, and she came home with five boxes of 50!

Also, turboman: we still have yet to do lunch. Let's set a date!



Wait, hold on. You lost your guns in that ice fishing incident. What exactly are you going to use to shoot those .45 HSTs? Harsh language?

You and T-J are such a mystery in this thread. I may have to sic Scooby-Doo and the gang on you to unravel this mystery. Jinkies!

And BTW: I've been able to order 9mm HSTs from Striechers' website. I believe they have other calibers as well.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 7:02:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By turboman:
If I recall Ayoob Massad says just about the same thing. He testifies for the defense as an expert witness in many, many citizen self defense shootings.

He even goes so far as to discourage hollow point bullets.



I don't believe that's an accurate characterization of his position.


The prosecution will claim that the citizen shooter was a hot headed redneck out looking for someone to thrill kill because he's using bullets that are designed to explode upon impact, tearing off an arm or leg.

Of couse, if FMJ's are used, the prosecution will accuse the citizen of loading his gun with "cop killer" bullets.

You ain't going to win except in the grossest cases of self defense. Like when the citizen has already been shot by the bad guy and he tried to retreat and feared he was going to be shot again.



That would depend on your prosecutor. I don't believe that's representative of most of them.


If you kill the guy his family will sue you for wrongful death in both criminal and civil courts.


Do you have any idea of what you're talking about? The family cannot sue you in criminal courts.


If you wound him he will sue you for same reasons. And you'll probably lose everything you own, even if you win.


You do have an umbrella liability policy in place, right? Besides your homeowner's insurance or renter's policy?

Turboman, I don't think any of your claims above hold water. Take off the tinfoil hat
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:39:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 8:46:00 PM EDT by turboman]

Originally Posted By glenn_r:

Originally Posted By turboman:
If I recall Ayoob Massad says just about the same thing. He testifies for the defense as an expert witness in many, many citizen self defense shootings.

He even goes so far as to discourage hollow point bullets.



I don't believe that's an accurate characterization of his position.


The prosecution will claim that the citizen shooter was a hot headed redneck out looking for someone to thrill kill because he's using bullets that are designed to explode upon impact, tearing off an arm or leg.

Of couse, if FMJ's are used, the prosecution will accuse the citizen of loading his gun with "cop killer" bullets.

You ain't going to win except in the grossest cases of self defense. Like when the citizen has already been shot by the bad guy and he tried to retreat and feared he was going to be shot again.



That would depend on your prosecutor. I don't believe that's representative of most of them.


If you kill the guy his family will sue you for wrongful death in both criminal and civil courts.


Do you have any idea of what you're talking about? The family cannot sue you in criminal courts.


If you wound him he will sue you for same reasons. And you'll probably lose everything you own, even if you win.


You do have an umbrella liability policy in place, right? Besides your homeowner's insurance or renter's policy?

Turboman, I don't think any of your claims above hold water. Take off the tinfoil hat



____________________________________________________

That's OK.... Walk all over me just like the attendants do here at the home because I'm an old, senile wounded veteran of the Spanish-American war in a broken wheelchair. I suppose now you're going to accuse me of maligning all our heroic crippled war veterans...

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:46:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 9:47:19 PM EDT by glenn_r]

Originally Posted By turboman:
That's OK.... Walk all over me just like the attendants do here at the home because I'm an old, senile wounded veteran of the Spanish-American war in a broken wheelchair. I suppose now you're going to accuse me of maligning all our heroic crippled war veterans...



If you took offense, I apologize. That wasn't intended. Your information, however, was inaccurate IMHO and needed to be addressed.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 5:21:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 5:23:18 AM EDT by FMD]

Originally Posted By glenn_r:

Originally Posted By turboman:
That's OK.... Walk all over me just like the attendants do here at the home because I'm an old, senile wounded veteran of the Spanish-American war in a broken wheelchair. I suppose now you're going to accuse me of maligning all our heroic crippled war veterans...



If you took offense, I apologize. That wasn't intended. Your information, however, was inaccurate IMHO and needed to be addressed.



Somehow, Glenn, I think TM was just being a bit sarcastic, and I don't think he really took too much offense. I had to laugh at the parts in red!

TM, you forgot to put a smiley at the end of your post. <---like that.

BTW, I agree with you G, except for the tinfoil hat thing. Of course my own "Aluminum Cranium Protection Device" disallows certain ideas from having a discourse with the little man inside my head...

Drawcut: "Jinkies"?





I've developed a technique where I hold the rimmed area of a .45 between my teeth and pierce the primer with my tounge...

Ordering from Steicher's in MN was my plan B (since they don't like "civillians" [except TJ] in their WI store). I had the ammo on order with Shooter's Shop in West Allis two days after the class in July, but their distributor (I forget who it is, but they're here in SE WI) told them that all the 45 +P HST was headed to agencies first, then to the shops. I would guess that it would be the case everywhere.

I'm just happy that I got them.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 1:23:22 PM EDT
Glock 19 with two 15 rd mags loaded with 115 gr Corbon on person.

In truck I will carry 10 extra high cap mags with Corbons as well as two G18 33 rd mags with corbons.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 1:56:56 PM EDT
Can you even imagine the furor if you ran into a roaming gang on Hampton Avenue, were threatened, and you took out 10-15 of them. The liberal press and Tv media would go absolutely insane with glee.

With a laser sighted .45 this is easily accomplished.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 5:17:48 PM EDT
Let me offer public apologies to turboman. I re-read how I responded. I stand behind my comments but the way in which I presented them was inappropriate. The roll-eyes and tinfoil comment were not called for.

Turbo, I owe you a drink if you'll accept it.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:51:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By glenn_r:
Let me offer public apologies to turboman. I re-read how I responded. I stand behind my comments but the way in which I presented them was inappropriate. The roll-eyes and tinfoil comment were not called for.

Turbo, I owe you a drink if you'll accept it.



You were right. I rethought the "Ayoob" thing and what he advised against were custom reloads, from a Defense strategy. And Criminal court doesn't result in lawsuits, civil lawsuits follow. And Homeowners protection blanket might pay defense costs, but I don't think (only guessing) that felony defenses aren't covered.

No apologies needed. You're one of the good guys and I hope my statement didn't cause you any anquish. Have a great new Year & God speed. .
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:21:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By turboman:
If I recall Ayoob Massad says just about the same thing. He testifies for the defense as an expert witness in many, many citizen self defense shootings.

He even goes so far as to discourage hollow point bullets. The prosecution will claim that the citizen shooter was a hot headed redneck out looking for someone to thrill kill because he's using bullets that are designed to explode upon impact, tearing off an arm or leg.

Of couse, if FMJ's are used, the prosecution will accuse the citizen of loading his gun with "cop killer" bullets.

You ain't going to win except in the grossest cases of self defense. Like when the citizen has already been shot by the bad guy and he tried to retreat and feared he was going to be shot again. If you kill the guy his family will sue you for wrongful death in both criminal and civil courts. If you wound him he will sue you for same reasons. And you'll probably lose everything you own, even if you win.

God bless the Court system. ...nuff said before I get really pissed.




I think A-Boob has some interesting ideas (I've read some of his books), but he takes some of the legal stuff a little too far.

What it boils down to, is regional politics. And not using hollowpoint ammo is just stupid.

in Milwaukee or Madison, I would be much more afraid of a BS prosecution than I would here in Watertown, or in a northern county. Fox Valley is up in the air I would guess.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:23:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 9:25:26 AM EDT by TheKill]
If it passes, it'll be my 1911 for me. Maybe a stubby G-lock in the summer when I tend to be less clothed and around the water.


ETA - changed my mind. G-lock 17 or 19 in winter, and stubby in summer. I would be pretty pissed if I had to shoot someone with my 1911 and it got confiscated.

Glocks are relatively disposable.....
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:58:15 AM EDT
Never even thought about confiscation. The gun would be evidence. I would have presumed you'd get it back after trial, but maybe not, in case the verdict is ever appealed and that could take years. Probably never see it again. Sure takes away the urge to carry my Kimber.

Just got a Taurus PT145 PRO yesterday and it's beautiful. Only cost $295 at GunsAmerica. 10+1 .45's. Short, light, easy carry. All the magazine tests praise it. The pinky finger even fits on the grip. The smaller Glocks are only two fingers on the grip. Anyway. just one opinion.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 2:10:14 PM EDT
Probably my S&W 5906, it's what I CCW down here in AL.

Been thinking about getting a 4506, tho......
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 3:52:21 PM EDT
FN 5.7 for me amd para c6 45 acp for back up..Photoman and I are Certifide instructers so we can help you out if this Passes.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 4:44:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:19:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 9mmkaboom:
FN 5.7 for me amd para c6 45 acp for back up.



Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:31:13 PM EDT
Shooter for a wife?? I didn't know that was possible! Been living in south central WI too long I guess. So, she got a sister? Just kidding!
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:48:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 9mmkaboom:
FN 5.7 for me amd para c6 45 acp for back up..Photoman and I are Certifide instructers so we can help you out if this Passes.



Just curious... The 5.7 was developed to defeat military type body armor and to be issued to armored vehicle crews, pilots, crew-chiefs and the like. It (as far as I have read) was intended not necessarily to put someone down instantaneously but rather to give them a wound needing treatment and maybe some discouragement. I've heard this was the same philosophy behind the .30 carbine. So my question is this: Why choose this cartridge over .45, .40 .357 Sig, or even 9 mm? Is there a new loading I am unaware of for this gun? $800+ weapon and $35 dollar mags seem a bit pricey to deliver a 31 grain bullet. A stock Glock or a Commander size .45 seems to me to be more bang for the buck, pun intended. But I could be wrong...
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:43:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMD:

Originally Posted By glenn_r:

Originally Posted By turboman:
That's OK.... Walk all over me just like the attendants do here at the home because I'm an old, senile wounded veteran of the Spanish-American war in a broken wheelchair. I suppose now you're going to accuse me of maligning all our heroic crippled war veterans...



If you took offense, I apologize. That wasn't intended. Your information, however, was inaccurate IMHO and needed to be addressed.



Somehow, Glenn, I think TM was just being a bit sarcastic, and I don't think he really took too much offense. I had to laugh at the parts in red!

TM, you forgot to put a smiley at the end of your post. <---like that.

BTW, I agree with you G, except for the tinfoil hat thing. Of course my own "Aluminum Cranium Protection Device" disallows certain ideas from having a discourse with the little man inside my head...

Drawcut: "Jinkies"?





I've developed a technique where I hold the rimmed area of a .45 between my teeth and pierce the primer with my tounge...

Ordering from Steicher's in MN was my plan B (since they don't like "civillians" [except TJ] in their WI store). I had the ammo on order with Shooter's Shop in West Allis two days after the class in July, but their distributor (I forget who it is, but they're here in SE WI) told them that all the 45 +P HST was headed to agencies first, then to the shops. I would guess that it would be the case everywhere.

I'm just happy that I got them.



Daaaaang, you must have some hard teeth dude. I'll have to try that tomorrow.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:00:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 11thwarrior:
Just curious... The 5.7 was ...



I've only handled one once. Somebody at the club has one, and was showing it to PX in the parking lot after a meeting. I horned in and played with it for a few seconds. It's really light; felt like a toy. Didn't get to shoot it. The mag configuration looks like it loads like an AR or AK mag, successive rounds just press down and lock under one lip, as opposed to pushing down the whole stack and sliding the round under both feed lips.

I'd like to play with one, but it seemed like a novelty item to me. If I wanted a vest busting pistol, it'd be a $100 CZ-52. I'll grab a CZ if I run into a deal or trade on one, but no hurry. Last time I almost had one, the deal fell apart over $5. My top offer was $120 and the lowerst he would take was $125. I saw him later and he admitted that he ended up selling it at another show for less than I was offering. Oh well ....... it'd just be another caliber that I'd have to stock.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:15:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 5:16:12 AM EDT by FMD]

Originally Posted By 11thwarrior:
Shooter for a wife?? I didn't know that was possible! ... So, she got a sister?



She's got three. All married and in upstate NY.

I got the pick of the litter.

Kaboom, hold on to that little C6 like your life depends on it. Limpwristing will cause stovepipes, and unfortunately it's very easy to do on that little monster.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 9:43:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheKill:
If it passes, it'll be my 1911 for me. Maybe a stubby G-lock in the summer when I tend to be less clothed and around the water.


ETA - changed my mind. G-lock 17 or 19 in winter, and stubby in summer. I would be pretty pissed if I had to shoot someone with my 1911 and it got confiscated.

Glocks are relatively disposable.....



Hmmm...never thought of that. I guess you're right - more of a disposable CCW.

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