Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/25/2006 11:56:25 AM EDT
A friend told me he heard on the news the ATF is shutting them done for violations spanning the last 9 years. Any details?
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 12:02:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 12:22:57 PM EDT
Feds Revoke County Gun Dealer's License
Saturday, February 25, 2006
WBAL Radio and The Associated Press


Federal agents have revoked the firearms license of a prominent Baltimore County gun shop.

Valley Guns, of Parkville, is owned by Sanford Abrams, who is a National Rifle Association board member.

Federal agents revoked his license, saying he has repeatedly failed to account for hundreds of guns listed in his inventory since 1997.

The license seizure came a day after a federal judge dismissed a civil lawsuit filed by the store.

Abrams sued to stop the federal government from taking his license to sell firearms at the store. It has been open since 1954.

Abrams says he's sure he'll appeal.






Link Posted: 2/25/2006 2:21:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 2:23:11 PM EDT by KorpiszZ389]
Damn... Walter's and HNP on Harford Rd. both closed for similar reasons, I think. Now Christian Soldier is the only shop left up my way on Harford Rd. Looks like he'll be doing a hell of a business, if he's not already.

Maybe it's a curse... My family has bought guns from all three of these places, but we've never been in Christian Soldier.

Link Posted: 2/25/2006 2:38:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KorpiszZ389:
Damn... Walter's and HNP on Harford Rd. both closed for similar reasons, I think. Now Christian Soldier is the only shop left up my way on Harford Rd. Looks like he'll be doing a hell of a business, if he's not already.

Maybe it's a curse... My family has bought guns from all three of these places, but we've never been in Christian Soldier.




Walter's closing had NOTHING to do with BATFE violations. It was investigated and CLEARED by BATFE more than a year prior to closing. The building was sold by the landlord and rather than move the business, the owner retired (100% in the clear).

But, it was an unfortunate loss to the gun-buying public.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 2:51:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 2:54:52 PM EDT by KorpiszZ389]
Not to argue but... I heard from a local reliable source that prior to Walters' closing (less than a year before), the owner was given an ultimatum by ATF to either get rid of his inventory, and close his business within "X ammount of time" or face jail time and/or fines. Dan was an OK guy, but I have inside info that he was into some bad dealings, and not necessarily just firearms (if that was the case). (this does not imply drugs)
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 3:04:52 PM EDT
The news also said that the ATF is going to scrutinize EVERY gunshop in Maryland now. They're looking to shut down gun stores now. I guess thats their new tactic. Maybe Sarbanes pulled this off in his last term, or someone else high up at the federal level.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 4:20:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kingfish:
The news also said that the ATF is going to scrutinize EVERY gunshop in Maryland now. They're looking to shut down gun stores now. I guess thats their new tactic. Maybe Sarbanes pulled this off in his last term, or someone else high up at the federal level.



Great! That's just what we need.

Damn liberals
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 4:49:30 AM EDT
I've never been a big fan of Valley Gun, but I hate to see any gun dealer go through that. What really sucks is they had a nice M1A that I was eyeballing. Guess that makes my decision for me. I feel bad for Sanford, and I hope this doesn't set a precident for things to come.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:47:20 AM EDT
The root problem for gun dealers doing bad shit is the market. The state has made it so complicated to purchase anything that dealers are backed into a corner with expenses and overhead that they have to cut corners. This is no excuse by any way shape or form - If you accept responsbility to run a dealership you have to do what your told.

On another note they were assholes and I am personally glad to see that overpriced jerkoff and his gang of misfits out of business. Maybe now Rob at Christian Soldier will get the due respect he deserves and maybe be able to offer better business hours as well.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 7:23:34 AM EDT
i agree Christian Soldier needs better hours, and i did not like walthers. valley gun was/is alright but they had some stuck up days, where they just looked down on everyone.

i still love the Gun Rack, bought my first thru forth gun there
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 12:57:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 1:00:01 PM EDT by rmz]
The Sunpapers has a February 25 article about the closing of Valley Gun Shop. (Go to Sunpapers webesite and search "Valley Gun".) From reading the article, it sounds like Mr. Abrams has been negligent.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 5:27:15 PM EDT
forwarded....

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.guns25feb25,0,3075526.story?coll=bal-local-headlines
From the Baltimore Sun

Gun shop loses its license

ATF notes repeated failure to account for all firearms

By Matthew Dolan
sun reporter

February 25, 2006


Federal agents revoked the firearms license yesterday of a prominent Baltimore County gun shop owned by a National Rifle Association board member, pointing to his repeated failure to account for hundreds of guns listed in his inventory since 1997.


"We don't want firearms getting into the hands of criminals," said David McCain, assistant special agent in charge of the Baltimore field office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. "If we come in and find they're not complying with the regulations, we have to enforce the law."


The license seizure came one day after a federal judge dismissed a civil lawsuit filed by Valley Gun of Parkville. Owner Sanford Abrams sued to stop the federal government from taking his license to sell firearms at the store, which has been in operation since 1954.


Abrams said had not heard about the court order or the ATF's decision to take his license when reached yesterday afternoon.


"You're not allowed to make a mistake. That's essentially what they're saying," Abrams said. "I have had the entire federal government to battle. I'm sure we'll appeal."


ATF agents said they could not wait any longer.


"We don't know how long this next appeals process is going to take," ATF spokeswoman Kelly Long said, adding that agents visited Valley Gun yesterday afternoon to pull the license. "And based on his history, we feel we shouldn't have to wait any longer to stop him from selling firearms. By law, we could have revoked [his license] months ago."


Long said agents have pulled licenses from five gun dealers in Maryland since 2005. Two other dealers have been targeted for license revocation, she said.


ATF officials said they did not anticipate removing any firearms from Valley Gun.


The Parkville store was one of 41 licensed firearm dealers -- out of 80,000 nationwide -- ordered by the ATF to provide detailed reports on all gun purchases and sales for the previous three years, and to continue providing such reports monthly. The idea, bureau officials said, was to prod "uncooperative" gun shops into compliance. Abrams saw it as an improper power play and sued the bureau.


The investigation that led to the license revocation started nearly nine years ago when, the ATF said, it found problems in Abrams' bookkeeping. In July 1997, agents compared the number of firearms listed in the store's books with the number of firearms on the premises.


The store came up 45 weapons short, according to agents.


After more missing weapons were identified after a 1999 inspection, the bureau held a "warning conference" with Abrams, who promised to improve record-keeping.


Agents returned in 2001 and noted 133 missing weapons. They held another "warning conference." Abrams again pledged to make progress.


Finally, in May 2003, an audit of Abrams' books found 472 weapons unaccounted for. The ATF issued a notice of license revocation in May 2004. In October, an administrative hearing officer ruled that Abrams' violations were "willful."


A final notice to take the license was officially issued in February last year but was stayed pending the court case.


Abrams acknowledged in court papers that his 2,000-square-foot store on Harford Road might have had problems in the past. His six employees have had to fill out as many as nine forms for a single customer who wants to buy more than one handgun at a time, Abrams said yesterday. His store sells about 3,000 firearms a year.


"Human error" was the way he described most of his store's mistakes. "I'm not doing something illegal," Abrams said in an interview yesterday.


But on Thursday, U.S. District Judge William M. Nickerson ruled that while Abrams "may challenge the numerousness or seriousness of its violations of federal firearms law, [he] makes no credible argument that there were no violations."


"The undisputed fact is that because of [Valley Gun's] lapses, scores of firearms are unaccounted for, and therefore, untraceable," the judge ruled.


Abrams is vice president of the Maryland Licensed Firearms Dealers Association and a board member of the National Rifle Association, a leading guns-rights lobbying group. He was elected last year to another three-year term.


matthew.dolan@baltsun.com
Copyright © 2006, The Baltimore Sun
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 5:38:13 PM EDT
Makes me wonder how many of us who bought rifles and hand guns off them are going to get a call or knock on the door.

I picked up a cx4strom off them over a year ago. Filled out the 4473 and watch them call it in.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 8:30:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 8:32:36 PM EDT by Landwarrior]
"Long said agents have pulled licenses from five gun dealers in Maryland since 2005. Two other dealers have been targeted for license revocation, she said."

I know that Bel Air Gun and Pawn was invistigated by the ATF last year, and they found various violations. I spoke with the owner on Saturday (while picking up my SEAK-III AK) and he is very worried that his FFL could be pulled for these violations. He has hired an attorney, and plans to go to court to fight the violations. He does not know if the AFT has targeted him for license revocation, but I wonder based on the above statement if Bel Air Gun and Pawn is one of the two dealers targeted by the ATF for license revocation.

On a better note... it looks like the Gunpowder Indoor Pistol Range will be opening back up this summer. Hopefully they will able to transfers.

Landwarrior...
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 12:53:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Landwarrior:
"Long said agents have pulled licenses from five gun dealers in Maryland since 2005. Two other dealers have been targeted for license revocation, she said."

I know that Bel Air Gun and Pawn was invistigated by the ATF last year, and they found various violations. I spoke with the owner on Saturday (while picking up my SEAK-III AK) and he is very worried that his FFL could be pulled for these violations. He has hired an attorney, and plans to go to court to fight the violations. He does not know if the AFT has targeted him for license revocation, but I wonder based on the above statement if Bel Air Gun and Pawn is one of the two dealers targeted by the ATF for license revocation.

On a better note... it looks like the Gunpowder Indoor Pistol Range will be opening back up this summer. Hopefully they will able to transfers.

Landwarrior...



care to share what they chargerd you for reciept and transfer?
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 3:11:07 PM EDT
belair gun is a funny family, 4 brothers 3 were are ffl holders, the forth has the pit beef stand next door

one retired, the other 2 moved in to the "old"store. heres the funny part the brother who retired never had a single gun or paper work show up missing. i know most of the prtty well, i wired the new building where he was selling the gun safes.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:13:05 PM EDT
Well, I must admit, I have bought many guns from them over the years until they went into the stuck up period. I swore them off and never purchased from the again. As much as I hate to see any shop get closed down, I won't cry over this one.

What's next, us C&R holders? Maybe I should not have renewed it this time around.....
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:17:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Landwarrior:


On a better note... it looks like the Gunpowder Indoor Pistol Range will be opening back up this summer. Hopefully they will able to transfers.





Really? I would be soooo happy if they did.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:30:29 AM EDT
I don't feel sorry for Valley Gun. The most important thing any FFL does is keep perfect records, there is no excuse for that crap, it's just years of poor record keeping that finally caught up to them. That is just too many unaccounted for guns in this day and age. He should be glad that all the ATF is doing is revoking his FFL license.
Top Top