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Posted: 3/29/2011 5:14:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2011 5:16:07 PM EDT by Mal_means_bad]
Anybody have recommendations for firearms training courses this year in Indiana? I don't want to make too long trip of it, Kentucky would probably be OK too. I need self defense pistol first, but I'd also like to hear about carbine and shotgun. I'm especially interested if there's a second advanced course from the same trainers focusing on home defense or including force on force with simunitions or at least airsoft or something.

I've done Appleseed before, and maybe again this year, but the slow (though accurate) fire from formal positions doesn't make it a great self defense course, unless the bad guys are 300 yards out. I've been shooting extensively on my own for years, so I would test out of a total noob level the-bullet-comes-out-of-this-end class, but neither should I leap ahead.

ETA- Hard Target concealed carry tactics AAR

Hard Target is a small shooting school in Evansville run by retired police office Guy Minnis. I attended their Tactical Concealed Carry class this Saturday at Red Brush Range in Newburgh, 5 hour course, cost $85.

Spent a few minutes on basic safety, then lined up on the range. Next was drawing from concealment, the first couple times with unloaded weapons to make sure nobody was doing anything nuts. After that it was all live ammo.

All stages included drawing as rapidly as possible and reholstering loaded weapons. Fired something like 200rds. Stages were:
*10 yards stationary at single targets, typically two shots COM and one in the face (Minnis would call for left eye, right eye, or nose specifically- and he believes in killing the assailant as quickly as possible, "ending the threat" is lawyer talk, thank you very much) with emphasis on stance, grip, and presentation (rotating your wrist as you draw to have the gun instantly capable of firing, keeping it close in to your chest and leveled at the attacker as you raise it to eye level)
*10 yards with a sidestep to spoil the attacker's aim
*10 yards with a sidestep and obseving your surroundings after the attacker is down
*7 yards with left hand 90 degree turns to engage, right hand 90 degree turns to engage, and 180's
*7 yards firing on two attackers
*10 yards firing on the advance
*10 yards firing on the retreat
*3 yards firing from the sternum
*3 yards firing from the sternum and on the retreat
*3 yards firing from a sitting position

Minnis is of the good ole' boy variety, you'll get along with him. He knew some of the shooters personally and mocked them gleefully, everybody else got respectful, helpful instruction. There were two assistant instructors, young guys around 20 or so, also helpful. The instructor on my side helped me correct a sweeping draw style, a bad reholstering habit, and helped me improve on the 3 yard sternum shooting.

There were 14 shooters, 4 were women. Several pocket holsters, three swept back overshirt concealers (my style), one CCW purse, and the rest OWB with untucked shirts. Couple older folks, couple middle aged, about half were college aged, and I gather several of those were Criminal Justice majors. I saw at least four Glocks, three or four 380's, one Airweight, one M&P9, a Taurus 357, and I brought my XD9 Service. The guy with a new Sig P238 was constantly down or clearing malfs, and a gal with a ported Glock kept losing poorly seated mags. Minnis stayed behind ten or fifteen minutes trying to fix the guy's Sig, which was nice of him.

Pro- Solid basics covered, knowledgeable and personable instructors, reasonable goals for the class, beautiful day, cheap, quick, close to home, instructors corrected several of my bad habits, gave me several new scenarios to train with on my own, and my confidence is much higher

Cons- The bay we were in was too small for the class size, and we shot less than we might have since we had to swap between shooters and observers for the last ½ of the class. One of the taller gentlemen was shooting down into a rain puddle, with the breeze we got a little artificial rain. There was no work done on mag changes, they were actually sort of discouraged. There were a couple of full auto shooters in a nearby bay, that interrupted communication a little now and then.

Upshot- A week at Gunsite it ain't, but it's worth it if you haven't had similar training recently, and I plan to take additional courses, starting with point shooting in mid May.

I shot quite well and came away happy and educated (black marked hits are the instructor's- he wasn't really aiming, just demonstrating that guns work in weird firing positions, my lower left flyers are from the sternum shooting on the retreat, not something I've tried before):



Yes, that's OJ. All of the targets were OJ, Minnis does not care for OJ.
Link Posted: 3/29/2011 5:55:38 PM EDT
What area do you live in?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/29/2011 5:57:43 PM EDT
Not a whole lot of my way this year. Magpul had a Dynamic Carbine class in Napanee last year.

I have high hopes they will bring their shotgun or pistol course somewhat close next year.

If you have the basics down pretty well, it might do you some good to get into some IDPA/IPSC/USPSA competitions. It will force you to focus on what you are doing, and others there will be able to give you pointers. From either your own observations or the observations of others you will learn things, and you will get better. You may not learn as much right away as an instructional course, but I guarantee it will make you a better shooter.
Link Posted: 3/29/2011 6:29:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sixnine:
What area do you live in?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Southwestern Indiana, near Vincennes. I could live with an overnight trip, but something no more than, say, an hour north of Indy would be best for me.
Link Posted: 3/29/2011 6:30:46 PM EDT
Going to competitions helps, but it's like taking a test without studying. HD380 and I shoot at the same pistol league which is IDPA styled. It's informal and there's plenty of people with good advice. Jeremy who runs has been to many schools, and has been considering doing classes on defensive pistol, shotgun, and rifle. Hanging around him has taught me a lot and improved my shooting. If you're anywhere near Michigan City, you could give that a try. If Jeremy decides to start classes I'll give you a heads up.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/29/2011 6:35:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By haydendavid380:
If you have the basics down pretty well, it might do you some good to get into some IDPA/IPSC/USPSA competitions. It will force you to focus on what you are doing, and others there will be able to give you pointers. From either your own observations or the observations of others you will learn things, and you will get better. You may not learn as much right away as an instructional course, but I guarantee it will make you a better shooter.


I'm near Terre Haute, anybody been to the steel shoots at Riley Conservation Club?
Link Posted: 3/29/2011 6:58:46 PM EDT
Terre Haute! Forget about us then! Check out Get Off the X (?) I believe they're based in Kentucky but do classes all the way up here. They do some pretty good classes according to that guy Jeremy I mentioned.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/29/2011 8:14:48 PM EDT
Red Brush rifle range (Evansville area) has IDPA and other shoots nearly every weekend during the spring, summer, and fall. The down side is you have to be a member of the range.

Red Brush

You can also search for a lot of different NRA courses offered at http://www.nrainstructors.org/, but they are pretty basic.

In Evansville, there is also Hard Target firearms training. The owner is a retired Evansville police officer and is a very good instructor. Link

Link Posted: 3/30/2011 6:43:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LAF1269:

In Evansville, there is also Hard Target firearms training. The owner is a retired Evansville police officer and is a very good instructor. Link



+1 on Guy Minnis at Hard Target Firearms Training. He is very knowledgeable and his courses are priced very well. You definitely get your money's worth from him.
Link Posted: 3/30/2011 6:49:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2011 8:43:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By haydendavid380:
Not a whole lot of my way this year. Magpul had a Dynamic Carbine class in Napanee last year.

I have high hopes they will bring their shotgun or pistol course somewhat close next year.

If you have the basics down pretty well, it might do you some good to get into some IDPA/IPSC/USPSA competitions. It will force you to focus on what you are doing, and others there will be able to give you pointers. From either your own observations or the observations of others you will learn things, and you will get better. You may not learn as much right away as an instructional course, but I guarantee it will make you a better shooter.

Actually, they had a class in Napanee last year that they cancelled.
Link Posted: 3/30/2011 10:38:20 AM EDT
Look at Defense Training International on the web. Very good learning experience + fun. Training in Rochester, IN is coming up in May.


As a side note, I'd be interested in a 1911 Operator's course that included tactical training & instruction how to dismantle my Kimbers-and put them back together.
Link Posted: 3/30/2011 4:22:16 PM EDT
Mal_means_bad,

Do you know about INGO? They have a section that has training opportunities throughtout IN.

Linky: Training in IN






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Link Posted: 4/4/2011 1:28:17 PM EDT
Living Social $50 basic pistol course.

Does anyone know anything about this place?

Tactical Firearms Training

The Boone county sheriff has Gunsite classes in april and Oct.

http://www.boonecountyindianasheriff.com/c/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=186:gunsite-pistol-course-at-boone-co-sheriffs-office-in-2011&catid=42:training-announcements&Itemid=85

Massad Ayoob has a MAG-40 class about an hour north of Indy in June.
Link Posted: 4/6/2011 5:20:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hilsy:
Originally Posted By LAF1269:

In Evansville, there is also Hard Target firearms training. The owner is a retired Evansville police officer and is a very good instructor. Link



+1 on Guy Minnis at Hard Target Firearms Training. He is very knowledgeable and his courses are priced very well. You definitely get your money's worth from him.

+2 for Hard Target. I've taken a Tactical Pistol, & Basic AR15 class from Guy. Planning on attending his Tactical Shotgun, and a few others this year if my schedule permits.
Link Posted: 4/8/2011 6:51:53 PM EDT
Hard Target is GTG. I've taken a bunch of different classes over the past few years. Always a good time, and good training.
Link Posted: 4/9/2011 6:57:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LAF1269:
In Evansville, there is also Hard Target firearms training. The owner is a retired Evansville police officer and is a very good instructor. Link



I think I'm going with this, course descrptions sound like just what I had in mind.
Link Posted: 4/10/2011 4:17:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
Originally Posted By LAF1269:
In Evansville, there is also Hard Target firearms training. The owner is a retired Evansville police officer and is a very good instructor. Link



I think I'm going with this, course descrptions sound like just what I had in mind.

Good choice, and have fun. Guy is great to learn from.

If you end up doing the Tactical Shotgun class I might be there as well.

Link Posted: 4/12/2011 8:45:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dog1:
Deepwater Defense

I took a class there last year. I learned alot and had a excellent time.

Great staff. No egos, no bullshit.

Took their Tactical Rifle 1 class this weekend. Same experience at Dog1. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 5:18:23 PM EDT
Hard Target AAR in OP
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