Quoted:
My buddy carries a 26 in the small of his back and the other day he was at hardware store and when leaving without purchasing anything a employee yells after him as he goes to leave.
"Sir what do you have in the back of your shirt"
My friend just says "A Gun"
He just walks out and no one said or did anything.

But it brings up a good point what is the right or correct thing to say if someone asks you that when in a store. Do you just say something, quietly ask them to the side and simply show them and your permit.

What you guys think or what would you say or do??

I turn 21 in January and will be going the day im 21 to get my permit.

Quoted:
Stop and calmly explain what I had.

Had almost the same thing happen at the local Wally World.

The door nazi saw the lump and asked me to lift my shirt.

I refused, told her to call her manager.

I tod the manager what it was, he smiled and apologized and told me to have a nice day.

I make it a point to say hi to that old door bat whenever I see her working.  

Quoted:
Nobody asks me questions like this, because I do a better job of concealing it than your friend obviously does.

Seriously, he needs to pay more attention to concealment.

That said, if I WAS asked this, I suppose I'd say "oh, that's my lawfully carried sidearm. I can show you my I.D. and permit if you'd like," just so they'd know I'm one of the good guys.  No problem with that.

Wouldn't just ignore 'em, I don't think...............they have to watch out for shoplifters, ya know. Not gonna have some store idiot chasing me outta the store because he thinks I've got merchandise under the shirt.  I'm not about causing a scene.

But yeah, bottom line, he should conceal better.  This kinda thing does NOT need to happen.

Quoted:


Retail stores aren't allowed to detain you or lay their hands on you, as far as I know.  All they can do is tail and report, if they suspect you of shoplifting.  They have to call the cops –– the only party I would admit to carrying a concealed gun as well as show my permit.

Quoted:


Retail stores aren't allowed to detain you or lay their hands on you, as far as I know.  All they can do is tail and report, if they suspect you of shoplifting.  They have to call the cops –– the only party I would admit to carrying a concealed gun as well as show my permit.

Quoted:
I dont have to worry about this problem B/C I wear a wool jacket that conceals my gun
and if I want to wear a sweatshirt I open carry.

Quoted:I can detain you.... physically if necessary. I can also handcuff you if the situation calls for that. Very rarely do we ever need to call the police for a simple shoplift. We detain the person, recover the merchandise, complete the paperwork and turn the paperwork over to the police department if we are filing charges. The only time I call the police is if it is a felony dollar amount, the subject fights or runs, or if the subject doesn't have ID.

Quoted:


Is this legally anywhere on store property, inside the building only, or are you given "posse priviledges" where you can stalk me around town, park so that you block me into my driveway, and call the police?

I know some stores, like Fred Meyers, don't want shoplifter arrests being made in the parking lot, so if a shoplifter makes it that far, they just take your pic, pic of your lic. plates, and turn it over to the police.

Quoted:


Is this legally anywhere on store property, inside the building only, or are you given "posse priviledges" where you can stalk me around town, park so that you block me into my driveway, and call the police?

I know some stores, like Fred Meyers, don't want shoplifter arrests being made in the parking lot, so if a shoplifter makes it that far, they just take your pic, pic of your lic. plates, and turn it over to the police.

Quoted:It all depends on what retailer we are talking about. Everyone has different rules on what can and can't be done.

Quoted:



I BELIEVE! (key words :P)

As long as you are on THEIR property they can detain you. HOWEVER once you make it to public property or someone elses private property they can't touch you. This is why Fred Meyers doesn't like to follow people into parking lots because they are usually located in Strip Malls where the Parking lots are public property and the Security Guards have no authority out there. Essentially once you make it out of property of the people you shafted they can't touch you. But after that it becomes a cop problem and it's worst to deal with cops then it is to deal with FM or WallyWorld security.

However I'll prolly be corrected by Phil who will then post fivehundred gagillion RCWs stating that they can face rape you and stick their batton up your butt.

Quoted:
You should tell him to quit carrying in in the small of his back.  If he ever gets knocked on his ass it could cause serious problems.  As for an answer to the nosy ass clerk, I'd probably tell him it's a pistol as well (in the case he thought your buddy was shoplifting.)  Also, your buddy should wear bigger shirts.

Quoted:
Stop and calmly explain what I had.

Had almost the same thing happen at the local Wally World.

The door nazi saw the lump and asked me to lift my shirt.

I refused, told her to call her manager.

I tod the manager what it was, he smiled and apologized and told me to have a nice day.

I make it a point to say hi to that old door bat whenever I see her working.  

Quoted:




Lemme rephrase the question, it's kinda a two parter.

1. What is the legal limits of an employees ability to use force to restrain a suspected shoplifter in washington? WHere is the line drawn? Indoor, company property, anywhere they freakin want, as long as they say they are chasing a suspect, etc.

2. What is Walmarts policy (general guideline) on where they stop chasing suspected shoplifters?

Quoted:



1. To my knowledge, there is no limit that the state gives to where we can use force. Back in the day we could chase someone until we caught them, whether on property or not. Problems arose when shoplifters, employees, customers were getting hurt trying to stop a subject for stealing a $1 tube of lipstick. Big time lawsuits tend to change policies pretty quick.

I am talking country and retailer wide in the above situation, nothing that happened locally.

2. I can't get into too many specifics, as I don't know what is public info. But I will say that we no longer chase off property, and we have to terminate the pursuit if we believe anyone, whether it is us, lifter, or by-stander is going to be injured.

RCW 9A.16.020
Use of force — When lawful.


The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases:

    (1) Whenever necessarily used by a public officer in the performance of a legal duty, or a person assisting the officer and acting under the officer's direction;

    (2) Whenever necessarily used by a person arresting one who has committed a felony and delivering him or her to a public officer competent to receive him or her into custody;

    (3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person, or a malicious trespass, or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in his or her possession, in case the force is not more than is necessary;

    (4) Whenever reasonably used by a person to detain someone who enters or remains unlawfully in a building or on real property lawfully in the possession of such person, so long as such detention is reasonable in duration and manner to investigate the reason for the detained person's presence on the premises, and so long as the premises in question did not reasonably appear to be intended to be open to members of the public;

    (5) Whenever used by a carrier of passengers or the carrier's authorized agent or servant, or other person assisting them at their request in expelling from a carriage, railway car, vessel, or other vehicle, a passenger who refuses to obey a lawful and reasonable regulation prescribed for the conduct of passengers, if such vehicle has first been stopped and the force used is not more than is necessary to expel the offender with reasonable regard to the offender's personal safety;

    (6) Whenever used by any person to prevent a mentally ill, mentally incompetent, or mentally disabled person from committing an act dangerous to any person, or in enforcing necessary restraint for the protection or restoration to health of the person, during such period only as is necessary to obtain legal authority for the restraint or custody of the person.

RCW 9A.16.080
Action for being detained on mercantile establishment premises for investigation — "Reasonable grounds" as defense.


In any criminal action brought by reason of any person having been detained on or in the immediate vicinity of the premises of a mercantile establishment for the purpose of investigation or questioning as to the ownership of any merchandise, it shall be a defense of such action that the person was detained in a reasonable manner and for not more than a reasonable time to permit such investigation or questioning by a peace officer, by the owner of the mercantile establishment, or by the owner's authorized employee or agent, and that such peace officer, owner, employee, or agent had reasonable grounds to believe that the person so detained was committing or attempting to commit theft or shoplifting on such premises of such merchandise. As used in this section, "reasonable grounds" shall include, but not be limited to, knowledge that a person has concealed possession of unpurchased merchandise of a mercantile establishment, and a "reasonable time" shall mean the time necessary to permit the person detained to make a statement or to refuse to make a statement, and the time necessary to examine employees and records of the mercantile establishment relative to the ownership of the merchandise.