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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/11/2010 10:46:59 AM EDT
TItle says it all.

Cased, UnCased, Loaded, Unloaded, etc etc
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 11:12:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
TItle says it all.

Cased, UnCased, Loaded, Unloaded, etc etc


Ch. 790

Very bottom of the page.

(5)POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.—Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 11:54:43 AM EDT
Doesnt say anything about being loaded or unloaded. SOoooooooooooo.

That means I can keep a loaded rifle in my truck as long as I cant get it without having to open and/or unlock something. Correct?
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:29:46 PM EDT
My attorney tells me that in Florida, you need to be mindful of handguns, but not so much for long guns. The other day I was driving around town with an AR180B along with 6 30 round magazines, and a Remington 870 and a large baggy full of buckshot.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:37:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
Doesnt say anything about being loaded or unloaded. SOoooooooooooo.

That means I can keep a loaded rifle in my truck as long as I cant get it without having to open and/or unlock something. Correct?


You have a permit don't you? It shouldn't matter then.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:43:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
Doesnt say anything about being loaded or unloaded. SOoooooooooooo.

That means I can keep a loaded rifle in my truck as long as I cant get it without having to open and/or unlock something. Correct?


(5)POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.—Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 2:37:29 PM EDT
They key words are " securely encased " . The FL statutes describe that pretty clearly , And a CWL does not apply to long guns . Im curious to see the differing opinions
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 3:17:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By speedlinehobbies:
They key words are " securely encased " . The FL statutes describe that pretty clearly , And a CWL does not apply to long guns . Im curious to see the differing opinions


Where is that stated in FL law?
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 5:23:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By speedlinehobbies:
They key words are " securely encased " . The FL statutes describe that pretty clearly , And a CWL does not apply to long guns . Im curious to see the differing opinions


Your only quoting part of it...

......or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use


Which means I could have it flopping around in the truck or locked to a roll bar but not incased cuz its not readily available.

Link Posted: 9/11/2010 6:05:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
Originally Posted By speedlinehobbies:
They key words are " securely encased " . The FL statutes describe that pretty clearly , And a CWL does not apply to long guns . Im curious to see the differing opinions


Your only quoting part of it...

......or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use


Which means I could have it flopping around in the truck or locked to a roll bar but not incased cuz its not readily available.


I think that is the way it SHOULD be, as the law reads, but here is a counterpoint, according to stuff I read in Gutmacher's book.

According to what I read in there, 'any weapon other than a handgun' still has to be somehow hindered from being immediately brought to bear. A folded AK, short barreled rifle, or SBS on the passenger seat might get you in trouble. They all should be considered 'any other weapon' and therefore be allowed 'anywhere within a conveyance', but it seems that case law has been more rigid than the statute reads.
(Oddly enough, a machine gun fits this category too, since a machine gun falls under the 'any other weapon' definition. You'd think they would care more about the whereabouts of a machine gun, than your Kentucky Long Rifle, but I guess not.. )

It could be reasonably construed that due to the small size of those types of firearm I listed, you could immediately use it while within the conveyance. In Boswink V. State, the courts only upheld that a rifle or shotgun was 'not available for immediate use' because it was a small pickup cab, and the rifle was in the back window/behind the seat area. It was found that in order for Boswink to use the rifle, he would have had to exit the cab to retrieve the gun.

I carry my AR's in the back area of my cab, because I think it can be considered pretty difficult to access that area while sitting in the dirver's seat. I don't case them, but they aren't flopping around either. I have done similarly with my little hatchback car, carried the AR's on the back seat, uncased. I actually was pulled over doing so one time (speeding to get to the range...DOH!) The deputy noticed the rifles, but didn't say a word about them, gave me my ticket and said "Have a nice day". YMMV
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 3:15:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By apricotshot:
Originally Posted By speedlinehobbies:
They key words are " securely encased " . The FL statutes describe that pretty clearly , And a CWL does not apply to long guns . Im curious to see the differing opinions


Where is that stated in FL law?


F.S. 790.06:

For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(9).
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 6:37:47 AM EDT
You may carry a long gun in your vehicle pretty much any way you want. Loaded, unloaded, gun rack in the window, on the seat, duct taped to the headliner, etc... etc... etc...

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 7:36:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Speargun_:
You may carry a long gun in your vehicle pretty much any way you want. Loaded, unloaded, gun rack in the window, on the seat, duct taped to the headliner, etc... etc... etc...



So I guess it would be safe to say I could carry an 870 loaded in a locking police rack like this;

View from the back




View from drivers door





Link Posted: 9/12/2010 8:16:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 8:17:51 AM EDT by EarlBypass]
... if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.


Is inside the vehicle encased?

Sorry, not buying the above pic.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 9:08:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EarlBypass:
... if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.


Is inside the vehicle encased?

Sorry, not buying the above pic.


Are you guys evening reading the rest of that law? ".......OR otherwise not readily accessible"

I take that to mean if I have to get a key and unlock it than its not readily accessible.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 12:22:35 PM EDT
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=10&t=301146


How can I carry my rifle in my car? Does securely encased only apply to handguns?

FL LAW 790.25 states:

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.––Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.


The above says that you can have a rifle in your car anywhere BUT, it does not give you permission to have it concealed in the automobile. 790.01 does not exclude a rifle so you can, and will get arrested if it is concealed and not securely encased. The law is not clear but case law is and supports the above. So to sum it up ... To be legal with a rifle in your car it must NOT be "concealed from ordinary sight" unless its concealed because it is "securely encased" like in a gun case. A rifle clearly visible in a rack or just laying visibly on the seat should be legal.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 12:51:55 PM EDT
it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.


Correct me if I am wrong but this says it IS lawful to carry a weapon concealed inside your vehicle as long as it is not on your person, nor otherwise readily accessible for immediate use, or if it is securely encased.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 1:48:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 2:22:08 PM EDT by TitleII]
OK, I thought I understood this statute, but now I'm confused.

For the sake of my question let us use a shotgun (a gun other than a handgun).

5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.––Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01...
Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a SHOTGUN legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use.

Does anywhere mean anywhere?

It appears that I can carry it anywhere and it is ok to conceal it, but MUST I conceal it. I drove around alot in a previous lifetime with a shotgun in the rack of a pickup truck. Is that no longer legal??

ETA: The more I read this thread the more confused I get. The securily encased part applies to shotguns if concealed. I thought that just applied to handguns and for shotguns anywhere meant anywhere. can someone point me to case law?
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 2:01:52 PM EDT
I take it to mean anywhere as long as it meets the 3 criteria:

1.not on your person

2.not otherwise readily accessible for immediate use

3.if it is securely encased

So it would come down to whether the gun in the rack is considered readily accesible
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 2:12:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 2:21:22 PM EDT by TitleII]
see below
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 2:13:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TitleII:
Originally Posted By Van_Wilder:
I take it to mean anywhere as long as it meets the 3 criteria:

1.not on your person

2.not otherwise readily accessible for immediate use

3.if it is securely encased

So it would come down to whether the gun in the rack is considered readily accessible


I'm guessing that we all would agree that in the old fashioned pickup rack a shotgun would be readily accessible. So this would mean that it is illegal to carry a shotgun in the window rack of a pickup. Conceding that carrying a shotgun in a window rack being stupid of course, since people steal everything they see these days.


Link Posted: 9/12/2010 2:16:23 PM EDT
Guess I will just throw my AR15 Pistol with a 30 round mag on the seat beside me and throw a towel over it and show my CCW license if questions. Seems kind of silly doesn't it. Shotgun bad, 5.56 good.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 2:30:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 2:32:42 PM EDT by fuzzy03cls]
You guys do realize that the entire securely encased/readily accessible thing is only for those without a CWL?

If you have a CWL then any handgun, shotgun or long gun can be exactly as described in the previous post on the seat under a towel, shirt, back seat under a blanket...whatever.

May not be the smartest thing, but it's legal.

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 2:42:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 2:44:03 PM EDT by Van_Wilder]
Yes, I just figured it was implied since the "without a license" part was in my original quote of the statute.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 2:48:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 2:48:49 PM EDT by Miami02TJ]
Originally Posted By fuzzy03cls:
You guys do realize that the entire securely encased/readily accessible thing is only for those without a CWL?

If you have a CWL then any handgun, shotgun or long gun can be exactly as described in the previous post on the seat under a towel, shirt, back seat under a blanket...whatever.

May not be the smartest thing, but it's legal.




The FL concealed weapons license does not apply to longguns:

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.06.html

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 2:48:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 2:50:59 PM EDT by TitleII]
Originally Posted By fuzzy03cls:
You guys do realize that the entire securely encased/readily accessible thing is only for those without a CWL?

If you have a CWL then any handgun, shotgun or long gun can be exactly as described in the previous post on the seat under a towel, shirt, back seat under a blanket...whatever.

May not be the smartest thing, but it's legal.



Fussy,

As confused as I am, I don't think that is true...that is why i'm confused. 790.06 applies only to handguns. So, even with a CWL we have to default to 790.25. That's where it gets confusing. But like I said, I'm confused, so look at it again and let me know what you think.

The 2009 Florida Statutes

Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 790
WEAPONS AND FIREARMS View Entire Chapter

790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.––

(1) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is authorized to issue licenses to carry concealed weapons or concealed firearms to persons qualified as provided in this section. Each such license must bear a color photograph of the licensee. For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(9).




Link Posted: 9/12/2010 3:12:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 3:18:22 PM EDT by TitleII]
Wow, I just want to be a law abiding citizen. I don't really even care what the laws are, I just want them to make sense and not be unconstitutionally vague. The average Joe should be able to read a statute and understand what is legal and what is not.

Now for lawyers out there, I know that you can't think of every possibility when you write a statue, but you could at least cover the obvious.

Sometimes I think the lawyers do a pretty good job writing the statutes, but someone in a position of authority does not like the statute and then things get confusing. I think that is what happened to FS 790.25. I was alive and well when that statute was written and it made perfect sense at the time. Seems a lot of people can't read now. It helps to know the status of the law before 790.25 but all those kids out there, now trying their hardest to enforce the laws don't have the institutional memory.

The following meant something in 1982:

(4) CONSTRUCTION.––This act shall be liberally construed to carry out the declaration of policy herein and in favor of the constitutional right to keep and bear arms for lawful purposes. This act is supplemental and additional to existing rights to bear arms now guaranteed by law and decisions of the courts of Florida, and nothing herein shall impair or diminish any of such rights. This act shall supersede any law, ordinance, or regulation in conflict herewith.

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.––... This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 3:21:27 PM EDT
And now you know why I asked this question. What are the odds of LEO knowing these laws themselves? I agree, I want to abide by the law as well. Reason I asked this and not assume anything. Not worth the risks.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 3:39:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 3:54:54 PM EDT by TitleII]
I can tell you the legislative intent in 1982. Miami was a drug war approaching the level of violence we see in northern Mexico today. Tourists were being killed at rest areas. Heavily armed bank robbers were in shootouts with the FBI. The legislature authorized the individual citizen to carry a firearm in their cars for self defense. Handguns were somewhat restricted, but if you wanted to carry a shotgun or rifle you were free to do whatever you wanted. That's what was meant by 790.25 at the time. Some restriction on handguns, but carry your shotgun "anywhere" anyhow. To put things in focus, the legislature also banned rental car bumper stickers so that the BGs would not know if a car was driven by a tourist who probably didn't have a gun, or a resident who probably DID. The legislature paid for armed security at rest areas. It worked.

In 1987 the legislature passed 790.06, eliminating the patchwork of county by county CWL. Now citizens could carry outside of their cars. That worked even better.

I can't imagine what it would be like today if a large number of Floridians had not armed themselves.

So, I have lived in my man cave for a long time and am now surprised by the questions being asked today and hearing that LEOs and even the courts don't understand the history. What is that saying about "not studying history and having to repeat it."


Link Posted: 9/12/2010 6:17:38 PM EDT
Correct a CWP doesn't include long guns. However....
790.25
Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense
"legal firearm other than a handgun"
If your long gun is legal & not being used in a crime, it's legal.
So securely encased & not available for use doesn't apply to long guns.
Look up Mitchell V. State. They found a rifle on the back seat loaded did not furnish probable cause for an arrest.
Now there have not been any recent test cases of this. That's why I said it's likely not smart
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 7:00:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fuzzy03cls:
Correct a CWP doesn't include long guns. However....
790.25
Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense
"legal firearm other than a handgun"
If your long gun is legal & not being used in a crime, it's legal.
So securely encased & not available for use doesn't apply to long guns.
Look up Mitchell V. State. They found a rifle on the back seat loaded did not furnish probable cause for an arrest.
Now there have not been any recent test cases of this. That's why I said it's likely not smart


In that case the shotgun was not concealed. When I did the research for the FAQ there were several cases of long guns concealed, and even partially concealed, where there were convictions.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:40:43 AM EDT
Holy confusing.

So to clear it up, one can legally have a loaded long arm in plain view in their vehicle?
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 3:16:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Holy confusing.

So to clear it up, one can legally have a loaded long arm in plain view in their vehicle?



best advice anyone can give you here, is for you to CALL YOUR OWN ATTORNEY, and ask for a legal opinion. Beats the heck out of putting your butt on the line based on info you got from some internet forum, eh?
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 6:27:22 AM EDT
Amen to that!
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:31:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Miami02TJ:
Originally Posted By fuzzy03cls:
Correct a CWP doesn't include long guns. However....
790.25
Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense
"legal firearm other than a handgun"
If your long gun is legal & not being used in a crime, it's legal.
So securely encased & not available for use doesn't apply to long guns.
Look up Mitchell V. State. They found a rifle on the back seat loaded did not furnish probable cause for an arrest.
Now there have not been any recent test cases of this. That's why I said it's likely not smart


In that case the shotgun was not concealed. When I did the research for the FAQ there were several cases of long guns concealed, and even partially concealed, where there were convictions.


So, if my long guns are piled so high in the back seat of my truck that the top ones partially conceal the bottom ones, am I OK, or in violation?

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 2:55:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 2:56:40 PM EDT by TitleII]
Originally Posted By pegleggreg:
Originally Posted By Miami02TJ:
Originally Posted By fuzzy03cls:
Correct a CWP doesn't include long guns. However....
790.25
Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense
"legal firearm other than a handgun"
If your long gun is legal & not being used in a crime, it's legal.
So securely encased & not available for use doesn't apply to long guns.
Look up Mitchell V. State. They found a rifle on the back seat loaded did not furnish probable cause for an arrest.
Now there have not been any recent test cases of this. That's why I said it's likely not smart



In that case the shotgun was not concealed. When I did the research for the FAQ there were several cases of long guns concealed, and even partially concealed, where there were convictions.


So, if my long guns are piled so high in the back seat of my truck that the top ones partially conceal the bottom ones, am I OK, or in violation?




Now that's funny If it's a violation I have been in violation! I would guess that the ones on the bottom are not readily accessible for immediate use.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:02:42 PM EDT
Thought this might help *some* of the confusion:

(16)

“Readily accessible for immediate use” means that a firearm or other weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be retrieved and used as easily and quickly as if carried on the person.
(17)

“Securely encased” means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.
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