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Posted: 1/5/2014 1:47:50 PM EDT
I'm sure this has been posted before, but I couldn't find anything in a search. What do I need to do to cover my bases for something that would require a PTP/PTC at the store?
Link Posted: 1/5/2014 3:07:44 PM EDT
Nothing is required, but i have a receipt pad where I write down the make, model, and serial number of the firearm and both the buyer's signature and my own. The buyer is free to burn their copy of the receipt if they want. I keep mine in a safe place, just in case.
Link Posted: 1/5/2014 5:12:44 PM EDT
It is the responsibility of the SELLER to make sure they are not selling to someone who is ineligible to own/possess the firearm.

You cannot sell a handgun to anyone under 21....

Just remember, if you (as a private citizen) sell to a criminal, your life will be a living hell. No amount of "sorry judge, I didn't know" will make your life any easier.

This is where I wish we had "voluntary" background checks, so I could meet the buyer at an FFL's place and have them run the check. But that is not the world we live in.
Link Posted: 1/5/2014 7:23:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2014 7:24:17 PM EDT by Hollywood304]
If you are concerned about something coming back on you and don't know the person well, just find a local dealer who will do a transfer for you. You could also utilize the BCA public criminal history check and the state public court access site.  Although, they won't be as thorough as a NICS check.

BCA Public Criminal History

Minnesota Court Public Access
Link Posted: 1/5/2014 8:04:59 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By norseman1:
It is the responsibility of the SELLER to make sure they are not selling to someone who is ineligible to own/possess the firearm.

You cannot sell a handgun to anyone under 21....
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Originally Posted By norseman1:
It is the responsibility of the SELLER to make sure they are not selling to someone who is ineligible to own/possess the firearm.

You cannot sell a handgun to anyone under 21....


Minnesota law only makes it a violation if they are under the age of 18.

624.7132

(2) transfers a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon to a person under the age of 18 who has made a false statement in order to become a transferee, if the transferor knows or has reason to know the transferee has made the false statement.


Here is some more info from that statute of what the law requires.

Subd. 14.Transfer to unknown party. (a) No person shall transfer a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon to another who is not personally known to the transferor unless the proposed transferee presents evidence of identity to the transferor.
(b) No person who is not personally known to the transferor shall become a transferee of a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon unless the person presents evidence of identity to the transferor.
(c) The evidence of identity shall contain the name, residence address, date of birth, and photograph of the proposed transferee; must be made or issued by or under the authority of the United States government, a state, a political subdivision of a state, a foreign government, a political subdivision of a foreign government, an international governmental or an international quasi-governmental organization; and must be of a type commonly accepted for the purpose of identification of individuals.
(d) A person who becomes a transferee of a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon in violation of this subdivision is guilty of a misdemeanor.
Link Posted: 1/6/2014 2:48:21 AM EDT
Just do what the rest of us do and ask to see a valid DL and valid PTP/PTC.



Link Posted: 1/6/2014 7:02:45 AM EDT
Personally, if I do not know the person, I only sell to CCW holders
Link Posted: 1/6/2014 8:43:11 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By mcnielsen:


Personally, if I do not know the person, I only sell to CCW holders
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Same here.

 
Link Posted: 1/6/2014 2:39:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2014 2:40:25 PM EDT by builttoughf250]
Last monday I had a FED try to buy my Saiga 12 gauge. I got red flags during the phone call- hes a Tennessee resident but his wife is an MN resident, he's got $800 cash on hand conveniently, he asked if it would be good for self defense... well, its a 12 gauge AK47, pretty sure that would work great to repel a home invasion. When I told him I wasnt comfortable selling to a non- MN resident he said "dont worry, Im a Federal Agent, I know all the rules!" sure you do, as you click the handcuffs on me. he then asked if his wife could buy it for him, I said no, thats a straw sale, end of deal.

The next day, an 18 year old tried buying my Glock. I flat out said no.

Both of the above "buyers" were from Armslist

Eventually I found a buyer for the Saiga 12, and did a transfer at an FFL to make sure it was 100% cool.

So I had one, maybe two possible chances to go to FPMITAP ( Federal Pound Me In The Ass Prison ) in one week.

So, you can do what I normally do- See their MINNESOTA drivers license and Permit to Purchase of Permit to Carry, do a bill of sale with the model / serial # and signature with the date of sale on it.

Or, go a step further to cover your ass, and meet at a gun shop / FFL dealer who will do the form 4473 / transfer paperwork for you.

Link Posted: 1/6/2014 4:41:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By live-free-or-die:
Just do what the rest of us do and ask to see a valid DL and valid PTP/PTC.
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+1 but to add, Make a copy for your records in the event you get a knock on the door from LLE asking about the fire arm. All firearms I sell I require it to cover my ass.
Link Posted: 1/6/2014 4:44:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2014 4:46:10 PM EDT by mnvwguy02]
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Originally Posted By builttoughf250:
Last monday I had a FED try to buy my Saiga 12 gauge. I got red flags during the phone call- hes a Tennessee resident but his wife is an MN resident, he's got $800 cash on hand conveniently, he asked if it would be good for self defense... well, its a 12 gauge AK47, pretty sure that would work great to repel a home invasion. When I told him I wasnt comfortable selling to a non- MN resident he said "dont worry, Im a Federal Agent, I know all the rules!" sure you do, as you click the handcuffs on me. he then asked if his wife could buy it for him, I said no, thats a straw sale, end of deal.

The next day, an 18 year old tried buying my Glock. I flat out said no.

Both of the above "buyers" were from Armslist

Eventually I found a buyer for the Saiga 12, and did a transfer at an FFL to make sure it was 100% cool.

So I had one, maybe two possible chances to go to FPMITAP ( Federal Pound Me In The Ass Prison ) in one week.

So, you can do what I normally do- See their MINNESOTA drivers license and Permit to Purchase of Permit to Carry, do a bill of sale with the model / serial # and signature with the date of sale on it.

Or, go a step further to cover your ass, and meet at a gun shop / FFL dealer who will do the form 4473 / transfer paperwork for you.

View Quote


Wow! I'm convinced selling/trading firearms FTF is under some severe federal investigation/trolling under our current administration.
Link Posted: 1/6/2014 6:27:59 PM EDT
I forgot to add that the guy who flat out said he was a Federal Agent, also said "if you dont feel comfortable with the deal after a week or two, just give me the money back and ill give you the gun back"  um.... no, I said "theres no giving it back once the legal wheels are turning "

he also said he had to take his German Shepard to the get at 4:30- what a convenient reason for having a police dog with you !
Link Posted: 1/7/2014 7:40:34 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By builttoughf250:
I forgot to add that the guy who flat out said he was a Federal Agent, also said "if you dont feel comfortable with the deal after a week or two, just give me the money back and ill give you the gun back"  um.... no, I said "theres no giving it back once the legal wheels are turning "

he also said he had to take his German Shepard to the get at 4:30- what a convenient reason for having a police dog with you !
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Lucky you didn't have to go all Sons of Anarchy on him!!!
Link Posted: 1/7/2014 3:21:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2014 3:55:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2014 5:59:43 AM EDT by gunner539]
you should've said yeah sounds great and then tell
Him to pound sand and call him a dumbfuck
when you met up.then you couldve gone all sons
Of anarchy on his ass.
If you see a valid state ID and PTP or PTC and
Record their info you are good to go
Link Posted: 1/7/2014 6:32:29 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By dpmmn:




What happens when they have a Minnesota Permit to Carry a Pistol and not a CCW?

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Originally Posted By dpmmn:



Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:


Originally Posted By mcnielsen:

Personally, if I do not know the person, I only sell to CCW holders
Same here.  

What happens when they have a Minnesota Permit to Carry a Pistol and not a CCW?




Do you tell them to pound sand?

 



Technicality of terms.

 
Link Posted: 1/7/2014 7:33:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2014 7:08:05 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Well there is a big difference and since we have a "Permit to Carry a Pistol" it should be referenced as that
 
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Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Technicality of terms.    

Well there is a big difference and since we have a "Permit to Carry a Pistol" it should be referenced as that
 

CCW is an acceptable and well understood term. Just because our permission slip says "Permit to Carry a Pistol" on it doesn't mean that we have to use those exact words when referencing it. We are allowed to carry revolvers aren't we?
Link Posted: 1/8/2014 6:03:36 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By dpmmn:


Technicality of terms.  
Well there is a big difference and since we have a "Permit to Carry a Pistol" it should be referenced as that
 
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Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
Personally, if I do not know the person, I only sell to CCW holders
Same here.  
What happens when they have a Minnesota Permit to Carry a Pistol and not a CCW?

Do you tell them to pound sand?
 


Technicality of terms.  
Well there is a big difference and since we have a "Permit to Carry a Pistol" it should be referenced as that
 


Pedantic
Link Posted: 1/9/2014 8:25:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2014 8:27:59 AM EDT by Wormfood]
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Originally Posted By Gun_Crank:

CCW is an acceptable and well understood term. Just because our permission slip says "Permit to Carry a Pistol" on it doesn't mean that we have to use those exact words when referencing it. We are allowed to carry revolvers aren't we?
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Originally Posted By Gun_Crank:
Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Technicality of terms.    

Well there is a big difference and since we have a "Permit to Carry a Pistol" it should be referenced as that
 

CCW is an acceptable and well understood term. Just because our permission slip says "Permit to Carry a Pistol" on it doesn't mean that we have to use those exact words when referencing it. We are allowed to carry revolvers aren't we?


Revolvers aren't pistols?
Link Posted: 1/9/2014 9:17:09 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Wormfood:


Revolvers aren't pistols?
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Originally Posted By Wormfood:
Originally Posted By Gun_Crank:
Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Technicality of terms.    

Well there is a big difference and since we have a "Permit to Carry a Pistol" it should be referenced as that
 

CCW is an acceptable and well understood term. Just because our permission slip says "Permit to Carry a Pistol" on it doesn't mean that we have to use those exact words when referencing it. We are allowed to carry revolvers aren't we?


Revolvers aren't pistols?

I choose to carry a pepper-box, because it is a pistol.
Link Posted: 1/12/2014 1:49:57 PM EDT
Well this thread sure turned into a circle jerk
Link Posted: 1/17/2014 5:11:42 PM EDT
I suppose this is a good place to try and figure something out for my buddy.  One of his friends has a Glock for sale, and it's a pretty good deal so my friend wants to buy it.  His buddy lives in Florida though.  Is their only option pretty much going through an FFL to avoid any sort of possible violation of the law?  I know it's technically a private sale, and both the guy in FL and myself recommended the FFL route.












Basically he just wants to know what his options are if any outside of the FFL, as far as I know he's legal to own, he's over 21 and no felonies etc.  My only experience with out of state sales has always been through gun shops and FFLs so I just don't want him to do something that may land him in FPMITAP as it was put so eloquently here.
 
 

 
 
 
Link Posted: 1/17/2014 5:58:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Joosyan:
I suppose this is a good place to try and figure something out for my buddy.  One of his friends has a Glock for sale, and it's a pretty good deal so my friend wants to buy it.  His buddy lives in Florida though.  Is their only option pretty much going through an FFL to avoid any sort of possible violation of the law?  I know it's technically a private sale, and both the guy in FL and myself recommended the FFL route.

Basically he just wants to know what his options are if any outside of the FFL, as far as I know he's legal to own, he's over 21 and no felonies etc.  My only experience with out of state sales has always been through gun shops and FFLs so I just don't want him to do something that may land him in FPMITAP as it was put so eloquently here.      
     
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Yes, private party interstate transfers (transfers between residents of two different states) requires an FFL transfer to the buyer by law.

Transfer between residents of the same state do not require an FFL transfer according to federal law, but the state may have its own laws regarding private transfers.
Link Posted: 1/17/2014 9:08:44 PM EDT
Thanks for the info!  I'll let him know.
Link Posted: 1/25/2014 10:11:26 PM EDT
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.7132

2013 Minnesota Statutes

624.7132 REPORT OF TRANSFER.
Subdivision 1.Required information.

Except as provided in this section and section 624.7131, every person who agrees to transfer a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon shall report the following information in writing to the chief of police of the organized full-time police department of the municipality where the proposed transferee resides or to the appropriate county sheriff if there is no such local chief of police:

(1) the name, residence, telephone number, and driver's license number or nonqualification certificate number, if any, of the proposed transferee;

(2) the sex, date of birth, height, weight, and color of eyes, and distinguishing physical characteristics, if any, of the proposed transferee;

(3) a statement that the proposed transferee authorizes the release to the local police authority of commitment information about the proposed transferee maintained by the commissioner of human services, to the extent that the information relates to the proposed transferee's eligibility to possess a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon under section 624.713, subdivision 1;

(4) a statement by the proposed transferee that the transferee is not prohibited by section 624.713 from possessing a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon; and

(5) the address of the place of business of the transferor.

The report shall be signed and dated by the transferor and the proposed transferee. The report shall be delivered by the transferor to the chief of police or sheriff no later than three days after the date of the agreement to transfer, excluding weekends and legal holidays. The statement under clause (3) must comply with any applicable requirements of Code of Federal Regulations, title 42, sections 2.31 to 2.35, with respect to consent to disclosure of alcohol or drug abuse patient records.


Link Posted: 1/26/2014 3:36:22 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By capt-k-mn-us:
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.7132

2013 Minnesota Statutes

624.7132 REPORT OF TRANSFER.
Subdivision 1.Required information.

Except as provided in this section and section 624.7131, every person who agrees to transfer a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon shall report the following information in writing to the chief of police of the organized full-time police department of the municipality where the proposed transferee resides or to the appropriate county sheriff if there is no such local chief of police:

(1) the name, residence, telephone number, and driver's license number or nonqualification certificate number, if any, of the proposed transferee;

(2) the sex, date of birth, height, weight, and color of eyes, and distinguishing physical characteristics, if any, of the proposed transferee;

(3) a statement that the proposed transferee authorizes the release to the local police authority of commitment information about the proposed transferee maintained by the commissioner of human services, to the extent that the information relates to the proposed transferee's eligibility to possess a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon under section 624.713, subdivision 1;

(4) a statement by the proposed transferee that the transferee is not prohibited by section 624.713 from possessing a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon; and

(5) the address of the place of business of the transferor.

The report shall be signed and dated by the transferor and the proposed transferee. The report shall be delivered by the transferor to the chief of police or sheriff no later than three days after the date of the agreement to transfer, excluding weekends and legal holidays. The statement under clause (3) must comply with any applicable requirements of Code of Federal Regulations, title 42, sections 2.31 to 2.35, with respect to consent to disclosure of alcohol or drug abuse patient records.


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This applies to gun dealers, not individual persons.
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