Hi all,

 I've been reading the great stuff in the forums for about a year and finally decided to ask you a question or two. First off, I have a specified felony (B+E Auto) on my record from about 12 years ago. I applied for and was granted the re-instatement of my state firearm rights by the Kent County Gun Board. They advised me that buying a handgun might prove to be difficult but a rifle would not be an issue. Since then I've heard several "opinions" but the consensus is that due to lack of federal funding for re-instatements, anyone after 1992, that hadnt applied already and got grand-fathered in, will most likely never get federal approval.

I guess this is to the LEO's mostly.... If you stopped me for whatever reason and I informed of the fact that I had an AR-15 in the trunk, safely secured & unloaded of course, and I showed you my re-instatement papers from the state, would you be required to arrest me under federal or state law? or is this something that is left up to you to decide.

I ask this because I'd like to build an AR-15 and go target shooting occasionally at a public location but do not wish to ever see "that" side of the bars again. I have friends at Kentwood PD and GRPD but hesitate to ask them about it.

If any of you are know Mary Smith in the MI State Police records office, she's a whole LOT of great knowledge packed into one person, but I havent had the chance to ask her this yet.

Thanks in advance for the answers.

tag.

I am by no means an expert, or a lawer, and I didn't even stay in a Holliday Inn Express last night so you should take what I say with a grain of salt, but my understanding is that it is illegal to buy any firearm if you have a felony conviction unless you've been approved by the Federal gun board, the exception being black powder, and antique firearms as those are not considered firearms under Federal law, the state gun board only means that you won't face state charges, but you can still spend the next 10 years in Club Fed, and pay a $100,000 fine, actualy it may be 15 years now with the new 5 year additional penalty for posessing a gun during the commision of a crime irregardless of whethor or not you actually used the weapon during the crime, and in this case possessing the gun IS the crime....  It's doughtful you would be prossecuted but all it takes is one asshole Liberal cop, and DA, well in this case US Attorney....  I'de say apply to the Federal gun board but you're correct the funding for the section that could restore you're rights was eliminated, by I think an executive order from Klinton, and is now at exactly $0.00, so applying will do no good your Second Ammendment rights have been revoked, it's blatently unconstitutional so you could try sueing if you have the money, and LOTS of it, and hope you don't get a Liberal judge, if you're successful you will restore you're rights, and the rights of thousands of others, if you fail you will still have no Second Ammendment rights, and will have potentually screwed thousands, and perhaps millions of others, ofcourse this assumes the court even hears the case typicly they like to avoid gun cases at all costs, and won't touch them with a ten foot pole, alternatively, and your better bet would be to try, and get your record expunged this is alot easier, and cheaper, and actually has a realistic chance of succedeing, if it does you can truthfully answer no when asked if you've ever been convicted of a Felony, and if you fail your still screwed, but atleast noboddy else is....

I'me not trying to rain on your parade, I'm just telling you the facts as far as I currently know them, if I'm wrong someone will probably correct me, but when you broke into that car you revoked your rights to own a gun, or effectivly defend yourself ever again, unless as I said you want a cap, and ball revolver, any other black powder weapon, or an antique, which is defined by federal law as anything made in or before 1898, I think AIM currently has some Mosin Nagants built on antique recievers right now, Finnish 1891's, and M-39's, and Century has some Turkish 1903's (actualy built in 1895, and retrofitted in 1903 as I recall....), and there are alot of Swiss Vitterelis, and British Martini Henrys on the gun boards....

I'm not a lawyer either but read, read, read. Everything you need to know is in the Firearms law link I have posted below.

There are a couple Attorney General Opinions and Federal Court decison that impact the set aside of felony convictions or restoration of rights. I think if you had your felony conviction expunged and gun rights restored your ok to do what you say. There was a federal court ruling that addressed the issue as well and now if the state has restored your right I think the fed may not deny it. I think the fed court saw the failure of the government to provide the means to appeal for a restoration of rights (failure to fund)and ruled if the state has restored your right then your ok.

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
1155 Brewery Park Boulevard, Suite 300
Detroit, Michigan 48207-2602
DEC 20 2001
OPEN LETTER TO THE MICHIGAN STATE POLICE AND ALL CONCERNED PERSONS
On July 1, 2001, a new Michigan law prohibited the issuance of a Concealed Pistol Permit (CCW) to anyone convicted of a felony offense. Michigan House Bill 4530, Act 381, Public Acts of 200. As described below, under the new CCW provision, a felon convicted under Michigan law generally will be subject to Federal firearms prohibitions under the Gun Control Act (GCA).
As you know, the GCA generally prohibits convicted felons from shipping, transporting, possessing, or receiving firearms in interstate commerce. Convicted felons are not subject to the Federal firearms prohibition, however, if they: (1) receive a full restoration of civil rights, and (2) are not subject to any state firearms restrictions, such as a CCW restriction.

Conversely, if a felon is subject to a state CCW restriction, then he or she generally is subject to
the Federal firearms prohibition. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 921(a)(20), 922(g)(1); see also attached, Open Letter, March 20, 2000 (explaining Federal prohibitions and restrictions in the context of Michigan state laws and federal court decisions). Accordingly, under the new CCW provision, whether a felon convicted under Michigan state law generally will be prohibited from possessing firearms under Federal law depends on the following circumstances.

Convicted on or after July 1, 2001: The felon is subject to the Federal firearms prohibition if the underlying felony conviction occurred on or after July 1, 2001. The felon is NOT relieved of this Federal disability by obtaining an expungement or set aside of the underlying conviction under Michigan law because the felon is still subject to the restriction under the new CCW law. In this situation, to avoid the Federal firearm prohibition, the felon must obtain a gubernatorial pardon.

Convicted prior to July 1, 2001: The felon similarly is subject to the Federal prohibition if the underlying felony conviction occurred prior to July 1, 2001. In this case, to avoid the Federal firearm prohibition, prior to July 1, 2001, the felon must have completed all sentencing terms and conditions, and must have removed any and all firearms restrictions under the state’s felon-in-possession and predecessor CCW provisions;

OR, prior to July 1, 2001, the felon must have received a set aside or expungement. Alternatively, a felon who obtained a gubernatorial pardon will also avoid the Federal firearms prohibition.
It is important to note that if the underlying felony conviction occurred in another jurisdiction (either another state or in any Federal jurisdiction under Federal law) then the status of the convicted felon is determined by the law of that jurisdiction. Once again, we understand the concern this change may cause for your office and interested citizens of the State of Michigan, however we are obligated to comply with appropriate federal court decisions. If you have any further questions, please contact our Office of Division Counsel at
(313) 259-7938.
Sincerely yours,
Michael W. Morrissey
Division Director,
Detroit Field Division
Attachment
WWW.ATF.TREAS.GOV
No. 7121

Read ----AG Opinion Opinion No. 7133
May 2, 2003
CONCEALED WEAPONS: Eligibility for concealed pistol license of persons whose felony convictions have been set aside.

I think you would certainly have a hard time getting a ccw but if I was you I would get the ccw application and go thru the process, be truthful on the application and appear before the board. If the board chose they could issue, I think.

Having said that I can point you to this complied laws, ag opinions and letters of the state of  Michigan. Go to the end of the document and start looking back you will come across the ag opinions and a letter from the ATF addressing the issues of which you speak.

www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/firearms.pdf

www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-17334_17362_22672---,00.html

Thanks for the very indepth help. I'll have to spend some time reading now.

From what I could gather from the first part of BustOff's info, felons that have had their rights restored AND can obtain a CCW, are able to ignore the federal rules with some safety. Thats basically unheard of w/o an expungment or getting the record set aside. I dont qualify for either due getting to two misdemeanor's in the same period as the felony. There is a chance for a pardon from Gov. Granholm but I've read that she's turned down every application, so far. That almost makes it not worth the time to fill out the lengthly application. The process takes a LONG time too, from what I've read.

Restored prior to the 2001 date and I thought you had your rights restored, set aside or expunged. You may be SOL.

Get a lawyer and get the Felony conviction expunged. If this is the only conviction a Circuit Court Judge can wipe it off your record. My friend had a cocaine charge in 1985,and had it expunged in 2004. If you have been good for 12 years then pay some money for a good lawyer and have him take care of it. Think of a good reason why you need the Felony wiped off , a good pitch to the judge. Tell him you always dreamed of being a LEO or CO , and if you could get that Felony expunged you could persue that dream (something well thought out, but honest of course).
Check into it and post what you find out.

BustOff... No, the restoration wasnt until the summer of '04.

I'm left with one option -the pardon. Fat chance but I'll try anyway.

Question for ya - Could I get in trouble if I were traveling with someone, as a passenger in their vehicle, who was transporting firearms and we got pulled over?


Spartan28... I've checked into the expungment but since I have two misdemeanors after the felony, thats not an option.

Quoted: BustOff... No, the restoration wasnt until the summer of '04. I'm left with one option -the pardon. Fat chance but I'll try anyway. Question for ya - Could I get in trouble if I were traveling with someone, as a passenger in their vehicle, who was transporting firearms and we got pulled over? Spartan28... I've checked into the expungment but since I have two misdemeanors after the felony, thats not an option.

I think if you were on Probation or Parole you would get in trouble. I do not think that if someone has a Felony it infringes on another persons right to own Firearms. If that person leagally possesses (or transports) a firearm it should not have anything to do with you.

Have you ever listen to G. Gordon Liddy on the radio? He always makes the comment " I cant own a gun , but my wife sure owns a lot of them".

Hmm
All I know is I have a CPL and most of my friends know this.
One friend who is a felon (selling prescription pills), off probation always asks me to lock my gun in his safe if I am picking him up from his office to go out to lunch or something and makes the comment "sorry, but you know I have a felony"

Quoted: I've checked into the expungment but since I have two misdemeanors after the felony, thats not an option.

Then, I think I'm glad you can't own weapons, you obviously arent' exactly the trustworthy type.

Quoted: Hmm All I know is I have a CPL and most of my friends know this. One friend who is a felon (selling prescription pills), off probation always asks me to lock my gun in his safe if I am picking him up from his office to go out to lunch or something and makes the comment "sorry, but you know I have a felony"

I think you should be more selective in who you call "friend".

Clean up on aisle 6...............

Quoted: Quoted: I've checked into the expungment but since I have two misdemeanors after the felony, thats not an option. Then, I think I'm glad you can't own weapons, you obviously arent' exactly the trustworthy type.

Ouch man.  He seems to be going about all of this in an organized, systematic way.  Did you ever make any mistakes in your life?  Ever drive home after a few drinks and NOT get pulled over only to think "whew... good thing no cops were around, I may have blown over."  

Now, I never broke into anyone's car or home or sold drugs, but I have done some less than legal things in my youth. I'm just trying to say give the guy a break for asking us about his options.  He didn't ask if YOU think he should own a rifle...

Ya... Garand06... your def. the guy to make such a HUGE judgement call about me and my nearly 12 year old record. All of the "black marks" on my record happened in a matter of 4 months. I guess your high and mighty self has never done something that could be considered illegal (not that your perfect self would admit to it here anyway, you schmuk). I know that I need not justify my actions or stand up for my character to the likes of you but I get mad at idiots like you who would make a statement like that. I guess that the directors of security for 3 major companies I've worked for, were all foolish people to let me work in their security dept's with full knowledge of my felony and misdemeanor history. I guess your probably in a higher position of responsibility and would obviously see right through my game. Be sure to lock your double-wides bedroom door before you go to that awesome job and life of yours.


...loser

Quoted: Did you ever make any mistakes in your life?

YEP.  Plenty of stupid, dumb@$$ mistakes, but aside from getting caught riding a mini-bike down a county road when I was fourteen, nothing that ever fell into the illegal category.

Last time I checked, the only person who never made any mistakes lived about 2000 years ago.

Quoted: Ever drive home after a few drinks and NOT get pulled over only to think ...

NOPE, and you probably don't wanna know what I think the penalty oughta be for that!

Quoted: I guess your high and mighty self has never done something that could be considered illegal (not that your perfect self would admit to it here anyway, you schmuk).

See above.

I also should fess up that I bend a few of the motor vehicle code rules fairly often, but AFAIK those are civil infractions.

As far as me being a loser, which one of us doesn't need to ask the questions you're asking now?

Garand06

Sorry for the blasting I sent your way, but i get set off quickly when it comes to my past. I've tried SO VERY hard to outlive that part of my life but I cant get away from it. Worst part is.... if I'd had a regular attorney and not a public defender, I wouldnt have the felony at all. The PD didnt offer help on how to plea so I just took the offer that included no jail.

You were correct in the last thing you said (I havent read up on quoting yet)
"As far as me being a loser, which one of us doesn't need to ask the questions you're asking now?"

I am the one asking because its a reality for ME and not you. I just really worship the AR-15 and would love to have one someday. Looks like it wont happen legally and I dont want to go jail ever again.

Have you ever listened to G. Gordon Liddy on the radio? He always makes the comment " I cant own a gun , but my wife sure owns a lot of them".


Maybe you should find a wife or a girlfriend who loves firearms

Spartan28

Yup, I have a fiance that doesnt mind guns but I dont know if she'd mind buying "some" guns or not. It might look kinda strange if she walked into a store and asked for a HK Mark23 (one of my wishlist guns), being as large as it is. Maybe they dont ask questions if the record is clean and the cash is on the table but...lol... that would crack ME up if I were the person selling it.

You need to contact an attorney who is knowledgeable in firerms law.
I recommend Jim Simmons. 586-566-1900
First call is free.

Sorry to hear about your record.... good luck getting it cleared.  I am one of the lucky ones.  I had a record as long as my leg when I was under age,  but it was cleared as part of a plea deal because I was underage.  If I had been convicted (I never was) I would'nt be legal either.  But looking back it has really changed my opinion of how the youth are handled within our court systems.  You can make a realatively small error in judgement and have a rather large black mark on your record forever.  The LEO's don't even have the descrepency to let you go anymore,  ie.... dump your beer out kid!!!  I was lucky partly because LEO cut me a lot of slack due to the nature of the offense.  But he could have nailed me to the wall.  Which would have killed the deal I got.  Nowadays LEO's are left afraid to cut anyone slack due to liability.  Like everyone else I don't want any violent offenders cut any slack,  but lets face it your just ensuring that some of these kids will never get past a minor infraction to later become productive members of society.  The fact that someone is obviously working to straighten there life out leads me to believe that they deserve a second chance.

Good Luck

Quoted: Garand06 Sorry for the blasting I sent your way...

No problem.

Later,
Tim

The Bible says to "Forgive".

Quoted:I do not think that if someone has a Felony it infringes on another persons right to own Firearms. If that person leagally possesses (or transports) a firearm it should not have anything to do with you.

If you are attempting to get someone sent  (back) to prison, you're doing a good job.

Felon in possession laws do not require PHYSICAL posession.  Constructive possession is good enough.  If you don't understand constructive possession, I suggest you NOT give advice on the subject.  

Possession may be actual or constructive, joint or exclusive, and may be proved by
circumstantial evidence. People v Hill, 433 Mich 464, 469-471; 446 NW2d 140 (1989). “[A]
defendant has constructive possession of a firearm if the location of the weapon is known and it
is reasonably accessible to the defendant.” Id. at 470-471. See also People v Burgenmeyer, 461
Mich 431, 438; 606 NW2d 645 (2000) (observing that “a person has constructive possession if
there is proximity to the article together with indicia of control”);

From the code of conduct....4.) Posting comments or links in support of illegal activities including, but not limited to, threats against the life of any living person, doing harm to a state or federal official, or advocating the overthrow of the governme