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Posted: 4/9/2006 5:15:05 PM EST
The trigger/disconnector pin on one of my AR's snapped right in half. It went FA with a ton of extra recoil and I knew something was no good. Lifted up the upper and saw the disconnector next to the hammer on the left side of the lower and the pin sheared in half. The trigger however stayed in place with one end of the broken pin in either side of the lower. How ya like that?

M4 clone. Bushy lower, M&A LPK.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 5:17:10 PM EST
dam dude...

did ya get alot of funny looks?
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 7:37:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 9:53:10 PM EST by npd233]
i think you had other problems because taking the disconnector out of the equation shouldn't result in FA fire. What else broke?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:31:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By npd233:
i think you had other problems because taking the disconnector out of the equation shouldn't result in FA fire. What else broke?




Removing a disconnector will absolutely result in slam fires. It will also result in the hammer following the bolt carrier forward and being a single shot, but it will result in slam fires. No other problems I have built more of these rifles over the years than I should admit to. Of all the things I have seen go haywire on an AR, never seen a trigger pin shear in half.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:32:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By ops144:
dam dude...

did ya get alot of funny looks?




Nope it was bump fire grand central there on Sunday.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:51:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By patriot73:
M&A LPK.



[mechanics voice] Now there's your problem, right there[mechanics voice]



WIZZO
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:43:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
M&A LPK.



[mechanics voice] Now there's your problem, right there[mechanics voice]



WIZZO




The worst part about it was I called M&A today and asked them to send me a new trigger pin (they are the next town over) and they hung up on me. I called back and reamed the dickweed a new one. I used to do alot with M&A at the Lakemoor gunshow, never again.

Stupid thing is, you never know who you give an attitude to on the phone. I have known several M&A employees. Let's just say, there is a lot to say if the Patriot was a vindictive prick. Good thing he's not
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:46:53 AM EST
Bet the whole thing was kinda fun while it lasted though. lol
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:03:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
M&A LPK.



[mechanics voice] Now there's your problem, right there[mechanics voice]



WIZZO




The worst part about it was I called M&A today and asked them to send me a new trigger pin (they are the next town over) and they hung up on me. I called back and reamed the dickweed a new one. I used to do alot with M&A at the Lakemoor gunshow, never again.

Stupid thing is, you never know who you give an attitude to on the phone. I have known several M&A employees. Let's just say, there is a lot to say if the Patriot was a vindictive prick. Good thing he's not



That's just stupid business.

How much is a trigger pin? Less than a buck? You probably would have been happy with a new trigger pin, hell, throw in an extra for shits & giggles. You would have spent more money with them, and told us how cool they were.

They do it this way, they lose your future business, and possibly business from others.

Stupid.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:13:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
M&A LPK.



[mechanics voice] Now there's your problem, right there[mechanics voice]



WIZZO




The worst part about it was I called M&A today and asked them to send me a new trigger pin (they are the next town over) and they hung up on me. I called back and reamed the dickweed a new one. I used to do alot with M&A at the Lakemoor gunshow, never again.

Stupid thing is, you never know who you give an attitude to on the phone. I have known several M&A employees. Let's just say, there is a lot to say if the Patriot was a vindictive prick. Good thing he's not



Did you feel a hand come through the phone and strangle you?

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 1:19:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:10:15 PM EST
Sell your ar and buy your self an AK....yes.....yes come to the dark side

www.transom.org/shows/photos/200210.vader1.240.jpg....now go buy a kalashnikov
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:27:00 PM EST
Hell, glad you had fun, . My first day in D.C. was Mon. Nothing like driving a full size ext cab around to the hotel, then finding out the Illeagal Fucking Parade is going on.

Luckily for them , my truck did not go full throttle.

Got some cool pics, wife lap top is kinda funky. I will try to get pics up as soon as I can.

Did the site go down yesterday?


Driving down to Richmond tomorrow, if I dont get in a crash getting out of this freaky laid out town.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 3:23:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By HRoark:

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
M&A LPK.



[mechanics voice] Now there's your problem, right there[mechanics voice]



WIZZO




The worst part about it was I called M&A today and asked them to send me a new trigger pin (they are the next town over) and they hung up on me. I called back and reamed the dickweed a new one. I used to do alot with M&A at the Lakemoor gunshow, never again.

Stupid thing is, you never know who you give an attitude to on the phone. I have known several M&A employees. Let's just say, there is a lot to say if the Patriot was a vindictive prick. Good thing he's not



That's just stupid business.

How much is a trigger pin? Less than a buck? You probably would have been happy with a new trigger pin, hell, throw in an extra for shits & giggles. You would have spent more money with them, and told us how cool they were.

They do it this way, they lose your future business, and possibly business from others.

Stupid.



Typical old school gun business arogance. I will never understand the attitude of gun business people, auto parts store help and the jerks at rental places. I will never deal with them again. Next time they need something from me, which has been often, they are SOL.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 3:24:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lando12:
Sell your ar and buy your self an AK....yes.....yes come to the dark side

www.transom.org/shows/photos/200210.vader1.240.jpg....now go buy a kalashnikov






I have both. I prefer the AR platform.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 3:32:49 AM EST
Worst part is, as someone mentioned, it would have cost them maybe two bucks to keep an ARFCOM member, fellow gun show dealer and most importantly a CUSTOMER happy. Do you guys have any idea how much free stuff I give my homeowners during the course of a major remodel?

I am very disappointed with the attitude over there. The AR parts market is saturated, I can easily take my business elsewhere. For instance, I was so disgusted yesterday after getting hung up on, I stripped the lower of all M&A's garbage and have a CMT LPK on the way from Global Tactical (the best guys out there if you ask me) The CMT LPK is the same quality as Colt (better if you ask me) and cost me $63 shipped. That is a few bucks cheaper than M&A when you add in tax and shipping. So when one phone slams down, another one is answered. I was also going to order a few delta rings from M&A yesterday before the attitude and hangu up began. This guy named Doc at M&A treated me like an idiot. I could go down to M&A TODAY and build uppers all day, it ain't hard. I wonder if "Doc" could do what I do all day, highly doubtful. One of my guys would adjust his attitude before coffee break.



Hey M&A parts.....I hope your owner keeps lunging over gun show tables and punching people, you people are lost.

Bye bye M&A


Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:12:05 AM EST
Hey Patriot,

If you want some parts just let me know I have a bunch of RRA or DPMS lower kits laying around. I will give you what ever you need buddy!
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 12:00:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 12:01:27 PM EST by racecar]
I had the exact same problem today. Exactly

I needed a small part for one of my guns and I called a parts distributor and the guy tried to actually charge me for it. Then there was a bunch of talk about shipping and some garbage about a minimum order quantity. I said "It's just a tiny little piece if metal" and "Can't he be a good guy and just send it to me". "Why would I call up and ask for it if it wasn't in some way owed to me." What did he think I was, a sociopath? I did buy some parts from a different guy at that company that one time. Didn't he tell everybody? He keeps trying to tell me that that parts are for sale so tell him that I will drum up a lot of business for him cuz I'm gonna go online and say how cool he and his company are so other people will go there and pay ACTUAL Money for stuff they need.

He kicks it up a notch and hangs up on me.

WTF!! I mean...What am I.... an asshole?

They have severely miscalculated who they are dealing with so I figure I will tell this guy what a mistake he is making and call him back and give him the red ass for not taking care of me. All I wanted was a tiny little part. After all I am the customer and the customer is ( In fact I make my friends call me "the customer" because I am....) always right.


Something is really wrong with America. Who the hell did that guy think he was?

JR
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 3:39:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By PCGuns:
Hey Patriot,

If you want some parts just let me know I have a bunch of RRA or DPMS lower kits laying around. I will give you what ever you need buddy!




Thank you my friend.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 3:47:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By racecar:
I had the exact same problem today. Exactly

I needed a small part for one of my guns and I called a parts distributor and the guy tried to actually charge me for it. Then there was a bunch of talk about shipping and some garbage about a minimum order quantity. I said "It's just a tiny little piece if metal" and "Can't he be a good guy and just send it to me". "Why would I call up and ask for it if it wasn't in some way owed to me." What did he think I was, a sociopath? I did buy some parts from a different guy at that company that one time. Didn't he tell everybody? He keeps trying to tell me that that parts are for sale so tell him that I will drum up a lot of business for him cuz I'm gonna go online and say how cool he and his company are so other people will go there and pay ACTUAL Money for stuff they need.

He kicks it up a notch and hangs up on me.

WTF!! I mean...What am I.... an asshole?

They have severely miscalculated who they are dealing with so I figure I will tell this guy what a mistake he is making and call him back and give him the red ass for not taking care of me. All I wanted was a tiny little part. After all I am the customer and the customer is ( In fact I make my friends call me "the customer" because I am....) always right.


Something is really wrong with America. Who the hell did that guy think he was?

JR




Is that sarcasm? Do you think trigger pins should snap in half and then not be replaced by the company that sold them? Do you think people should hang up on customers? If you weren't being sarcastic I apologize, but it sounds like you are.

Did you know the average American never makes more than $35k per year? There are clear reasons for that.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 4:10:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 4:11:24 PM EST by Lando12]

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By Lando12:
Sell your ar and buy your self an AK....yes.....yes come to the dark side

www.transom.org/shows/photos/200210.vader1.240.jpg....now go buy a kalashnikov






I have both. I prefer the AR platform.



ok.....well.......I'll just go back to the AK side of the site ......with my people
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 4:22:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 4:23:44 PM EST by racecar]

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Is that sarcasm?

Did you know the average American never makes more than $35k per year? There are clear reasons for that.



It was satire actualy.

But brother, don't sell yourself short. You are far from average. But keep trying.

( Now that was sarcasm.)


JR
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 3:17:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By racecar:

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Is that sarcasm?

Did you know the average American never makes more than $35k per year? There are clear reasons for that.



It was satire actualy.

But brother, don't sell yourself short. You are far from average. Keep at it.

( Now that was sarcasm.)


JR



LOL. I am far from average I suppose and love every second of it.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 3:46:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 4:46:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By patriot73:
Worst part is, as someone mentioned, it would have cost them maybe two bucks to keep an ARFCOM member, fellow gun show dealer and most importantly a CUSTOMER happy. Do you guys have any idea how much free stuff I give my homeowners during the course of a major remodel?

I am very disappointed with the attitude over there. The AR parts market is saturated, I can easily take my business elsewhere. For instance, I was so disgusted yesterday after getting hung up on, I stripped the lower of all M&A's garbage and have a CMT LPK on the way from Global Tactical (the best guys out there if you ask me) The CMT LPK is the same quality as Colt (better if you ask me) and cost me $63 shipped. That is a few bucks cheaper than M&A when you add in tax and shipping. So when one phone slams down, another one is answered. I was also going to order a few delta rings from M&A yesterday before the attitude and hangu up began. This guy named Doc at M&A treated me like an idiot. I could go down to M&A TODAY and build uppers all day, it ain't hard. I wonder if "Doc" could do what I do all day, highly doubtful. One of my guys would adjust his attitude before coffee break.



Hey M&A parts.....I hope your owner keeps lunging over gun show tables and punching people, you people are lost.

Bye bye M&A





i was going to order an upper from them next month............................

pc guns you have a web sight?
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 7:54:40 AM EST
Someone told me about M&A and twice I have tried them twice since they are about three miles from home. Both times I got lousy, rude service. First time I put up with the BS and high price because I really wanted to get a rifle finished for a weekend shoot, then after giving me clearance to come to their place and the super secret instructions on how to complete the transaction they called back and said they didn't have the part. I asked when they might have another and the moron says "There's a war on, how am I supposed to know." The second time the guy was such a jackass when I asked what he obviously considered to be the stupidest question in the history of mankind, so I told him no thanks. I know they were small sales to them, but because of their crappy service, I will never be a big sale to them.

They are a strange crew over there. You aren't even allowed in the building if you aren't a sworn LEO. I was actually curious to see how the transaction would have gone. I kind of imagine a Korean war POW type swap where they yell from a distance "Put the small demonination bills down and step back 100 feet". They have a sniper cover you while someone counts the money. If the amount is okay they drop your parts and run back inside. I wonder if it's a CIA front or something, maybe Jack Bauer is hiding in there.

What is this about someone lunging at customers at a gunshow? The old, bad Andy would have made it a point to antagonize a prick like that, but those days are over and I'm an angel now (sometimes being bad can be fun).
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:35:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By handyandy:
Someone told me about M&A and twice I have tried them twice since they are about three miles from home. Both times I got lousy, rude service. First time I put up with the BS and high price because I really wanted to get a rifle finished for a weekend shoot, then after giving me clearance to come to their place and the super secret instructions on how to complete the transaction they called back and said they didn't have the part. I asked when they might have another and the moron says "There's a war on, how am I supposed to know." The second time the guy was such a jackass when I asked what he obviously considered to be the stupidest question in the history of mankind, so I told him no thanks. I know they were small sales to them, but because of their crappy service, I will never be a big sale to them.

They are a strange crew over there. You aren't even allowed in the building if you aren't a sworn LEO. I was actually curious to see how the transaction would have gone. I kind of imagine a Korean war POW type swap where they yell from a distance "Put the small demonination bills down and step back 100 feet". They have a sniper cover you while someone counts the money. If the amount is okay they drop your parts and run back inside. I wonder if it's a CIA front or something, maybe Jack Bauer is hiding in there.

What is this about someone lunging at customers at a gunshow? The old, bad Andy would have made it a point to antagonize a prick like that, but those days are over and I'm an angel now (sometimes being bad can be fun).



......thats good stuff
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:34:47 AM EST
was going to order M&A.. i went model1sales insted
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:52:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 11:53:48 AM EST by patriot73]

Originally Posted By handyandy:
I was actually curious to see how the transaction would have gone. I kind of imagine a Korean war POW type swap where they yell from a distance "Put the small demonination bills down and step back 100 feet". They have a sniper cover you while someone counts the money. If the amount is okay they drop your parts and run back inside. I wonder if it's a CIA front or something, maybe Jack Bauer is hiding in there.



Now that's funny, I don't care who you are

What is this about someone lunging at customers at a gunshow? The old, bad Andy would have made it a point to antagonize a prick like that, but those days are over and I'm an angel now (sometimes being bad can be fun).



In Texas at a gunshow "da Boss" smacked a guy from across the table. I think the guy he hit was a Lawyer. oops.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 4:01:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
M&A LPK.



[mechanics voice] Now there's your problem, right there[mechanics voice]



WIZZO



It certainly would be just like that ...if ya took your ford to the chevy dealer or your chevy to the ford dealer.

I have had my ar since 2000, I have put thousand upon thousands of rounds through it, I have abused it, and have NEVER had any failures. It is an Oly lower and M&A parts for the rest. I have had nothing but pleasant and helpfull experiences with M&A, and when I replaced my post ban barrel last fall, I bought my new one from them. I even went to the shop and picked it up, where they had it nicely wrapped and waiting for me. When I originally built it, there was a dentent pin and spring missing. I called the shop, and the secretary dropped it off at my house on her way home, and they even gave me a couple other parts in the little bag as well. Sorry if a board member had a bad experience with them in TX, but that Darth Vader crap is getting about as old as those glock kb'ing comments.

To say the pin failed because of it coming from M&A is horse shit. Yup, Horse Shit. As with any machine made of metal, there is always a chance for a piece to fail. If they didn't they wouldn't sell ez-outs, tap kits, etc. If you even try to sell me on the idea that colt, rra, bushmaster goes as far as to scrutinize their disconnect pins or any other small parts for metalurgical perfection, I will tell you that you are out of your tree.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 5:23:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By CosmicOne-Der:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
M&A LPK.



[mechanics voice] Now there's your problem, right there[mechanics voice]



WIZZO



It certainly would be just like that ...if ya took your ford to the chevy dealer or your chevy to the ford dealer.

I have had my ar since 2000, I have put thousand upon thousands of rounds through it, I have abused it, and have NEVER had any failures. It is an Oly lower and M&A parts for the rest. I have had nothing but pleasant and helpfull experiences with M&A, and when I replaced my post ban barrel last fall, I bought my new one from them. I even went to the shop and picked it up, where they had it nicely wrapped and waiting for me. When I originally built it, there was a dentent pin and spring missing. I called the shop, and the secretary dropped it off at my house on her way home, and they even gave me a couple other parts in the little bag as well. Sorry if a board member had a bad experience with them in TX, but that Darth Vader crap is getting about as old as those glock kb'ing comments.

To say the pin failed because of it coming from M&A is horse shit. Yup, Horse Shit. As with any machine made of metal, there is always a chance for a piece to fail. If they didn't they wouldn't sell ez-outs, tap kits, etc. If you even try to sell me on the idea that colt, rra, bushmaster goes as far as to scrutinize their disconnect pins or any other small parts for metalurgical perfection, I will tell you that you are out of your tree.




I never said it failed because it came from M&A.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 5:53:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By CosmicOne-Der:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
M&A LPK.



[mechanics voice] Now there's your problem, right there[mechanics voice]



WIZZO



It certainly would be just like that ...if ya took your ford to the chevy dealer or your chevy to the ford dealer.

I have had my ar since 2000, I have put thousand upon thousands of rounds through it, I have abused it, and have NEVER had any failures. It is an Oly lower and M&A parts for the rest. I have had nothing but pleasant and helpfull experiences with M&A, and when I replaced my post ban barrel last fall, I bought my new one from them. I even went to the shop and picked it up, where they had it nicely wrapped and waiting for me. When I originally built it, there was a dentent pin and spring missing. I called the shop, and the secretary dropped it off at my house on her way home, and they even gave me a couple other parts in the little bag as well. Sorry if a board member had a bad experience with them in TX, but that Darth Vader crap is getting about as old as those glock kb'ing comments.

To say the pin failed because of it coming from M&A is horse shit. Yup, Horse Shit. As with any machine made of metal, there is always a chance for a piece to fail. If they didn't they wouldn't sell ez-outs, tap kits, etc. If you even try to sell me on the idea that colt, rra, bushmaster goes as far as to scrutinize their disconnect pins or any other small parts for metalurgical perfection, I will tell you that you are out of your tree.




I never said it failed because it came from M&A.



No you did not. Our Wiz-Kid did.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 7:05:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 7:08:33 PM EST by AR-15User]



Nope it was bump fire grand central there on Sunday.

__________________________________________________________


I was there Sunday with my 12 year old. I had the Black 2500 Suburban. It was definately bump fire day.


Link Posted: 4/13/2006 7:17:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By CosmicOne-Der:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
M&A LPK.



[mechanics voice] Now there's your problem, right there[mechanics voice]



WIZZO



It certainly would be just like that ...if ya took your ford to the chevy dealer or your chevy to the ford dealer.

I have had my ar since 2000, I have put thousand upon thousands of rounds through it, I have abused it, and have NEVER had any failures. It is an Oly lower and M&A parts for the rest. I have had nothing but pleasant and helpfull experiences with M&A, and when I replaced my post ban barrel last fall, I bought my new one from them. I even went to the shop and picked it up, where they had it nicely wrapped and waiting for me. When I originally built it, there was a dentent pin and spring missing. I called the shop, and the secretary dropped it off at my house on her way home, and they even gave me a couple other parts in the little bag as well. Sorry if a board member had a bad experience with them in TX, but that Darth Vader crap is getting about as old as those glock kb'ing comments.

To say the pin failed because of it coming from M&A is horse shit. Yup, Horse Shit. As with any machine made of metal, there is always a chance for a piece to fail. If they didn't they wouldn't sell ez-outs, tap kits, etc. If you even try to sell me on the idea that colt, rra, bushmaster goes as far as to scrutinize their disconnect pins or any other small parts for metalurgical perfection, I will tell you that you are out of your tree.



That all may be true, and Im glad you had good luck with them; but really bad customer service in a market that is saturated already AND you are trying to live down a really famous episode of horrible customer service is unacceptable IMO. But they have the right to run their business as they see fit.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 2:16:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By CosmicOne-Der:

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By CosmicOne-Der:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
M&A LPK.



[mechanics voice] Now there's your problem, right there[mechanics voice]



WIZZO



It certainly would be just like that ...if ya took your ford to the chevy dealer or your chevy to the ford dealer.

I have had my ar since 2000, I have put thousand upon thousands of rounds through it, I have abused it, and have NEVER had any failures. It is an Oly lower and M&A parts for the rest. I have had nothing but pleasant and helpfull experiences with M&A, and when I replaced my post ban barrel last fall, I bought my new one from them. I even went to the shop and picked it up, where they had it nicely wrapped and waiting for me. When I originally built it, there was a dentent pin and spring missing. I called the shop, and the secretary dropped it off at my house on her way home, and they even gave me a couple other parts in the little bag as well. Sorry if a board member had a bad experience with them in TX, but that Darth Vader crap is getting about as old as those glock kb'ing comments.

To say the pin failed because of it coming from M&A is horse shit. Yup, Horse Shit. As with any machine made of metal, there is always a chance for a piece to fail. If they didn't they wouldn't sell ez-outs, tap kits, etc. If you even try to sell me on the idea that colt, rra, bushmaster goes as far as to scrutinize their disconnect pins or any other small parts for metalurgical perfection, I will tell you that you are out of your tree.




I never said it failed because it came from M&A.



No you did not. Our Wiz-Kid did.




But to be quite honest Bushy, RRA and M&A LPK's all come from the same foundry. Bushy and RRA parts pass a much higher QC test. Parts are tested in lots, not one disconnector at a time. Buying any parts from M&A is like buying Federal LC pull down ammo.

It used to make me laugh, M&A used to claim their uppers were made by FN, which is absured BS. From what I understand their uppers are now second tier RRA parts.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 2:19:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:

Originally Posted By CosmicOne-Der:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
M&A LPK.



[mechanics voice] Now there's your problem, right there[mechanics voice]



WIZZO



It certainly would be just like that ...if ya took your ford to the chevy dealer or your chevy to the ford dealer.

I have had my ar since 2000, I have put thousand upon thousands of rounds through it, I have abused it, and have NEVER had any failures. It is an Oly lower and M&A parts for the rest. I have had nothing but pleasant and helpfull experiences with M&A, and when I replaced my post ban barrel last fall, I bought my new one from them. I even went to the shop and picked it up, where they had it nicely wrapped and waiting for me. When I originally built it, there was a dentent pin and spring missing. I called the shop, and the secretary dropped it off at my house on her way home, and they even gave me a couple other parts in the little bag as well. Sorry if a board member had a bad experience with them in TX, but that Darth Vader crap is getting about as old as those glock kb'ing comments.

To say the pin failed because of it coming from M&A is horse shit. Yup, Horse Shit. As with any machine made of metal, there is always a chance for a piece to fail. If they didn't they wouldn't sell ez-outs, tap kits, etc. If you even try to sell me on the idea that colt, rra, bushmaster goes as far as to scrutinize their disconnect pins or any other small parts for metalurgical perfection, I will tell you that you are out of your tree.



That all may be true, and Im glad you had good luck with them; but really bad customer service in a market that is saturated already AND you are trying to live down a really famous episode of horrible customer service is unacceptable IMO. But they have the right to run their business as they see fit.



Yep they do have a right to run their business as they see fit. And they run it poorly. They have a member name for this board, wonder where they are? I have just had it with the arrogance of fifty year old Viagra popping aholes that work in the gun business. I have never seen such arrogant low paid people in my life. I see no difference in working at a gun retail shop and working at a Mobil.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 2:21:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR-15User:


Nope it was bump fire grand central there on Sunday.

__________________________________________________________


I was there Sunday with my 12 year old. I had the Black 2500 Suburban. It was definately bump fire day.






Would have been nice to meet you my brother. I think we need to get flags made for our trucks with our user names. There were two tatooed dudes next to me bump firing it up. But no 12 year old and I think they had an Expedition, cool guys. I was there with my 8 year old. He shot up 550 rounds of 22 LR. with a bolt gun!

Big thanks to Rebel 13 for treating my kid so nice, he is a true gentleman.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:25:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:

Originally Posted By CosmicOne-Der:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
M&A LPK.



[mechanics voice] Now there's your problem, right there[mechanics voice]



WIZZO



It certainly would be just like that ...if ya took your ford to the chevy dealer or your chevy to the ford dealer.

I have had my ar since 2000, I have put thousand upon thousands of rounds through it, I have abused it, and have NEVER had any failures. It is an Oly lower and M&A parts for the rest. I have had nothing but pleasant and helpfull experiences with M&A, and when I replaced my post ban barrel last fall, I bought my new one from them. I even went to the shop and picked it up, where they had it nicely wrapped and waiting for me. When I originally built it, there was a dentent pin and spring missing. I called the shop, and the secretary dropped it off at my house on her way home, and they even gave me a couple other parts in the little bag as well. Sorry if a board member had a bad experience with them in TX, but that Darth Vader crap is getting about as old as those glock kb'ing comments.

To say the pin failed because of it coming from M&A is horse shit. Yup, Horse Shit. As with any machine made of metal, there is always a chance for a piece to fail. If they didn't they wouldn't sell ez-outs, tap kits, etc. If you even try to sell me on the idea that colt, rra, bushmaster goes as far as to scrutinize their disconnect pins or any other small parts for metalurgical perfection, I will tell you that you are out of your tree.



That all may be true, and Im glad you had good luck with them; but really bad customer service in a market that is saturated already AND you are trying to live down a really famous episode of horrible customer service is unacceptable IMO. But they have the right to run their business as they see fit.



A famous episode...hmmmm...AR-15 doth not make the world....and remember what you read here, take with a grain of salt, or the whole shaker in some cases. Really bad customer service? I imagine it is possible to get bad service from any company as they are staffed by humans. Since humans can be quite pissy, look round this site for proof, I surmise that you could get a customer service rep at bushy, or rra having a bad day as well. If you call with a problem, you are already having a bad day yourself, and if you encounter someone who is pre-occupoied, having marital problems, etc, and they are less than helpfull, well that is just going to make your attitude worse. Unless you are always 100% sunshine and giggles at work, don't expect everyone else to be.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:27:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By AR-15User:


Nope it was bump fire grand central there on Sunday.

__________________________________________________________


I was there Sunday with my 12 year old. I had the Black 2500 Suburban. It was definately bump fire day.







Would have been nice to meet you my brother. I think we need to get flags made for our trucks with our user names. There were two tatooed dudes next to me bump firing it up. But no 12 year old and I think they had an Expedition, cool guys. I was there with my 8 year old. He shot up 550 rounds of 22 LR. with a bolt gun!

Big thanks to Rebel 13 for treating my kid so nice, he is a true gentleman.




We will be there again for Blastfest, I'm tryin' to talk PCGuns in to goin' with us. He's my preffered FFL, and my buddys neighbor. He said it was a possiblility, so we will see.


Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:33:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By CosmicOne-Der:

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By CosmicOne-Der:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
M&A LPK.



[mechanics voice] Now there's your problem, right there[mechanics voice]



WIZZO



It certainly would be just like that ...if ya took your ford to the chevy dealer or your chevy to the ford dealer.

I have had my ar since 2000, I have put thousand upon thousands of rounds through it, I have abused it, and have NEVER had any failures. It is an Oly lower and M&A parts for the rest. I have had nothing but pleasant and helpfull experiences with M&A, and when I replaced my post ban barrel last fall, I bought my new one from them. I even went to the shop and picked it up, where they had it nicely wrapped and waiting for me. When I originally built it, there was a dentent pin and spring missing. I called the shop, and the secretary dropped it off at my house on her way home, and they even gave me a couple other parts in the little bag as well. Sorry if a board member had a bad experience with them in TX, but that Darth Vader crap is getting about as old as those glock kb'ing comments.

To say the pin failed because of it coming from M&A is horse shit. Yup, Horse Shit. As with any machine made of metal, there is always a chance for a piece to fail. If they didn't they wouldn't sell ez-outs, tap kits, etc. If you even try to sell me on the idea that colt, rra, bushmaster goes as far as to scrutinize their disconnect pins or any other small parts for metalurgical perfection, I will tell you that you are out of your tree.




I never said it failed because it came from M&A.



No you did not. Our Wiz-Kid did.




But to be quite honest Bushy, RRA and M&A LPK's all come from the same foundry. Bushy and RRA parts pass a much higher QC test. Parts are tested in lots, not one disconnector at a time. Buying any parts from M&A is like buying Federal LC pull down ammo.

It used to make me laugh, M&A used to claim their uppers were made by FN, which is absured BS. From what I understand their uppers are now second tier RRA parts.



So if all the parts come from the SAME foundry, and are tested in LOTS, the next step in the logic train is that the failure you experienced could very well happen with any of the other three. Oh yes, you said the "higher QC test" hmmmm and what exactly would that be for a pin?

The fact is, as I stated before, these are "machines" using metal parts, moving metal parts. Anyone who has ever owned a car, boat or plane know that metal parts can and WILL break. If you have Mr. Murphy tagging along, as he always seems to, you would be wise to keep a spare parts kit with you when you go to the range.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 8:32:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By CosmicOne-Der:

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By CosmicOne-Der:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
M&A LPK.



[mechanics voice] Now there's your problem, right there[mechanics voice]



WIZZO



It certainly would be just like that ...if ya took your ford to the chevy dealer or your chevy to the ford dealer.

I have had my ar since 2000, I have put thousand upon thousands of rounds through it, I have abused it, and have NEVER had any failures. It is an Oly lower and M&A parts for the rest. I have had nothing but pleasant and helpfull experiences with M&A, and when I replaced my post ban barrel last fall, I bought my new one from them. I even went to the shop and picked it up, where they had it nicely wrapped and waiting for me. When I originally built it, there was a dentent pin and spring missing. I called the shop, and the secretary dropped it off at my house on her way home, and they even gave me a couple other parts in the little bag as well. Sorry if a board member had a bad experience with them in TX, but that Darth Vader crap is getting about as old as those glock kb'ing comments.

To say the pin failed because of it coming from M&A is horse shit. Yup, Horse Shit. As with any machine made of metal, there is always a chance for a piece to fail. If they didn't they wouldn't sell ez-outs, tap kits, etc. If you even try to sell me on the idea that colt, rra, bushmaster goes as far as to scrutinize their disconnect pins or any other small parts for metalurgical perfection, I will tell you that you are out of your tree.




I never said it failed because it came from M&A.



No you did not. Our Wiz-Kid did.



That's because I have no faith in M&A's quality anymore. I actually have a set-up much like yours (mine's an M&A M4 kit w/ Oly lower) so I'm not just pulling this shit out of my ass

The safety is very notchy and gritty and swapping the detents doesn't help. The finish of the upper (not the anodizing, the actual aluminum surface) was very poor. There are dents, divots, scrapes, and places that look like they took a wire-wheel to it and then anodized over it. My biggest bitch about my kit was that they assembled my A2-uppered kit with an upper with M4 feed ramps in the upper, but with a standard barrel extension on the barrel. This left one hell of a lip that actually didn't affect anything for almost 2 cases of ammo. But when it did, I could only fire one shot at a time because the second round would jam into the exposed ramp of the barrel extension. The trained monkey assembling it should have been able to catch it, but that wasn't the case. I'd heard that M&A had decent CS (if you don't live in Texas) but the kit was over a year old and I had close to 2000rds through it so I just whipped out the dremel and fixed it.

I'll buy some rinky-dink things at some gunshows occasionally, but I'm not buying anything with their name on it.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 4:03:47 PM EST
From their site. ... so unless they are comitting major fraud, which I cannot believe LMT or Wilson would allow them to get away with....


Who makes your stuff?

Most of our uppers are from Lewis Machine and Tool (LMT) unless specified otherwise. Our barrels are Wilson Match Grade unless otherwise noted. LMT assembles, times, headspaces, and test fires each barreled upper (not every third or fifth one as some suppliers might) and all of the other parts included are from current US Govt contract machine shops. The same first rate US Govt contarctor that we have always used for the bolt/carrier assemblies is still our supplier. They prefer anonymity. While we absolutely stand by and attest to the above, know that most of our component parts are "sanitized", that is- without marks, for obvious reasons when you consider the nature of the needs of a large section of our customer base.

Wiz kid, sounds like they don't build anything. Sounds like your beef is with LMT not M& A. After reading your thread, I have to ask, How long did it take to notice the issues with the assembly? It sounded like you saw it right away and rather than addressing it, you just decided to shoot it and complain later when you had a failure. Is it the car dealership's fault if something is wrong with the car you buy from them, yet you never take it in to get the issue fixed? Were they rude directly to you?

Patriot, is LMT building everything for bushy, rra too? Doesn't sound like seconds from RRA as you claimed.

I believe, for the person who bought from Model 1 Sales instead, that these two shops are some how linked. Brothers or something. It was discovered and posted during the whole DarthVader thread. If this is the case the parts are probably the same. Their ads sure look similar.

Handy andy- The best way I have found to deal with them is to find what you want on line and call them. Pay them with credit card, (yes they can work the machine). and then go pick it up. They will let you in the front door, but don't expect to go in farther. I think this is due to insurance reasons. They are a mail order business not a storefront. As for how to get there, the address is posted on their site. That plus our friend mapqwest, you should be able to find them.

Link Posted: 4/14/2006 8:51:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2006 8:53:42 PM EST by WIZZO_ARAKM14]

Originally Posted By CosmicOne-Der:
From their site. ... so unless they are comitting major fraud, which I cannot believe LMT or Wilson would allow them to get away with....


Who makes your stuff?

Most of our uppers are from Lewis Machine and Tool (LMT) unless specified otherwise. Our barrels are Wilson Match Grade unless otherwise noted. LMT assembles, times, headspaces, and test fires each barreled upper (not every third or fifth one as some suppliers might) and all of the other parts included are from current US Govt contract machine shops. The same first rate US Govt contarctor that we have always used for the bolt/carrier assemblies is still our supplier. They prefer anonymity. While we absolutely stand by and attest to the above, know that most of our component parts are "sanitized", that is- without marks, for obvious reasons when you consider the nature of the needs of a large section of our customer base.

Wiz kid, sounds like they don't build anything. Sounds like your beef is with LMT not M& A. After reading your thread, I have to ask, How long did it take to notice the issues with the assembly? It sounded like you saw it right away and rather than addressing it, you just decided to shoot it and complain later when you had a failure. Is it the car dealership's fault if something is wrong with the car you buy from them, yet you never take it in to get the issue fixed? Were they rude directly to you?




But they still put their name on it. It's no different than CMT making parts for RRA. If something goes wrong, it will be RRA's problem because they sold it.

Since it was my first AR I just went out and shot it. It behaved for just over a year until the first Blastfest I went to in April or so of last year. That's when it went down the shitter. It was 100% obvious after I looked at it that the upper was the problem. It had only hiccupped on me a handful of times before and nothing drew my attention to the feedramps until the FTFeed's started.

Thankfully, I took a pic before I whipped out the Dremel.

*ETA* You can still see a fleck of copper on the right feedramp where the barrel extension meets the upper.


They simply used the wrong parts and with 1800rds through it up to that point, I fixed it myself.

Just my $.02. Spend your money where you wish.

I'm enjoying picking my parts piece by piece and building a rifle to my exact needs and wants, anyways, so I doubt I'll be buying another kit or complete upper, for that matter.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 10:14:41 PM EST
I remember that Blastfest that the MA M4upper started to fail. Last April right? I saw Wizzo dump some mags through it...and then it was like"Why is this only feeding only every other round?"

In their defense, the Colt bbl I put in a Bushy upper had the same problem, and I fixed it the same way. I guess M4 feedramps are actually worth a damn *Shrugs*
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 3:21:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By CosmicOne-Der:
From their site. ... so unless they are comitting major fraud, which I cannot believe LMT or Wilson would allow them to get away with....


Who makes your stuff?

Most of our uppers are from Lewis Machine and Tool (LMT) unless specified otherwise. Our barrels are Wilson Match Grade unless otherwise noted. LMT assembles, times, headspaces, and test fires each barreled upper (not every third or fifth one as some suppliers might) and all of the other parts included are from current US Govt contract machine shops. The same first rate US Govt contarctor that we have always used for the bolt/carrier assemblies is still our supplier. They prefer anonymity. While we absolutely stand by and attest to the above, know that most of our component parts are "sanitized", that is- without marks, for obvious reasons when you consider the nature of the needs of a large section of our customer base.

Wiz kid, sounds like they don't build anything. Sounds like your beef is with LMT not M& A. After reading your thread, I have to ask, How long did it take to notice the issues with the assembly? It sounded like you saw it right away and rather than addressing it, you just decided to shoot it and complain later when you had a failure. Is it the car dealership's fault if something is wrong with the car you buy from them, yet you never take it in to get the issue fixed? Were they rude directly to you?




But they still put their name on it. It's no different than CMT making parts for RRA. If something goes wrong, it will be RRA's problem because they sold it.

Since it was my first AR I just went out and shot it. It behaved for just over a year until the first Blastfest I went to in April or so of last year. That's when it went down the shitter. It was 100% obvious after I looked at it that the upper was the problem. It had only hiccupped on me a handful of times before and nothing drew my attention to the feedramps until the FTFeed's started.

Thankfully, I took a pic before I whipped out the Dremel.

*ETA* You can still see a fleck of copper on the right feedramp where the barrel extension meets the upper.
img.photobucket.com/albums/v702/WIZZO_ARAKM14/DCP_0529a.jpg

They simply used the wrong parts and with 1800rds through it up to that point, I fixed it myself.

Just my $.02. Spend your money where you wish.

I'm enjoying picking my parts piece by piece and building a rifle to my exact needs and wants, anyways, so I doubt I'll be buying another kit or complete upper, for that matter.

WIZZO



Is that an M4 cut receiver with standard rifle ramps or the other way around?
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:17:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
I remember that Blastfest that the MA M4upper started to fail. Last April right? I saw Wizzo dump some mags through it...and then it was like"Why is this only feeding only every other round?"



Yup that was the day.


Originally Posted By patriot73:

Is that an M4 cut receiver with standard rifle ramps or the other way around?



M4 reciever/standard rifle barrel extension.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 5:40:54 PM EST
I thought M&A moved out of Lake Zurich? I do not miss M&A one bit. I supported them in the past but no longer will due to several reasons. Mostly because of the employee attitudes.






Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:24:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bucky145:
I thought M&A moved out of Lake Zurich? I do not miss M&A one bit. I supported them in the past but no longer will due to several reasons. Mostly because of the employee attitudes.




Model 1 Sales moved out of IL down to Texas.

WIZZO
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