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Posted: 1/3/2012 7:10:31 AM EDT
Fleeing the People's Republic of Kommiefornia in 2 weeks for the free state of SC. Only took 28 years. All my toys are already there, well out of the reach of Jerry Brown et al.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 7:23:46 AM EDT
Take your white flag with you
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 7:50:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By caser:
Take your white flag with you


Ha ha. Keep telling yourself things will change here. This state is a lost cause. Anyone who thinks an influx and retention of gun owners or 2nd Amend. supporters will change things is dreaming. More people are leaving Kommiefornia than coming here. I refuse to "rearrange deck chairs on the Titanic".

The move isn't just about guns. Its about not having my child forced to learn about LGBT lifestyles; fewer people, less traffic. We could move to Northern Calif from San Diego to get away from traffic and people or move to the eastern part of the county but So. Cal. is really just coastal desert and we're tired of that. We like green trees, green grass and want a brick home on at least 5 acres. We won't get that here.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 9:37:21 AM EDT
Check your PMs.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 11:46:49 AM EDT

>> Ha ha. Keep telling yourself things will change here. This state is a lost cause. Anyone who thinks an influx and retention of
>> gun owners or 2nd Amend. supporters will change things is dreaming.

Really? True 2nd Amend litigation is in its young days yet - the clock only started ticking after McDonald v. Chicago (well, really Nordyke til en banc).

>> More people are leaving Kommiefornia than coming here. I refuse to "rearrange deck chairs on the Titanic".

Perhaps "baseline" people. Yeah, someone working at Joe's Brake Shop may find limited opportunites here. But if you think Google, Apple, or Genentech
or other world-class companies are gonna locate in SC you're nuts - unless they need an 800# call center, perhaps. ( But Indian accented English is sometimes
more understandable than that from deep South, which has stopped some call center operations from (re)locating in the south.)

>> Its about not having my child forced to learn about LGBT lifestyles;

Your kid is gonna see that anyway. Lotsa gays in the South, they just lisp differently.

And "free state" of SC?

Buddy visted there awhile back, said in many ways it was still a highly segregated 'slave state', veiled racism/stars'n'bars all over the place, etc.

There's a reason SC is cheap.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

Link Posted: 1/3/2012 12:39:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bwiese:

>> Ha ha. Keep telling yourself things will change here. This state is a lost cause. Anyone who thinks an influx and retention of
>> gun owners or 2nd Amend. supporters will change things is dreaming.

Really? True 2nd Amend litigation is in its young days yet - the clock only started ticking after McDonald v. Chicago (well, really Nordyke til en banc).

>> More people are leaving Kommiefornia than coming here. I refuse to "rearrange deck chairs on the Titanic".

Perhaps "baseline" people. Yeah, someone working at Joe's Brake Shop may find limited opportunites here. But if you think Google, Apple, or Genentech
or other world-class companies are gonna locate in SC you're nuts - unless they need an 800# call center, perhaps. ( But Indian accented English is sometimes
more understandable than that from deep South, which has stopped some call center operations from (re)locating in the south.)

>> Its about not having my child forced to learn about LGBT lifestyles;

Your kid is gonna see that anyway. Lotsa gays in the South, they just lisp differently.

And "free state" of SC?

Buddy visted there awhile back, said in many ways it was still a highly segregated 'slave state', veiled racism/stars'n'bars all over the place, etc.

There's a reason SC is cheap.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA



Your friend is delussional, its not a "slave state" even jokingly. I can name several places in San Diego County where you can find racism on par with anywhere in the South.
I guess BMW, Amazon.com, Boeing and Michelin to name a few aren't very big companies.

They're gays everywhere and that's fine. I harbor no ill will towards them but at least my daughter won't have to be force-fed the agenda in school. And by the way, the Stars and Bars is not about racism veiled or otherwise. If you like Kommiefornia then great, stay. Its just not what we want. But I do see you live in the garden spot of the state.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 1:18:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jimdvan:
I guess BMW, Amazon.com, Boeing and Michelin to name a few aren't very big companies.


Big companies, not high grade employees in those locations. They moved there because it was cheap,
not to get loads of smart innovative people. And you'll never see a biotech company move to a
Biblethumper state with an antievolution population.


And by the way, the Stars and Bars is not about racism veiled or otherwise.


People do like to say that BS. They're honoring racist traitors that we had to kill, burn & pillage to submission before they'd in
turn honor another man's right to live free just because he had a bit of a suntan. The mission wasn't complete until late 60s
when we had to send in Federal troops to ensure civil rights existed.

Stars'n'bars is a code word for "we really wanted things to be the way they were", including racism/segreation/civil rights violations.

Given that gun rights are civil rights, I often wonder how the South likes one but not the other even though they're indivisible. (Martin
Luther King's team was armed to the teeth to defend themselves from white southern violence - read book "Deacons of Defense".)


If you like Kommiefornia then great, stay. Its just not what we want. But I do see you live in the garden spot of the state.


Many things about it I don't like, but (1) I can compensate (earn more money to compensate for taxes), and (2) I'm staying here until/sol
gun laws are fixed, and I think we have a fair chance of doing that (Calguns Foundation, NRA/CRPA, 400K new black rifles in CA,
downsized DOJ BoF, etc.)

Good luck, though.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 3:31:25 PM EDT
I'm not looking to get into a pissin' contest with anyone. I don't know if you've ever lived in the South but I have. Yes, there is racism there; yes, some people wave the flag BECAUSE they're white; yes, there are uneducated people there; etc, etc. Everything you've criticized I can find in San Diego County or elsewhere in California.

What it boils down to is we like the climate and the topography and the people. With a resounding YES, people by and large are MUCH friendlier in the South than you will ever find in California. That's a fact. South Carolina is not perfect, no place is. But it is also not the left wing, nanny state this one has become. If you like that, more power to you. I don't, that's why I'm leaving.

I've been here 3 months shy of 29 years and this place has slid more and more to the left. Keep telling yourself it will change but this place is lost and its not coming back.
I'm just glad so few people want to move to SC, that's one reason I'm going there.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 3:51:05 PM EDT
Congrats on moving to a free state.

Have you ever noticed it's only Californians that get upset when someone moves to another state. They must be upset they haven't figured out how to move themselves.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 3:55:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bwiese:

People do like to say that BS. They're honoring racist traitors that we had to kill, burn & pillage to submission before they'd in
turn honor another man's right to live free just because he had a bit of a suntan.


Racist traitors?

I'm sure there were plenty of racist people in the South as there were also in the North at the time of the Civil War. But to call the southern people traitors is stepping over the line. In my opinion you are an ass!
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 6:33:27 PM EDT
OP you keep saying you can find that in San Diego County... Then why leave?

Plus most of what you are bringing up of San Diego County is most likely Santee (East County). Did you live there? That's the only place that Ive seen most of what your talking about.

I live in San Diego and my grass is green (maybe it green just because I'm hispanic)...

My guns are fine so what if I have to have 10 round clips/magz and a BB. This teaches us to pick our shots and make them count. Any dumbass can dump a hi-cap mag. But the thing is will they hit anything?

California laws are retarded yes. But we can cope with them. If your a law abiding citizen the laws don't bother you.

I'm not trying to be a dick but I'm glad we are losing a gun owner like you. You seem to high temp. There's always that one person that messes it up for everyone else and you seem like that guy.

I hope you and your family the best in SC. Hope you have a safe trip and enjoy the bad English.


_Lord_Of_War_
San Diego, CA
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 6:51:43 PM EDT
Congrats. I don't understand why Californians get so pissed when someone says they are escaping? Who fucking cares.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 7:03:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2012 7:11:59 PM EDT by Still_learning]
I have argued for years that leaving was not the correct approach. I still hold to that but now, I am not so sure.

The utter lack of representative government in this State disgusts me. Of course, I feel the same way about my Federal representatives. In all my years here in California, I believe there has not been one single person I voted for who was elected to office. The area I live in is too heavily Democratic, most of whom moved here from the east coast (NY, NJ, MA, DC,...) and brought their politics with them.

They have done to this State and my area the exact same things they did back there - the things I left hoping to get away from. Corporations are fleeing in the face of higher taxes and more restrictions in return for which they get - absolutely nothing. Housing values have taken a dive (in part) because of over-development and definitely because of job losses.

I no longer live in the State I moved to live in. I live somewhere else. When I retire, I may want to take another shot at finding a better place to live.

South Carolina, you say,...? Five acres, green grass and green trees,...? Where are you from, originally?
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 7:09:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hafpakcerts:
Originally Posted By bwiese:

People do like to say that BS. They're honoring racist traitors that we had to kill, burn & pillage to submission before they'd in
turn honor another man's right to live free just because he had a bit of a suntan.


Racist traitors?

I'm sure there were plenty of racist people in the South as there were also in the North at the time of the Civil War. But to call the southern people traitors is stepping over the line. In my opinion you are an ass!


They WERE traitors who fired upon their fellow countrymen. No revisionist history or wishful thinking will ever change that. Someone said it here a long time ago but it still holds true; the South wanted the war, the South started the war, the North ended the war. Get over it.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 7:11:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By _Lord_Of_War_:
I live in San Diego and my grass is green (maybe it green just because I'm hispanic)...


That's funny!

Is it racist if you say it about yourself? Probably yes, but you get a pass, in part, because it is funny.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 7:13:52 PM EDT
Oh boy, what happened? This didn't go as you may have envisioned... Good luck OP, I have lived in many places, worked and travelled in many, many more and I did like SC each time I was there so I am sure you will be fine. You and I just created an offset here in CA, I moved in last week so I'll take up the cudgels on your behalf.

After having lived and worked in five different countries and in several States within the US I can say with certainly that in America we have a choice as to where to live that is unlike anywhere else. Different climate, different laws, different politics, different racial make up, different school systems, different whatever the hell you want...you can get it all here, in this country.

My move to CA was at the behest of my new employer. I moved from CT, another State under siege and overall, taking everything into consideration, I won. Having said that I was an Indiana resident for fourteen years so I understand how gun owners here and in CT suffer badly. In Indiana I became what people would term as a redneck because I thoroughly enjoy the absolute freedom that "title" suggests. My goal is to help improve the situation here because this is my new home and I'll be damned if some bureaucrat is going to take away the things in life that I became accustomed to.

SC is a great place, you will certainly have the advantage of access to much more affordable property where you are not living on top of one another and life certainly runs at a different pace.

Link Posted: 1/3/2012 8:05:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WindKnot1-1:
They WERE traitors who fired upon their fellow countrymen. No revisionist history or wishful thinking will ever change that. Someone said it here a long time ago but it still holds true; the South wanted the war, the South started the war, the North ended the war. Get over it.


You might want to try a little reading. It might help your understanding.

South Carolina seceded from the Union. They called for the Union troops to leave Fort Sumter (as Union troops had done from other southern forts) as it was in their territory. The Union troops refused to leave. After ample warning the Union troops were forced out.

How could you call the South Carolinians traitors? How can you say they fired on their own countrymen?

South Carolina had seceded from the Union. They were no longer part of the Union. The Union troops in the Fort Sumter were not their fellow countrymen. If you think otherwise you might as well call George Washington a traitor as he fired on the British, his former countrymen.

I accept facts as they are and have nothing to get over. If you are looking for revisionist history or wishful thinking, you should check the mirror...right in front of you.

To jimdvan, congrats on your move.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 8:14:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2012 8:18:23 PM EDT by caser]
caduckgunner said:
Congrats. I don't understand why Californians get so pissed when someone says they are escaping? Who fucking cares.


we don't want to lose the good ones. that's why.

if a gun-grabber said they were leaving we would be glad.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 8:16:56 PM EDT
Good for you OP for escaping that beautiful rathole known as kalifornia!
My family left our native state in 93 when our kids were little and it was the best decision we ever made.
My kids are grown now, educated and successful and our rural homestead will be perfect someday, but it doesn't matter cause we ain't there!
I visit family often in Santa Cruz. Escondido and San Francisco and my thoughts are continually reinforced that we did good by leaving.
But Kalifornia is a helluva place to visit, especially if you can stay with relatives.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 8:49:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 8:51:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 9:00:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2012 9:02:14 PM EDT by 49north]
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 9:10:11 PM EDT
Wow, I didn't realize I was such a heal for leaving. You all act as if I am deserting your cause. I've lived all over the country and in Canada so I think I have a pretty well rounded view of the country.

Gun owners like me, huh? Wow, such hatered and you don't even know me or my views on guns. Very pretentious on your part, dick. You just revealed why a lot of people in this country think many Californian's are arrogant assholes.

For all of you who love Kommiefornia, my hat's off to you. My parents love it here, too. Good for them and good for you. I simply stated I'm leaving partly because of the leftist politics of this state. Never once did I insult anyone because they like it here. To each their own. But for some reason my happiness of leaving is offensive to some of you. Sounds like you're the people with a problem. Newsflash for you, Kalifornia is not the center of the universe. Get over yourselves. California is laid-back? Not even close.

Is South Carolina perfect? Hell no. There's many things I don't care for but like the Left Coast lovers here I can adapt there with far less of an offensive on my personal rights.

One guy was very right; who cares if I leave and why? I was simply sharing my news on a big change. Some of you act as if I was poking a stick at you. Get a thicker skin, its tough out there in the world.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 9:16:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By _Lord_Of_War_:
OP you keep saying you can find that in San Diego County... Then why leave?

Plus most of what you are bringing up of San Diego County is most likely Santee (East County). Did you live there? That's the only place that Ive seen most of what your talking about.

I live in San Diego and my grass is green (maybe it green just because I'm hispanic)...

My guns are fine so what if I have to have 10 round clips/magz and a BB. This teaches us to pick our shots and make them count. Any dumbass can dump a hi-cap mag. But the thing is will they hit anything?

California laws are retarded yes. But we can cope with them. If your a law abiding citizen the laws don't bother you.

I'm not trying to be a dick but I'm glad we are losing a gun owner like you. You seem to high temp. There's always that one person that messes it up for everyone else and you seem like that guy.

I hope you and your family the best in SC. Hope you have a safe trip and enjoy the bad English.


_Lord_Of_War_
San Diego, CA


I love how people can talk themselves into living with their choices being taken away a little at a time. The Germans did that in the 30's. Bad English? Do you go out here very often?
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 9:39:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul:
Bye - I use to live in South Carolina (Mathews) and hope you enjoy it.

The current ratio is now 43 to 2 coming to going. I figure a hell of a lot more people dance on the grave rather than admit to coming to California.

I too really don't understand the pride of leaving. You show up with a credit card, you sign the rental contract and you drive off a day or two later with the big truck full of your shit. Figure less than $150 a day milage depending. Not very hard so I'm not sure what's to be proud of but today's society rewards small things.




Paul, I'm lost as to what this part means. It took a whole fuck of a lot of effort on my part to move here. As I stated earlier, I have lived in many places and none of them involved just sticking my belongings in a van that I drove myself. We have a family, a house full of furniture and belongings, a dog and commitments to employers that need to be honored. The decision to move next door is big enough let alone across multiple State lines. If a person has reason to do so then that should be all the justification they need.

If someone finds that they are happier moving out of CA then my wishes are with them, the same as those moving in. I presume your figures are based on posts here that state "I'm leaving" or "I'm arriving". California has a lot to offer but it isn't any Holy Grail.



Originally Posted By Paul:
I am ever so amazed the number of outside California posters in here ... other forums don't see one tenth the number of visitors ... again puzzling.




You will have to excuse me for not taking the time to change my profile information, it hasn't been a priority given that I just got here, I'll get on it after I finish posting.


Link Posted: 1/3/2012 11:05:33 PM EDT
let's back up and I'll try to unring the bell. Here is my original statement:

"Fleeing the People's Republic of Kommiefornia in 2 weeks for the free state of SC. Only took 28 years. All my toys are already there, well out of the reach of Jerry Brown et al."

No where do I inject pride but rather a feeling of relief at leaving leftist politics. How this statement can be construed to assume I embrace racism or am commiting a traitorist act to others here or specifically insulting someone is beyond me. Maybe you should seek counseling if that's how you see it.

You don't like SC? Ok, but how is it I get flamed for wanting to go there? Is there some unspoken rule I missed when I moved here that thou shalt never speak ill of California because its the radest, most totally bitchin place ever? I guess I missed that one.

Funny how I thought I had a right to express my opinion about a place. Shame on me. Just so I understand; is it really a bad thing for me to feel there is somewhere better to live than California? Especially SC where people still own slaves; can't speak English,(at least the illegal Mexicans can); don't wear shoes; play banjos; hate anyone who's not white and from the area; drives a beat up Ford truck with the door wired shut but still manage to build BMW's, tires, aircraft, brick mansions, and many other low skilled endeavors I guess I could be happy there.

If you like l having a house on a postage stamp size lot 35 feet from both neighbors next door; like Santa Ana winds and constant dry air that makes your skin itch; everywhere you go is a concrete jungle of roadways and thousands of cars and even more people; if you can afford the 5 acres but its out in BFE and costs $700,000 and is nothing more than a large patch of dirt; the LGBT agenda is forced down your kid's throat at school because you won't do it at home; leftists more and more running things and you just go with the flow; taxes being constantly raised in one form or another; the rural areas burning every 3-5 years; now having to register your long guns; neighbors who see the moving truck in your driveway and ask if you're coming or going even though you've lived there 2 years then California might be for you.

If that's heaven to you then more power to you. For me its not so good so I'm leaving. If that somehow offends you for whatever reason then tough shit, get a life or a therapist.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 5:51:00 AM EDT
Good luck and Godspeed OP. Hate to see you go but I completely understand why.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 6:50:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bwiese:
Originally Posted By jimdvan:
I guess BMW, Amazon.com, Boeing and Michelin to name a few aren't very big companies.


Big companies, not high grade employees in those locations. They moved there because it was cheap,
not to get loads of smart innovative people. And you'll never see a biotech company move to a
Biblethumper state with an antievolution population.


And by the way, the Stars and Bars is not about racism veiled or otherwise.


People do like to say that BS. They're honoring racist traitors that we had to kill, burn & pillage to submission before they'd in
turn honor another man's right to live free just because he had a bit of a suntan. The mission wasn't complete until late 60s
when we had to send in Federal troops to ensure civil rights existed.

Stars'n'bars is a code word for "we really wanted things to be the way they were", including racism/segreation/civil rights violations.

Given that gun rights are civil rights, I often wonder how the South likes one but not the other even though they're indivisible. (Martin
Luther King's team was armed to the teeth to defend themselves from white southern violence - read book "Deacons of Defense".)


If you like Kommiefornia then great, stay. Its just not what we want. But I do see you live in the garden spot of the state.


Many things about it I don't like, but (1) I can compensate (earn more money to compensate for taxes), and (2) I'm staying here until/sol
gun laws are fixed, and I think we have a fair chance of doing that (Calguns Foundation, NRA/CRPA, 400K new black rifles in CA,
downsized DOJ BoF, etc.)

Good luck, though.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

For a smart man you sure are a dumbass sometimes.

Link Posted: 1/4/2012 2:28:32 PM EDT
I have no regrets about moving out of Calif. 13.5 years ago. My household expenses are less, my salary is much higher and I can own any type of firearm or accessory I want. Sorry but the Calif. I knew died 20+ years ago.

Calif., will require long gun registration starting next year? How sad.

OP, good luck with your move to SC, I like it there too.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 2:37:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 49north:
Good for you OP for escaping that beautiful rathole known as kalifornia!
My family left our native state in 93 when our kids were little and it was the best decision we ever made.
My kids are grown now, educated and successful and our rural homestead will be perfect someday, but it doesn't matter cause we ain't there!
I visit family often in Santa Cruz. Escondido and San Francisco and my thoughts are continually reinforced that we did good by leaving.
But Kalifornia is a helluva place to visit, especially if you can stay with relatives.


I completely agree! I have family in Fresno, Clovis, Kerman and SLO. Always a place to hang my hat for a nice visit. As long as I only bring my neutered firearms.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 2:40:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul:
I am ever so amazed the number of outside California posters in here ... other forums don't see one tenth the number of visitors ... again puzzling.



Paul, some of us have deep roots in Calif. I'm a 3rd generation native. Born and lived in Fresno county for 41 years and still have plenty of family there.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 2:46:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MikeSH:
Originally Posted By Paul:
I am ever so amazed the number of outside California posters in here ... other forums don't see one tenth the number of visitors ... again puzzling.



Paul, some of us have deep roots in Calif. I'm a 3rd generation native. Born and lived in Fresno county for 41 years and still have plenty of family there.


So taken and accepted I see. Greetings, brother.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 4:52:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2012 4:54:09 PM EDT by MikeSH]
Originally Posted By jimdvan:
Originally Posted By MikeSH:
Originally Posted By Paul:
I am ever so amazed the number of outside California posters in here ... other forums don't see one tenth the number of visitors ... again puzzling.



Paul, some of us have deep roots in Calif. I'm a 3rd generation native. Born and lived in Fresno county for 41 years and still have plenty of family there.


So taken and accepted I see. Greetings, brother.


And always willing to be tried again. Thank you Brother.

When you get out to SC be sure to look up our Brother and fellow arfcommer RusteeRooster.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:38:21 PM EDT
Congrats OP..

All these naysayers are just jealous.

I hope to be getting out in the next 6 months.

it's a lot more than just renting a truck to move, Paul. Perhaps, someone who is enlisted has an easy time moving, but when you need to find work before you can uproot your family, it isnt just a rental truck and on our way.

trust me, I'd be fucking gone already if that were the case...
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 11:38:13 AM EDT
We moved back to CA from VA about 11 months ago. It's interesting that I am finding more gun owners, shops, ranges, and shooters in CA than I ever did in VA. Hopefully this is a sign of changeing attitudes and will translate in changes in representation. I hope we can beat down these ridiculous laws, I really want to grip my pistol grip and drop a mag w/ out a tool from a supressed SBR before I am 40.
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 8:25:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GVShooter:
We moved back to CA from VA about 11 months ago. It's interesting that I am finding more gun owners, shops, ranges, and shooters in CA than I ever did in VA. Hopefully this is a sign of changeing attitudes and will translate in changes in representation. I hope we can beat down these ridiculous laws, I really want to grip my pistol grip and drop a mag w/ out a tool from a supressed SBR before I am 40.





wish there were more people like you. like MLK jr. said" i have a dream..." we all have that dream. lol
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 9:16:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bwiese:

People do like to say that BS. They're honoring racist traitors that we had to kill, burn & pillage to submission before they'd in
turn honor another man's right to live free just because he had a bit of a suntan. The mission wasn't complete until late 60s
when we had to send in Federal troops to ensure civil rights existed.



Your understanding of American history is severely lacking. Surprising to see that from such an educated man.
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 9:16:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By caduckgunner:
Congrats. I don't understand why Californians get so pissed when someone says they are escaping? Who fucking cares.


Jealousy.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 5:30:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jimdvan:
Fleeing the People's Republic of Kommiefornia in 2 weeks for the free state of SC. Only took 28 years. All my toys are already there, well out of the reach of Jerry Brown et al.


Congratulations!

I wish I could say I was surprised that your announcement would turn into a bunch of butthurt whining, but...

California is a great place to be from. I don't mind going back to visit every now and then, but I'm done with that state until an asteroid hits the Bay Area.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:54:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bassist:
Originally Posted By bwiese:

People do like to say that BS. They're honoring racist traitors that we had to kill, burn & pillage to submission before they'd in
turn honor another man's right to live free just because he had a bit of a suntan. The mission wasn't complete until late 60s
when we had to send in Federal troops to ensure civil rights existed.



Your understanding of American history is severely lacking. Surprising to see that from such an educated man.


I don't recall Bill ever sharing his educational history with us. He seems smart enough, to be sure, but not all intelligent people are educated.

And of course, not all educated people are particularly smart.

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:17:40 AM EDT
South Carolina seceded from the Union.


No, they tried to, but they were not successful.

After ample warning the Union troops were forced out.


In other, more forthright words, "After ample warning, the Confederate Army started a civil war they thought they would easily win."

"...you might as well call George Washington a traitor as he fired on the British, his former countrymen."


The founding fathers did regretfully revolt against their countrymen. They were not traitors, and I dont think the South were either. I believe they tried, in good legal faith, to secede. Nothing in writing expressly said they couldn't.

However, the winner imposes the rules, and the south lost utterly, so they were not successful in sesession. Their revolt failed. The north kicked their ass. And those are the facts.

The south is beautiful, and has much going for it, but not historical accuracy.

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 10:15:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By caser:
South Carolina seceded from the Union.


No, they tried to, but they were not successful.
At the time, they were not unsuccessful and had seceded.

After ample warning the Union troops were forced out.


In other, more forthright words, "After ample warning, the Confederate Army started a civil war they thought they would easily win."
Or in other equally more forthright words you could say "After not complying with a perfectly legal and reasonable request, the Union forced South Carolina to physically remove foreign troops from it's soil. I understand some people will not understand the right of South Carolina to secede from the Union. In my opinion, these people stand on the same moral ground as the husband who tells his divorce seeking wife "You can not leave and if you try, I will kill you and the kids."

"...you might as well call George Washington a traitor as he fired on the British, his former countrymen."


The founding fathers did regretfully revolt against their countrymen. They were not traitors, and I dont think the South were either. I believe they tried, in good legal faith, to secede. Nothing in writing expressly said they couldn't.
I agree with this, but not the adverb "regretfully." I am very happy our founding fathers not only declared independence, but also revolted against Great Britain.

However, the winner imposes the rules, and the south lost utterly, so they were not successful in sesession. Their revolt failed. The north kicked their ass. And those are the facts.
Agree 100%

The south is beautiful, and has much going for it, but not historical accuracy.
I have never been to the south, so I'll take your word for it.



Link Posted: 1/6/2012 10:39:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 2:21:19 PM EDT
Look at all the butt hurt because someone said they are leaving California!

and can anyone explain how this immediately turned into a racially fueled debat about the civil war? Just because the op is moving to SC?

It's also funny that people are trying to use racial tension and poor english against another state as if California does not contain any of these attributes. Although potentially frustrating, I would rather communicate with someone who uses poor grammar rather than someone who does not speak english at all... "Anything-other-than" is becoming the official language of California.

I didn't come in here to bash California (yes I still live here), but the whole tone of this thread and bashing of the OP is unwarranted, and some of these comments are completely left field...

To the OP, hope your moving process is free of troubles and goes smoothly.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 3:23:23 PM EDT
Good Luck Man. Do whats best for you and your family. Dont let the few arrigant ones and negative bs get to you for one sec. Over the 10 years on this board I have seen people say they are moving out of state and its the same old comments. And some of the same guys tooo. Too Much. Dont look back.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 4:50:25 PM EDT
jimdvan, good luck to you and your family in your new home. I wish you well.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:02:42 PM EDT
Jim, best of luck to you and your family.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 9:43:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hafpakcerts:
I agree with this, but not the adverb "regretfully."


the founding fathers regretted that they had to revolt.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:08:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By caser:
Originally Posted By hafpakcerts:
I agree with this, but not the adverb "regretfully."


the founding fathers regretted that they had to revolt.


Correct.

<–– American History major.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 1:16:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 1:51:04 AM EDT by js308]
Originally Posted By jimdvan:
Originally Posted By bwiese:

>> Ha ha. Keep telling yourself things will change here. This state is a lost cause. Anyone who thinks an influx and retention of
>> gun owners or 2nd Amend. supporters will change things is dreaming.

Really? True 2nd Amend litigation is in its young days yet - the clock only started ticking after McDonald v. Chicago (well, really Nordyke til en banc).

>> More people are leaving Kommiefornia than coming here. I refuse to "rearrange deck chairs on the Titanic".

Perhaps "baseline" people. Yeah, someone working at Joe's Brake Shop may find limited opportunites here. But if you think Google, Apple, or Genentech
or other world-class companies are gonna locate in SC you're nuts - unless they need an 800# call center, perhaps. ( But Indian accented English is sometimes
more understandable than that from deep South, which has stopped some call center operations from (re)locating in the south.)

>> Its about not having my child forced to learn about LGBT lifestyles;

Your kid is gonna see that anyway. Lotsa gays in the South, they just lisp differently.

And "free state" of SC?

Buddy visted there awhile back, said in many ways it was still a highly segregated 'slave state', veiled racism/stars'n'bars all over the place, etc.

There's a reason SC is cheap.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA



Your friend is delussional, its not a "slave state" even jokingly. I can name several places in San Diego County where you can find racism on par with anywhere in the South.
I guess BMW, Amazon.com, Boeing and Michelin to name a few aren't very big companies.

They're gays everywhere and that's fine. I harbor no ill will towards them but at least my daughter won't have to be force-fed the agenda in school. And by the way, the Stars and Bars is not about racism veiled or otherwise. If you like Kommiefornia then great, stay. Its just not what we want. But I do see you live in the garden spot of the state.


You are 100% correct. California children will be uneducated in Math and Science, but they will probably be able to name every person in history that has stood up for gay rights. The Leftist agenda is spreading like cancer that started with the school sytem.
Congrats on your move. Sometimes I contemplate doing the same. Don't see why my tax dollars should go toward free college tuition for illegals either. (See AB131)
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 1:22:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 1:38:19 AM EDT by js308]
Originally Posted By bwiese:
Originally Posted By jimdvan:
I guess BMW, Amazon.com, Boeing and Michelin to name a few aren't very big companies.


Big companies, not high grade employees in those locations. They moved there because it was cheap,
not to get loads of smart innovative people. And you'll never see a biotech company move to a
Biblethumper state with an antievolution population.


And by the way, the Stars and Bars is not about racism veiled or otherwise.


People do like to say that BS. They're honoring racist traitors that we had to kill, burn & pillage to submission before they'd in
turn honor another man's right to live free just because he had a bit of a suntan. The mission wasn't complete until late 60s
when we had to send in Federal troops to ensure civil rights existed.

Stars'n'bars is a code word for "we really wanted things to be the way they were", including racism/segreation/civil rights violations.

Given that gun rights are civil rights, I often wonder how the South likes one but not the other even though they're indivisible. (Martin
Luther King's team was armed to the teeth to defend themselves from white southern violence - read book "Deacons of Defense".)


If you like Kommiefornia then great, stay. Its just not what we want. But I do see you live in the garden spot of the state.


Many things about it I don't like, but (1) I can compensate (earn more money to compensate for taxes), and (2) I'm staying here until/sol
gun laws are fixed, and I think we have a fair chance of doing that (Calguns Foundation, NRA/CRPA, 400K new black rifles in CA,
downsized DOJ BoF, etc.)

Good luck, though.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA


Bill, have you ever been to the South? I think the California Sun has bleached your brain.
I am from the South, didn't know anyone one racist, my best friend was black and eveyone got along.
I never really experienced racism until I moved to Los Angeles. I can find more shady, uneducated, lazy, racist people living in Los Angeles that I could living in the South.
Sometimes I question your mental capabilities.
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