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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/1/2003 2:04:08 PM EDT
From what I understand, are suppresors legal in WA, but not legal to use? I've talked to a few leo's about this, and the usual answer is "no way, "silencers" are totally illegal" but I've also heard you can get one legally so long as you pay the tax, and go through the right channels. I'd love to get one legally! any comments? can someone who has a suppresor legally in WA help me out? Thanks, and whoohoo! this be muh furst powst!
Link Posted: 9/1/2003 4:16:07 PM EDT
Talk to DarkHelmet about it; I believe he has one. You are correct about being legal to own but not to use. They are also the only title 2 item that you can take across state lines with out paper work.

Wombat
Link Posted: 9/1/2003 6:50:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Juell:
From what I understand, are suppresors legal in WA, but not legal to use?



Juell,

Here is the law. Don't waste time asking cops what the law is, they will always tell you that you can't do something if they're not sure.

These are the guys to ask.
Link Posted: 9/1/2003 8:03:13 PM EDT
So, there isn't any special paperwork needed to complete the sale, lawfully? Is that right?
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 1:55:57 AM EDT
2Manchu,

There's lots of extra paperwork and plenty of time involved in purchasing a suppressor. Between the CLEO sign off (if you're not incorp.) and the paperwork trips back to ATF it takes awhile. For some folks incorp is the only way to go if they can't (some county agencies won't sign off) get a CLEO signature.
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 6:42:10 AM EDT
Wow, thanks for the info guys, makes me wonder if it would be worth it to jump through all those hoops THEN pay for the device, THEN the 200 bucks for the tax. Guess I'll just stick with earplugs for now!
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 4:32:24 PM EDT
And after jumping through all of the legal rules you still can't use it in Washington State.


Originally Posted By Juell:
Wow, thanks for the info guys, makes me wonder if it would be worth it to jump through all those hoops THEN pay for the device, THEN the 200 bucks for the tax. Guess I'll just stick with earplugs for now!

Link Posted: 9/5/2003 12:39:36 PM EDT
1. YES! They are legal

2. Correct! You can own it but you can't use it. Define use: Well the law states that it is unlawful to use any device or contrivance to muffle the report of a firearm. So can you attach it to the gun and not fire it.... so far as I can tell... yes you can.

3. There are owners, sellers, and even LEO's I know that will tell you that as long as it is properly papers they don't care and they won't tell if you shoot it in WA. Do so at your own risk. You won't get slapped with a felony but you will more than likely lose the can if caught.

Otherwise. Come on in and join the party. Suppressors are a lot of fun. And totally legal to use in many other nearby states (Oregon, Idaho, Montana (I think), Alaska). I tell people that your first can in any caliber other than .22LR will cost you about $1,000.

I purchased and SOS-45 from Gemtech for my first. The can was $595.00. $200 for tax. $150 for a threaded barrel and $50 to form a corp because I couldn't get a CLEO signoff. Personally I think the corp is the way to go. No figerprints and no photo hassle on the Form 4. For others it may not be the way to go. Investigate all the pros and cons and then decide for yourself.

In hindsight I really wished I had bought a .22LR can first. They are generally cheaper and can be put on a host or relatively inexpensive firearms. If you are looking for that "Hollywood" level of quiet then a .22LR with subsonic ammo is really the only way to do it. Anything larger will still have a noticeable level of sound to it.

There really is so much to go into on the subject that I don't have the time to type. But suppressors certainly are fun. I think everyone should have one.

Link Posted: 9/5/2003 12:42:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2003 12:43:12 PM EDT by DarkHelmet]

Originally Posted By Wombat:
...snip...
They are also the only title 2 item that you can take across state lines with out paper work.

Wombat



Nope... lets not forget AOW's. You can move those across state lines too. I've got an evil little Rem 870 factory AOW with a 14" barrel. It was a Secret Service contract overrun and one of the only factory 870 AOW's that is blued instead of parkerized. It is a fun little title 2 toy that IS legal to shoot in WA. And only a $5.00 tax stamp instead of $200.00
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 5:32:12 PM EDT
So you CAN legally own a suppresor, and an AOW in washington state, but it is ILLEGAL to use them? is there any good reason this is the law? Thats like saying you CAN own a kilo of cocaine, but ILLEGAL to use.
What on earth sense is that. So where can I get an AOW? legally BTW.
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 7:45:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2003 7:46:44 PM EDT by KA3B]
Stupid Washington State laws. They gun lobby in Washington State took the best deal they could back in 1994.

You can OWN both a silencer and an AOW in Washington.

You can not use the silencer in Washington, you can use the AOW to your hearts content.

Neither are mentioned by name in the RCW 9.41.190 and silencers are covered by the 1988 Washington state AG opinion.

http://www.leg.wa.gov/RCW/index.cfm?fuseaction=section§ion=9.41.190

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/agopinions/washington_ag_opinion_silencer.txt

Link Posted: 9/8/2003 1:04:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Stupid Washington State laws. They gun lobby in Washington State took the best deal they could back in 1994.

You can OWN both a silencer and an AOW in Washington.

You can not use the silencer in Washington, you can use the AOW to your hearts content.

Neither are mentioned by name in the RCW 9.41.190 and silencers are covered by the 1988 Washington state AG opinion.

http://www.leg.wa.gov/RCW/index.cfm?fuseaction=section§ion=9.41.190

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/agopinions/washington_ag_opinion_silencer.txt




Exactly, it is a very strange portion of law. Let me see if I can explain.

1. Whatever the law does not specifically forbid can be assumed to be legal. So it isn't really that the law says the you CAN have a suppressor. It is really that in the section that forbids machine guns (with exception), SBR, SBS, etc. It DOES NOT SAY that you cannot have a silencer. So by not saying it is illegal, it can be assumed that it is then legal.

2. The portion about them being illegal to use was obviously just a "tack on" to the section about dangerous weapons being outlawed. In the first portion of RCW 9.41.250 it outlaws the making and selling of slung shot, brass knuckles, switchblades, etc. The second part talks about "furtively carrying and dagger, dirk, etc. And finally the third part mentions "USE [emphasis added] and contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm."

So in essence what they are saying is "We never really said you could or couldn't have a suppressor, but we did say you couldn't use it."
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 1:07:09 PM EDT
Oh, and I forgot to add.... The same section that bars machine guns, SBR's, and SBS's and doesn't bar suppressors or AOW's also doesn't bar destructive devices. That is the other NFA weapon that we can have. So go ahead and buy a howitzer, or Street Sweeper, or in my case. I have my eye on a 40mm M203 for my M4
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 1:13:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2003 1:43:10 PM EDT by Tweak]
Better yet, and still on the stupid tip, you can own a smooth bore pistol (AOW) but not a sawed off shotgun. Only diff between them is how they're made.

Yep, sawed up shotguns are bad but grenade launchers are OK.

Well, I can't really disagree with that part.
Especially if you're shooting M576 MP loads.


More here
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 5:36:15 PM EDT
Is it true that each 40MM HE round is individually taxed?
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 10:23:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Boomer:
Is it true that each 40MM HE round is individually taxed?



Yes. The device itself (M203) is a Destructive Device (DD) as well as each individual round containing and explosive or chemical munition But you can purchase the chalk training rounds for about $175/20 and they are fun to shoot. I think you would be hard pressed to find 40mm HE rounds anyway. I have never seen them available. That gets pretty spendy when you figure an extra $200 tax per round plus the cost of the round. But it would be cool to have a couple just for SHTF/TEOTWAWKI purposes.

As for the AOW vs. Sawed Off Shotgun thing... Yeah it is kinda wierd. Essentially a shotgun is a shoulder fired weapon having a smooth bore. So if the receiver has EVER had a buttstock attached then it is a shotgun and cannot be made into an AOW. So you need to buy a "virgin" shotgun receiver. Have it 4473'ed to you from an FFL as a pistol and then put get the approved Form 1 (Application to make...) with your $200 stamp and then you can attach the pistol grip and any length barrel you want.

Interesting note that the tax for an individual to make an AOW is $200 but the tax to transfer one is only $5.

Ok... I'm done spewing knowledge you probably already knew anyway.

Oh... my latest Form 4 came back approved yesterday. I have another pretty blue stamp to add to my stamp collection and a Gemtech Vortex-2 .22LR can.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 5:36:24 PM EDT
So tell me, where can I get these goodies? or are they few and far between?
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 1:40:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2003 1:40:49 AM EDT by Tweak]

Originally Posted By DarkHelmet:
But it would be cool to have a couple just for SHTF/TEOTWAWKI purposes.



What's that old saying? "If you don't have it on the first day of the Revolution you will have it by the second day."


So you need to buy a "virgin" shotgun receiver. Have it 4473'ed to you from an FFL as a pistol and then put get the approved Form 1 (Application to make...) with your $200 stamp and then you can attach the pistol grip and any length barrel you want.


OR, buy one pre made.





Link Posted: 9/10/2003 10:52:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2003 10:53:25 AM EDT by DarkHelmet]

Originally Posted By Tweak:


OR, buy one pre made.
... snip...






That is exactly like mine in terms of grip and barrel length. Mine is blued though. They are a lot of fun. Just remember one thing... just because it says "Police Magnum" on the receiver does not mean it is a bright idea to shoot a three inch magnum one handed Terminator style. It was pretty amusing to watch my buddy almost break his wrist though.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 10:56:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Juell:
So tell me, where can I get these goodies? or are they few and far between?



They're all over the place! Can you believe that they have companies that do nothing but make these things by the dozen?!?! And there are even stores that will sell them to anyone that can pony up the money!!! The horrors.

No, but seriously. Try Wade's Eastside Gun in Bellevue. They are a stocking dealer of many Class III items and if they don't have the item you want in stock, then they can order it for you and get the paperwork rolling while you wait for it to arrive.
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 3:23:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2003 12:56:04 PM EDT by diverdown]
Anyone know offhand whether of not the sheriff here in Pierce County is inclined to sign off on NFA stuff?
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 3:13:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DarkHelmet:
1. YES! They are legal

2. Correct! You can own it but you can't use it. Define use: Well the law states that it is unlawful to use any device or contrivance to muffle the report of a firearm. So can you attach it to the gun and not fire it.... so far as I can tell... yes you can.

3. There are owners, sellers, and even LEO's I know that will tell you that as long as it is properly papers they don't care and they won't tell if you shoot it in WA. Do so at your own risk. You won't get slapped with a felony but you will more than likely lose the can if caught.

Otherwise. Come on in and join the party. Suppressors are a lot of fun. And totally legal to use in many other nearby states (Oregon, Idaho, Montana (I think), Alaska). I tell people that your first can in any caliber other than .22LR will cost you about $1,000.

I purchased and SOS-45 from Gemtech for my first. The can was $595.00. $200 for tax. $150 for a threaded barrel and $50 to form a corp because I couldn't get a CLEO signoff. Personally I think the corp is the way to go. No figerprints and no photo hassle on the Form 4. For others it may not be the way to go. Investigate all the pros and cons and then decide for yourself.

In hindsight I really wished I had bought a .22LR can first. They are generally cheaper and can be put on a host or relatively inexpensive firearms. If you are looking for that "Hollywood" level of quiet then a .22LR with subsonic ammo is really the only way to do it. Anything larger will still have a noticeable level of sound to it.

There really is so much to go into on the subject that I don't have the time to type. But suppressors certainly are fun. I think everyone should have one.




How did you set up the corporation for $50?
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