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Posted: 12/10/2003 8:04:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2003 1:18:22 AM EDT by diverdown]
Looking for an FFL who can do NFA tranfers in Western Washington.  Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Diver.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 8:16:45 PM EDT
Theres a few around, Wade's Eastside gunshop,
Sean Galt/SPG technologies in Seattle, Cascade Armory in Arlington,and "BeltFedBob" in Everett, can't think of Bob's last name, but have his card around here somewhere. Shoot me an email if ya need help tracking one down,
Sean,
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 11:27:39 PM EDT
Hey guys...just curious about class III? I thought that a civilian could not legally own a class 3 weapon in this state (machine gun).

Are these class 3 dealers just for law enforcement needs?
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 1:20:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NWRed:
Theres a few around, Wade's Eastside gunshop,
Sean Galt/SPG technologies in Seattle, Cascade Armory in Arlington,and "BeltFedBob" in Everett, can't think of Bob's last name, but have his card around here somewhere. Shoot me an email if ya need help tracking one down,
Sean,



Thanks Sean.  

I'll give Wade's a call tomorrow.  I thought they might still do NFA stuff but I wasn't sure.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 10:42:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2003 10:45:11 AM EDT by DarkHelmet]

Originally Posted By Blackgun_Fun:
Hey guys...just curious about class III? I thought that a civilian could not legally own a class 3 weapon in this state (machine gun).

Are these class 3 dealers just for law enforcement needs?



Civilians in WA can legally own Suppressors (Silencers) and AOW's (Any Other Weapons) and Destructive Devices (DD's -- like 40mm Grenade Launchers, M203/M79, Street Sweeper Shotguns, Howitzers, etc.) These weapons are all Class III weapons as well and must be transferred by a Class III dealer (or Class II manufacturer which can also deal as a Class III).

Examples of AOW's: www.autoweapons.com/products/othergoodstuff.html
Items like that Rem 870 or the Serbu Super Shorty area lot of fun and those, unlike silencers, can be USED in Washington.

Examples of DD's: www.autoweapons.com/products/destructivedevices.html


Edit to add: Machineguns, short barreled rifles and short barreled shotguns are not legal for private civilian ownership (with few exceptions). There is a very distinct difference between shotgun based AOW's (like the Rem 870 and Super Shorty) and Short Barreled shotguns. Read up and/or ask questions if you want to understand the difference.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 1:46:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 5:24:47 PM EDT by PhillipKP]
Exactly what is a SBR? Is there a minimun cutoff?

Would a semi-auto MP5 be illegal in WA?

Will we be able to own SBRs after the AW ban sunsets, or is this a permenant state law?
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:16:45 PM EDT
Exactly what is a SBR? Is there a minimun cutoff?

- A short barreled rifle, is a rifle that has a barrel length less than 16". Measuring the barrel length with the action fully closed to the end of the barrel (or permanently attached muzzle brake)

Would a semi-auto MP5 with a fixed buttstock qualify as an SBR in the state of WA?

-No it wouldn't

Will we be able to own SBRs after the AW ban sunsets, or is this a permanent state law?

- No SBR's in WA, is a state law. I would say "permanent" law because it could change. Like when hell freezes over.

It was a bit nipply in Spokane today...:)
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:32:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 5:25:25 PM EDT by PhillipKP]
Wow! I can't believe a semi-auto MP5 is legal in Washington.

Thats great news! Woo Hoo!
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:00:52 PM EDT
The semiauto "MP5" is a HK94, or the Speshul Weapons clone SW5, or some other cobbled together parts kit. The barrel must be 16" or longer ( with either a perm attached barrel extention or the actual barrel as BRJ alluded too)to be legal under the NFA (National Firearms Act)unless ya pay the tax and register it as a Short Barreled Rifle, which wouldnt be legal in the state of WA. NFA/Title2/Class3 stuff is confusing and the laws at the varying state and federal levels are convuluted at best. HTH
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 2:15:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DarkHelmet:

Edit to add: Machineguns, short barreled rifles and short barreled shotguns are not legal for private civilian ownership (with few exceptions).



Besides the Grandfather clause, what are the other exceptions?
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 4:08:59 PM EDT
RCW 9.41 (your exceptions :) )

(4) "Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length AND any weapon made from a rifle by any means of modification if such modified weapon has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

(6) "Short-barreled shotgun" means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length AND any weapon made from a shotgun by any means of modification if such modified weapon has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

(7) "Machine gun" means any firearm known as a machine gun, mechanical rifle, submachine gun, or any other mechanism or instrument not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot AND having a reservoir clip, disc, drum, belt, or other separable mechanical device for storing, carrying, or supplying ammunition which can be loaded into the firearm, mechanism, or instrument, AND fired there from at the rate of five or more shots per second.

(Emphasis added with the AND's)

So - an SBR/SBS "could" (I say could because
no one's tested it yet) be somewhat legal
because they use the word AND instead of OR which
means they have to have short barrels "AND" be
made from something that had a buttstock while
being overall less than 26" long.  So -
practically speaking,
this means you can have a buttstocked Rem 870
with a 10" barrel as long as over all it's
27".  Or perhaps a real short gripped Rem 870
with a 19" barrel as long as over all it's 27".

As for MG's - you must have a gun with a
magazine that won't remove AND it must fire
very slowly (less than 5 rds/second).  Again,
this has never been tested, but I suspect if
you wanted bad enough, you could buy a STEN
gun in say, Oregon, have the magazine welded
on, then permanently install a slow-fire
mechanism like those used on M11/9's - but made
REAL SLOW - like under 300 rds/min - then ask
to have it transferred to WA to be transferred
to you.  (Now understand, you can probably pull
the trigger on most any semi-auto faster than
that, but that's not the point, is it?  ;)  )
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 5:10:58 PM EDT
I spoke with a GI walking around WAC with a converted HK MP5K-PDW that was his personal gun several years ago. He had apparently won a court case regarding bringing privately owned NFA weapons into WA. His lack of choice to decide where he was stationed as a active duty member of the armed forces apparently was the deciding factor in his favor. He'd been stationed in KS IIRC previously and couldnt/wouldnt leave his gun behind, so he invested some time and fought the State ban in court and won, but this would only apply to active duty military personel stationed in WA long term. This is the only exception I'm aware for non NFA Dealer/manufacturers. HTH
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 2:58:04 PM EDT
Correct!  See the following section 2(a) & 3 :
Under 2(a) - he could be traveling to/from duty.
Under 3 - he could have owned it prior to 1994,
it doesn't say you had to own it in WA prior
to 1994 - which begs the question whether people
moving to WA could bring their MG's if they
owned them prior to 1994????   :)

2(b) just gives me all sorts of fantasies...

RCW 9.41.190
Unlawful firearms -- Exceptions.

(1) It is unlawful for any person to manufacture, own, buy, sell, loan, furnish, transport, or have in possession or under control, any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or to assemble or repair any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle.

    (2) This section shall not apply to:

    (a) Any peace officer in the discharge of official duty or traveling to or from official duty, or to any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or the state of Washington in the discharge of official duty or traveling to or from official duty; or

    (b) A person, including an employee of such person if the employee has undergone fingerprinting and a background check, who or which is exempt from or licensed under federal law, and engaged in the production, manufacture, repair, or testing of machine guns, short-barreled shotguns, or short-barreled rifles:

    (i) To be used or purchased by the armed forces of the United States;

    (ii) To be used or purchased by federal, state, county, or municipal law enforcement agencies; or

    (iii) For exportation in compliance with all applicable federal laws and regulations.

    (3) It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution brought under this section that the machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle was acquired prior to July 1, 1994, and is possessed in compliance with federal law.
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