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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 6/18/2003 6:39:17 AM EST
Just out of curiosity, how many of you are VCDL members. If you aren't a member, why aren't you? Just curious as to what the reasons are. I for one, took about a year to join after I had heard of VCDL, and another year or so before I became fairly active.

I'm not sure why I didn't join at first. Laziness, complacency...not money though. It's only $15 per year.

Link Posted: 6/18/2003 6:47:26 AM EST
Laziness Here.

I keep telling my self the next gun show!
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 8:22:13 AM EST
I joined back in Feb.
Have to make sure that I sent in my renewal in Sept!!

I haven't made any of the meetings, and I work weekends, so I don't have the time to volunteer to work the shows.

But hopefully, that will change this fall....
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 10:07:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/24/2003 4:16:07 AM EST by Chimborazo]
Please join! As Virginians, we cannot afford to let up now, as we have made a lot of progress (largely due to VCDL and key Delegates) with regard to VA's gun laws. Maybe next year we can get the Restaraunt Ban repealed, along with the other bills we couldn't get through this year.

And of course, get out there and vote!
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 6:12:54 PM EST
I will be honest, I am not one yet. I keep planning on doing so, but just haven't. I know I don't have a good excuse. I will be joining soon though.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 1:13:14 PM EST
I am, and I don't even have a concealed carry permit. To clarify, I also don't carry. Getting the thing is on the agenda, but keeps getting pushed out.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 5:46:59 PM EST
OK, I finaly got off my ass(so to speak) and just joined.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 3:32:32 AM EST
I actually had a reason I didn't join , but I forget what it is now.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 4:00:31 AM EST

Money well spent.

Link Posted: 6/20/2003 4:03:11 AM EST
OK,Guilt works-I did 1yr w/GOA too..
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 10:05:19 AM EST
Thanks for joining!

ANGST, if you think of it, let me know.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 3:24:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/22/2003 1:31:44 PM EST by Slacker]
I would have joined at the Richmond funshow but I spent every penny that I brought with me.
I'll be sure to join plus make a donation at the next one.

EDITED TO ADD: I propose this:
If the VCDL starts a petition to change the # of handguns that we can buy from 1 to three per 30 days, and it gets to the Governors desk, I'll donate $500 to the VCDL, and another $500 if it passes.
I've got a paid in full, S&W 586 sitting at Carrolton sportsman’s shop that I can't pick up for another 24 days...and its really pissing me off. I can't take possession of MY OWN PROPERTY because of some bullshit law.
Get it changed to three per 30 days and I'll donate One Thousand dollars.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 5:44:13 AM EST
I signed up for the newsletter and joined after I saw that the organization was active in changing a few VA laws.

Link Posted: 6/21/2003 3:18:54 PM EST
I am, and STILL don't get the damn emails....
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 5:34:00 PM EST

I've made it down to the Showplace gun shows a couple of times and always donated a few bucks to them at the door and also purchased a couple of raffle tickets. More importantly, I always read their literature and I think its a fantastic organization.

Do you think they would accept a little out of state support by accepting a NJ hostage as a member? (just because its $15 of mine that is well spent to keep a free zone alive within evac distance)
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 4:18:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/24/2003 4:27:48 AM EST by Chimborazo]
Slacker, I will certainly put forward your offer. I'm not sure, but I believe this is not something that VCDL has concentrated on because there were so many other things that were higher priority. I'd like to see it get changed too. I believe there is a form you can get signed off by VA State Police though to make that purchase. Give them a call and maybe you can get it sooner. Let me know what happens. Unfortunately, buying more than one handgun a month has never been issue for me!

bulldog1967, You can subscribe to VA-ALERT by sending an email to:


with ONLY the following text in the body of the message:

Subscribe va-alert

FMJunkie, thanks for your donations, and we'd love to have you as a member!
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 2:46:46 PM EST
I just joined through the website! (the thing that takes you to PayPal) Looking forward to getting my newsletters!
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 2:56:46 PM EST
great organization, I have been a member for a couple of years.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 5:13:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/23/2003 5:16:01 PM EST by VA-gunnut]

Originally Posted By FMJunkie:
I just joined through the website! (the thing that takes you to PayPal) Looking forward to getting my newsletters!

This wouldn't be pre-planning for an attempted escape from occupied territory?
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 9:43:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By FMJunkie:
I just joined through the website! (the thing that takes you to PayPal) Looking forward to getting my newsletters!

Welcome, and I bet you're the first NJ member!
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 10:32:06 AM EST
How much junk mail is involved after joining ?
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 10:40:02 AM EST
None! The newsletter comes out every quarter (I think) and if you sign up for VA-ALERT, you get an e-mail about once a week packed with good info. If you'd like, I can post the last one to give you an idea. During the legislative session, they are more frequent since so much is going on. However, you can unsubscribe at any time.

NONE of your information is sold or provided to any outside organizations.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 10:53:04 AM EST
Here is the last VA-ALERT:

VCDL Update 6/20/03

1. RSVP for the TWO VCDL picnics! We now have a speaker for Norfolk
2. Gun Shows!
3. VA Representative Tom Davis likes the AWB! :(
4. RTD article "Guns and Indians" draws your fire!


1. RSVP for the TWO VCDL picnics! We now have a speaker for Norfolk

If you are planning on attending one or both of VCDL's picnics to celebrate
the passing of HB 1516, please RSVP so we can make sure we have enough food!


For the Loudoun County picnic being held at Algonkian park on July 26
from 11 AM to 3 PM, RSVP with the number of people coming in your
party to:


EM Chip Fetrow is heading up the Loudoun picnic.
This should be a lot of fun - bring the whole family! Delegate Black
and Senator Cuccinelli will be speaking at 1 PM.

For information on the Algonkian park, click here:



For the Norfolk picnic, being held at Lakewood Park on August 9th
from 11 AM to 3 PM, RSVP with the number of people coming in your
party to:


Delegate Welch from Virginia Beach will be speaking at 1 PM.
Delegate Welch has tried unsuccessfully to get a bill passed to
protect someone who protects themselves in their home from civil or
criminal suits. Both times it passed the House by a huge margin,
only to die in a Senate committee :( I can't hardly wait for
election day.

There is a playground and other facilities, so bring the kids!

Oh, and I will be notifying the Norfolk police about the picnic later
in July so that they will be up-to-date on the new preemption law, in
case permit holders choose to carry (sorry non-permit holders - maybe
next year).


Note: alcohol is prohibited in both parks. No big deal, but there it is.

Help us make this a success with a nice turnout. Come meet have a
burger with your fellow VCDL activists, VCDL leadership, and some
pro-gun politicians.


2. Gun Shows!

VCDL is grateful to the following activists who helped at our booth in Dale
City: Mike Downey, Russ Barnes, Steve Oster, Bruce Jackson, Aric Sherwood,
Paul Tilson, Jr., Matt Tracey, Blaise Burry, and Wayne Robinson.

Thanks also to the following volunteers working this weekend in Bealeton:
Mark Powell, Franz Bailey, Matt Tracey, Mike Gering, Roger Sherman,
and Frank and Meg

When was the last time YOU helped VCDL? Please contact the listed
coordinator at a show near you and let him know you can help. No
experience necessary!

To find out more about upcoming gun shows in your area and learn about
volunteering, go to www2.vcdl.org/cgi-bin/wspd_cgi.sh/vcdl/gs.html
and click on any of the bold blue text.

1. RICHMOND, July 12-13 ( www.cegunshows.com ). Contact Omar Hassan at
centralvagunshows@vcdl.org to help in Richmond.

Saturday, Jul 12
9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m.
1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

Sunday, Jul 13
10:00 a.m. - 1:30 p.m.
1:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

2. DALE CITY, July 12-13 ( www.odgs.org/ ). Contact David Park at
Novagunshows@vcdl.org to help in Dale City.

Saturday, July 12
9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m.
1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

Sunday, July 13
9:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m.
12:30 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

3. SALEM, July 19-20 ( www.cegunshows.com ). Contact Stephen Ryan at
swvagunshows@vcdl.org to help in Salem.
Saturday, Jul 19
9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m.
1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

Sunday, Jul 20
10:00 a.m. - 1:30 p.m.
1:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

4. BEALETON, Aug 9-10 ( www.odgs.org/ ). Contact David Park at
Novagunshows@vcdl.org to help in Bealeton.

Saturday, August 9
9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m.
1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

Sunday, August 10
9:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m.
12:30 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

5. DALE CITY, Aug 16-17 ( www.odgs.org/ ). Contact David Park at
Novagnshows@vcdl.org to help in Dale City.

Saturday, August 16
9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m.
1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

Sunday, August 17
9:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m.
12:30 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

6. ROANOKE, (Showmasters, at the Roanoke Civic Center) Aug 23-24. Contact
Stephen Ryan at swvagunshows@vcdl.org

Saturday, August 23
9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m.
1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

Sunday, August 24
9:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m.
12:30 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.


3. VA Representative Tom Davis likes the AWB! :(

Many members have emailed me Representative Tom Davis' correspondence
with them on the upcoming Assault Weapon Ban sunset. Tom Davis
believes that guns that are cosmetically different from other guns
should only be owned by the government. Sometimes beauty - and
intelligence - are only skin deep. This, sadly, is what Tom Davis

As you know, the federal assault weapons ban was passed as part of
the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 and signed into
law on September 13, 1994. The bill bans, by name, the manufacture of 19
different weapons, and ammunition clips holding more than 10 rounds except
for military or police use. I have opposed efforts to repeal this ban in
the past and look forward to the working with my colleagues as we debate
reauthorization of the ban, which is set to expire on September 13, 2004.

...I also believe that the assault weapons ban is a reasonable
restriction on a specific class of weapon and
high-capacity magazines. I do not believe the rights of sportsmen,
hunters, collectors and those who own guns for protection are infringed
upon by restricting this class of weapon with multiple features to
maximize lethal effects not appropriate for any civilian use...

Link Posted: 6/24/2003 10:56:21 AM EST


4. RTD article "Guns and Indians" draws your fire!

EM Kay Stoen writes:

Readers flogged the Richmond newspaper for its "Guns and Indians" editorial,
which supported the "assault weapon" ban, while claiming it shouldn't cover
semi-auto hunting and sporting guns. The pro-rights comments of David Winkler,
James Jones, Jr., Thomas Robeson and Kay Stoen appear in Saturday's letters to
the editor:


Jun 14, 2003
Double-Barrel Response:
Readers Address Issues of Indians, Guns

Editor, Times-Dispatch: When I'm away I occasionally brag to folks what a great
newspaper we have. No doubt I will continue to do so. (I used to brag
about what
a great radio station we had here, but now that's history.)

However, I wish to address the question you posed in the editorial, "Guns &
Indians": "What everyday citizen needs an assault weapon?" I submit to you that
different folks have different ideas of pleasure and entertainment. I know
people who enjoy time spent "playing" with fully automatic small arms. They, of
course, do so in a safe place where there is neither danger nor noise
to disturb

If we base personal enjoyment on need, then we might well create a list of
things we don't have to have. Who needs movie theaters, golf clubs, and cars
with 300-horsepower engines? Who needs expensive jewelry or designer clothing
or, for that matter, homes with beautiful flowers and landscaping?

Possession of fully automatic small arms has been strongly regulated for about
the past 80 years, and I think that it is complete nonsense to ban the sale of
weapons only on the basis that they look like the regulated arms.

We truly enjoy a great many things in America that we certainly don't need.
David Winkler. hopewell.

I would like to respond to the editorial, "Guns & Indians." The assault-weapon
ban that President Bush failed to support has nothing to do with the sale or
possession of fully automatic weapons. The "assault" weapons in
question are all
semi-automatic, and have features that place them in that class such as slings,
bayonet lugs, high magazine capacity, flash suppressors, and muzzle brakes.
Automatic weapons are controlled under another set of laws that are not under
review under the sunset provision of the assault-weapon ban.

Automatic weapons are not banned outright, but they do require a prospective
owner to submit to an investigation, make a payment of a tax stamp (more than
$400 per each transfer of the weapon), and receive approval before the sale can
be completed. In the event of the death of the owner, the automatic weapon must
be secured until a new owner is approved. Please research this information and
report your findings correctly. James A. Jones, Jr. Chester.

I am somewhat confused by your editorial, "Guns & Indians." Are you referring
specifically to President Bush's support of the 1994 "Assault Weapons
Ban" or to
his general support for restriction of fully automatic weapons?

The so-called assault-weapons ban President Bush supposedly supports
has nothing
to do with fully automatic weapons. It has to do with assault-style
semi-automatic rifles and magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds.
Fully automatic or "Class 3" weapons have been restricted for many years. The
current 1994 ban does nothing to improve safety or decrease crime. It is an
infringement on the Second Amendment and should be allowed to expire.

I and all pro-gun organizations that I am familiar with would agree with the
positions you have outlined. Thomas N. Robeson. Yorktown.

Why do Virginia's Native Americans lack federal recognition? A news story said
it was because a white state official altered thousands of Indian
birth records.
Then the Bureau of Indian Affairs, which surely knew better, declared
our native
tribes extinct. This admitted fraud still rules U.S. policy. Another article
told of an Indian leader's priceless eagle feather headdress, which was
impounded and destroyed because, officially, Virginia has no Indians.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Objections to nonexistent casinos are vaporous as fog on the
Chickahominy. Greed
is why non-Indians oppose tribal recognition: greed for the Indians' land and
water, plus greed for the power to override tribal decisions and revoke tribal

Three, even four, wrongs still don't make a right.

Recognition of tribal rights can't depend on whether a tribe "needs"
recognition, or on whether outsiders object. Recognition is the only
way to stop
the arrogant, patronizing and persistent violations of Indians' civil rights.

Likewise, recognition of firearm rights can't depend on whether a
person "needs"
certain weapons. The "assault weapon" ban was never meant to save private
citizens from military guns. It was meant to grow until the citizens couldn't
own any guns at all. Mary Kay Stoen. richmond.

Link Posted: 6/24/2003 10:57:22 AM EST


As a member of the Virginia Council on Indians and the Monacan Indian Nation, I
would like to comment on your editorial, "Guns and Indians." It assumes,
erroneously, that all Indian tribes have such problems as lack of education,
poverty, and addiction. The Virginia tribes resent this inference,
because their
situation differs dramatically from the experience of tribes in other regions -
and not all of those are identical, either.

The Commonwealth did not permit public education of Indian people until 1963.
Any educational deficiencies among Virginia Indians are the fault of the
Commonwealth and not the people themselves. As a whole the Virginia Indian
population is no poorer than its non-Indian neighbors. Finally,
Virginia Indians
do not have a higher per capita rate of alcoholism, addiction, or social
dysfunction than the general population. They are not desperately in
need of the
services recommended by the editorial, and to suggest otherwise indicates a
stereotypical attitude that is unprofessional for the editorial board
of a large
urban paper.

It has been said repeatedly that the Virginia tribes will not be engaged in
gaming enterprises. They do not wish to participate in such enterprises, and
they are already precluded from engaging in casino gaming, the most lucrative
type, by state law.

Indians have contributed critical chapters to the Commonwealth's history and to
the history of this country. Had it not been for the Algonquin tribes in
Virginia and Massachusetts, we might all be speaking Spanish or French. We are
preparing to celebrate the 400th anniversary of the Jamestown Colony, but it is
inappropriate to do so without officially acknowledging, from both the federal
and state perspectives, the contributions of Virginia Indians. Karenne Wood.
Rockville, md.


VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL).
VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated to
defending the human rights of all Virginians. The membership considers the
right to keep and bear arms an essential human right.

VCDL web page: www.vcdl.org

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Link Posted: 6/24/2003 6:36:54 PM EST
Now you post it after having to read it in that horrible email font.
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 2:02:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By RobertM:
Laziness Here.

I keep telling my self the next gun show!

I did it today!!!

Thanks for all yor hard work Chimborazo
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 2:40:45 PM EST
I also joined on Saturday. Wanted a Polo-shirt but $25 was too rich for my blood. I'll get one eventually.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 8:41:49 AM EST
Thanks for joining guys!
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 6:53:21 PM EST
Joined a little less than a year ago. Working to become more involved this year, hopefully as work travel winds down. Until then, looking at shooting in the upcoming CMP shoot on 09 Aug.

BTW--Chimborazo, I joined after you introduced me to the org.
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