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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/13/2006 1:54:49 PM EDT
Like to get your thoughts on a few things.
I work 2 jobs, One pretty much requires me to carry a firearm, The other does not. I go straight from the first to the second. I remove my handgun after leaving the first, Lock it in the glovebox of my vehicle.
The second job or more to the point my MAIN job has in place a "blanket" no-firearms on company property policy. Up until recently this policy has been enforced with simple common sence, ie. "Went hunting this morning and came straight to work, rifle in my trunk" OKAY "Run down the halls with a loaded 12ga" NOT OKAY.....Simple
The new company policy is same as the old, Only now NO FIREARMS means NO FIREARMS!
I understand clearly that this company can set any policies it feels, And also understand that I would be violating policy by having a firearm in my vehicle. My questions are these:

Its difficult to work anywhere without people knowing your business, 10 years and its fairly well known Im a gunnut. What could stop someone from saying "Underdog has a gun in his Jeep"? Nothing of course, But what could the company legally do about it? The COMPANY couldnt search my vehicle, They couldnt call the cops, could they? the police couldnt search without a warrant and PC. Or could they? What would PC be?
Could PC be Underdog is violating VA state CCW laws by refusing to not have a concealed handgun, When asked not to on private property? Same if I came into your home and you asked me not to?
The only PC I can see would be someone with a personal vendetta claiming I threatened them in the parking lot, Cops come, Have PC, get a warrant, find gun....Screw Underdog

Another slant is this:
When I have to go to the post office, I remove my handgun in the vehicle, Do my business, Get back in my Jeep and restrap. Same with a courthouse or school. Technically still breaking the law, but reasonable. Right?
Or is it that my Vehicle is my Domain, My personal property? How can they have the right to search without violating my 4th ammendment rights?................Udog
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:32:31 PM EDT
Ok here is the deal with the private property. I deal with this all the time. They have the right to search anything on private property. You however have the right to refuse and take your vehicle off their lot. They can fire you for leaving work. Will they do this? Probably not unless you have something in your vehicle that is ILLEGAL. Can they call the police and have them do it? The police will not touch this sort of thing. Even if you have something illegal in your car the police will not search without probable cause. If you have a permit and all they are saying is that you have a gun then the police will not and can not do anything but escort you off the property for the employeer if they ask you to search and you refuse. Bottom line is this is a very very touchy subject for employeers. They can terminate you for whatever they want because it is employment at will but if your company policy sais the manager must catch you with it you are not obligated to show it to him and dont.

Post office - post office is a topic of hot debate. I would not worry too much if you are leaving it in the vehicle. From what I understand that in order for the part of the law to be enforcable there must be a notice on the door on the way in. This is the only law I know like that. Courts - the clerk will tell you in most cases to leave it in the car. I was stopped on the way to court last week and the officer asked me if I had my weapon and if I did to leave it in the vehicle when I went into court.

Cars are tricky because they have a diminished expectation of privacy due to the fact they are mobile and anyone can see into them. The va supreme court has withheald that warrentless searches are good including the trunk but only when probable cause exists. If the only thing you have is a firearm and you have a permit for it that isnt enough for probable cause. Now if you have a gun, an open beer, and a crack pipe sitting in the front of your car expect to get searched and taken to jail by even your job's security.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:39:18 PM EDT
Well, there are several complex questions there and I'm too simple to answer them properly, so here's my take on it. The last place I worked before moving to Virginia had the same no gun policy, but it was in the middle of nowhere and 90% of the employees were rednecks (takes one to know one). During deer season I would bet most of those people had a weapon in the vehicle. I did every day as I had a permit.

The point? I think it really depends on the company you work for as to whether or not they may decide to search your vehicle. What do the company's policies say? My current employer has it in writing that they can search me, my vehicle, my personal belongings looking for drugs if they suspect illegal drug use. There is nothing in writing about firearms on the property though.

I think what could bite you is the carrying on private property when you know they have a no firearms policy. While there are a lot of things that would have to happen to get to that point, it could be a possibility. Or, if the wrong person found out you could lose your job. Again, it depends on the written company policy. What is the punishment for having a firearm on the property? Probably termination. I believe a person can be charged with trespassing if carrying in a place that they are not supposed to be. That would mean the company could persue trespassing charges against you.

I'm NOT saying don't carry, far from it. Again this is my simple minded take on it. One thing of note, VCDL has a bill up this session that will do away with employers banning firearms locked in vehicles.

Good luck & be safe!
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:48:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 4:25:56 PM EDT by underdog75]
There's two company handbooks,.. One small overall handbook that every employee is issued. The second is a "Big black book" which every employee has access to. I havnt looked at the big one yet, wanted to get my facts straight first. The small handbook, when refering to searches, only speaks of employee lockers, Which are inside the building. Is it a state or federal law that employers can search employee vehicles that are on company property? Can you supply me with links to said code?

We have a flexable policy on Lunch breaks, pretty much anytime we wish. The only requirement is that if we leave company property for luch we must "Clock Out" while doing so. So if asked to provide consent to search I could always clock out and move my vehicle across the street. If the company is able to search are they required to recieve my consent before doing so? or would it be a deal like "Look what we fround in your vehicle"

I figured the police wouldnt touch it if I had a CCW. You say that the company also needs PC, PC that Im breaking company policy ?or breaking a law?.. The only law that would apply, Carrying when asked not to on private property, Is only a trasspassing charge. How can I tresspass when Im employed there?

Its assumed that having a firearm on company property is a terminal offense... The real question is how is my personal vehicle company property..............Udog

ETA: Im I wrong in even discussing CCW laws? Must the handgun be on my person, ie. not locked in a vehicle(even my own) that I am not currently sitting in for CCW laws to apply?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 4:52:21 PM EDT
No the company doesnt need PC they can request to search your vehicle. You dont have to let them and they could terminate you for that. However if they dont search everyones car and they dont have a good reason there could be problems.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 4:52:29 PM EDT
I don't think the police have any interest in enforcing any company's policy. If they do, then we need to correct that. It's a company administrative issue. I would say they can ask you to look in your vehicle until they are blue in the face, then just fire you and tell you to leave. At that point I imagine trespassing would come into play.

I really doubt any statute exists giving a corporate entity the authority to break into a personal vehicle for the purposes of a search. Sure they can ask, but can they really force entry into your vehicle because they thought you stole a pen, brought a pistol, ate a Big Mac?

Does the VA section covering concealed carry actually make it illegal to carry where posted by the property owner? When I read it (paragraph O, I believe), it sounded simply like a clarification, stating that the CHP doesn't give you any authority above that of the property owner to refuse your ability to carry.

Just my thoughts.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 5:06:27 PM EDT
Well you cant carry there but they cant charge you for it. They will ask you to leave and if you dont then it is trespassing. Just like it is hard to hit someone for trespassing that walks right under the sign.

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 5:18:24 PM EDT
Okay so to paraphrase:
1.Company can REQUEST to search my personal vehicle if vehicle is on company property
Company needs no reason to do so if they search everyones vehicles, Not going to happen. OR have a good reason, (PC) to only search mine.

2. I have the right to refuse consent.
If I refuse consent, Can I be fired for doing so? Guess I need to dig into the Big Handbook on this one.
If I refuse consent could I clock out and move my vehicle off company property? This would avoid being fired for leaving without notice, as it would be my lunch break:
Bigwigs:"Dog we want to search your jeep"
Me"No Sir, (Swipe) Im going to lunch"
Then just come back 30mins later without my vehicle?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:16:48 PM EDT
They can always fire you. VA is an "at will" state, meaning they can fire you for any reason without cause. Bummer, but look at the odds. What are the odds that they would ever ask to search your car? If somebody asks, deny. Deny, deny, deny. Did I mention, deny?

Oh yeah, one more thing. Do not EVER ask about this at work. Ever. Trust me on that one.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:50:03 PM EDT
YEh that is dont ask dont tell. If everyone knows you have guns and always has and as long as you dont talk about it at work or show it to people in the parking lot you shouldnt have a problem. Also PC for a company could be as simple as some person saying "bob has a gun in his car" and then you are in for it. Although they can fire you at will I dont think many places would. It tends to be bad for them if they fire someone for exersising their rights. If they do then I would suggest suing the snot out of them. Also check to see more information about the zoning. If your company is in a shopping mall or so forth or a leased building then the lot might not fall under company property. Most likely they will not be versed in these sorts of things and it is a huge liability risk to do a search. If there is security personel there and they are trained or have arrest powers then more than likely their security policy will not include searching cars. I will tell you this- searching vehicles is considered a risk no matter what and requires training. Your boss (say he does IT repair) should never just say "I am gona go search a car" because he is not trained for that. If he damages something or anything goes wrong that is big time liabilty and under the circumstances it isnt unreasonable for a person who doesnt have anything in their car to say "no" when joe the fat guy in the back gets ready to search his or her car.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 8:58:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 8:58:55 PM EDT by LevelEdge]

Originally Posted By cliffy109:
They can always fire you. VA is an "at will" state, meaning they can fire you for any reason without cause. Bummer, but look at the odds. What are the odds that they would ever ask to search your car? If somebody asks, deny. Deny, deny, deny. Did I mention, deny?

Oh yeah, one more thing. Do not EVER ask about this at work. Ever. Trust me on that one.



a big +1 on this.

Let me also add, is always better to know more about your coworkers than they know about you.

Given the Valley's unemployment rate I wouldn't worry about it too much, I think you have the right idea, if you sense trouble get your vehicle off of company property, quickley and quietly, and deny everything.

the NRA is fighting this very issue out right now with Conocophillips, Weyerhaeuser, et Al.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 9:01:54 PM EDT
Most big corporation all have a blanket no weapons policy. That policy is in place due to insurance needs.

Is parking off of your employer's property an option? No harm no foul there.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 9:56:18 PM EDT
Parking off property while a pain is an option, I thought of doing that as sort of a protest/awareness program so to speak. When everyone asks me why im walking to work I'll say "Because im not comfortable with our company superseding my 4th ammendment rights and protect me with a $7/hour unarmed gaurd that is either asleep or drunk"
99% of the employees couldnt tell you what the 4th means dispite actively exercising there 1st every freekin minute of the day
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 2:16:19 AM EDT
If they only have one unarmed guard that is drunk he will not be searching anything. They might still try and gank you if you park off property and say that. This one is best to just not say anything.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 11:47:31 AM EDT
It's actually legal for a CCW licensee to have their firearm on the campus of a public school. It can't leave the vehicle though.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:34:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KogaShuko:
Ok here is the deal with the private property. I deal with this all the time. They have the right to search anything on private property. You however have the right to refuse and take your vehicle off their lot. They can fire you for leaving work. Will they do this? Probably not unless you have something in your vehicle that is ILLEGAL. Can they call the police and have them do it? The police will not touch this sort of thing. Even if you have something illegal in your car the police will not search without probable cause. If you have a permit and all they are saying is that you have a gun then the police will not and can not do anything but escort you off the property for the employeer if they ask you to search and you refuse. Bottom line is this is a very very touchy subject for employeers. They can terminate you for whatever they want because it is employment at will but if your company policy sais the manager must catch you with it you are not obligated to show it to him and dont.

Post office - post office is a topic of hot debate. I would not worry too much if you are leaving it in the vehicle. From what I understand that in order for the part of the law to be enforcable there must be a notice on the door on the way in. This is the only law I know like that. Courts - the clerk will tell you in most cases to leave it in the car. I was stopped on the way to court last week and the officer asked me if I had my weapon and if I did to leave it in the vehicle when I went into court.

Cars are tricky because they have a diminished expectation of privacy due to the fact they are mobile and anyone can see into them. The va supreme court has withheald that warrentless searches are good including the trunk but only when probable cause exists. If the only thing you have is a firearm and you have a permit for it that isnt enough for probable cause. Now if you have a gun, an open beer, and a crack pipe sitting in the front of your car expect to get searched and taken to jail by even your job's security.



This is the first time I have heard anything about carrying in a post office. There is no mention of it being restricted here:

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/cjis_cwp.htm

Am I misunderstanding the discussion here?
Can you clarify why I should leave my weapon in my car (or worse, at home?)

Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 3:33:17 AM EDT
If you are concerned about this question, contact your deledgate and Senator and ask them to support HB 162, introduced by Delegate Scott Lingamfelter. It is basically the same as the OK law that prohibits employers from banning guns in parking lots.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 5:16:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kcobean:

This is the first time I have heard anything about carrying in a post office. There is no mention of it being restricted here:

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/cjis_cwp.htm

Am I misunderstanding the discussion here?
Can you clarify why I should leave my weapon in my car (or worse, at home?)

Thanks.



You're looking at a state web site to learn about Federal law. That's the mistake. I don't have the aplicable statute handy, but if you do an archive search in the handgun forum, you'll find lots of info. There is actually some dispute on this because the Federal statute does ban guns in the post office but has an exception for hunting and other "lawful use". Bottom line is, if you're caught in a Post Office, you could quickly become a test case for this law.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 10:41:54 AM EDT
Thank you for the clarification sir.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 1:28:47 PM EDT
HB 162 looks to be very helpful in my case,.. My google-fu is weak, Please point me to the State or Federal law that allows Private or Public companys that right to request to search my private vehicle.........Udog
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:07:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 8:10:18 PM EDT by kcobean]
.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:14:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By underdog75:
Parking off property while a pain is an option, I thought of doing that as sort of a protest/awareness program so to speak. ...


Super bad idea!

Your company’s certainly not going to change anything so you don’t have to walk as far to work - and you’re drawing attention to yourself. In no time at all you’ll have idiot co-workers thinking you’re a potential workplace shooter.

Suggest the following:

Tell absolutely no one that you’ve got a firearm in your car. IMHO, if you tell anyone, you deserve to get caught!!

Put your firearm in a separate locked container in your truck (I don’t know, but a locked glove compartment might not even be legal storage in a moving vehicle).

Make absolutely sure no one sees you put it in or remove it from the car.

Minimize the possibility of someone breaking into your vehicle by always locking all the doors, having nothing of value (CD’s, etc.) visible, and parking in the safest possible area. Also, make sure there is nothing visible that might suggest there’s a firearm in the vehicle (say loose ammo or such).

Never consent to a search by a police officer.

The company’s more of a problem since in theory they can fire you if you refuse consent. If your employer catches you with a fiream, you might be able to get away with claiming you accidentally left it in the car this one time and you’ve never done it before.

Incidentally, I don’t know of any laws saying companies can search a private vehicle parked on their property. That may be more along the line of various court rulings saying that company’s have that right.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:26:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kcobean:
... This is the first time I have heard anything about carrying in a post office. ...


Next time you visit the PO, look for the sign prohibiting firearms. It’ll make reference to the appropriate law.

Leaving it in the car in the parking lot should be fine (though arguably not legal since you’re on federal property) – just make sure no one sees you handling it in the vehicle.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:19:50 AM EDT
from some site talking about the post office ban. In summary, it's legal to carry in post office.

A couple of pertinent code sections were omitted from the sign


The sign referenced section (l) but not (p)
Section (p)(2) states these rules and regulations do not
supercede any federal, state, or local laws.
Note: I am in Virginia. There are no local or state laws
prohibiting firearms at a postal facility. Your area may differ.

From 39 CFR 232.1(p)(2):

(p) Penalties and other law.
(2) Whoever shall be found guilty of violating the rules and
regulations in this section while on property under the charge and
control of the Postal Service is subject to fine of not more than $50 or

imprisonment of not more than 30 days, or both. Nothing contained in
these rules and regulations shall be construed to abrogate any other
Federal laws or regulations of any State and local laws and regulations
applicable to any area in which the property is situated.



The sign referenced sections (a) and (b), but failed to mention (d)
Section (d)(3) states the prohibiting sections of the law (section (a))
do not apply to someone with a lawful purpose for having the firearm.

From Title 18 USC Section 930 (d)(3):

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to -
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal
facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.


from www.dt-concepts.com/index.html >Miscellaneous >Post Office Carry. They wont let you make a link to www.dt-concepts.com/pocarry.html for some reason


You may read the complete versions of these documents below

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 39, Volume 1]
[Revised as of July 1, 2003]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 39CFR232.1]

[Page 56-60]

TITLE 39--POSTAL SERVICE


CHAPTER I--UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE

PART 232--CONDUCT ON POSTAL PROPERTY--Table of Contents

Sec. 232.1 Conduct on postal property.

(a) Applicability. This section applies to all real property under

the charge and control of the Postal Service, to all tenant agencies,
and to all persons entering in or on such property. This section shall
be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property.


[[Page 57]]

(b) Inspection, recording presence. (1) Purses, briefcases, and
other containers brought into, while on, or being removed from the
property are subject to inspection. However, items brought directly to a

postal facility's customer mailing acceptance area and deposited in the
mail are not subject to inspection, except as provided by section 274 of
the Administrative Support Manual. A person arrested for violation of

this section may be searched incident to that arrest.
(2) Vehicles and their contents brought into, while on, or being
removed from restricted nonpublic areas are subject to inspection. A
prominently displayed sign shall advise in advance that vehicles and

their contents are subject to inspection when entering the restricted
nonpublic area, while in the confines of the area, or when leaving the
area. Persons entering these areas who object and refuse to consent to

the inspection of the vehicle, its contents, or both, may be denied
entry; after entering the area without objection, consent shall be
implied. A full search of a person and any vehicle driven or occupied by

the person may accompany an arrest.
(3) Except as otherwise ordered, properties must be closed to the
public after normal business hours. Properties also may be closed to the
public in emergency situations and at such other times as may be

necessary for the orderly conduct of business. Admission to properties
during periods when such properties are closed to the public may be
limited to authorized individuals who may be required to sign the

register and display identification documents when requested by security
force personnel or other authorized individuals.
(c) Preservation of property. Improperly disposing of rubbish,
spitting, creating any hazard to persons or things, throwing articles of

any kind from a building, climbing upon the roof or any part of a
building, or willfully destroying, damaging, or removing any property or
any part thereof, is prohibited.
(d) Conformity with signs and directions. All persons in and on

property shall comply with official signs of a prohibitory or directory
nature, and with the directions of security force personnel or other
authorized individuals.
(e) Disturbances. Disorderly conduct, or conduct which creates loud

and unusual noise, or which obstructs the usual use of entrances,
foyers, corridors, offices, elevators, stairways, and parking lots, or
which otherwise tends to impede or disturb the public employees in the

performance of their duties, or which otherwise impedes or disturbs the
general public in transacting business or obtaining the services
provided on property, is prohibited.
(f) Gambling. Participating in games for money or other personal

property, the operation of gambling devices, the conduct of a lottery or
pool, or the selling or purchasing of lottery tickets, is prohibited on
postal premises. This prohibition does not apply to the vending or

exchange of State Lottery tickets at vending facilities operated by
licensed blind persons where such lotteries are authorized by state law.
(See Domestic Mail Manual 123.351 and 123.42; Administrative Support

Manual 221.42; Regional Instructions, Part 782, section IV G 2c.)
(g) Alcoholic beverages, drugs, and smoking.
(1) A person under the influence of an alcoholic beverage or any
drug that has been defined as a ``controlled substance'' may not enter

postal property or operate a motor vehicle on postal property. The
possession, sale, or use of any ``controlled substance'' (except when
permitted by law) or the sale or use of any alcoholic beverage (except

as authorized by the Postmaster General or designee) on postal premises
is prohibited. The term ``controlled substance'' is defined in section
802 of title 21 U.S.C.
(2) Smoking (defined as having a lighted cigar, cigarette, pipe, or

other smoking material) is prohibited in all postal buildings and office
space, including public lobbies.
(h) Soliciting, electioneering, collecting debts, vending, and
advertising. (1) Soliciting alms and contributions, campaigning for

election to any public office, collecting private debts, soliciting and
vending for commercial purposes (including, but not limited to, the

[[Page 58]]

vending of newspapers and other publications), displaying or

distributing commercial advertising, soliciting signatures on petitions,
polls, or surveys (except as otherwise authorized by Postal Service
regulations), and impeding ingress to or egress from post offices are

prohibited. These prohibitions do not apply to:
(i) Commercial or nonprofit activities performed under contract with
the Postal Service or pursuant to the provisions of the Randolph-
Sheppard Act;
(ii) Posting notices on bulletin boards as authorized in

Sec. 243.2(a) of this chapter;
(iii) The solicitation of Postal Service and other Federal military
and civilian personnel for contributions by recognized agencies as
authorized by the Manual on Fund Raising Within the the Federal Service,

issued by the Chairman of the U.S. Civil Service Commission under
Executive Order 10927 of March 13, 1961.
(2) Solicitations and other actions which are prohibited by
paragraph (h)(1) of this section when conducted on Postal Service

property should not be directed by mail or telephone to postal employees
on Postal Service property. The Postal Service will not accept or
distribute mail or accept telephone calls directed to its employees

which are believed to be contrary to paragraph (h)(1) of this section.
(3) Leafleting, distributing literature, picketing, and
demonstrating by members of the public are prohibited in lobbies and
other interior areas of postal buildings open to the public. Public

assembly and public address, except when conducted or sponsored by the
Postal Service, are also prohibited in lobbies and other interior areas
of postal building open to the public.
(4) Voter registration. Voter registration may be conducted on

postal premises only with the approval of the postmaster or installation
head provided that all of the following conditions are met:
(i) The registration must be conducted by government agencies or
nonprofit civic leagues or organizations that operate for the promotion

of social welfare but do not participate or intervene in any political
campaign on behalf of any candidate or political party for any public
office.
(ii) Absolutely no partisan or political literature may be

available, displayed, or distributed. This includes photographs,
cartoons, and other likenesses of elected officials and candidates for
public office.
(iii) The registration is permitted only in those areas of the

postal premises regularly open to the public.
(iv) The registration must not interfere with the conduct of postal
business, postal customers, or postal operations.
(v) The organization conducting the voter registration must provide

and be responsible for any equipment and supplies.
(vi) Contributions may not be solicited.
(vii) Access to the workroom floor is prohibited.
(viii) The registration activities are limited to an appropriate

period before an election.
(5) Except as part of postal activities or activities associated
with those permitted under paragraph (h)(4) of this section, no tables,
chairs, freestanding signs or posters, structures, or furniture of any

type may be placed in postal lobbies or on postal walkways, steps,
plazas, lawns or landscaped areas, driveways, parking lots, or other
exterior spaces.
(i) Photographs for news, advertising, or commercial purposes.

Except as prohibited by official signs or the directions of security
force personnel or other authorized personnel, or a Federal court order
or rule, photographs for news purposes may be taken in entrances,

lobbies, foyers, corridors, or auditoriums when used for public
meetings. Other photographs may be taken only with the permission of the
local postmaster or installation head.
(j) Dogs and other animals. Dogs and other animals, except those

used to assist persons with disabilities, must not be brought upon
postal property for other than official purposes.
(k) Vehicular and pedestrian traffic. (1) Drivers of all vehicles in
or on property shall be in possession of a current and valid state or

territory issued driver's license and vehicle registration, and the
vehicle shall display all current

[[Page 59]]

and valid tags and licenses required by the jurisdiction in which it is
registered.

(2) Drivers who have had their privilege or license to drive
suspended or revoked by any state or territory shall not drive any
vehicle in or on property during such period of suspension or
revocation.

(3) Drivers of all vehicles in or on property shall drive in a
careful and safe manner at all times and shall comply with the signals
and directions of security force personnel, other authorized
individuals, and all posted traffic signs.

(4) The blocking of entrances, driveways, walks, loading platforms,
or fire hydrants in or on property is prohibited.
(5) Parking without authority, parking in unauthorized locations or
in locations reserved for other persons, or continuously in excess of 18

hours without permission, or contrary to the direction of posted signs
is prohibited. This section may be supplemented by the postmaster or
installation head from time to time by the issuance and posting of

specific traffic directives as may be required. When so issued and
posted such directives shall have the same force and effect as if made a
part hereof.
(l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may

carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either
openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for
official purposes.
(m) Nondiscrimination. There must be no discrimination by

segregation or otherwise against any person or persons because of race,
color, religion, national origin, sex, age (persons 40 years of age or
older are protected), reprisal (discrimination against a person for

having filed or for having participated in the processing of an EEO
complaint--29 CFR 1613.26l-262), or physical or mental handicap, in
furnishing, or by refusing to furnish to such person or persons the use

of any facility of a public nature, including all services, privileges,
accommodations, and activities provided on postal property.
(n) Conduct with regard to meetings of the Board of Governors. (1)
Without the permission of the chairman no person may participate in,

film, televise, or broadcast any portion of any meeting of the Board or
any subdivision or committee of the Board. Any person may electronically
record or photograph a meeting, as long as that action does not tend to

impede or disturb the members of the Board in the performance of their
duties, or members of the public while attempting to attend or observe a
meeting.
(2) Disorderly conduct, or conduct which creates loud or unusual

noise, obstructs the ordinary use of entrances, foyers, corridors,
offices, meeting rooms, elevators, stairways, or parking lots, or
otherwise tends to impede or disturb the members of the Board in the
performance of their duties, or members of the public while attempting

to attend or observe a meeting of the Board or of any subdivision, or
committee of the Board, is prohibited.
(3) Any person who violates paragraph (n) (1) or (2) of this section
may, in addition to being subject to the penalties prescribed in

paragraph (p) of this section, be removed from and barred from
reentering postal property during the meeting with respect to which the
violation occurred.
(4) A copy of the rules of this section governing conduct on postal

property, including the rules of this paragraph appropriately
highlighted, shall be posted in prominent locations at the public
entrances to postal property and outside the meeting room at any meeting
of the Board of Governors or of any subdivision or committee of the

Board.
(o) Depositing literature. Depositing or posting handbills, flyers,
pamphlets, signs, poster, placards, or other literature, except official
postal and other Governmental notices and announcements, on the grounds,

walks, driveways, parking and maneuvering areas, exteriors of buildings
and other structures, or on the floors, walls, stairs, racks, counters,
desks, writing tables, window-ledges, or furnishings in interior public

areas on postal premises, is prohibited. This prohibition does not apply
to:

[[Page 60]]

(1) Posting notices on bulletin boards as authorized in
Sec. 243.2(a) of this chapter;
(2) Interior space assigned to tenants for their exclusive use;

(3) Posting of notices by U.S. Government-related organizations such
as the Inaugural Committee as defined in 36 U.S.C. 721.
(p) Penalties and other law. (1) Alleged violations of these rules
and regulations are heard, and the penalties prescribed herein are

imposed, either in a Federal district court or by a Federal magistrate
in accordance with applicable court rules. Questions regarding such
rules should be directed to the regional counsel for the region
involved.

(2) Whoever shall be found guilty of violating the rules and
regulations in this section while on property under the charge and
control of the Postal Service is subject to fine of not more than $50 or

imprisonment of not more than 30 days, or both. Nothing contained in
these rules and regulations shall be construed to abrogate any other
Federal laws or regulations of any State and local laws and regulations

applicable to any area in which the property is situated.
(q) Enforcement. (1) Members of the U.S. Postal Service security
force shall exercise the powers of special policemen provided by 40
U.S.C. 318 and shall be responsible for enforcing the regulations in

this section in a manner that will protect Postal Service property.
(2) Local postmasters and installation heads may, pursuant to 40
U.S.C. 318b and with the approval of the chief postal inspector or his

designee, enter into agreements with State and local enforcement
agencies to insure that these rules and regulations are enforced in a
manner that will protect Postal Service property.
(3) Postal Inspectors, Office of Inspector General Criminal

Investigators, and other persons designated by the Chief Postal
Inspector may likewise enforce regulations in this section.

[37 FR 24346, Nov. 16, 1972, as amended at 38 FR 27824, Oct. 9, 1973; 41
FR 23955, June 14, 1976; 42 FR 17443, Apr. 1, 1977; 43 FR 38825, Aug.

31, 1978; 46 FR 898, Jan. 5, 1981. Redesignated and amended at 46 FR
34330, July 1, 1981; 47 FR 32113, July 26, 1982; 53 FR 29460, Aug. 5,
1988; 54 FR 20527, May 12, 1989; 57 FR 36903, Aug. 17, 1993; 57 FR

38443, Aug. 25, 1992; 63 FR 34600, June 25, 1998]



TITLE 18 > PART I
CHAPTER 44
> Sec. 930. Prev


Sec. 930. - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal
facilities


(a)

E­xcept as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or
causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal
facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so,

shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or
both.

(b)

Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in
the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present

such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to
do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5
years, or both.

(c)

A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection

(a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility
involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or
conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections

1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.

(d)

Subsection (a) shall not apply to -

(1)

the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or
employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision

thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the
prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of
law;

(2)

the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal

official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is
authorized by law; or

(3)

the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal
facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.


(e)

(1)

Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or
causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts
to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2

years, or both.

(2)

Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph
(1) or (2) of subsection (d).

(f)

Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States

to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating,
restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any
building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any
grounds appurtenant to such building.


(g)

As used in this section:

(1)

The term ''Federal facility'' means a building or part thereof owned or
leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly
present for the purpose of performing their official duties.


(2)

The term ''dangerous weapon'' means a weapon, device, instrument,
material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is
readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that

such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2
1/2 inches in length.

(3)

The term ''Federal court facility'' means the courtroom, judges'
chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference

rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United
States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole
offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.


(h)

Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted
conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and
notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public

entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be
convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a
Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility,
unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the

case may be


Link Posted: 1/26/2006 10:02:18 AM EDT
you say you have a jeep? what kind? get you a tuffy security console if thats an option. then just lock your gun in that and say "im sorry i dont have the key to that. i bought it used and the previous owner lost the keys." if they cant gain access they cant search can they? im willing to bet they wont try to pry it open. distruction of private property is still a crime in Va.
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