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Posted: 6/25/2012 2:23:48 PM EDT
[#1]
lol, going to be fun to watch the replies on this one.
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Posted: 6/25/2012 3:12:57 PM EDT
[#2]
§ 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.
It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William. The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. The exemptions set forth in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section. (1991, c. 570; 1992, c. 790; 2003, c. 976; 2004, c. 995; 2005, c. 160; 2007, c. 813.) |
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Posted: 6/25/2012 5:12:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Nothing good can come of this.
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Posted: 6/26/2012 1:40:27 AM EDT
[#4]
Thank you Squid.
If I read that correctly, it seems if one has a concealed permit in VA, you are OK to carry a legally owned evil black rifle. It also seems that if you don't have a concealed permit, you can carry a 5 shot bolt gun, a 12 gauge combat shotgun that can only hold 7 rounds or less of 3 inch Magnums, and a Ruger 10/22 with a 30 round magazine? It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public, etc. etc. etc. |
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Posted: 6/26/2012 4:04:07 AM EDT
[#5]
Why on earth would anyone want to do this?
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Posted: 6/26/2012 4:18:30 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Why on earth would anyone want to do this? The quotes in the newspapers usually are something like "Well cuz its legal! I don't care if it downright terrifies other people and makes gun owners look like extremists!!! This is UH-merka!". Or something to that effect. |
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Posted: 6/26/2012 5:52:06 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Why on earth would anyone want to do this? I am usually never more than a few feet from a rifle of some kind. If shooting is needed, I am grabbing that as opposed to a handgun. |
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Posted: 6/26/2012 6:08:37 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Why on earth would anyone want to do this? Because I prefer to carry a rifle while hiking instead of a handgun. ETA: Oh, also because I can. And because I'm not some Maryland pussy transplant who is still ashamed about carrying a firearm or some other lame ass bullshit. |
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Posted: 6/26/2012 6:17:45 AM EDT
[#9]
In!
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Posted: 6/26/2012 6:23:20 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why on earth would anyone want to do this? Because I prefer to carry a rifle while hiking instead of a handgun. ETA: Oh, also because I can. And because I'm not some Maryland pussy transplant who is still ashamed about carrying a firearm or some other lame ass bullshit. Not sure where you are hiking, but if Federal land, might check the Fed Laws too. If you have CHP, you are generally covered on Fed Land in VA, but need to watch being confused as Hunting / Poaching during off hunting season. Also, you will be hassled in certain counties and can result in legal fees at your expense. I dont think anyone was accussing you of being a wuss, but more of being smart about the decisions you make during certain situations. |
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Posted: 6/26/2012 6:25:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why on earth would anyone want to do this? Because I prefer to carry a rifle while hiking instead of a handgun. ETA: Oh, also because I can. And because I'm not some Maryland pussy transplant who is still ashamed about carrying a firearm or some other lame ass bullshit.  Oh snap!
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Posted: 6/26/2012 6:36:15 AM EDT
[#12]
this:
and my VCDL "Guns SAVE Lives" magnet are great ways to educate all the Marylander's that are traveling here in NOVA (Loudoun County) that they are in a FREE state. |
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Posted: 6/26/2012 7:01:05 AM EDT
[#13]
just FYI on the pickup truck gun racks.
I knew a guy who was killed when he had a wreck and his rifle barrel hit him just right in the back of the head and killed him. just something to keep in mind with those pickup truck rifle racks. |
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Posted: 6/26/2012 8:09:33 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
just FYI on the pickup truck gun racks. I knew a guy who was killed when he had a wreck and his rifle barrel hit him just right in the back of the head and killed him. just something to keep in mind with those pickup truck rifle racks. There was also a Trooper killed from a rifle..... I think the story was that a tow truck was picking up a wrecked truck and the rifle fell out and discharged, and the round struck him in the chest... ETA - found the story. I dont believe the gun was in a rack....not sure though - http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1298&dat=20060408&id=KYw1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=qggGAAAAIBAJ&pg=4546,2221986 |
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Posted: 6/26/2012 8:31:54 AM EDT
[#15]
Check DGIF rules also.
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Posted: 6/26/2012 11:43:52 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
just FYI on the pickup truck gun racks. I knew a guy who was killed when he had a wreck and his rifle barrel hit him just right in the back of the head and killed him. just something to keep in mind with those pickup truck rifle racks. There was also a Trooper killed from a rifle..... I think the story was that a tow truck was picking up a wrecked truck and the rifle fell out and discharged, and the round struck him in the chest... ETA - found the story. I dont believe the gun was in a rack....not sure though - http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1298&dat=20060408&id=KYw1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=qggGAAAAIBAJ&pg=4546,2221986 Sounds to me like it was loaded, condition one, and hidden. (stolen too it seems) If a rifle is in my rack, it is unloaded, and while I'd prefer to not have an accident with a rifle in the rack, I can't predict when / where I would. The only thing I can do is drive as safe as possible when I do have one in my rack. |
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Posted: 6/26/2012 12:12:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
just FYI on the pickup truck gun racks. I knew a guy who was killed when he had a wreck and his rifle barrel hit him just right in the back of the head and killed him. just something to keep in mind with those pickup truck rifle racks. There was also a Trooper killed from a rifle..... I think the story was that a tow truck was picking up a wrecked truck and the rifle fell out and discharged, and the round struck him in the chest... ETA - found the story. I dont believe the gun was in a rack....not sure though - http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1298&dat=20060408&id=KYw1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=qggGAAAAIBAJ&pg=4546,2221986 Sounds to me like it was loaded, condition one, and hidden. (stolen too it seems) If a rifle is in my rack, it is unloaded, and while I'd prefer to not have an accident with a rifle in the rack, I can't predict when / where I would. The only thing I can do is drive as safe as possible when I do have one in my rack. you could probably make some sort of relatively cheap latching device to close over it, not locking but just a latch that'd retain it in case of accident. You may be the best driver in the world, but there are a million morons who arent! i've been in 4 accidents in the last 3 years, two job related so they dont really count, but not one of em was anywhere near my fault. |
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Posted: 6/26/2012 2:48:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
just FYI on the pickup truck gun racks. I knew a guy who was killed when he had a wreck and his rifle barrel hit him just right in the back of the head and killed him. just something to keep in mind with those pickup truck rifle racks. There was also a Trooper killed from a rifle..... I think the story was that a tow truck was picking up a wrecked truck and the rifle fell out and discharged, and the round struck him in the chest... ETA - found the story. I dont believe the gun was in a rack....not sure though - http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1298&dat=20060408&id=KYw1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=qggGAAAAIBAJ&pg=4546,2221986 Sounds to me like it was loaded, condition one, and hidden. (stolen too it seems) If a rifle is in my rack, it is unloaded, and while I'd prefer to not have an accident with a rifle in the rack, I can't predict when / where I would. The only thing I can do is drive as safe as possible when I do have one in my rack. you could probably make some sort of relatively cheap latching device to close over it, not locking but just a latch that'd retain it in case of accident. You may be the best driver in the world, but there are a million morons who arent! i've been in 4 accidents in the last 3 years, two job related so they dont really count, but not one of em was anywhere near my fault. I don't think a latch would hold it. You pull a lot of G's in an accident. I had a buddy that got in a head on collision and his keys pulled the key ring straight. Gun in a rack would probably rip out of the mounts. |
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Posted: 6/26/2012 3:22:28 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
just FYI on the pickup truck gun racks. I knew a guy who was killed when he had a wreck and his rifle barrel hit him just right in the back of the head and killed him. just something to keep in mind with those pickup truck rifle racks. There was also a Trooper killed from a rifle..... I think the story was that a tow truck was picking up a wrecked truck and the rifle fell out and discharged, and the round struck him in the chest... ETA - found the story. I dont believe the gun was in a rack....not sure though - http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1298&dat=20060408&id=KYw1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=qggGAAAAIBAJ&pg=4546,2221986 Sounds to me like it was loaded, condition one, and hidden. (stolen too it seems) If a rifle is in my rack, it is unloaded, and while I'd prefer to not have an accident with a rifle in the rack, I can't predict when / where I would. The only thing I can do is drive as safe as possible when I do have one in my rack. you could probably make some sort of relatively cheap latching device to close over it, not locking but just a latch that'd retain it in case of accident. You may be the best driver in the world, but there are a million morons who arent! i've been in 4 accidents in the last 3 years, two job related so they dont really count, but not one of em was anywhere near my fault. I don't think a latch would hold it. You pull a lot of G's in an accident. I had a buddy that got in a head on collision and his keys pulled the key ring straight. Gun in a rack would probably rip out of the mounts. True... Hm. |
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Posted: 6/27/2012 7:00:26 AM EDT
[#20]
I guess all those police officers firearm mounts rip out when they get into accidents too? :P
While I would not trust this particular gun rack in anything more than a bumper to bumper, there are racks that bolt in that I'm sure could take the G forces associated with an accident. |
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Posted: 6/27/2012 7:06:50 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
I guess all those police officers firearm mounts rip out when they get into accidents too? :P While I would not trust this particular gun rack in anything more than a bumper to bumper, there are racks that bolt in that I'm sure could take the G forces associated with an accident. The cruiser racks are bolted in and lock the gun in place. The typical hanging racks are neither of these. |
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Posted: 6/27/2012 7:45:33 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I guess all those police officers firearm mounts rip out when they get into accidents too? :P While I would not trust this particular gun rack in anything more than a bumper to bumper, there are racks that bolt in that I'm sure could take the G forces associated with an accident. The cruiser racks are bolted in and lock the gun in place. The typical hanging racks are neither of these. +1, my AR and 870 are in a rack bolted in 8 places to a the steel shield of my cruiser, and the locking mechanisms are damn ridiculously strong. |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 7:31:17 AM EDT
[#23]
Why on earth would anyone want to do this?[/quote]
The quotes in the newspapers usually are something like "Well cuz its legal! I don't care if it downright terrifies other people and makes gun owners look like extremists!!! This is UH-merka!". Or something to that effect.[/quote] I have no immediate plans on running around my neighborhood with a black rifle and a bayonet in my mouth, just wanted to know the law regarding it. And to those with "other" comments, please return to GD; this is Hometown Virginia, where we treat each other with a modicum of decency and respect. |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 9:14:25 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why on earth would anyone want to do this? Because I prefer to carry a rifle while hiking instead of a handgun. ETA: Oh, also because I can. And because I'm not some Maryland pussy transplant who is still ashamed about carrying a firearm or some other lame ass bullshit. Not sure where you are hiking, but if Federal land, might check the Fed Laws too. If you have CHP, you are generally covered on Fed Land in VA, but need to watch being confused as Hunting / Poaching during off hunting season. Also, you will be hassled in certain counties and can result in legal fees at your expense. I dont think anyone was accussing you of being a wuss, but more of being smart about the decisions you make during certain situations. This would be my main concern. With a handgun and your CHP, you're good to go, but with a rifle, they might claim you're hunting. |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 1:06:08 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
This would be my main concern. With a handgun and your CHP, you're good to go, but with a rifle, they might claim you're hunting. Those laws have always pissed me off - they basically just presume that if I have a loaded rifle/shotgun with me and I'm anywhere near any sort of wildlife or woods or fields, I must be hunting. As though there is no other possible reason why I might have the gun with me ... 
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Posted: 6/28/2012 2:16:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
I don't think a latch would hold it. You pull a lot of G's in an accident. I had a buddy that got in a head on collision and his keys pulled the key ring straight. Gun in a rack would probably rip out of the mounts. i deal with accidents on a regular basis and i am going to call  on that. unless it was nothing more than a very thin piece of wire there is no way the weight/mass would be able to pull a standard keyring straight. keyrings are made from spring steel so it would take a lot more force to do that.
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Posted: 6/29/2012 8:57:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: So just for the sake of argument, does 'loaded' specifically mean a round in the chamber?Thank you Squid. If I read that correctly, it seems if one has a concealed permit in VA, you are OK to carry a legally owned evil black rifle. It also seems that if you don't have a concealed permit, you can carry a 5 shot bolt gun, a 12 gauge combat shotgun that can only hold 7 rounds or less of 3 inch Magnums, and a Ruger 10/22 with a 30 round magazine? It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public, etc. etc. etc. Does it apply to a loaded mag in the well and an empty chamber? Am I 'safe' with an empty chamber and magwell, but a loaded mag in a Redi-Mag? Can I argue complete compliance with an empty weapon but a loaded mag in a cargo pocket of my jeans? Just asking. |
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Posted: 6/30/2012 4:42:00 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So just for the sake of argument, does 'loaded' specifically mean a round in the chamber?
Thank you Squid. If I read that correctly, it seems if one has a concealed permit in VA, you are OK to carry a legally owned evil black rifle. It also seems that if you don't have a concealed permit, you can carry a 5 shot bolt gun, a 12 gauge combat shotgun that can only hold 7 rounds or less of 3 inch Magnums, and a Ruger 10/22 with a 30 round magazine? It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public, etc. etc. etc. Does it apply to a loaded mag in the well and an empty chamber? Am I 'safe' with an empty chamber and magwell, but a loaded mag in a Redi-Mag? Can I argue complete compliance with an empty weapon but a loaded mag in a cargo pocket of my jeans? Just asking. i'm not a lawyer, but i'd say you should be good to go with a loaded mag in a pocket. Probably 90% of the time you'd be good with the redi-mag if you can explain what it does to any LEO you interact with. The loaded mag and no round chambered... thats a toss up. depends upon the officer you get, the magistrate, and the judge if it goes that poorly. The question is, do you want to roll those dice? |
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Posted: 6/30/2012 5:28:24 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Thank you Squid. If I read that correctly, it seems if one has a concealed permit in VA, you are OK to carry a legally owned evil black rifle. It also seems that if you don't have a concealed permit, you can carry a 5 shot bolt gun, a 12 gauge combat shotgun that can only hold 7 rounds or less of 3 inch Magnums, and a Ruger 10/22 with a 30 round magazine? It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public, etc. etc. etc. The way I read it, a fixed stock AR with a 20rd magazine would be legal without a permit. |
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Posted: 6/30/2012 9:55:37 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So just for the sake of argument, does 'loaded' specifically mean a round in the chamber?
Thank you Squid. If I read that correctly, it seems if one has a concealed permit in VA, you are OK to carry a legally owned evil black rifle. It also seems that if you don't have a concealed permit, you can carry a 5 shot bolt gun, a 12 gauge combat shotgun that can only hold 7 rounds or less of 3 inch Magnums, and a Ruger 10/22 with a 30 round magazine? It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public, etc. etc. etc. Does it apply to a loaded mag in the well and an empty chamber? Am I 'safe' with an empty chamber and magwell, but a loaded mag in a Redi-Mag? Can I argue complete compliance with an empty weapon but a loaded mag in a cargo pocket of my jeans? Just asking. There is a case that recently was bumped up to Circuit Court on appeal because the judge ruled that a rifle in a backpack, with a 30-rd mag next to it wrapped in a towel was "loaded". The guy carrying it was wearing armor and had a loaded pistol with a CC permit. Everything legal as far as I can tell...just shady-feeling to the LEO that stopped him. While I cannot imagine this ruling being held up in Circuit Court, this guy is going to need to go through another trial, pay his attorney more etc. It can come down to how the judge feels about guns and what he had for breakfast. Be smart folks. |
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Posted: 6/30/2012 10:09:08 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: There is a case that recently was bumped up to Circuit Court on appeal because the judge ruled that a rifle in a backpack, with a 30-rd mag next to it wrapped in a towel was "loaded". The guy carrying it was wearing armor and had a loaded pistol with a CC permit. Everything legal as far as I can tell...just shady-feeling to the LEO that stopped him. While I cannot imagine this ruling being held up in Circuit Court, this guy is going to need to go through another trial, pay his attorney more etc. It can come down to how the judge feels about guns and what he had for breakfast. Be smart folks. How is it even going to trial if he has a CHP? Maybe what he really needs is a better lawyer? This should have been dismissed ASAP or different charges filed. The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. |
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Posted: 6/30/2012 10:11:13 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
There is a case that recently was bumped up to Circuit Court on appeal because the judge ruled that a rifle in a backpack, with a 30-rd mag next to it wrapped in a towel was "loaded". The guy carrying it was wearing armor and had a loaded pistol with a CC permit. Everything legal as far as I can tell...just shady-feeling to the LEO that stopped him. While I cannot imagine this ruling being held up in Circuit Court, this guy is going to need to go through another trial, pay his attorney more etc. It can come down to how the judge feels about guns and what he had for breakfast. Be smart folks. How is it even going to trial if he has a CHP? Maybe what he really needs is a better lawyer? This should have been dismissed ASAP or different charges filed. The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
there may have been other charges involved other than firearms related. who knows. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 12:56:28 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There is a case that recently was bumped up to Circuit Court on appeal because the judge ruled that a rifle in a backpack, with a 30-rd mag next to it wrapped in a towel was "loaded". The guy carrying it was wearing armor and had a loaded pistol with a CC permit. Everything legal as far as I can tell...just shady-feeling to the LEO that stopped him. While I cannot imagine this ruling being held up in Circuit Court, this guy is going to need to go through another trial, pay his attorney more etc. It can come down to how the judge feels about guns and what he had for breakfast. Be smart folks. How is it even going to trial if he has a CHP? Maybe what he really needs is a better lawyer? This should have been dismissed ASAP or different charges filed. The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
there may have been other charges involved other than firearms related. who knows. There were no other charges. His lawyer did everything right, pointing out everything in the statute to the judge and appealing when the ruling was handed down. It SHOULD have been dismissed, but wasn't... |
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Posted: 7/2/2012 12:12:20 AM EDT
[#34]
Where can we get the public documents on this one? I would like to see it for my own eyes-also where did it occur?
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Posted: 7/2/2012 4:34:38 AM EDT
[#35]
As a note on brandishing, I do recall the NPS brief on this issue in VA when the national park ban died said that rifles on slings was a-okay, but a rifle in your hands was not (unless you were about to use it for a good reason, of course).
So sling = holster. |
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Posted: 7/2/2012 5:48:22 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Until you have to climb over a fence, and then you're brandishing if anyone sees you with the weapon in your hand.As a note on brandishing, I do recall the NPS brief on this issue in VA when the national park ban died said that rifles on slings was a-okay, but a rifle in your hands was not (unless you were about to use it for a good reason, of course). So sling = holster. You know there's going to be a test case. |
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Posted: 7/2/2012 10:04:53 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Where can we get the public documents on this one? I would like to see it for my own eyes-also where did it occur? I have no idea how to get the documents, but it was in Norfolk. You might have to wait for the court of appeals decision sometime in the next month or two. |
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Posted: 7/2/2012 10:12:38 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Where can we get the public documents on this one? I would like to see it for my own eyes-also where did it occur? I have no idea how to get the documents, but it was in Norfolk. You might have to wait for the court of appeals decision sometime in the next month or two. You'd have to go to the court and ask to see the file. |
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Posted: 7/2/2012 10:15:19 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Until you have to climb over a fence, and then you're brandishing if anyone sees you with the weapon in your hand.
As a note on brandishing, I do recall the NPS brief on this issue in VA when the national park ban died said that rifles on slings was a-okay, but a rifle in your hands was not (unless you were about to use it for a good reason, of course). So sling = holster. You know there's going to be a test case. IIRC, the NPS document came out of the Fredericksburg battlefield and they probably don't want you climbing over their fence since it is special and all. |
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Posted: 7/2/2012 2:05:16 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Where can we get the public documents on this one? I would like to see it for my own eyes-also where did it occur? I have no idea how to get the documents, but it was in Norfolk. You might have to wait for the court of appeals decision sometime in the next month or two. You'd have to go to the court and ask to see the file. If someone can get specifics such as date time place, I will see if I can find it. News article? |
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Posted: 7/2/2012 5:08:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Where can we get the public documents on this one? I would like to see it for my own eyes-also where did it occur? I have no idea how to get the documents, but it was in Norfolk. You might have to wait for the court of appeals decision sometime in the next month or two. You'd have to go to the court and ask to see the file. If someone can get specifics such as date time place, I will see if I can find it. News article? Nothing in the news that I am aware of and, unfortunately, I do not remember the name or date of the case beyond that it was within the last five weeks and was brought under 18.2-287.4. As I said, I would be VERY surprised if the circuit court holds this up on appeal. |
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Posted: 7/4/2012 7:01:41 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Thank you Squid. If I read that correctly, it seems if one has a concealed permit in VA, you are OK to carry a legally owned evil black rifle. It also seems that if you don't have a concealed permit, you can carry a 5 shot bolt gun, a 12 gauge combat shotgun that can only hold 7 rounds or less of 3 inch Magnums, and a Ruger 10/22 with a 30 round magazine? It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public, etc. etc. etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the etc. etc. etc. is a pretty significant aspect of this statute. (a) and (b) only apply to the listed municipalities. |
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Posted: 7/4/2012 7:50:39 PM EDT
[#43]
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Where can we get the public documents on this one? I would like to see it for my own eyes-also where did it occur? I have no idea how to get the documents, but it was in Norfolk. You might have to wait for the court of appeals decision sometime in the next month or two. You'd have to go to the court and ask to see the file. If someone can get specifics such as date time place, I will see if I can find it. News article? Nothing in the news that I am aware of and, unfortunately, I do not remember the name or date of the case beyond that it was within the last five weeks and was brought under 18.2-287.4. As I said, I would be VERY surprised if the circuit court holds this up on appeal. I find that when this kind of thing happens the person telling the story (the convicted) left out something very important. This could be something like, he was a convicted felon, his CHP expired, he left his CHP at home, he really didnt have a CHP, pick one. Most likely he was charged with something else and they plead it down to this. He then read the code and he appealed the conviction after he saw it didnt meet the criteria never mind it was a plea. One thing to remember with an AR is that there is no firing pin safety. I always feel uneasy having it chambered and out of my direct control. |
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Posted: 7/5/2012 11:18:34 AM EDT
[#44]
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I find that when this kind of thing happens the person telling the story (the convicted) left out something very important. This could be something like, he was a convicted felon, his CHP expired, he left his CHP at home, he really didnt have a CHP, pick one. Most likely he was charged with something else and they plead it down to this. He then read the code and he appealed the conviction after he saw it didnt meet the criteria never mind it was a plea. One thing to remember with an AR is that there is no firing pin safety. I always feel uneasy having it chambered and out of my direct control. There could be more to the story, but it doesn't sound like a plea deal. I can't think of something that 18.2-287.4 would be the "lesser included" charge for. Also, plea doesn't matter - you can appeal to Circuit even if you plead guilty. Sometimes the "deal" will be that you plead in GDC and agree to not appeal, but I'm not sure that is enforceable. The AR has a floating firing pin but it would take an absurd amount of acceleration to generate enough force with that light firing pin to fire a cartridge. |
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Posted: 7/5/2012 11:20:49 AM EDT
[#45]
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I find that when this kind of thing happens the person telling the story (the convicted) left out something very important. This could be something like, he was a convicted felon, his CHP expired, he left his CHP at home, he really didnt have a CHP, pick one. Most likely he was charged with something else and they plead it down to this. He then read the code and he appealed the conviction after he saw it didnt meet the criteria never mind it was a plea. One thing to remember with an AR is that there is no firing pin safety. I always feel uneasy having it chambered and out of my direct control. There could be more to the story, but it doesn't sound like a plea deal. I can't think of something that 18.2-287.4 would be the "lesser included" charge for. Also, plea doesn't matter - you can appeal to Circuit even if you plead guilty. Sometimes the "deal" will be that you plead in GDC and agree to not appeal, but I'm not sure that is enforceable. The AR has a floating firing pin but it would take an absurd amount of acceleration to generate enough force with that light firing pin to fire a cartridge. i dont know about the legal stuff, but as far as the firing pin goes, the US military on a daily basis downrange has troops in condition Red beating the shit out of their rifles, theres not gonna be much you can do to fire an M4 accidentally like that. |
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Posted: 7/5/2012 7:21:17 PM EDT
[#46]
I had an issue M16a4 in a year long deployment that I never had problems with but I didnt sit it down and leave it unattended with a round in the chamber. Most of the vehicle mounts I saw mounted it vertical. That was also with military primers. However, it is simple physics if you hit it hard enough on the muzzle end it will go off. Not likely but I wouldn't want it in my car strapped next to my head like that. A lot of things can happen during a vehicle accident.
Here is a post where a guy has been compiling slamfires towards the bottom. http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-524362.html |
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