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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/25/2005 12:24:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 12:26:22 PM EDT by JimMayhugh]
I received this message from Arizona DPS a few days ago.


This message is to inform you that reciprocity with Utah will be cancelled within 30 or so days, depending on when we receive notification that Utah has received the declination of reciprocity. Utah permits will be recognized in AZ thereafter, but only if held by non-Arizona residents.

Please make sure your AZ resident students understand this as they will be subject to arrest if found carrying a concealed weapon in AZ using a Utah permit (after reciprocity is officially cancelled).

Sincerely,

Detective Russ Hamilton
Supervisor
AZ DPS Concealed Weapon Permit Unit
(602) 256-6280
(602) 223-2708
(800) 256-6280 (In Arizona only)
(602) 223-2928 Fax


This was done in response to a few Arizona Instructors that were offering Utah permit classes to Arizona residents, by-passing the Arizona permit requirements.

This does not affect Nevada CFP holders, as both AZ and UT recognize the NV permit.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 12:45:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JimMayhugh:
I received this message from Arizona DPS a few days ago.


This message is to inform you that reciprocity with Utah will be cancelled within 30 or so days, depending on when we receive notification that Utah has received the declination of reciprocity. Utah permits will be recognized in AZ thereafter, but only if held by non-Arizona residents.

Please make sure your AZ resident students understand this as they will be subject to arrest if found carrying a concealed weapon in AZ using a Utah permit (after reciprocity is officially cancelled).

Sincerely,

Detective Russ Hamilton
Supervisor

AZ DPS Concealed Weapon Permit Unit
(602) 256-6280
(602) 223-2708
(800) 256-6280 (In Arizona only)
(602) 223-2928 Fax


This was done in response to a few Arizona Instructors that were offering Utah permit classes to Arizona residents, by-passing the Arizona permit requirements.

This does not affect Nevada CFP holders, as both AZ and UT recognize the NV permit.



AZ/UT reciprocity is not being cancelled.

It looks like AZ is only cancelling reciprocity for holders of out of state Utah permits who are residents of Arizona and do not hold an AZ permit. All other UT permits are still good to go.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 1:18:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 1:21:18 PM EDT by JimMayhugh]

Originally Posted By HELLBRINGER:

AZ/UT reciprocity is not being cancelled.

It looks like AZ is only cancelling reciprocity for holders of out of state Utah permits who are residents of Arizona and do not hold an AZ permit. All other UT permits are still good to go.



You're confusing reciprocity with recognition.

Reciprocity is a formal agreement drawn up between two states that states "we'll honor your permit if you honor ours". Arizona and Utah have a formal reciprocity agreement. This allowed Arizonans that could not or would not obtain an Arizona permit to carry in Arizona with a Utah permit. This agreement is being cancelled.

Arizona also recognizes permits from other states that have substantially similar requirements for issuance of that state's permit. This is a unilateral decision on the part of the recognizing state, and is not part of a formal agreement between states. Nevada is one such example. Arizona also recognizes Utah's permit but not when carried by Arizona residents.

When AZDPS says that a reciprocity agreement is being cancelled, you might want to believe it.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:45:27 PM EDT
Thanks for the heads up Jim. Looks like my NV and FL permits still get me legal in AZ though. :)
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:54:16 AM EDT
Sounds like the bottom line is that AZ residents will need an AZ permit to carry in AZ.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 6:45:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 5:04:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JimMayhugh:

Originally Posted By HELLBRINGER:

AZ/UT reciprocity is not being cancelled.

It looks like AZ is only cancelling reciprocity for holders of out of state Utah permits who are residents of Arizona and do not hold an AZ permit. All other UT permits are still good to go.



You're confusing reciprocity with recognition.

Reciprocity is a formal agreement drawn up between two states that states "we'll honor your permit if you honor ours". Arizona and Utah have a formal reciprocity agreement. This allowed Arizonans that could not or would not obtain an Arizona permit to carry in Arizona with a Utah permit. This agreement is being cancelled.

Arizona also recognizes permits from other states that have substantially similar requirements for issuance of that state's permit. This is a unilateral decision on the part of the recognizing state, and is not part of a formal agreement between states. Nevada is one such example. Arizona also recognizes Utah's permit but not when carried by Arizona residents.

When AZDPS says that a reciprocity agreement is being cancelled, you might want to believe it.



I see you did some CYA and clarified the issue. Just FYI, "recognition" is strictly an administrative term and is not found in the specific AZ law related to concealed permits. The word "Reciprocity" IS in the law which is why I used it.

The reason I responded originally is that you gave the impression (as evidenced by WS6_Keith's response) that Utah permits would no longer be recognized in AZ. This, as you obviously know now, is not the case. Why else would you post this in the Nevada forum when the change doesn't affect Nevada residents in any way (Nevada residents who only hold Utah permits can still carry in AZ)...................unless you thought it did?

As for you Wolfpack, it's clear to me that the quality of "moderation" happening in the Nevada hometown forum is the root of most of the problems I keep seeing here. Who did you have to blow to get the gig? Nobody else want it?

Oh, and you can shove your clever smilies up your ass. It's clear though that you have great difficulty communicating any other way so I will try to be more understanding.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 5:08:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 5:09:05 PM EDT
Hellbringer - while your information is sound, the delivery is somewhat abrasive. These guys afford no slack. Gotta have thick skin.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 6:51:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2005 12:59:01 PM EDT by JimMayhugh]

Originally Posted By HELLBRINGER:
I see you did some CYA and clarified the issue. Just FYI, "recognition" is strictly an administrative term and is not found in the specific AZ law related to concealed permits. The word "Reciprocity" IS in the law which is why I used it.



No "CYA" involved. You plainly stated that "AZ/UT reciprocity is not being cancelled." AZDPS plainly states that it will be. Seems like you're the one trying to muddle the issue.

You're also incorrect about the term "reciprocity" being in the ARS. The correct term is "reciprocal agreement" , which is as I expained it. So in that case both "reciprocity" and "recognition" are administrative terms, by your own definition.

If you're going to start a war of words, make sure you have some ammo.


Originally Posted By HELLBRINGER:
The reason I responded originally is that you gave the impression (as evidenced by WS6_Keith's response) that Utah permits would no longer be recognized in AZ. This, as you obviously know now, is not the case. Why else would you post this in the Nevada forum when the change doesn't affect Nevada residents in any way (Nevada residents who only hold Utah permits can still carry in AZ)...................unless you thought it did?



That may be the impression you got, but only if you didn't read or comprehend the message that plainly states "Utah permits will be recognized in AZ thereafter, but only if held by non-Arizona residents."

I post items that may be of interest to my fellow Nevada members, not necessarily because it has a direct impact on Nevadans in general. The point I was trying to get across was that a misuse of a reciprocal agreement by a few instructors out to make a fast buck caused the rescinding of an agreement that many others struggled long and hard to get on the books. UT/AZ reciprocity was cancelled once before, and we fought like hell to get it re-instated, only to lose it yet again.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 8:56:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 8:57:50 PM EDT by chiz45]
Hellbringer, give it a rest. I'm sure most of the SoNV guys have all run into each other at one point or another, and most if not all us are pretty low key and friendly. Misunderstandings, mistakes, or differences in opinion, there's no reason for y'all to come out swinging...on the internet.

Because remember........

Link Posted: 9/27/2005 8:59:19 AM EDT
WOW, and I thought I was a DICK! Hellbringer's just frustrated he can't obtain a CCW in CA.
Thanks for the good information Jim.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 10:20:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HELLBRINGER:


As for you Wolfpack, it's clear to me that the quality of "moderation" happening in the Nevada hometown forum is the root of most of the problems I keep seeing here. Who did you have to blow to get the gig? Nobody else want it?



Out of curoiusity, what are the problems you keep seeing here?
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 4:54:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 4:59:48 PM EDT by ishoot2live]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By HELLBRINGER:


As for you Wolfpack, it's clear to me that the quality of "moderation" happening in the Nevada hometown forum is the root of most of the problems I keep seeing here. Who did you have to blow to get the gig? Nobody else want it?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This HELLBRINGER guy is a real piece of work. When he comes into the Nevada Forum he always draws first blood with someone. What he doesn’t grasp is that there are a few members on the Nevada Board (including myself) that will not be as gracious as others when responding to his asinine and ill-mannered rants that he knows absolutely nothing about.

Last week this pinhead castigated me because I made mention to Vegas-SMG in another post about the differentiation between an SMG and an MG. It was an innocent observation and I don't think Vegas-SMG (nor any one else on the Nevada Board for that matter) had difficulty with my remark until this boob stirred shit up.

Now this moron is starting shit with Jim Mayhugh over a post that contained some useful information for NEVADA (Ya’ hear that HELLBRINGER? NEVADA) members regarding CCW permit reciprocity between Utah and Arizona. Jim, like me is an industry professional, who is always trying to answer questions and publish information that is pertinent to gun rights and the law. If Jim wanted negative commentary from Kommiefornians, I am sure that he would have posted his thread in the Slave-State medium.

HELLBRINGER is also fucking with Wolfpack (who happens to be a personal friend of mine), blaming any differences of opinion in the Nevada Forum on him, which is bullshit. Let me tell you something HELLBRINGER: We take care of ourselves here in Nevada. We live in a free state from the edges of the Idaho border, to the swiftness of the Colorado River in Arizona. The only downfall to living in the free state of Nevada is that our entire Western border is held hostage by real estate whose flag bears a hammer and sickle.

We are big boys possessing big boy toys, and we do not need permission from Nanny to own or possess them. We have .50 BMG’s, Full-Auto MG’s and SMG’s, Suppressors, Bayonet Lugs on evil black rifles, and yes, even “high capacity ammunition feeding devices.” These are items you can only dream about owning when you press your face against the glass outside one of our gun shops (who by the way wont even give Kommiefornians the time of day, let alone allow them to fondle items of freedom).

My suggestion to you HELLBRINGER is to either amend your attitude and play nice, or take your toys out of the sandbox and go home.

Oh yea, if you do go away don’t go away mad, just GO AWAY....

Joe
OUT
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 5:01:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 5:03:26 PM EDT by Terryreno]
Hey go backing to fucking Kommieforia....................if there is any blowing going on around here you can bet the women are doing it !!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 6:51:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 7:41:25 AM EDT
You guys crack me up! I must have really touched some raw nerves.

Considering I closed escrow yesterday and am now enjoying a beautiful morning while looking out at the strip from my new living room, William Shakespeare himself wouldn’t have been articulate enough to put into words how little I care what a bunch of internet commandos and "industry professionals" think about me.

Perhaps the intellectually honest among you will take a moment to review some of the threads in question and see that the "abrasive" tones are consistently coming first from a few individuals who place a high premium on nonsense such as "post counts" and the like. Maybe you should put a "sign" up on this forum warning people that differing opinions are not welcome and provide a list of members whose posts are to be treated as gospel.

Have a nice day

Be safe

Oh, and remember, a gun that shoot a pistol caliber round is a SUB-machine gun

HELLBRINGER

OUT!
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 8:43:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ishoot2live:
We are big boys possessing big boy toys, and we do not need permission from Nanny to own or possess them. We have .50 BMG’s, Full-Auto MG’s and SMG’s, Suppressors, Bayonet Lugs on evil black rifles, and yes, even “high capacity ammunition feeding devices.” These are items you can only dream about owning when you press your face against the glass outside one of our gun shops (who by the way wont even give Kommiefornians the time of day, let alone allow them to fondle items of freedom).



+1!
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 9:44:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HELLBRINGER:
You guys crack me up! I must have really touched some raw nerves.

Considering I closed escrow yesterday and am now enjoying a beautiful morning while looking out at the strip from my new living room,



That would just make you another, among millions, of countless assholes steaming up Clark County. The good news is there is time to come around and not be a shit stirring prick. I ask again, what problems do see here consistantly? If it's abrasive tone, ya moved to the wrong place. Casino doors open inward to invite you, when it's time to leave, someone mean will help you out. That's a metaphor. (I point that out so I can gain accolades from my fellow board members.) We are a tolerant,good natured bunch of straight speaking folks here. This may take some getting used to. We only wish to fleece the tourists and mind our own bidness. Nobody wants to ride you like a Burning man participant. We tend to be self sufficient, so if you want a reach around you'll have to do it yourself.

As always, fellow Nevadans are invited to visit me at the bar. I'll buy the first round. Come see us up here and learn about hospitality, manners, and graciousness.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:02:39 AM EDT
Which bar? :)
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 12:47:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 3:53:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HELLBRINGER:

Considering I closed escrow yesterday and am now enjoying a beautiful morning while looking out at the strip from my new living room, William Shakespeare himself wouldn’t have been articulate enough to put into words how little I care what a bunch of internet commandos and "industry professionals" think about me.

HELLBRINGER

OUT!



No offense HB,

But no one ever had an issue with you in the Nevada Forum. It was YOU who drew first blood with me over my SMG/MG comment to Vegas-SMG. You came along from Kommiefornia and put your two pennies in and became the forum Nanny and stirred up shit over something that nobody ever complains about.

If stirring up shit with me wasn't enough, you took one more step and fucked with Jim Mayhugh..... And then you personally attacked Wolfpack, the Forum Moderator. Now you give us the breaking news that you are a part time resident of our fair county. Oh joy…

As internet commandos and industry professionals, taking into account the fact that you reside mostly in Kommiefornia, I can reassure you that we consider you to be a kind, gentle, thin-skinned, caring, part-time Kommiefornia transplant who knows everything about everything. May I ask where you purchased your tunnel vision blinders and auditory exclusion shut-offs? They must be very high quality because they appear to be working exquisitely.

Here’s a news flash for you HELLBRINGER: This vibrant city once was a place where adults would come to party and play. They would drop all their cash and then LEAVE. Now it is just the opposite. Clark County has been raped over the past several years by newcomers from the “Left Coast.” The outsiders come here, they don’t gamble, and they are NOT LEAVING.

Kommiefornians are driving the housing market up, and as a result the people who helped build this city can’t even afford to buy a house here now (thanks for nothing). They are infiltrating local and state politics, and they’re bringing their liberal doctrine and political correctness along with their tie-died T-shirts, Birkenstocks, Burning Man Festival, Tree Huggers, Animal Rights whackos, and war protesters. These invaders from another country (the one that borders the West side of Nevada) are rapidly turning this great city into a “cultural cesspool” of nannies, liberals, and freaks. That is why you will feel right at home here in lovely Clark County, California.

So, please enjoy your morning Latte’ while viewing the Strip from your living room while chatting on the cell phone with your therapist. And oh yea, be sure to read the latest edition of City Life, it should be very familiar reading to you.

Joe
OUT

PS: Northern Nevada keeps looking better and better all the time. Gunmonkey and Beckett have it made…..
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 10:11:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WS6_Keith:
Which bar? :)



Hamdog's in Gardnerville. The offer is always open to ARFCommers. Swing in and I'll buy the first round. SUN-TUE-WED-THUR 2p-10p, Mon 7am-2pm.

Ron
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 8:16:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ishoot2live:

Originally Posted By HELLBRINGER:

Considering I closed escrow yesterday and am now enjoying a beautiful morning while looking out at the strip from my new living room, William Shakespeare himself wouldn’t have been articulate enough to put into words how little I care what a bunch of internet commandos and "industry professionals" think about me.

HELLBRINGER

OUT!



No offense HB,

But no one ever had an issue with you in the Nevada Forum. It was YOU who drew first blood with me over my SMG/MG comment to Vegas-SMG. You came along from Kommiefornia and put your two pennies in and became the forum Nanny and stirred up shit over something that nobody ever complains about.

If stirring up shit with me wasn't enough, you took one more step and fucked with Jim Mayhugh..... And then you personally attacked Wolfpack, the Forum Moderator. Now you give us the breaking news that you are a part time resident of our fair county. Oh joy…

As internet commandos and industry professionals, taking into account the fact that you reside mostly in Kommiefornia, I can reassure you that we consider you to be a kind, gentle, thin-skinned, caring, part-time Kommiefornia transplant who knows everything about everything. May I ask where you purchased your tunnel vision blinders and auditory exclusion shut-offs? They must be very high quality because they appear to be working exquisitely.

Here’s a news flash for you HELLBRINGER: This vibrant city once was a place where adults would come to party and play. They would drop all their cash and then LEAVE. Now it is just the opposite. Clark County has been raped over the past several years by newcomers from the “Left Coast.” The outsiders come here, they don’t gamble, and they are NOT LEAVING.

Kommiefornians are driving the housing market up, and as a result the people who helped build this city can’t even afford to buy a house here now (thanks for nothing). They are infiltrating local and state politics, and they’re bringing their liberal doctrine and political correctness along with their tie-died T-shirts, Birkenstocks, Burning Man Festival, Tree Huggers, Animal Rights whackos, and war protesters. These invaders from another country (the one that borders the West side of Nevada) are rapidly turning this great city into a “cultural cesspool” of nannies, liberals, and freaks. That is why you will feel right at home here in lovely Clark County, California.

So, please enjoy your morning Latte’ while viewing the Strip from your living room while chatting on the cell phone with your therapist. And oh yea, be sure to read the latest edition of City Life, it should be very familiar reading to you.

Joe
OUT

PS: Northern Nevada keeps looking better and better all the time. Gunmonkey and Beckett have it made…..



Joe,
Not all of us from California are dick sucking liberals. I left that socialist hell hole to come to the best state in the country. I feel your pain. I am tired of the liberals invading this fine state. I pray that they don't try to take our guns and carry permits away.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:04:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 5:08:24 PM EDT by JimMayhugh]
And now it's offical:



The CCW permit reciprocal agreement with Utah will be cancelled effective
October 25th, 2005. Arizona residents currently carrying concealed weapons
in Arizona with a Utah permit are encouraged to obtain an Arizona permit.
Once the agreement is cancelled, Arizona residents are subject to arrest if
found carrying concealed weapons using a Utah permit.

The Utah permit will be recognized in Arizona if held by a non-Arizona
resident pursuant to ARS 13-3112.V.



This agreement is being cancelled because Utah CCW permit training is no
longer considered "substantially similar" as required by statute (ARS
13-3112.U), Utah has issued permits to Arizona residents who were denied an
Arizona permit and Arizona residents are obtaining Utah permits to carry
concealed weapons in Arizona, bypassing training requirements on Arizona
firearms and use of deadly force laws. Please note that the Utah and
Arizona permit licensing units continue to enjoy an excellent working
relationship.

Respectfully,

Detective Russ Hamilton
Supervisor
AZ DPS Concealed Weapon Permit Unit
(602) 256-6280
(602) 223-2708
(800) 256-6280 (In Arizona only)
(602) 223-2928 Fax



The highlighted area is for HellBringer, just in case.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:55:07 PM EDT
This thread'll be worth it if HB convinces 3 calis to stay put.
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