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Posted: 1/26/2011 7:21:09 PM EDT
My dad absolutely insists that if an unmarked car tries to pull you over you don't have to stop until a marked unit joins in. I have a lot of trouble believing this-to me it's about like using an undercover officer for drug buys, nothing but a way to make it easier to catch a crime in progress(even if that crime is "just" speeding).
For those who know, who's right? IMO an unmarked car with a Kojak light is as "legal" as a fully marked car but I'll be the first to admit I don't know all the laws.
Link Posted: 1/26/2011 7:36:40 PM EDT
321.279 ELUDING OR ATTEMPTING TO ELUDE PURSUING LAW
ENFORCEMENT VEHICLE.
1. The driver of a motor vehicle commits a serious misdemeanor if
the driver willfully fails to bring the motor vehicle to a stop or
otherwise eludes or attempts to elude a marked official law
enforcement vehicle driven by a uniformed peace officer after being
given a visual and audible signal to stop. The signal given by the
peace officer shall be by flashing red light, or by flashing red and
blue lights, and siren. For purposes of this section, "peace
officer" means those officers designated under section 801.4,
subsection 11, paragraphs "a", "b", "c", "f",
"g", and "h".
2. The driver of a motor vehicle commits an aggravated
misdemeanor if the driver willfully fails to bring the motor vehicle
to a stop or otherwise eludes or attempts to elude a marked official
law enforcement vehicle that is driven by a uniformed peace officer
after being given a visual and audible signal as provided in this
section and in doing so exceeds the speed limit by twenty-five miles
per hour or more.
3. The driver of a motor vehicle commits a class "D" felony if
the driver willfully fails to bring the motor vehicle to a stop or
otherwise eludes or attempts to elude a marked official law
enforcement vehicle that is driven by a uniformed peace officer after
being given a visual and audible signal as provided in this section,
and in doing so exceeds the speed limit by twenty-five miles per hour
or more, and if any of the following occurs:
a. The driver is participating in a public offense, as
defined in section 702.13, that is a felony.
b. The driver is in violation of section 321J.2 or 124.401.
c. The offense results in bodily injury to a person other
than the driver.
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 3:37:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2011 3:41:00 AM EDT by TheMirage]
One could argue his father is correct. The law posted repeats the vehicle has to be " marked" and the officer is in "uniform". The lights and sirens are the " signals". By that you don't have to stop.

What has been advised to many I know is call 911 while not alluding at high speed to verify as lights are easily bought and have been used in the course of a crime. Exterior " marks" not so much.

If someone wants I can get legal advice on this but I doubt it's needed. If in public just stop. County road use caution, stop and if I guy in a tshirt gets out leave and call 911.

Rlarge I know ur positition as it affects you differently then most of us and respect it.
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 4:09:44 AM EDT
Just stop and leave your window rolled up until you can see the uniform and udge for yourself. If you have any doubts, leave the window up and ask the officer to call in a marked car.

Taking off and/or not stopping is going to look bad no matter how you justify it. You're not going to impress the officer with your knowledge of the law whilst starting a low-speed pursuit
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 4:47:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SamW:
Just stop and leave your window rolled up until you can see the uniform and udge for yourself. If you have any doubts, leave the window up and ask the officer to call in a marked car.

Taking off and/or not stopping is going to look bad no matter how you justify it. You're not going to impress the officer with your knowledge of the law whilst starting a low-speed pursuit


Good point. Just sitting there with the windows up and doors locked would probably be a better option. Thanks for adding that. That way you aren't immediately guilty of a serious misdemeanor and have to explain yourself out of it.
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 5:20:24 AM EDT
This is relevent in my "opinion"...

I am 6'-3", 260 lbs...

My WIFE is 5'-2", 110 lbs

What would you gents tell your WIFE to do if she was, say, driving home alone, with your three year old daughter? You live out in the country, very little traffic, and an unmarked car, could be a crown vic, or whatever "signals" to pull over. The signal, these days could be anything from a kojak light to strobes, whatever. Anyting is available on the interwebz.

Oh, and, it's dark; night time.


Link Posted: 1/27/2011 5:59:09 AM EDT
in rare circumstances i've heard of scenarios where bad guys posed as the good guys. i don't know the ramifications of it, but i tell my wife if she's ever concerned to slow down 10MPH or so below the speed limit, turn on the hazard lamps, call 911 and verify through them a genuine officer is attempting to pull her over. if so, then do it. otherwise, report it.

driving off from an unmarked car will probably elevate things to a level nobody digs in the end. so while we can all set around in the coffee shop bitching about unmarked coppers you'll end up cutting off your nose to spite your face i'd bet...
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 6:05:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By septic-tank13:
in rare circumstances i've heard of scenarios where bad guys posed as the good guys. i don't know the ramifications of it, but i tell my wife if she's ever concerned to slow down 10MPH or so below the speed limit, turn on the hazard lamps, call 911 and verify through them a genuine officer is attempting to pull her over. if so, then do it. otherwise, report it.

driving off from an unmarked car will probably elevate things to a level nobody digs in the end. so while we can all set around in the coffee shop bitching about unmarked coppers you'll end up cutting off your nose to spite your face i'd bet...


Yes, that ^ (all of it)

I feel that as long as you call 911 right away, there is record of your intentions for defense
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 6:18:08 AM EDT
State Patrol has run unmarked units for decades. At least one per post.
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 7:26:59 AM EDT
In order for someone to be guilty of eluding they must attempt to evade a "marked" law enforcement vehicle. The best advice is to drive at a slower pace, put on your flashers, and go to a public spot (gas station, business parking lot, so on). A 911 call to dispatch might not be able to contact the vehicle attempting to stop you. In the Des Moines metro there are several different agencies working on different radio frequencies. Think about the locals, State, Sheriff's department, narcs, feds, MINE all on different frequencies. The dispatcher can send a car to your location to make sure the initiating vehicle is on the up and up. It happens more than you think.
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 8:06:52 AM EDT
I think septic has stated the conclusion of what we all advise after reviewing the situation.
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 9:43:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tbeminio:
In order for someone to be guilty of eluding they must attempt to evade a "marked" law enforcement vehicle. The best advice is to drive at a slower pace, put on your flashers, and go to a public spot (gas station, business parking lot, so on). A 911 call to dispatch might not be able to contact the vehicle attempting to stop you. In the Des Moines metro there are several different agencies working on different radio frequencies. Think about the locals, State, Sheriff's department, narcs, feds, MINE all on different frequencies. The dispatcher can send a car to your location to make sure the initiating vehicle is on the up and up. It happens more than you think.


So I can just speed off from an unmarked and be legal? COOL!
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 10:55:32 AM EDT
See I said that term marked makes a difference.

:)
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 4:15:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2011 4:16:46 PM EDT by EARRNHARDT3]
Ok Our un-marked officer just told me that if you run from a un-mark car you can be charged with. " failure to yield to an emergency vehicle" but as soon as a "marked" car enters the chase it becomes "eluding"


E3
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 5:41:14 PM EDT
Why do people even try to run away? You never get away!!! All those chases on the news just end with the driver with road rash on the face after they get introduced to the pavement with a little help.

A litle off topic: I normally have just seen one K9 dog chase down a suspect but has anyone ever seen two K9 dogs released and they played a little tug of war with the suspect before the cop got there to command them to stop???
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 6:30:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15JoeL:
Why do people even try to run away? You never get away!!! All those chases on the news just end with the driver with road rash on the face after they get introduced to the pavement with a little help.

A litle off topic: I normally have just seen one K9 dog chase down a suspect but has anyone ever seen two K9 dogs released and they played a little tug of war with the suspect before the cop got there to command them to stop???


I don't think we are saying run away and yes I've seen a Cops episode where I guy was getting his ass handed to him by two dogs.
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 6:33:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EARRNHARDT3:
Ok Our un-marked officer just told me that if you run from a un-mark car you can be charged with. " failure to yield to an emergency vehicle" but as soon as a "marked" car enters the chase it becomes "eluding"


E3


Hmm, thats a new one. Does yielding mean I have to stop? I can't see myself getting pulled over by an ambulance but I do yield the right away by pulling to the side, not always stopping, or turning off the road.
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 6:48:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheMirage:
Originally Posted By AR15JoeL:
Why do people even try to run away? You never get away!!! All those chases on the news just end with the driver with road rash on the face after they get introduced to the pavement with a little help.

A litle off topic: I normally have just seen one K9 dog chase down a suspect but has anyone ever seen two K9 dogs released and they played a little tug of war with the suspect before the cop got there to command them to stop???


I don't think we are saying run away and yes I've seen a Cops episode where I guy was getting his ass handed to him by two dogs.


Sorry about that. I meant speed away from "marked cop cars". I'll have to do some searching for some videos on past Cops episodes.
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 7:01:24 PM EDT
I took a driving class taught by a trooper for work several years back and we covered this a little. He said that if you are unsure a car is actually a police car you can keep driving (the speed limit, not over) until you reach a gas station or someplace safe with witnesses to stop or until you call 911 and they confirm a cop is trying to pull you over. He also said that if practical and safe they will drive up next to you with their dome light on so you can see they are a trooper in uniform. He was talking mostly about being in the middle of nowhere, the middle of town might be a different story. Also a car full of guys vs. a single female would probably have different outcomes. Not sure if this was in the code or policy or just what he does, but that is the jist of what he told the class.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 4:07:50 AM EDT
I really don't give a crap if it's in a public place. If a guy slaps on a dress shirt and a bage, WTF is Habib, the gas station attendant going to do? He's going to think nothing of this psycho putting your mom/wife/sister/daughter in the backseat of his crown vic and driving away.

Habib continues to watch Ricky Lake and you're screwed. Calling 911 is a must, not just a public place.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 5:24:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SamW:
I really don't give a crap if it's in a public place. If a guy slaps on a dress shirt and a bage, WTF is Habib, the gas station attendant going to do? He's going to think nothing of this psycho putting your mom/wife/sister/daughter in the backseat of his crown vic and driving away.

Habib continues to watch Ricky Lake and you're screwed. Calling 911 is a must, not just a public place.


This. Remember when some guy (sheriff's son) who stole a marked sheriff car a few years back, then pulled over a motorist and murdered her? It's a no-win situation, so call 911 if there is any doubt at all.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 5:26:04 AM EDT
Funny how this comes up from time to time. The first response to this that cited the eluding code section has nothing to do with the original question. The car need be marked ONLY to support the eluding charge, not the traffic charges that have to do with pulling over. When being approached (from either direction) by an authorized emergency vehicle displaying FLASHING RED AND BLUE lights, the driver of any motor vehicle MUST immediately as it is safe to do so PULL TO THE RIGHT AND STOP. Whether they are trying to pull you over or simply get around you in an emergency you must pull to the right and stop (but if they go by before you get stopped then obviously you don't need to stop anymore). This is what you would be charged with (failure to yield to an emergency vehicle), not eluding if you didn't stop for an unmarked police car. Its a traffic ticket, and one that a judge would probably let you off of if you could demonstrate that you weren't being UNREASONABLE.

What is reasonable?

Well first off, if you are in the middle of nowhere you better be stopping right away. Many people think because they are out in the dark miles away from home that they are at some risk of being victimized by some cop impersonator. I am here to tell you that this DOES NOT HAPPEN. Impersonators stay in towns, and the ones that like to pick on alone ladies need to be in town, where they can spot their prey leaving the grocery store etc and know who they are "stopping." The absolute last thing they want to do is stop a vehicle in the dark in rural IA where there is a good chance they walk up to a car with a 50 year old farmer in it who catches on to the fact that they are not who they say they are and greets them with the Remington 870 thats been in their car for the last 12 years. Rural roads in IA are the safest place you can be.

Also reasonable...
If you pull out of Quick Trip in Des Moines and an "unmarked" car follows you for three miles as you make your way home then suddenly tries to pull you over with a tiny flashing light... yeah you might want to be calling 911 to see what's going on.

I put A LOT of forethought into every traffic stop I make to make sure that there is a safe place to pull over so I (and the violator) are at minimum risk for getting our asses knocked off the road and killed. More often than not, when someone thinks they are doing themselves a favor by pulling up to somewhere thats lighted etc all they and up doing is endangering us both by leaving my ass hanging out on the road on a curve or right over the crest of a hill or on a shoulder thats narrow as hell.

Now for the kicker, your chance of being victimized by an impersonator in IA are very low. When one of these assholes does something we find out about it VERY quickly and we go after them with a vengeance. Then when we catch them, we hammer them to the wall. We take these losers very seriously, and they go to jail, period.

Hope this sheds some light on your conundrum.



Link Posted: 1/28/2011 7:17:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SamW:
I really don't give a crap if it's in a public place. If a guy slaps on a dress shirt and a bage, WTF is Habib, the gas station attendant going to do? He's going to think nothing of this psycho putting your mom/wife/sister/daughter in the backseat of his crown vic and driving away.

Habib continues to watch Ricky Lake and you're screwed. Calling 911 is a must, not just a public place.


Take your pick then, middle of nowhere or somewhere with the potential of help. Keep in mind this was before every school kid had a cell phone and coverage wasn't as good as it is now. It comes down to matter of judgement, both by the driver and the cop pulling you over. If you have some reason to believe that it is not a cop pulling you over then it is up to you to risk the charges or stop until you find out for sure.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 7:44:31 AM EDT
Your quest for vengance does not make me feel any better about my Mom pulling over on a dark rural road in BFE.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 7:45:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By smallmunster:
Originally Posted By SamW:
I really don't give a crap if it's in a public place. If a guy slaps on a dress shirt and a bage, WTF is Habib, the gas station attendant going to do? He's going to think nothing of this psycho putting your mom/wife/sister/daughter in the backseat of his crown vic and driving away.

Habib continues to watch Ricky Lake and you're screwed. Calling 911 is a must, not just a public place.


Take your pick then, middle of nowhere or somewhere with the potential of help. Keep in mind this was before every school kid had a cell phone and coverage wasn't as good as it is now. It comes down to matter of judgement, both by the driver and the cop pulling you over. If you have some reason to believe that it is not a cop pulling you over then it is up to you to risk the charges or stop until you find out for sure.


I say forget your choices. Call 911 and stop wherever the hell you want. Did you forget to type option C?
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 9:05:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By eightmillimeter:
...Now for the kicker, your chance of being victimized by an impersonator in IA are very low. When one of these assholes does something we find out about it VERY quickly and we go after them with a vengeance. Then when we catch them, we hammer them to the wall. We take these losers very seriously, and they go to jail, period.


lol... but if it happens to you, you're already dead or worse, right? "sorry, the chances were low you'd be abducted and raped so we advise you not play it safe and assume all is well. ...and sorry about you getting abducted and raped that time..." uh, no...

where is the logic in that?

sorry, but that is a FAIL in my book. i'm not advocating making calls when pulled over a habit. i AM saying if my wife is being hailed to stop by a car with no identifying markings and she questions it, pulling over on a country road in BFE isn't SOP for my family. you can't say definitively about the many in this state and others that go missing and are abducted and by what means or they'd most likekly be caught. i understand you're LE and i'm not trying to disrespect you, but some of the advice you gave above borders on irresponsible...
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 9:08:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By smallmunster:
I took a driving class taught by a trooper for work several years back and we covered this a little. He said that if you are unsure a car is actually a police car you can keep driving (the speed limit, not over) until you reach a gas station or someplace safe with witnesses to stop or until you call 911 and they confirm a cop is trying to pull you over. He also said that if practical and safe they will drive up next to you with their dome light on so you can see they are a trooper in uniform. He was talking mostly about being in the middle of nowhere, the middle of town might be a different story. Also a car full of guys vs. a single female would probably have different outcomes. Not sure if this was in the code or policy or just what he does, but that is the jist of what he told the class.


Calling 911 was mentioned in my original post. If that is not an option, I'll take public place vs middle of nowhere.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 1:56:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2011 1:57:21 PM EDT by AR15JoeL]
Originally Posted By smallmunster:
Originally Posted By smallmunster:
I took a driving class taught by a trooper for work several years back and we covered this a little. He said that if you are unsure a car is actually a police car you can keep driving (the speed limit, not over) until you reach a gas station or someplace safe with witnesses to stop or until you call 911 and they confirm a cop is trying to pull you over. He also said that if practical and safe they will drive up next to you with their dome light on so you can see they are a trooper in uniform. He was talking mostly about being in the middle of nowhere, the middle of town might be a different story. Also a car full of guys vs. a single female would probably have different outcomes. Not sure if this was in the code or policy or just what he does, but that is the jist of what he told the class.


Calling 911 was mentioned in my original post. If that is not an option, I'll take public place vs middle of nowhere.


If it's public place make sure it's a gun free area or a store that bans carry- that should help out if it's a bad guy
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 4:34:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2011 4:40:08 PM EDT by tbeminio]
Respect my authority

I couldn't resist...sorry.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 6:07:51 PM EDT
Okay, I'll jump in. I won't go into legalities, I'm not a lawyer.

I drive an unmarked. Have for several years now. (Septic's even seen it if he remembers )
I also work in plainclothes. My car is set up to be low profile for surveillance ops, but it's got enough hidden lights that it doesn't look like a kid with a bubblegum light.

I very rarely make traffic stops because of this. However my assignment is investigations, not traffic enforcement. When I do make a stop I have my badge and credentials out as I approach the car, show them, and give them my name.

This is something my fellow plainclothes guys and I have discussed. Most are like me and don't do traffic stops very often. The only time we do stops at night is usually related to some ongoing operation. I'm not going to be offended if you just crack your window far enough so we can communicate. If you feel you need to go somewhere more public before stopping, then slow down and give me some obvious sign (dome light on, hazard lights on etc.) you've seen me and are complying. You'd be amazed how far we have followed cars, even in fully marked units, who never notice the flashing lights behind them. If you want to call 911 and verify that's okay, but understand that in the country the cell towers don't necessarily go to the right jurisdiction or follow county lines, so there might be some confusion there. If you want to wait for a marked car, I'm okay with that, but again it might be some time, 20-30 minutes in some places, before a marked car gets there.

I'll agree with 8MM on one thing. We do take fakers seriously. I won't say they aren't out there, but if we hear about hem, or suspect a car, we go after them pretty hard. I've done search warrants etc on these guys. We share information between agencies on these guys. If there's a car in your area you suspect, report it. Someone will check.

Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 8:52:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2011 9:07:08 PM EDT by fammyman]
I want to say first that sometimes people do get away. Heard one on thescanner the other night. Second I am still wierded out where I see people stop here in iowa. I see people stop for officers in the middle of traffic. Back home they prefer you pull out of the way of traffic ie side road, parking lot etc. here i had an officer ask my why i pulled into a parking lot when he lit me up. I replied for both our safety. His response was lol. Do you guys like being ON 14th doing a traffic stop ? Also ive always advised my other half to wait for a marked unit as well.


ETA spelling
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 8:59:24 PM EDT
You don't want to pull over? Make your decision and take your chances. Just hope you don't make the wrong one. kwg
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 9:05:17 PM EDT
I also drive an unmarked patrol car. Lots of good advise already given. Don't do anything that would lead the officer to believe you are trying to get away for starters.
Public places are best, because most bad guys don't want an audience.
Asking for a marked unit, is not a problem.....keeping your head about you is ALWAYS the best advice for just about any situation.
I do make a significant amount of traffic stops, and from the LEO side of things you would be surprised at what folks will do in front of me that they will not do in front of a marked unit.....and for that matter how many times have you seen someone do something totally idiotic and wished that a cop was around?
My job description is a little varied compared to most officers, dignitary protective details, tactical call outs, teaching, and the like and one of the reasons I have an unmarked is most of the gear I am required to carry will not fit into a car, let alone one of the new "economy sized" patrol cars.
I know there are always going to be folks who will not be fond of us doing anything "sneaky" but if you are not doing anything you shouldn't then why worry.....I mean if the most outlandish thing you do is go 10mph over the speed limit then you absolutely have nothing to worry about as you are definitely not the type of person I am looking for anyway.

Romper
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 6:04:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Romper:
I also drive an unmarked patrol car. Lots of good advise already given. Don't do anything that would lead the officer to believe you are trying to get away for starters.
Public places are best, because most bad guys don't want an audience.
Asking for a marked unit, is not a problem.....keeping your head about you is ALWAYS the best advice for just about any situation.
I do make a significant amount of traffic stops, and from the LEO side of things you would be surprised at what folks will do in front of me that they will not do in front of a marked unit.....and for that matter how many times have you seen someone do something totally idiotic and wished that a cop was around?
My job description is a little varied compared to most officers, dignitary protective details, tactical call outs, teaching, and the like and one of the reasons I have an unmarked is most of the gear I am required to carry will not fit into a car, let alone one of the new "economy sized" patrol cars.
I know there are always going to be folks who will not be fond of us doing anything "sneaky" but if you are not doing anything you shouldn't then why worry.....I mean if the most outlandish thing you do is go 10mph over the speed limit then you absolutely have nothing to worry about as you are definitely not the type of person I am looking for anyway.

Romper


Your job sounds infinitely more entertaining than mine...I chose the wrong career path.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 7:16:46 AM EDT
"Sounds a lot more interesting" (sometimes than it actually is)......well it has its days, just like any other job out there and it also has its share of ups and downs just like every other gig.
A lot of people only see you kicking a door when doing a warrant or barricaded person, they instantly forget about standing around outside in sub zero temps for hours before hand waiting to do your job.......in only enough cold weather gear that you can move quickly in....or waiting around in a vehicle out of sight cramped up for hours at a time not being able to hit the rest room or stretch.

R
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:25:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheMirage:
Originally Posted By SamW:
Just stop and leave your window rolled up until you can see the uniform and udge for yourself. If you have any doubts, leave the window up and ask the officer to call in a marked car.

Taking off and/or not stopping is going to look bad no matter how you justify it. You're not going to impress the officer with your knowledge of the law whilst starting a low-speed pursuit


Good point. Just sitting there with the windows up and doors locked would probably be a better option. Thanks for adding that. That way you aren't immediately guilty of a serious misdemeanor and have to explain yourself out of it.


I have always heard to call the dispatch (or 911) tell them you are being pulled over by an unmarked police car, give them your location & request a marked car to arrive at the stop point too.

Anymore though if you are being pulled over there will be a back up car coming very soon anyway.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 6:35:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JustinS:
Your job sounds infinitely more entertaining than mine...I chose the wrong career path.


try doing the paperwork associated with these poor bastard's jobs... lol.

DISLIKE....

Link Posted: 1/30/2011 6:37:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dmacbow:
(Septic's even seen it if he remembers )


i do remember... ;)

unlike some of my local "FRIENDS" you didn't step on my neck or tease me about my hatred for magpul. my thanks for that!

Link Posted: 1/30/2011 7:19:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By septic-tank13:
Originally Posted By dmacbow:
(Septic's even seen it if he remembers )


i do remember... ;)

unlike some of my local "FRIENDS" you didn't step on my neck or tease me about my hatred for magpul. my thanks for that!



Oh I gotta remember this and explain how I do things dynamically.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 7:21:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By septic-tank13:
Originally Posted By JustinS:
Your job sounds infinitely more entertaining than mine...I chose the wrong career path.


try doing the paperwork associated with these poor bastard's jobs... lol.

DISLIKE....



Your paper work has to be quite tedious as well isnt it ?
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 8:57:16 AM EDT
some days are better than others...
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 1:23:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By septic-tank13:
Originally Posted By eightmillimeter:
...Now for the kicker, your chance of being victimized by an impersonator in IA are very low. When one of these assholes does something we find out about it VERY quickly and we go after them with a vengeance. Then when we catch them, we hammer them to the wall. We take these losers very seriously, and they go to jail, period.


lol... but if it happens to you, you're already dead or worse, right? "sorry, the chances were low you'd be abducted and raped so we advise you not play it safe and assume all is well. ...and sorry about you getting abducted and raped that time..." uh, no...

where is the logic in that?

sorry, but that is a FAIL in my book. i'm not advocating making calls when pulled over a habit. i AM saying if my wife is being hailed to stop by a car with no identifying markings and she questions it, pulling over on a country road in BFE isn't SOP for my family. you can't say definitively about the many in this state and others that go missing and are abducted and by what means or they'd most likekly be caught. i understand you're LE and i'm not trying to disrespect you, but some of the advice you gave above borders on irresponsible...


I know you aren't being disrespectful ST, but there just is NO history of this type of thing happening around here (violent crime/assault/rape etc). If I didn't give the impression that I care I didn't mean to. I totally understand how some people especially women could be skeptical at times, but there is a lot more to be said about one that can be totally aware of the environment than goes into panic mode every time they see a police car and feel like they need to call 911. The problem is this stuff is blown so far out of proportion, when one story shows up in the news it usually stems from and incident in the middle of Dallas or LA and makes every body hyper aware. We as gun owners get so frustrated when one news story is blown out of proportion that makes us look bad, same thing applies here. Your chances are greater of being killed in a car crash after being struck by lightning than to be abducted by a fake police officer.

The real bottom line with the whole thing, and I've seen this first hand, the advice everyone gives to call 911, DOESNT WORK when you are in a rural area, it MAY work in town where the same agency that is trying to pull you over actually answers your 911 call and can feasibly have a "marked car" there in under five minutes. It just simply gets tons more complicated than that when you try to do this in a rural area. Not very many sheriff deputies use unmarked cars, and at night people can meet a fully marked car and still not be able to tell. If you're getting stopped by an unmarked car in the middle of nowhere and you call 911, chances are your call will be answered by the county and when you say "hey there is someone behind me trying to pull me over is it safe I'm right by the corner of M45 and HWY10" chances are they are going to tell you, "no all of my officers are in the office right now", or after a brief pause "none of my deputies are in that area", which is only going to reinforce to the caller that the individual behind them is someone bad and they shouldn't stop. It could take them many minutes of calls and radio transmissions to find out that its a legit officer from another agency (boy I really hope we all keep our radios on scan).

Here is what you should do in this situation and some warning signs to watch out for.

1) Always know where you are, if you don't know, slow down and just go to the next intersection or mile marker so you can be sure exactly
2) If you must call, make it quick, tell them what is happening and where you are and then just leave the phone hot in your cup holder or in your hand
3) Explain to the officer when he comes to your window that you've made the call and that you're on the line and ask the officer to speak to the dispatcher to confirm who they are, then you could grab the phone back and the dispatcher could tell you for certainty its okay (i would gladly do this for anyone that asked, and it would take less than a minute), tell the dispatcher you'll call them back after the officer leaves ( a fake would probably run away at this point)

Now here are the things to watch out for:
1) Badge flashing, someone who pulls up next to you flashing a wallet badge (we don't do that, and THIS IS THE NUMBER ONE WAY FAKES STOP PEOPLE, and people still fall for it)
2) No uniform, even officers in unmarked cars who work traffic must be uniformed, and the uniform will look authentic (VAST MAJORITY OF FAKES HAVE NO OR A VERY BAD UNIFORM, you will never see the word security on a real police officers apparel)
3) IA ONLY, just a red or just a blue light, law enforcement MUST HAVE RED, all have red AND blue now today though (if it looks suspicious it probably is, a real unmarked car has lots of bright lights, believe me we want to be seen from a mile away)
4) Flashing headlights only (many "victims" pulled over for just flashing a badge or some fancy flashing headlights or even someone just flashing their brights, this is not how the real guys operate... be aware not stupid)
5) The guy sounds dumb, like a bumbling idiot and looks nervous, cant tell you that your headlight is out with a straight face

What to do in the worst? (Lets say you stopped and the guy in the black and white shirt that says POLICE in huge letters wont talk to the dispatcher and pulls a knife or something and demands your purse or even worse, tries to grab or tells you to "come with me", hell with that, ACTION BEATS REACTION step on the gas and get the hell out of there, and be sure to tell the 911 operator who you already have on the line and just heard and recorded the whole encounter.

And a final side note, due to the existence of a laptop computer in almost every police car now, it is pretty much SOP for the officer to ask someone to come back to the car with them to issue memos or citations, DO NOT BE ALARMED. If they have already proven to you they are who they say they are then just go with it, you'll get out of there faster and you'll have a better shot at a warning.

Again sorry if I seemed like I didn't care, I do and I understand. There are newer and better ways than the old thinking.




Link Posted: 1/30/2011 3:47:01 PM EDT
i get it 8mm, no worries. but the important thing to consider is logistics. when i give my wife these instructions i plan on them being followed ANYWHERE we are. we now have property in CO and travel east, south, and west often... what is a relative non-issue here may or may not be the case elsewhere. so i instruct her for what should be followed anywhere anytime as frankly, i'm not sure she recognizes the difference. besides, i'm not willing to allow my wife or daughter to be the first big news story of this kind. i'm sure you understand. this is about good judgement and preparedness, not distrust of my local LE. i'm not looking to make work harder for LE in any fashion, i'm just making sure my girls stay safe and routinely demonstrate good and sound common sense practices.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 7:34:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2011 7:58:33 PM EDT by yammerschooner]
I know you aren't being disrespectful ST, but there just is NO history of this type of thing happening around here (violent crime/assault/rape etc).


Other than Rebecca Hauser.

killed after teens pulled her over using flashing lights


While searching her name, I found this one which is a little more recent.

2004 incident


While it may not happen often, it isn't unheard of.

...and when it is, it tends to get overblown/stick in people's minds. I would never have guessed Hauser happened in 1994. It doesn't seem like that long ago.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:09:41 AM EDT
Your chances are greater of being killed in a car crash after being struck by lightning than to be abducted by a fake police officer.

Maybe so, but that's why I don't go running around with a flagpole during a thunderstorm.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 1:42:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By yammerschooner:
I know you aren't being disrespectful ST, but there just is NO history of this type of thing happening around here (violent crime/assault/rape etc).


Other than Rebecca Hauser.

killed after teens pulled her over using flashing lights


While searching her name, I found this one which is a little more recent.

2004 incident


While it may not happen often, it isn't unheard of.

...and when it is, it tends to get overblown/stick in people's minds. I would never have guessed Hauser happened in 1994. It doesn't seem like that long ago.



1 per 1.2 million population per 17 years... thats zero

And the DM incident was way overblown as it was, but thats where most of these things happen anyway

Women are running drugs for their gang banger boyfriends and driving drunk as much as if not more than men now. No one is entitled to ignore an unmarked police car (one that looks, smells, and sounds like and unmarked police car) simply because they are female and they are scared. I'm not going to chew their ass for not stopping as I can appreciate that they are trying to be safe, but they are going to be cited for failure to yield. If every woman I stopped at night did that you have absolutely no clue how much time it would waste and how many drunk drivers would otherwise slip through the cracks and how much drugs would not be seized.


Link Posted: 1/31/2011 3:28:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By eightmillimeter:


1 per 1.2 million population per 17 years... thats zero




True, but I still remembered it and before looking it up would have sworn it happened within the last decade, which is the more relevant fact when it comes to how people think. Go accost a journalist, one of these TV executives who makes their living producing crime shows, or any of the government entities whose job it is to justify further encroachment on civil liberties in order to save us from the mad bombers. It is their fault.

We live in a world where airports have become security theater and the Department of Homeland Security is urging us to turn in terrorists at Walmart, and then we wonder why people become paranoid.

Statistically, you are far more likely to be sexually assaulted by a police officer, which would be, if math had anything to do with it, a far better argument for not pulling over.

...but fortunately that statistic rounds to zero too.

I wasn't advocating anything other than pulling over.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 3:40:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By yammerschooner:
Originally Posted By eightmillimeter:


1 per 1.2 million population per 17 years... thats zero






Statistically, you are far more likely to be sexually assaulted by a police officer



Whoa where does this statistic come from
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:05:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 5:17:56 PM EDT by yammerschooner]
Originally Posted By rlarge10:

Whoa where does this statistic come from


Creston 2009

Des Moines 2010

I figured the number would work out to be statistically higher than 1 in 1.2 million over 17 years.

Before you misunderstand me, my poke was at using numbers to justify paranoia. It wasn't a run at cops. As mentioned, the number rounds to zero.

ETA since it seems I was misread: It was meant as satire, much like saying that a great way to cure Ireland's hunger problem is to eat the babies.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:23:27 PM EDT
Well, another thread headed for the shit can.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:33:48 PM EDT
The only time that I ever even see cops anymore is if I am doing IT stuff at the ISU police station. Usually ends up taking me longer than normal as I always end up in a great conversation with the officers.
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