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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/7/2005 5:55:19 PM EDT
A Tale of Two Machineguns - A Comedy

My class was tasked to write "informative speeches,” or speeches intended to inform the audience about a particular subject. (This is different from a "persuasive speech", where the speaker tries to convince the audience of something.) The topic I decided to talk about was the major steps necessary to purchase a machine gun in America. From the speech, these are, “A $200 tax, a chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) signoff, and affording their high cost, as since May of 86 new manufacture has been banned (no new supply vs increasing demand).” I cited the two relevant laws on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives’ webpage, a Cumberland Law Review article by David T. Hardy, and J.O. Bardwell’s famous 70 page NFA FAQ, and a bunch of other sources I threw in for the hell of it.

Imagine my surprise when the instructor told me that my speech was wrong and that I was lying. Furthermore, that I was “biased” and “purposely skewed the speech to imply that it is only this simple to buy machine guns.” For instance, the instructor pointed at my first sentence, “What if I told you that it is not illegal to own machine guns, silencers, sawed-off shotguns, grenade launchers, or mortars? (BATFE, National Firearms Act, 2005)” He told me that he knows that this is wrong, incorrect, essentially, BS.

Whether or not I had ‘evidence’ is irrelevant, as the assignment did not require or ask for it. The other classmates did speeches on dolphins, DVD formats, etc. and the instructor did not call them liars and demand evidence that dolphins or DVD formats exist. If the instructor thought I was lying, perhaps he should have spoken to me about it, instead of marking down grades for his own beliefs. I wouldn’t mind if I had been marked down because my speech sucked, or I had poor delivery, or any of that. But to grade down because, 'No, it can’t be like this, this MUST be wrong, skewed, BS' is wrong.

I cannot fathom how, with this overwhelming ‘evidence’ that takes only an internet connection and a few seconds to verify, an instructor could shake his head, call me wrong, and brush me off as a liar. Since he refused to listen to any of my evidence, I asked him how he knew I was full of it, to which he replied, “I used to work in a pawn shop, so I know this is wrong.”

Wow. Three government websites, two court cases, a Cumberland Law Review article, and the most respected FAQ on NFA legal issues ever written, all trumped by “I used to work in a pawn shop.” This illustrates a character, a frame of mind so closed off to any concept of the world other than his own, that I do not believe he is fit to be an instructor at UNLV.

-- Ok, this is an interesting story, but aside from learning that there's no need to make Works Cited pages because the instructors don't check any of your sources anyway, not especially surprising. But stay tuned for episode 2 where this degenerates into a cartoon.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 6:08:49 PM EDT

Careful. Will you have further dealings with this pawn shop employee? Not that working in a pawn shop is bad.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 6:12:30 PM EDT
Episode Two - A New Hope

So I flip to the Works Cited page and comment that wow, that David T. Hardy guy, his article was only cited as authority by the US Supreme Court in addition to having been cited by 11 of the 13 US Courts of Appeals. And damn, it has 519 footnotes/citations too. This doesn't work because remember, "I used to work in a pawn shop" > actual documentation. It's like playing paper-rock-scissors with a guy who uses "rocket launcher" and claims that beats everything, it's a futile argument.

Wait, how about typing in "How to buy a machinegun" with quotes into Google? Hey look, the first link returned shows that yessiree, those really are the 3 steps. Nope. "I know so" wins again, shit.

I knew this crap was coming, so I went digging in a bank vault and brought a recent Form 4. Ha! Form 4 beats pawn shop, right? So I'm like, "Hey look, here's the $200 tax stamp, here's the part where I say I don't beat my wife or sell crack for a living (which I discuss in my speech, of course), and here's the chief law enforcement officer signoff! Which step on here did I not discuss in my speech?"

Now you think the guy is going to be like, "Man, I'm not going to look at that," or something normal like that, but the guy grabs it out of my hand and is going over it like a pedophile over a pair of soiled panties. He's flipping back and forth, looking everywhere, which is quite a trick considering it's only only one page, before finally giving up and saying, "Well, this is evidence you didn't have in your speech. You didn't bring this when you gave your speech."

Well, yes. Maybe it was the part where he banned visual aids, or maybe it was the part where it's not very useful to have a visual aid that's 8" wide when giving speeches in a big classroom, or maybe it's the part where evidence isn't required for an informative speech, or maybe where it's the part where my form 4 and the info on it is none of the class's business.

So I tell him that obviously he is the expert and he knows better than me, much to his pleasure, and I ask him to point me out which part, even one line that I didn't cover in my speech. I was throwing the guy a bone here, as there's at least 2: One, I didn't discuss my ugly ass picture, and two, I didn't talk about the part where I sign my name. Incidentals, yes, but I'm giving the guy a chance to recover.

A normal guy would be like, "Hey, I give up, you got me there. I thought you were full of shit, but it looks like I'm full of shit," but not this guy. This guy starts flipping through my photocopies of the form 4 looking for something to call me on. I'm like, "Uhhh, yeah, those are photocopies. They're the same thing, I told you already," but this doesn't deter him from reading them too.

Not surprisingly, he doesn't find a damn thing, and kicks me out with, "Look, I can't spend any more time on this. You make it sound like people in class can just go buy a machinegun (which, as you know, they can, as long as they follow steps 1, 2, and 3 and don't go on serial-murderer sprees on their days off), and I know this is not true."

-- Ok, so we know that this guy, Robert Dubasbek or something like that, is a cartoon character. Talking to him is not going to get a serious response even if he hadn't refused to discuss it. Stay tuned for Episode 3, where I take his "kind suggestion" to discuss it with his boss.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 6:25:02 PM EDT
Episode Three - This is a Bureacracy

Since Dusbabek (or whatever his name is. Hey, I forgot, it happens) was literally yelling and screaming, I thought it was a good idea to run away. I ended up at the Communications department where I was told, "The Dean doesn't see students."

They stuck me with this mean looking woman instead who told me "I don't buy it" and that even if she had the power to do something, she wouldn't. She further explained, "This is a bureacracy." I'm not quite sure that that means, but I think it has something to do with sitting around and not doing anything.

She photocopied everything I had -- I'm not sure what there is to buy, since she had a copy of my speech word for word, my works cited, my outline, relevant sections from Bardwell's FAQ and Hardy's articles I printed out for people too lazy to look them up, and the grade sheet where he wrote down, "Buying a machine gun isn't quite as easy as you make it sound. -2"

She asks me to e-mail her, which I do, and she e-mails me back saying, "Too bad." I'm not really sure why we had to do the e-mail thing since she already told me she was going to rule against me, but I think it has something to do with the "This is a bureacracy" part.

Next I try to contact a guy called Burkholder, who chairs the department. The number Espin gave me comes up with, "The person at this extension is not available. Please try your call again later. *click*" every time I call, but since I am capable of using Google for not only "How to buy a machine gun," but also for "Tom Burkholder," I find his e-mail address and e-mail him.

He e-mails me back saying that he has "very serious doubts" regarding the "factual basis" of my "allegation." I believe this is the bureacratic way of calling me a liar and that I'm full of shit.

He must be Ms. Cleo's cousin or something, because I'm astounded at how he came to this conclusion having never met me. He also goes on to say that he has no way to know what my speech contained, or Dusbabek's critique, so too damn bad. Well shoot, I guess all those photocopies Espin made must have been just for fun or something then, and not for actually reading.

-- But wait! There's more! Episode Four, our dramatic conclusion has the actual "I don't see students" Dean! Stay tuned...
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 6:38:41 PM EDT
Would you hurry up, im tired of waiting. Most interesting read I have ever seen on here. I usually pass up the long winded speaches, but you have me waiting on the edge of my seat. I always knew them college blow hards were full of shit. WTG!
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 6:42:27 PM EDT
Episode Four -- The Peasant

So I get a message on my voicemail that says, "Hi, this is Dean Martha Watson. I see your name on my appointment sheet. Mr. Burkholder did NOT say you could see me. He said you could make an appeal to me in writing. Please call me back at blah blah blah... to discuss how to do this."

Now granted, English is my second language so maybe I'm not too good at understanding it, but the part in Burkholder's e-mail that says, "Should you be dissatisfied with my decision, I invite you to contact my supervisor, Dr. Martha Watson, Dean of the Greenspun College of Urban Affairs."

"Invited to contact" sounds awfully friendly, but I must be wrong, because how DARE I have my name on her appointment list.

So I call her up and asks how I'm doing. I believe I got as far as, "I'm doing al--" before she cuts me off and complains about me being in her book again. I feel bad for her assistant, because she probably got yelled at, and she seems like a nice person. Then she asks me if I have any witnesses. "Well sure, I have witnesses that heard my speech," I respond, which pisses her off greatly because she counters with, "One student's complaint is meaningless."

I figure there's two people in the world who know every word I've said is true, down to the most ridiculous, unlikely detail. Me, and this Dusbabek guy. So I try to make a deal with the Dean. I'll pay for a polygraph, and then we'll see who's full of shit. I imagine they're pretty expensive, but hey, I have a reputation to protect.

This is a pretty fair deal I think since it doesn't cost them anything, and Dusbabek, being a trained communications professional and former military, probably knows a lot more about lying than me, a yuppie kid who likes to wear Ralph Lauren and Polo shirts.

I have to find a roundabout way to phrase this offer, since I only get as far as "I'll make a dea--" before being cutoff with "No deals!" everytime, but I BS my way in eventually. She declines. Damn, there goes my idea.

Let's find out exactly how ridiculous her position is. I ask her, "What if I theoretically had a tape recording of the conversation? I don't, but let's pretend I did." This last line is important because it tells her that in reality, I have no damn evidence at all. She screams that this is illegal. I thought I lived in Nevada, which, like most states in the free US of A, has the one-party rule that says that if one party of the conversation (that is, the recorder) is aware, he doesn't have to tell anyone else.

I imagine it would be difficult to do stings if the wired guy had to get signature forms from all the mobsters. I tell her so, a bad idea, because apparently legal threats were her main form of attack (as you will see soon). Furthermore, she says that even if I had a tape, it wouldn't change anything, because "No matter what is on it, we like Dusabek. He's been working here for two years and we don't write people up because a student complains." Wow. Since it doesn't matter what he does, next time he should bend me over the table and buttrape me, since even if I have evidence, it doesn't mean jack.

She comes up with another one by claiming that she's going to call security on me next time for threatening people with machine guns by "waving a receipt around." Wait, what? How the hell do you threaten someone with a tax form for a 2" piece of metal? I go defensive-mode, which she acknowledges with, "I know that isn't your intent, but I'd call security on you for assault and threats anyway."

Holy shit. She just said that even though she knows I didn't threaten anyone, she'd call the fuzz on me ANYWAY. That's what happens when a peasant puts their name in the King's appointment book.

This is over -- the game is lost. "So about that appeal you talked about, where do I address that to?" The answer to this is the textbook, "No! There is no appeal! There's nothing to appeal! My answer is no!"

Uhh... alrighty then. What'd you leave a message saying I could for then, sheesh.

- Vincent "I'm not Subby" Wat
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 6:48:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 6:52:12 PM EDT by crapshoot]
Loved every word of it. Push the issue. Make the bitch and all the assholes eat your hat. Ignorance is bliss and absolute power is corrupt. Assclowns.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 6:55:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By crapshoot:
Loved every word of it. Push the issue. Make the bitch and all the assholes eat your hat. Ignorance is bliss and absolute power is corrupt. Assclowns.

A BIG +1
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 6:57:09 PM EDT
Maybe we should just invite the PRICK to a DBS shoot?......he could set up the targets...
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 7:13:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By E22CAPT:
Maybe we should just invite the PRICK to a DBS shoot?......he could set up the targets...

Damn good idea!
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 9:37:06 PM EDT
If it was any consolation the UNLV Dental School faculty and students almost make up our own militia with the pro gun group we have here. You should possibly look into getting a Lawer (preferably from the UNLV Law School, I know some real good guys from there) to keep pursuing this and get some justice.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 10:02:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Justy:
If it was any consolation the UNLV Dental School faculty and students almost make up our own militia with the pro gun group we have here. You should possibly look into getting a Lawer (preferably from the UNLV Law School, I know some real good guys from there) to keep pursuing this and get some justice.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 12:10:43 AM EDT
we need contact info to email the shit out of these lib types
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 12:14:45 AM EDT
Damn, what a fucked up bunch of crap. Down with the bureaucrats! Woohoo!

Good read, btw.

Maybe after I get my first NFA whatever, I can come down and put in a guest appearance for your next speech.

One thing about those types though, they never like to admit when they're wrong, and when it's plainly obvious that they are, they change tactics from denial to exactly what you described - the "stop pointing out I'm wrong or I'll screw up your life!" tactic. I see those damn people everywhere no matter what their political or social stripe. Fuck 'em.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 2:02:31 AM EDT
Good read. We need to get a group of local form four holders together and do some shooting.

Post some emails, I'm sure I could whip out a good NFA rant or two.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:08:31 AM EDT
just send the copies of the US Code and regs to prove your point
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:43:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By notsubby:
If the instructor thought I was lying, perhaps he should have spoken to me about it, instead of marking down grades for his own beliefs. I wouldn’t mind if I had been marked down because my speech sucked, or I had poor delivery, or any of that. But to grade down because, 'No, it can’t be like this, this MUST be wrong, skewed, BS' is wrong.

I just saw this thread and have a question:

What grade did he assign for your report?

When you are dealing with this type of problem, you need to be very careful.

As others have said, I would get a lawyer. I would not personally interact with anyone in the chain of command anymore. It sounds as if the Dean has indicated that she would lie to get you arrested and charged. This is serious stuff....

I think this is BS too. However, please recognize you have your freedom at risk. You need good legal representation and documentation to win this battle.

An avid MG collector and professor (not all academics are antis)
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:36:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crapshoot:
Loved every word of it. Push the issue. Make the bitch and all the assholes eat your hat. Ignorance is bliss and absolute power is corrupt. Assclowns.hr


Reminds me of my college days, when my Advertising Design I professor told me how "beautiful" and "positive" the LA riots were. Yeah, sure they were...her neighborhood Taco Bell wasn't burning down either. One of her many rants that annoyed me to death. hinking.gif
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:52:19 AM EDT
What kind of "Libby Bullshit" is being crammed down throats these days? I find it hard to believe such a large number of so called learned people can be so far off the mark! L.A. riots beautiful?? what a damn MORON, it was an excuse to sack rob and pilage.....I cant even begin to describe how ill this "Hell in a handbasket" nation with all of its circular logic makes me feel sometimes!

We are surrounded by insipid dolts....and we are fast becoming the minority.
*retch.....retch, urp.....(dry heeve)...retch, Damn I can still taste the Liberals!*

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:13:14 AM EDT
The whole UCCSN system is corrupt, both UNLV and UNR. The university system is a haven for dysfunctional, incompetent employees, ultra-left-wing socialists and communists who feel the world owes them a living, and empire-building bureaucrats.

Remember: Those who can, do; those who can't, teach.

As someone who spent 6 years at UNR working on BS and MS degrees in Civil Engineering, I can tell you, you aren't going to win. Suck it up, move on, finish your degree, and get on with life. It's a whole different ball game out in the real world...

Good luck!

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:27:15 AM EDT

^ +1

I too, say "let it go"........
May be a cheap lesson in how opposing forces close ranks; fortunately, not with dire consequences (prison, financial drain, etc.) Sometimes, ya gotta pick your fights, and this may not be one worth winning. It's kinda like "wrestling with pigs"..........
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 12:14:10 PM EDT
The End - Roll Credits

Hey folks. Regarding pursuing it or quoting US Code: The thing is, I cited both orally and in writing the relevant sections of the NFA and FOPA (McClure-Volkmer)-modified GCA Acts from BATFE's website. They're straight out of the US Code, in full. Of course, since the assignment didn't ask for scholarly or even real sources, in addition to the actual laws, some court cases, and a couple legal docs, I also threw in citations for easy, light sources like machinegundealer.com

So, it's not really about him really thinking he's right so much that he's closed minded to the point that he refuses to check any of them. It's not really that he made a mistake or misunderstands, as Google or any of the sources, from light to medium to hardcore will easy fix that.

But, I've reached the end of the line so to speak as far as pursuing it. I followed their chain of command, but they've abandoned the earlier full-denial strategy for offensive plays. I don't have any money, and I can't afford lawyers -- and besides, I don't think you can sue people for being assholes.

I figure all I can really do is let you guys know the story. Although they seem to want to sink me legally, I highly doubt they'll go the libel route, since the players involved know that not only is everything I said true, but I withheld a lot of 'ammunition,' and could make them look even worse. So, at the end, that's all I'm left with. I can let people know, and they probably won't touch me, but if I try anything else, they'll crush me with their superior resources and willingness to be evil.

Since some of you requested it, I went ahead and dug out some e-mail addresses:

Robert James Dusabek, the "Pawn shop > Evidence" guy; dusbabek@unlv.nevada.edu

Kathy Espin - I don't recommend e-mailing her, 'cause she's mean. It was her idea to the Dean to go the "I'm threatening and assaulting them with a piece of paper" route: espin@unlv.nevada.edu

Thomas Burkholder, the psychic who doesn't need to meet people or read any of the photocopies to call people liars: tburkholder@ccmail.nevada.edu

Dean (or Dr., or whatever she likes to be called) Martha Watson - I don't recommend e-mailing her either, because she's really nasty and has no qualms about admitting to setting people up: mwatson@ccmail.nevada.edu

To a large extent, I feel it's wrong that I'm giving up, because an instructor (and staff) like that makes all of our degrees worth that much less. Anything that hurts the reputation of the school makes our resumes that much weaker, but on the other hand, I'm glad people like that exist. I truly love this state, because it has so many astoundingly wonderful people in it. And without evil people as the yang, the yin wouldn't be able to shine so brightly.

Thanks for your support.

-Vincent "Doesn't Live in TX Anymore" Wat
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 12:32:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 12:35:09 PM EDT by ishoot2live]
Great read notsubby!

But on the other hand your situation is nothing more than a bunch of liberal bullshit. Liberals can't admit when they are wrong even if cold hard facts are presented. They just can't handle the truth. As the title of one of Michael Savage's books says: "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder."

I'll bet that if a motivated individual went into UNLV with an SKS and a pocket full of stripper clips and killed 25 people, the Dean would be holding press conferences outlining how easy it is to get a "Machine Gun Assault Weapon." Unfortunately they would show the steps of buying a "semi-automatic" rifle, while giving the impression that it was fully-automatic. The Dean would probably hold up a 4473 for the cameras and state that it is a Form 4.

Liberals make everything up as they go along, that's why they are such fucking idiots, because they refuse to follow facts and they have closed minds. They are driven by emotions not truth. Liberals make me violently ill. They are the true enemy of this country, as the title of another one of Michael Savage's books illustrates: "The Enemy Within." Liberals are the very ruination of everything that is free and righteous about America. They should be rounded up and shipped to camps where they can hug trees, beat drums, and sing Kumbaya.

Once again, that was a great read notsubby, and I wish you luck in your quest to have the truth validated.

Be Safe.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:35:18 PM EDT
I commend you for sticking it out for as long as you did. I'm not very diplomatic when it comes to things like this. As people say, I wear my heart on my shoulder. Seems like if it went the way them people were trying to make it, it would have been one of those "You won the battle, but not the war" situations and would've had dire consequences for you. Perhaps this way you may have not won the battle, but get your degree and get the hell out of there so you can win the war.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:45:29 PM EDT
Discretion is the better part of valor. Better to avoid any more potential problems by bowing out of the argument at this point (we already discussed in a previous thread, you may beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride). You don't have to admit they are right, just let it go. Save the righteous anger for a time when it will truly make a difference.
Thanks for the insight, I will be sure to do everything I can to make sure my Daughter does not attend UNLV in the coming years.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:37:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 10:38:29 PM EDT by ColSanders]
Isn't it amazing how irrational the sheep get, knowing that we as people, have the right to own guns? Truly amazing.

Notsubby- good read, I wish you the best resolving the issue, that is, if it is pursued.

Maybe we all should write letters to the Dean and Dubasbek. Or maybe we should write GOA or the NRA and see if they would put some pressure on the school. That would be great!

Hell, maybe the NRA (or someone else) would help you fight the cause...
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 9:19:20 AM EDT
Wow. This thread made me angry. I am terribly vexed.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 3:26:42 PM EDT
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