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Posted: 2/28/2006 4:09:38 AM EDT
[#1]
< Deleted per CoC >
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Posted: 2/28/2006 9:15:17 AM EDT
[#2]
The DPMS .22 is a better rifle and a 'real' AR.
Fat Bob at SGC sells them at hugely inflated prices, Oberland Arms in Germany sell them at a far more realistic price. ANdy |
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Posted: 2/28/2006 9:21:54 AM EDT
[#3]
How easy would it be to buy from Oberland???!!
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Posted: 2/28/2006 10:27:56 AM EDT
[#4]
No problem with inter EU sales as long as it's not a Section 5 part! www.oberlandarms.com/index.php?category=&id=0&page=internationalorder |
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Posted: 2/28/2006 1:25:36 PM EDT
[#5]
Hmmmm, what happens when you get a stuck case or a jam with the DPMS.
Yes, thats right, you have to pull it all apart. The V22 is a way better rifle. Dave, who has actually owned both.... |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 6:01:33 AM EDT
[#6]
V22 gives you the CZ barrel quality...
Mine certainly shoots miles better than a DPMS at my club Richard |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 6:04:35 AM EDT
[#7]
No problem with inter EU sales as long as it's not a Section 5 part! www.oberlandarms.com/index.php?category=&id=0&page=internationalorder[/quote Do Oberland make UK legal AR 15's ? |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 6:09:07 AM EDT
[#8]
.22's, but they say the can supply anything you want. Email and ask, they speak perfect english. ANdy |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 6:10:42 AM EDT
[#9]
Cheers Vito!
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Posted: 3/1/2006 6:26:33 AM EDT
[#10]
I can't believe this, two ACTUAL owners opinions saying the V22 is better and yet people are still talking about Oberland and the DPMS.
Don't say we didn't warn you..... |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 6:33:53 AM EDT
[#11]
Easy tiger that was just a quick thread hijack enquiring about Oberlands .223 rifles.
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Posted: 3/1/2006 6:35:05 AM EDT
[#12]
Elucidate
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Posted: 3/1/2006 6:40:58 AM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 3/1/2006 6:51:26 AM EDT
[#14]
Yup. Thats me. Crybaby.
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Posted: 3/1/2006 7:27:29 AM EDT
[#15]
I've spyed 3 different letters from customers who bought the DPMS rifle from Bodmin Bob 'the fitness freak'
 returning them asking for their money back.One after only 50 rounds, not a good advert for the rifle. Not sure of the faults but they weren't the same. |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 7:34:06 AM EDT
[#16]
I also watched a gypsy looking guy nearly take Bobs head off at last years Phoenix show because of the DPMS reliability issues.
He near shit himself. |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 7:46:29 AM EDT
[#17]
There are people in this world who would have reliability issues with an SMLE!
ANdy |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 7:53:44 AM EDT
[#18]
thats not the point though is it.
The people who have owned a DPMS, bearing in mind not many people have, say it's unreliable and a pain to operate. People who have owned a V22 say its a different and better animal. Just stating facts..... |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 8:02:02 AM EDT
[#19]
Many people say the USGI M261 .22 adaptor is an unreliable POS too, mine runs rather well...
Just stating facts... |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 8:09:59 AM EDT
[#20]
Yeah, but I actually owned both items on discussion, as does Richard. Bit different then aint it
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Posted: 3/1/2006 8:12:35 AM EDT
[#21]
Vito
Have you actually got one of the DPMS rifles? The two I know of have been nothing but trouble and lets be honest here you can get a real gun for the price of the DPMS, my friends specced up came in at nearly £1300 Richard |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 8:21:49 AM EDT
[#22]
I had the (modified) M261 in a Bremmer, I thought that worked really rather well 
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Posted: 3/1/2006 9:00:27 AM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 3/1/2006 9:36:58 AM EDT
[#24]
EDITED TO ADHERE:
Vito, oh esteemed holder of the lock button. I think the point that I and maybe some other members of this board are trying to get across is as such. You are a moderator with several posts under your belt, so a newcomer may be confused and take that as a guarantor of knowledge on the subject of AR15's. However, I am not too sure this is the case, as I have owned and operated articles mentioned previously and have real world experience. It would not be unfair to say that you have considerably less experience in this field than me and Richard H. So I was offering up a more informed opinion. |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 10:11:52 AM EDT
[#25]
.
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Posted: 3/1/2006 10:42:23 AM EDT
[#26]
 
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Posted: 3/1/2006 10:48:30 AM EDT
[#27]
and this used to be such a friendly forum
 Opinions are like assholes guys, everybodys got one. So lets respect 'um. |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 11:18:37 AM EDT
[#28]
And can you tell me why you deleted the first post? Which contained nothign but a link??????
The V22, which is a better rifle is available from Sid at HSLD, whom I'm sure 99% of members on this board would agree, is THE expert when it comes to making and modifying .22LR AR's Sid at HSLD can be contacted via http://www.combatrifle.com I don't think that breaks any rules does it?? Dave |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 11:23:28 AM EDT
[#29]
.
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Posted: 3/1/2006 11:23:54 AM EDT
[#30]
Play nice!
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Posted: 3/1/2006 1:53:42 PM EDT
[#31]
Carry on...
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Posted: 3/1/2006 2:03:32 PM EDT
[#32]
Who are these 99% of members that agree Sid is THE expert when it comes to making and modifying .22LR AR's?? |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 2:34:17 PM EDT
[#33]
The members not including you and matt :-). There a LOT of people just read this board and don't post.
Maybe 99% is stretching it a bit.... I must say, via combatrifle, I get 10 e-mails a week asking about Sids work, and about 2 a month asking about Matts, just seems as if more people are interested in .22LR. I dont know anyone else in the UK that can make fore-ends with rails, from scratch. |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 2:41:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Actually, it seems , looking at the site stats as if Mr Greenall needs to update his site with some pretty pictures, the short review of the rifle Matt Built for me has had 1485 page impressions in the last month.
Thats number one on the site right now...... |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 2:49:57 PM EDT
[#35]
That's a bit vague in the least. Sounds like the old "8 out of 10 cat owners said their cat preferred......." ad's
OK, so how many has he sold? Besides most of Matt's work is via word of mouth.
What's the point when you can buy one from the US that doesn't look gash I don't doubt that Sid has a talent, but I do feel that like many others, he's just playing at it. Fact is gentlemen, the UK's greatest gunsmith is............................................................. Me
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Posted: 3/1/2006 5:02:39 PM EDT
[#36]
Any of you ever try the CLE or AccuracySpeaks conversions? How do they compare to what is commonly available to you?
I bought an AS when it was the only game in town. With decent ammo (RWS Target) I have been able to clean the a36 (international 50ft) target. Realistically, it is about a 9.7 setup, but it is fun to shoot. Not trying to add fuel or water to the fire, just curious. SRM |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 9:44:07 PM EDT
[#37]
I have an Accuracy Speaks .22 upper. 'bout as reliable as any of the Ceiner kits providing you do all the mods. I've had it 5 years now and it's still fun...................when it runs Mark |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 9:45:01 PM EDT
[#38]
Matt needs to update a lot of things, but there are only so many hours in the day Mark |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 11:45:49 PM EDT
[#39]
I think people are losing site of what all these kits were designed for: -
That is, a low cost training option for the military, they don't have to be 100% combat reliable; they are a training tool! Ok, there are adaptations that have been made to make the accuracy greater, and of course the designs are very different in manufacture. However, they all use blowback as the method of operation. That combined with the nature of many .22 RF rounds (dirty and waxy) can lead to reliability problems. Yes, you can fine tune the action and be selective in your choice of ammunition. But, the fact remains they were not designed to be combat reliable! The V22 are nice uppers, as are the DPMS ones, I have seen the V22’s play up just as much as the DPMS ones. I have a ceiner kit, which of course throws the odd spacca too! The problems I have seen with the ‘Beast Of Bodmin’s’ DPMS kit revolved around the bolt face and the extractors hitting the chamber face, i.e. not aligned properly. This caused a burr on the chamber entrance, which closed down the diameter of the chamber entrance and prevented reliable feeding of the .22 round. A bit of file action with some Autosol helped it back to good operation. With the V22’ I have seen the kit require nothing but the highest power .22 RF to get them to cycle. An extended break-in period and some tweaking of the springs helped there. The ciener, can be picky with feeding from the magazine, and can also be prone to firing pin breakage. Ok, these are not exhaustive lists of faults in any of the kits and I am not saying which is better or ‘my dog is bigger than your dog’. However, one thing across the board is common, if you want them to last, don’t dry fire them, or allow them to slam shut on any empty chamber. Back to my original point:- They are training units not combat units! Tweaking and gentle care is required |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 12:28:22 AM EDT
[#40]
Dammit Paul,
Here we are, having fun, even getting locks, and you come along with common sense. Thats what should have been said from the start really. Both the DPMS Rifles and the V22 Rifles are rubbish from the box, they definately require some tweaking. At least one Bodmin based gunsmith I know of supply's them untouched and therefore very unreliable. In terms of day to day reliability when tweaked, the V22 seems to have the edge over the DPMS, also given the factor that stuck cases are removed within seconds on a V22 and minutes on a DPMS. The other advantage for the V22 is as Richard pointed out, a CZ Match Barrel, a better barrel than any of the competition. With the V22 though, it does need the springs tweaking and a lighter hammer, at which point it will run subsonics all day long. However, the magazines get dirty very quickly. Like 500 rounds quickly. So, don't expect to be able to buy a .22LR AR15 clone without having to get some work done on top, the supplier you mentioned will not do this for you. You would have to speak to someone else. The reason I mentioned the supplier I did is that their lead time on a customised .22LR AR is approx 1 month, and all other suppliers seem to take about 3-6 months. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 1:46:13 AM EDT
[#41]
My .22 is based on the M261 kit, but with a proper barrel rather than the chamber adapter.
It'll run fine for a couple of hundred rounds, and by then it'll be so dirty that the bolt grinds to a halt. So I have to take it apart to clear the crud out for the next couple of hundred... The above doesn't apply in competitions, where it will usually stop during each 10 round string... 
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Posted: 3/2/2006 10:14:12 AM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 3/2/2006 10:15:09 AM EDT
[#43]
99% is perhaps a little ambitious That said I can only speak as I find, I have had several .22 AR's in different flavours, other than the Bodmin based business very few RFD's are really interested in rimfires since Sabre stopped production of the Bremmer, if you are looking for a non standard configuration it becomes almost impossible. Perhaps the margins aren't there for most businesses, perhaps the market is too small particularly if every build is different but Sid was the only RFD interested in building a rifle to my spec and to my timescales, I've seen other one off jobs he's undertaken and been very impressed. There are undoubtedly other RFD's with the necessary skills and machinery but very few will undertake one off .22 builds in a realistic timeframe and at realistic cost, personally if he wants to make this niche his own the best of luck to him. I'll put up some pictures of mine when I get it back and we can all draw our own conclusions  Just my humble thoughts for the little they are usually worth Richard 
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Posted: 3/2/2006 10:31:52 AM EDT
[#44]
F**king 1% is ambitious
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Posted: 3/2/2006 11:28:04 AM EDT
[#45]
Well, how many regular posters are on this UK board?
10? -15? So that makes between 10 and 20% by my maths. The quality of his work is excellent, and is better than any gunsmith i have personally bought products from so far. (not just AR stuff I mean). As richard says, his timescales and the fact he's an RFD weigh heavily in his favour for .22LR work. The fact remains however, I could wipe Sid, Mark, Matt and Bob off the face of the UK AR producing world just by supplying faster than 6 months. AR's take SO long to assemble the parts from all the different places in the US if someone could keep a stock and supply within a week, none of you would have any customers left. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 11:52:52 AM EDT
[#46]
That's between 79-89% less than you already quoted
I like the way you said "I have personally bought from so far". Does this mean you have someone else to buy from in the future
So how many .22's has he sold?? and if he want's to stick to .22's then go right ahead. They don't float my boat.
Wanna bet?  It's not about quantity, it really is about quality. Anyone can take a pile of proprietary parts and throw them together, but do you really know about barrel making and the intricacies (having trouble with that word) of building an accurate rifle or even finishing it so as to make it presentable. I do and 27 years in engineering is my CV for deciding what's acceptable and what isn't. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 12:25:30 PM EDT
[#47]
£1,300… that's a lot of 'bling on a .22 DPMS..and no .22 is 'absolutely faultless'... that's a fact of .22 life. I was quoted £750 for a DPMS on an Oberland lower, (not one of Fat Bobs el cheapo diecast bits of tat) with a Bull Barrel and a free float handguard... Only reason I did not buy was an almost new Bremmer was offered to me for £400 ANdy |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 1:40:57 PM EDT
[#48]
My Oberland lower is actually a Rock River Arms lower, so you could be on winner there....
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Posted: 3/2/2006 1:56:12 PM EDT
[#49]
Fat Bob's lowers are shit
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Posted: 3/2/2006 1:58:29 PM EDT
[#50]
Wish i wouldve known better before i got mine  James |
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