Ok here goes...

82ndAbn said it would be ok to start a thread with a UK bias, themed towards UK shooting and UK shooters topics.

Obviously I'm from wales and I shoot weeky at my little clubs 25/50m range with visits often to Brecon military ranges.

I'd be interested to hear from other UK shooters about shooting clubs, disciplines, expieriences etc also it can be hard sourcing spares so any info there is always appreciated.

I'd like to hear more about UK Highpower Rifle and what's required etc

We don't have many gun shows here in Wales so I'd be interested in shows in the border regions.

Pics of other rifles are always intersting and how modifications have performed.

Cheers

Taffy

Taff,
I'll reply to your thread, You want to know about UK Highpower Rifle.
I'm the guy who got the ball rolling. It's a long story as to how we got it started, but we've now been shooting Highpower regularly for 5 years now here in the UK.
Most events take place at Bisley on a  roughly monthly basis.
The rules follow the US NRA rules closely, albeit for some enforced changes to rifle specs for Service Rifle.
Because of the way we started shooting the discipline, it was decided to start a club, The Highpower Rifle Association. We have a website, www.highpowerrifle.co.uk (sorry,don't know how to make links hot). The club has somewhere in the region of 70 members.
The website has all the rules and regulations on it. Take a look.
Most people shoot AR's. In fact most people that I know who shoot have AR's, and several of them.
But the sport does cater for other rifle types and we run 5 classes, Service, Match, Veteran, Classic and Optic.
We are recognised by our NRA as the governing body and are also affiliated to the US NRA.
IN fact, we are the only club outside the US that has permission to hold officially sanctioned matches Therefore, those that have shot Highpower in America can submit scores for classification.
As well as Highpower, we also shoot UK Service rifle. This is combat style shooting on fig type targets.
Every year, The NRA hold the Service Rifle Championships at Bisley in July. This is a military event that is shot by Armed Forces members from most units in the British military as well as competitors from abroad.
It usually attracts entrants from countries such as Oman, USA (National Guard), Canada, Auatralia, New Zealand, Holland, South Africa, Brunei, Fiji and recently, Ireland.
Civilians can partake in these matches and compete for the Civilian SR Championship.
The Event culminates in a 7 man team match called the Methuen Cup.
Throughout the year, we run an on-going classification ladder for our Methuen Cup teams (we have two). These places are hotly contested and because of this, we always have the strongest team in the competition and have never lost the match in five years.
Last year was our finest moment when we beat everyone in the British armed forces and came 2nd to the Omani's by only 35pts!! The Omani's are probably the best Combat shooting team in the world. They're a professional team.
This raised a lot of questions in the military and even in parliament as to how a civilian team could beat the best in the British military. It even caused the Omani's some concern.

The other shooting discipline that most of our members shoot  is Practical Rifle.
There is a national PR league. It consists of approx 12-13 comps.
Practical Rifle and Service Rifle are essentially the same but for the fact that PR is a bit more open.
Again it's our club and members who take most of the accolades in these competitions.
We are undoubtedly, the best club going

Mark
There is a match at bangor on 25th Feb. Interested??

Thanks for that Mark I'll take some time out to read all the rules.
I'm a tad concerned as my back is buggered (could you recomend a discipline suitable)and shooting from standing even with my light M4 can be painfull. There's another guy (good friend of mine) in my club with the longer 20" rifle who may be interested too

It sounds like you've achieved a lot with so many different entrants from so many different countries I'd love to pop down even if only as a spectator to watch.

just for interest I've another thread in the reloading forum where I've been experimenting with casting lead bullets for reloading and shooting in the AR with great results.

Cheers

Taffy

Taffy,
You'll always be welcome.
We always have fun when we're shooting.
I've been trying to get that Vito bloke to come shooting,but he's not taking the bait
One of you has to come shooting with us at some stage.

I also build rifles. Mainly AR's and Rem 700's.
They're winners.
Forget Sabre and Southern Gun, it's our rifles that do all the winning
Take a look at www.ar15.co.uk and you'll get some idea.

Where in Wales are you??

Mark

ahhhhem Mark

Matt built my AR...so i guess you are involved too. Great build quality by the way. Very impressed.
I'm in between Cardiff and Swansea.

Vito must be scared...."taunts"

I heard SGC had reasonable quality rifles but due to excessive orders lead times on rifles can be long. Matt sorted me out in a few weeks (with a few prods hehe).

When the weather improves and the cold is'nt giving my back grief I promise to visit a shoot even if it is only to watch.

Cheers

Taffy

82ndAbn you've been more than helpful .....thanks

I've spent a lot of time at various chat sites over the years and I'm still getting to grips with this type of forum. All us newbies make many mistakes but i have tried to read a lot of threads to make sure i dont duplicate but with so many topics it could be imposible to not cover some topics more than once...but is that a bad thing?

so 82ndabn as you are the monitor for this area how's about you tell us a bit about yourself?



Cheers

Taffy

I also build rifles. Mainly AR's and Rem 700's. They're winners. Forget Sabre and Southern Gun, it's our rifles that do all the winning

what's the UK law require to build and get rifles proofed?

RFD i presume is a cert but how involved is that?

I'm an MOD trained aircraft fitter with 20yrs expierence and have worked with a wide variety of matierials from nitrided aircraft hydraulic struts thro titanium to thin aluminium skins
how hard can it be to throw (coughs) an AR together?

I DO appreciate the skill comes with expierience and nothing replaces expierience. I don't want to demean that...just got thoughts of building rifles would be a nice way of earning an income but i imagine UK laws are pretty restrictive when it comes to this

cheers

Taffy

Quoted: Vito must be scared...."taunts"

Vito's on crutches…

ANdy

sorry to hear that Andy....I hope it's a temporary thing?.

even so I'm sure we can organise some transport for ya.

Cheers

Taffy

Quoted: what's the UK law require to build and get rifles proofed? RFD i presume is a cert but how involved is that?

Taffy,

First off I'm glad you like your rifle and thanks for the praise.

You're right, all it takes is an RFD and suitable skills, tools and knowledge. And for the AR there isn't too much in the way of skill needed to assemble them. If you buy barrels ready made then it is just a case of bolting them together. (It's not too hard but it has to be done right or it'll fall apart or not work too well.) The skill comes in the barrel chambering which can make or break any rifle as far as accuracy goes. When it comes to bolt guns like the Remington there is quite a bit more skill needed.

To get the RFD you need to jump through hoops more so than with the grant of the FAC (although the form is a lot shorter) and get a suitable premises to trade from. Then there is the security systems to think about and these requirements vary between Police Forces and each unique situation.

Anyway, that's the short story.

Is it you I'm sending a trigger to (Richard)? If it is, it's on its way, parcelled up and just waiting for me to walk to the Post Office and drop it in the slot (but by the way I'm shooting these last few weeks I'll probably miss the first few tries).OH, forgot the poorf bit. Anyone can take a rifle to one of the Proof Houses and have it proofed (or should that be prooved?) for anything from less than £10.00 to nearly £40.00per gun depending on the quanty and whether you're standing there waiting or not. Before any firearm in the UK can be sold it has to have a valid proof mark from one of the two UK Proof Houses or from a recognised foreign proof house.

Quoted: sorry to hear that Andy....I hope it's a temporary thing?. even so I'm sure we can organise some transport for ya. Cheers Taffy

No, it's a 'permanent' thing… I need a total left knee replacement op… Quack reckons 5-6mths wait…

ANdy

Taffy,
Well it is a small world.....
I asked Matt if he'd sold a rifle to someone in your area and he gave me your name,
Now I know who you are.
I was going to answer your questions, but as Matt has now found this forum, he's answered them instead.
You should ask him about the time we went to Brecon in his Land Rover during the fuel strike loaded up with Jerry cans full of Diesel, only to find out that all the service stations on the motorway  actually had fuel

I've been telling a few others about this forum and hopefully they'll come along soon
I expect St Albans to start posting any time (if you can be bothered Nick)

Vito, sorry to hear about the Knee, what with your arm and eye problems etc, you really are starting to fall apart
I now understand why you're not coming to Fingringhoe

Now that we're starting to discover these pages, hopefully it won't be too long before this place is swinging.
Any other Europeans out there? Hello'o, anyone?

Hey 82nd, If this keeps up, we'll have to make you an honorary Brit and get you a straight-pull AR

Mark

Quoted: 82ndabn as you are the monitor for this area how's about you tell us a bit about yourself? Outside of my military service, there isn't much I could tell you that would be very captivating. Hey 82nd, If this keeps up, we'll have to make you an honorary Brit I'd be honored.

right then 82nd as an initiation into the UK EYES ALPHA thread you gotta tell us bout ya military service.....lets all be honest...it's what we wanna hear about....ohhh but we'd also love to hear about ya non-military background.....where ya from...what do you do...how did you find this forum etc etc



Cheers

Taffy


Oi


don't be shy...you can trust me ....I'm a doctor.....


Taffy

You should ask him about the time we went to Brecon in his Land Rover during the fuel strike loaded up with Jerry cans full of Diesel, only to find out that all the service stations on the motorway actually had fuel

well you boy scouts gotta be prepared...lol.......ewwwww NATO ration packs....orders full brecky (no bacon burger) with black pudding....hmmmm.....no lava bead tho...lol

Always plenty of fuel here .....the donkeys eat hay..."coughs"...laffin

Land Rover?....so you "upper class" ? barber jacket and trousers shooting stick and deer stalker hat?....

Cheers

Taffy

Matt/Mark
I'm Kieran...I've yet to get Ritchie to post here but I'm working on it.
"fingers crossed"
Ritchie was with me when he ordered the new trigger and I inquired bout the Chip McC drop in trigger....I'll pass on to him the fact his spares are on their way

Pheeew...good job I was not slagging Matt's rifles off....dewwww(as we welshies say) we could have been in some deep doodoo...dew butty this internet thingy can be a small place....lol....

there was no sucking up to Matt as I never knew he posted here....but dewww he makes a quality rifle


Cheers

Taffy

n.b ...still needs to familiarise myself with the UK highpower and service rifle disciplines.

Quoted: Quoted: sorry to hear that Andy....I hope it's a temporary thing?. even so I'm sure we can organise some transport for ya. Cheers Taffy

No, it's a 'permanent' thing… I need a total left knee replacement op… Quack reckons 5-6mths wait…

Fecking waiting lists....I've been through the mill too mate ..MRI XRAY etc etc...payed £2500 privatley for my first opp....jeez some consultations cost me £130 for 10 minutes to be told...."nothing I can do for you"

god bless the NHS.......NOT!!!!...gits

Taffy

Vito my back is buggered but where are you in UK could I pick you up on the way to a match?

Quoted: Quoted: what's the UK law require to build and get rifles proofed? RFD i presume is a cert but how involved is that? Taffy, First off I'm glad you like your rifle and thanks for the praise. You're right, all it takes is an RFD and suitable skills, tools and knowledge. And for the AR there isn't too much in the way of skill needed to assemble them. If you buy barrels ready made then it is just a case of bolting them together. (It's not too hard but it has to be done right or it'll fall apart or not work too well.) The skill comes in the barrel chambering which can make or break any rifle as far as accuracy goes. When it comes to bolt guns like the Remington there is quite a bit more skill needed. To get the RFD you need to jump through hoops more so than with the grant of the FAC (although the form is a lot shorter) and get a suitable premises to trade from. Then there is the security systems to think about and these requirements vary between Police Forces and each unique situation. Anyway, that's the short story. Is it you I'm sending a trigger to (Richard)? If it is, it's on its way, parcelled up and just waiting for me to walk to the Post Office and drop it in the slot (but by the way I'm shooting these last few weeks I'll probably miss the first few tries). Matt OH, forgot the poorf bit. Anyone can take a rifle to one of the Proof Houses and have it proofed (or should that be prooved?) for anything from less than £10.00 to nearly £40.00per gun depending on the quanty and whether you're standing there waiting or not. Before any firearm in the UK can be sold it has to have a valid proof mark from one of the two UK Proof Houses or from a recognised foreign proof house.

Hiya Matt

cheers for the info.....very informative...

do you buy all your piece parts from the USA?....uppers/lowers/barrels etc

what sort of cost are we talking here?


If this question infringes upon your sales/profit margin and you wish to keep this private then I can understand you not wanting to answer...

Cheers

Taffy

ponders the handle/nickname "Scope-eye"......well Matt with a nickname like that I'd hate to shoot against you

call me ...

"blind pew"

lol

Taffy

Have any of you served in the armed forces?

Apart from 6 weeks in the Royal Marines Reserve when I was 18, the answer is no.
And that was a long time ago.
Vito works for the Navy.
We do have a few members in our club who are serving presently

Mark

Signed up at last! Another UK PR and Highpower shooter

Quoted: Signed up at last! Another UK PR and Highpower shooter

Made it then,
Welcome aboard, I know you've been lurkin' for years.
Got to clean the gun now, that 450rds today has made it pretty manky.
BTW the living room looks like an ammo dump at the moment.

Hey 82nd, you're gonna have to start pickin' up on British slang otherwise you're gonna get left behind.
Although I'm personally having trouble understanding Taffy


Mark

I'm here as well now!

The UK Highpower take-over continues......Nick

Quoted: I'm here as well now! The UK Highpower take-over continues...... Nick

I think we're going to have to rename this forum soon

Mark

Although I'm personally having trouble understanding Taffy

We're all a bit missunderstood over here...

Cheers

Taffy

82nd had better find a modern day Paul Revere, 'The British are coming, the British are coming"

Quoted: Quoted: I'm here as well now! The UK Highpower take-over continues...... Nick I think we're going to have to rename this forum soon Mark

Mark why don't ya start a thread just for info on forthcoming matches/results from UK Highpower

ex-Highpower shooter (sorry Mark, the airsoft pistols are just too enticing hough.
SteveA

I thought ARs were mostly illegal in the UK??

Quoted: I thought ARs were mostly illegal in the UK??

Only the 'good' ones…

Semi-Auto centre fire is banned, but semi-auto rimfire conversions are OK…

The .223 AR's are 'straight pull' … no gas piston… personally I can't see the milage in that…  I'll get a Remington 700 for 'bolt action'.

ANdy

Quoted: Quoted: I thought ARs were mostly illegal in the UK?? Only the 'good' ones… Semi-Auto centre fire is banned, but semi-auto rimfire conversions are OK… The .223 AR's are 'straight pull' … no gas piston… personally I can't see the milage in that…  I'll get a Remington 700 for 'bolt action'. ANdy

Ohhh....  I see.  That sucks.  No magazine restrictions?

Of course, you guys can't defend yourselves with them anyway without an almost certain trip to the pokey, correct?  So at that point I guess it doesn't matter that much.  Sad.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ohhh....  I see.  That sucks.  No magazine restrictions? Of course, you guys can't defend yourselves with them anyway without an almost certain trip to the pokey, correct?  So at that point I guess it doesn't matter that much.  Sad.

No magazines restrictions… we can put a Beta Mag, silencers (they actually encourage the fitting of these), 12" barrels, collapsing stocks or a bayonet on our AR's if we want…  

The rumours of not being able to defend ourselves is wildly exagerated… … We can use 'Reasonalbe Force', if he's armed I may regard a .357FMJ as a 'resonable' response.

ANdy

Quoted: The .223 AR's are 'straight pull' … no gas piston… personally I can't see the milage in that…  I'll get a Remington 700 for 'bolt action'. ANdy

HA - An unbeliever!!  ht-pull

We don't change the timings used for Highpower, and still manage to have time left over on the rapid fire stages....

Nick

ANdy

Somewhat optimistic I think, in the UK even if you used a Legally held gun to ‘defend’ yourself, you would, at best, have used the last gun you are ever likely to own (revoked FAC).
Or, more likely you would be detained at Her Majesties pleasure.
There are just too many forgive and forgetter’s out there.
(Forgive the criminal – Forget the Victim!).

Not to mention gun fighting with a ‘long arm’ in a confined space!  [:\]

Most free float AR's can give as good, if not better results as Rem 700's of the same calibre.

Lack of semi-auto hasn't dropped the Highpower scores by much, if anything!
And the Practical Rifle scores have gone up!
However, we ALL would love the return of SA but it ain't gonner happen

Quoted: ex-Highpower shooter (sorry Mark, the airsoft pistols are just too enticing ) I do see some service rifle in my future, though. SteveA

Is that you "Self"? I didn't know you hung out here

Working on the ammo thingy

Mark

Quoted: ANdy Somewhat optimistic I think, in the UK even if you used a Legally held gun to ‘defend’ yourself, you would, at best, have used the last gun you are ever likely to own (revoked FAC). Or, more likely you would be detained at Her Majesties pleasure. There are just too many forgive and forgetter’s out there. (Forgive the criminal – Forget the Victim!). Not to mention gun fighting with a ‘long arm’ in a confined space!  [:\] Most free float AR's can give as good, if not better results as Rem 700's of the same calibre. Lack of semi-auto hasn't dropped the Highpower scores by much, if anything! And the Practical Rifle scores have gone up! However, we ALL would love the return of SA but it ain't gonner happen

Well……

Given the choice of being the latest 'shock horror!!! householder stabbed to death' story on the front of the tabloids or arguing the toss in court afterwards… I think I might opt for the latter… 7 years for 'assault with a firearm' or dead forever……

Agreed, even if I was cleared I 'may' have my licence revoked… but consider, A Judge recently ruled that a farmer was acting 'reasonably' when he shot a burglar in the leg without giving a warning, and he kept his licence.

A Marlin 1894c is a very handy-dandy little rifle… one of my favourites to shoot…

As to the rifles… I suppose an AR could match a Remi 700 but as I'm forced to shoot left handed due to a blind right eye if I can't have a semi, (which I find easier to use like most lefties) I might as well have a left handed Remi for a lot less money… unless of course someone makes a left handed Enfield NoIV or KAR98k

ANdy

I might as well have a left handed Remi for a lot less money… unless of course someone makes a left handed Enfield NoIV or KAR98k ANdy

You have no taste

Mark

Quoted: Quoted: I thought ARs were mostly illegal in the UK?? Only the 'good' ones…he ANdy

I didn't think the AR had pistons.
Actually, the UK legal AR15 can have exactly the same parts as the US AR15 (and even some M16 parts) as long as the barrel is not drilled for the gas port. I should know I've built a few and even had the Forensic Science Services take one for a look. It seems to be that you're not anybody on the UK shooting scene unless the FSS have had a look at your guns or you've had the early morning 'knock' from the Feds.

We can have bayonets, sound suppressors and 100round mags if you really want, and these little black rifles still out perform the bolt-guns at nearly every practical rifle, high power rifle, and service rifle match.

For a while now the ARs keep winning matches. Last year an AR15 won the PR Nationals (well done Streetfighter), and another won the long-range match of the same competition (me he
I have bolt guns, but they know there place and they don't bad-mouth the black rifles.

Matt

Quoted: As to the rifles… I suppose an AR could match a Remi 700 but as I'm forced to shoot left handed due to a blind right eye ANdy

Andy,

I'm left handed, and I have 4 ARs of various sizes/calibres, and a Rem700 LH (in 308 and 6.5-08 with 20 round mags) as well as other LH bolt guns. The ARs are as easy to operate left-handed as right-handed.  

LH Rem700s are not easy to come by in short action, and they cost more than a RH version. I know Remington have started making the LH SA action again, but unless you want to re-barrel it you don't get much choice in calibre/twist rates/stocks etc, and you're stuck with limited mag capacity unless you spend the money to get a mag conversion (and then you're spending more than an AR costs).

Matt

Quoted: cheers for the info.....very informative... do you buy all your piece parts from the USA?....uppers/lowers/barrels etc Cheers Taffy

Taffy,
Nearly all the part are sourced in the States and are from various manufacturers. All different manufacturers' parts are as good as the each other, with a few exception on the finish quality of some receivers, but they all do the job despite this.

The main thing is the barrel and chamber selection. The Barrels are made from blanks from Lothar Walther. By buying blanks in Europe we can get exactly what we need and finish tham as required.

As far as mark-up/profit goes, let's just say I'm still driving the Landrover (nearly 10 years old) and I'm not going to my Carribean hide-away this month.

Quoted: I might as well have a left handed Remi for a lot less money… unless of course someone makes a left handed Enfield NoIV or KAR98k ANdy You have no taste Mark

Hey! We all saw 'Enemy at the Gates'…

Well, a  WWII service rifle is only good for @2-4" groups at 100yds…but I never cease to be amazed how many people believe they were all sooper accurate!

ANdy

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I didn't think the AR had pistons. Actually, the UK legal AR15 can have exactly the same parts as the US AR15 (and even some M16 parts) as long as the barrel is not drilled for the gas port.

Quite right,…

That should be gas 'port' not 'piston'…

And my AR is entered on my certificate as an M16!

ANdy

"chuckles"

Matt if there's room on your yaucht for next months carribean hide away trip put me down on the guest list will ya?

Cheers

Taffy

thanks for the info and come the warmer weather I'd love to visit one of the Highpower/SR competitions. I've yet got to visit the website and have a good read.

That's it… i'm off to kill some defenceless paper!

ANdy

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I didn't think the AR had pistons. Actually, the UK legal AR15 can have exactly the same parts as the US AR15 (and even some M16 parts) as long as the barrel is not drilled for the gas port. Quite right,… That should be gas 'port' not 'piston'… And my AR is entered on my certificate as an M16! ANdy

darn it Andy you gonna go fully auto?....that'd  be funny....and I'd be the first looking for a variation too

Last year an AR15 won the PR Nationals (well done Streetfighter),

Really Scope-Eye, you shouldn't have...you know how I don't like to brag

But going on from what you said, we've now held somewhere in the region of 50 Highpower matches and only one has been won with a rifle that wasn't an AR.
And, going back through the PR results, out of the 59 matches over the last 5 years, 46 have been won with AR's and the other 13 have been won with a mixture of other rifles, of which only 2 matches were won with Remingtons.

Coupled with that, 5 of the last 6 SR championships have been won with AR's as well as the last 6 PR league championships.
True, our rifles aren't the same as the semi's but we all know that, besides with the types of matches and courses of fire that we shoot there is no disadvantage.
Example, who was it with a straight pull AR who put all 10 shots in the 5 ring of a fig 11 from 200yds sitting in 25 seconds, when even no-one from the military could do that with their SA80's, M16's and Steyr Augs??? I'll let you guess

Those that harp on about the deficiencies of the manually operated AR are usually the ones who don't shoot one.
And have you ever noticed that eventually all the boltgunners come over to the dark side in the end

Andy, if you were serious, we can build you the left handed AR of your dreams,then you'd be convinced.

By the way, this forum is now well and truly HRA'd

Mark

Given the choice of being the latest 'shock horror!!! householder stabbed to death' story on the front of the tabloids or arguing the toss in court afterwards… I think I might opt for the latter… 7 years for 'assault with a firearm' or dead forever……

while I agree with this statement and I too would rather be alive

I've a family member in SO19 and he says for anyone to use "reasonable force with a firearm" the bad guy would have to be armed and if the threat level was to produce a reaction where someone would need to use a firearm to defend themselves that armed threat would realy need to be a firearm. That said I've never ever been in a situation where I have loaded gun anywhere but at a firing position. Therefore there would never come a time when I could legaly defend myself with a firearm.

Shame realy....


Tony Martin took no prisoners

Taffy

ok now for a technical question for the UK staight pullers (I'm sure there's a highpower motto in there somewhere)

What kind of ammo you guys using?
are you reloading?
If so what bullets/powders are you using?

I get the impression that due to the fast twist of these rifle heavier heads may be more accurate, anybody got any info on this?

and on a legal issue can I build ammo with hollow points without "expanding amunition" on my FAC?

cheers

Taffy