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Posted: 2/11/2007 10:35:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/11/2007 10:40:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/11/2007 10:44:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/11/2007 10:51:22 AM EST
Home depot loss prevention is NOT armed, what could they do except call 911? Actually armed store detectives used to be the norm, but well, damn liberals ect...
Link Posted: 2/11/2007 11:16:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/11/2007 11:18:03 AM EST by HKArch]

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
I am NOT a cop nor do I pretend to be one but I THINK (and this is JUST a hunch) that the gunman is no longer wearing the yellow construction helmet, a dust mask and a painter's smock.

JUST a hunch.
What a small world, I was thinking the same thing.


Originally Posted By sandboxking:
Home depot loss prevention is NOT armed, what could they do except call 911? Actually armed store detectives used to be the norm, but well, damn liberals ect cheapskate management...
Fixed it for you. And Home Depot isn't the only company with cheapskate management. It's an epidemic.
Link Posted: 2/11/2007 12:21:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By HKArch:

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
I am NOT a cop nor do I pretend to be one but I THINK (and this is JUST a hunch) that the gunman is no longer wearing the yellow construction helmet, a dust mask and a painter's smock.

JUST a hunch.
What a small world, I was thinking the same thing.


Originally Posted By sandboxking:
Home depot loss prevention is NOT armed, what could they do except call 911? Actually armed store detectives used to be the norm, but well, damn liberals ect cheapskate management cheapskate liberal management...
Fixed it for you. And Home Depot isn't the only company with cheapskate management. It's an epidemic.


Fixed it for you. Allowing workers, or at least managers to pack their own heat would have been free. How many chain stores actually allow that though?

Link Posted: 2/11/2007 6:35:48 PM EST
was this a robbery or a hit?
Link Posted: 2/11/2007 7:38:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/11/2007 8:51:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/11/2007 10:26:12 PM EST
An armed citizenry would reduce this kind of bullshit to a lower rate then we have - maybe to zero.

Heck, an armed manager would reduce the rate of these events. At least he'd have a fighting chance. Does Home Depot allow concealed carry in their stores?
Link Posted: 2/11/2007 11:38:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
An armed citizenry would reduce this kind of bullshit to a lower rate then we have - maybe to zero.

Heck, an armed manager would reduce the rate of these events. At least he'd have a fighting chance. Does Home Depot allow concealed carry in their stores?


Mike I would assume not. It would be nice though. It sad that it happened and the manager paid with his life.
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 5:24:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By Big_Bear:
I feel sorry for the man's family and coworkers and all, but approaching an armed man attempting to rob the store probably wasn't a good idea.


Still have to wonder the type of person who did the shooting and why he shot. Waving the gun would have been enough. I'd like to dig out that brain for closer examination.
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 7:24:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 8:05:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By ireload:

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
An armed citizenry would reduce this kind of bullshit to a lower rate then we have - maybe to zero.

Heck, an armed manager would reduce the rate of these events. At least he'd have a fighting chance. Does Home Depot allow concealed carry in their stores?


Mike I would assume not. It would be nice though. It sad that it happened and the manager paid with his life.

H.D. just put out a $100,000 reward related to this robbery. This is way cheaper than being liable for multi-million dollar judgements if a customer/robber gets killed.

For me, and I admonish my wife and children, when you go to a bank, look through the doors for ANYTHING suspicious, if anything doesn't "look right" go back later. But robbing a HD? That is a bit extreme.
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 8:08:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
.
.
In San Juan Capistrano, a bouquet of flowers and a card sat on the doorstep of Egan's home. No one answered the door, and the family could not be immediately reached for comment.
.
.

Duh, some really cold-hearted news media people. How would you feel is your loved one was murdered?
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 8:33:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By warlord:

Originally Posted By ireload:

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
An armed citizenry would reduce this kind of bullshit to a lower rate then we have - maybe to zero.

Heck, an armed manager would reduce the rate of these events. At least he'd have a fighting chance. Does Home Depot allow concealed carry in their stores?


Mike I would assume not. It would be nice though. It sad that it happened and the manager paid with his life.

H.D. just put out a $100,000 reward related to this robbery. This is way cheaper than being liable for multi-million dollar judgements if a customer/robber gets killed.

For me, and I admonish my wife and children, when you go to a bank, look through the doors for ANYTHING suspicious, if anything doesn't "look right" go back later. But robbing a HD? That is a bit extreme.


I wonder how much the family will sue Home Depot for. Something tells me it will be waaay more than the paltry $100k reward. The reward is probably just to defend against the civil suit that is sure to come.

Perhaps I could just be getting cynical in my old age.
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 12:55:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
www.ocregister.com/newsimages/breaking_news/2007/02/9homedepot2_large.jpg

www.ocregister.com/newsimages/breaking_news/2007/02/9homedepot1_large.jpg

Pics of the gunman.

Those pictures didn't help me out any. I've seen dozens of people who looked exactly like that, sans yellow hard hat though.



Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
An armed citizenry would reduce this kind of bullshit to a lower rate then we have - maybe to zero.

Heck, an armed manager would reduce the rate of these events. At least he'd have a fighting chance. Does Home Depot allow concealed carry in their stores?

Well, I used to carry concealed all the time at the Home Depot when I lived in OR. I was a customer though. I carried every single day, everywhere I went, except for church. I left my handgun in the car during church, so that I had it near me while driving to and from.
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 4:29:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 5:10:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 6:00:52 PM EST
OC Mike Corona from what I heard is more reasonable in issuing CCWs than his predesssor Brad Gates. Under Brad Gates(no relationship to LAPD Chief Daryl Gates, from what I understand Daryl live in Oceanside), if you're non-LE, you only get a CCW if you contribute some money to his re-election campaign.
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 8:29:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By Big_Bear:
I feel sorry for the man's family and coworkers and all, but approaching an armed man attempting to rob the store probably wasn't a good idea.


+1
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 8:33:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/12/2007 8:35:19 PM EST by Mike_Mills]

Originally Posted By Paul:

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
An armed citizenry would reduce this kind of bullshit to a lower rate then we have - maybe to zero.

Heck, an armed manager would reduce the rate of these events. At least he'd have a fighting chance. Does Home Depot allow concealed carry in their stores?


There's plenty of murder in Texas. Plenty.

California state law states that CCW permits are NOT needed in your place of business. This is a corporate thing. If the local Home Depot is getting robbed I'll be damned if I'm getting involved potentially making my wife a widow, or losing my life savings defending myself against the criminal's asswipe lawyers to save $500 of Home Depot's register reciepts.


You mistake my motive for asking the question. The firearm is NOT to protect the money - HELL NO! It's to give you a fighting chance if an gunman starts to shoot. You know how it goes, you can tell the bastard is going to shoot - that's when you act. If Home Despot has a policy against CCW while on the premises then, effectively, they have a policy of preventing their employees from defending their lives against a known threat - armned robbers intent upon shooting. This is the basis for the civil suit to come.
Link Posted: 2/13/2007 8:58:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By Paul:
California state law states that CCW permits are NOT needed in your place of business. This is a corporate thing. If the local Home Depot is getting robbed I'll be damned if I'm getting involved potentially making my wife a widow, or losing my life savings defending myself against the criminal's asswipe lawyers to save $500 of Home Depot's register reciepts.


You'd probably also find yourself served by a lawsuit from Home Depot, for starting a shootout in their store and endangering their customers, property, etc.

Link Posted: 2/13/2007 9:11:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By Paul:
California state law states that CCW permits are NOT needed in your place of business. This is a corporate thing. If the local Home Depot is getting robbed I'll be damned if I'm getting involved potentially making my wife a widow, or losing my life savings defending myself against the criminal's asswipe lawyers to save $500 of Home Depot's register reciepts.


Protecting property is not a justifiable defense.
Link Posted: 2/13/2007 10:32:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By FNC80:

Originally Posted By Paul:
California state law states that CCW permits are NOT needed in your place of business. This is a corporate thing. If the local Home Depot is getting robbed I'll be damned if I'm getting involved potentially making my wife a widow, or losing my life savings defending myself against the criminal's asswipe lawyers to save $500 of Home Depot's register reciepts.


Protecting property is not a justifiable defense.



It's not about property.

It's about human lives, one of which was lost, possibly needlessly. The scumbag who did it is still at large. The good guy is dead.

Isn't something wrong with that picture?
Link Posted: 2/13/2007 10:33:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By Paul:

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
An armed citizenry would reduce this kind of bullshit to a lower rate then we have - maybe to zero.

Heck, an armed manager would reduce the rate of these events. At least he'd have a fighting chance. Does Home Depot allow concealed carry in their stores?


There's plenty of murder in Texas. Plenty.

California state law states that CCW permits are NOT needed in your place of business. This is a corporate thing. If the local Home Depot is getting robbed I'll be damned if I'm getting involved potentially making my wife a widow, or losing my life savings defending myself against the criminal's asswipe lawyers to save $500 of Home Depot's register reciepts.


Exactly, Paul. When someone pulls a gun to take money, let them take the money and use that time to escape - even if you are armed.

Actually, being involved in workplace violence is the way more common than is reported, and any company that does not train or at least explain what to do when things get ugly is totally negligent, hence the large lawsuits.

But here's the real point: when you shop at the HD or Lowes or ANY deep discounter, you are contributing to the "Keep it Cheap" mentality. Don't bitch about the lack of security, gaurds, or training and then price shop for your $10 item. Businesses are there to make as much money at any (acceptable) cost. Corporations are forced to cut corners at every step of they way in order to satisfy the stockholders. Things like this are well planned, the corp will take a loss on the lawsuit, but they know that it is the best financial decision, as armed gaurds and violence training cost huge dollars.

Its really sad when the good guys get killed. It even more sad that it was for nothing. Maybe something good will come from it and our consumers will start to demand that vunerable employees are trained better. Sadly, I doubt that the HD customers will want to foot the bill for that.
Link Posted: 2/13/2007 2:20:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:

Originally Posted By FNC80:

Originally Posted By Paul:
California state law states that CCW permits are NOT needed in your place of business. This is a corporate thing. If the local Home Depot is getting robbed I'll be damned if I'm getting involved potentially making my wife a widow, or losing my life savings defending myself against the criminal's asswipe lawyers to save $500 of Home Depot's register reciepts.


Protecting property is not a justifiable defense.



It's not about property.

It's about human lives, one of which was lost, possibly needlessly. The scumbag who did it is still at large. The good guy is dead.

Isn't something wrong with that picture?


I was commenting on Paul's statement, which is would make sense from a legal perspective. If the guy wants the $500 (or in the case of Tustin, $1200) and poses no immediate threat, then take the money and go. If you put him down, then you're involved in possible criminal and definitely civil court.

We don't know the exact circumstances of Mr. Egan's death, so it's difficult to armchair quarterback it. Did he try to subdue the crook? Did he try to talk him out of it?

Yes the good guy is dead. Yes the scumbag got away. Unfortunately that's how life sometimes deals the cards.
Link Posted: 2/13/2007 2:23:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:

Originally Posted By FNC80:
Protecting property is not a justifiable defense.


It's not about property.


And yes...it is about property. If you shoot someone because they're stealing your TV, you go to prison.
Link Posted: 2/15/2007 5:56:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By FNC80:

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:

Originally Posted By FNC80:
Protecting property is not a justifiable defense.


It's not about property.


And yes...it is about property. If you shoot someone because they're stealing your TV, you go to prison.



Not in Oklahoma, you come into my housel uninvited, I have the right to protect my home, its contents and most importantly, my life and the life of others in my home.

We have what is called the Make my Day Law, in which a resident of a house is justified to use deadly force against an intruder if there is even the slightest reason to fear for your safety, no matter how slight the fear, I can and will use deadly force to protect my home, those who live within its walls and its contents.
Link Posted: 2/15/2007 5:58:36 PM EST
Working at the HD, this has been a concern of mine, esp since I close the store 99% of the time.


I hope that the sob is cought and soon.

My condolences to the managers family.
Link Posted: 2/15/2007 6:44:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1shott:
Not in Oklahoma, you come into my housel uninvited, I have the right to protect my home, its contents and most importantly, my life and the life of others in my home.


Didn't FL also pass a similar law recently?
Link Posted: 2/15/2007 6:49:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By FNC80:

Originally Posted By 1shott:
Not in Oklahoma, you come into my housel uninvited, I have the right to protect my home, its contents and most importantly, my life and the life of others in my home.


Didn't FL also pass a similar law recently?



FL passed a stand your ground law, as did Oklahoma.
Link Posted: 2/15/2007 9:49:41 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/16/2007 4:41:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1shott:

Originally Posted By FNC80:

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:

Originally Posted By FNC80:
Protecting property is not a justifiable defense.


It's not about property.


And yes...it is about property. If you shoot someone because they're stealing your TV, you go to prison.



Not in Oklahoma, you come into my housel uninvited, I have the right to protect my home, its contents and most importantly, my life and the life of others in my home.

We have what is called the Make my Day Law, in which a resident of a house is justified to use deadly force against an intruder if there is even the slightest reason to fear for your safety, no matter how slight the fear, I can and will use deadly force to protect my home, those who live within its walls and its contents.



The same is true in Va.; that is, you have no duty to "flee", the same is not true across the river in Md., whereas if you have a backdoor, then you are obligated to use it, rather than a firearm. I don't want to hijack this thread, nor take light off of the fact that a good person died while trying to do the right thing. My condolences to his family and co-workers. What is needed in this world are more people like him.

-tc
Link Posted: 2/16/2007 7:17:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/16/2007 7:27:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
You also have to remember something, and if any LEO's out there can either confirm this or deny it, I would appreciate it.

Robbers have the upper hand because THEY own the element of surprise.


That plus they dont play by the same rules as the good guys. The good guys have to worry about laws of arrest, civil liability and use of force. contantly evaluating the situation as it progresses. The bad guys dont have to worry about that stuff. they just start shooting if they feel like it, consequences be damned.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 9:43:10 AM EST
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/homepage/abox/article_1589176.php

Friday, February 23, 2007
Arrest in Home Depot killing
Police arrest parolee in Oceanside on Thursday night.
By KIMBERLY EDDS
The Orange County Register

TUSTIN – Police arrested Jason Russell Richardson, 36, a parolee, in Oceanside Thursday night in connection with the killing of Home Depot assistant manager Tom Egan, who was gunned down during a botched robbery at his Tustin Marketplace store Feb. 9.

Police came to the San Juan Capistrano home of Egan's widow, A.J., Thursday night to say they had arrested a suspect about 6:30 p.m., family members said today.

The arrest is bittersweet, said Gene West, Egan's brother-in-law, who listened in on the speaker phone from his Northern California home as police delivered the news.

"I'm happy the guy is off the street," West said. "It's almost like you want the guy caught and it will give you closure. But it doesn't. I just wish I had my brother-in-law back."

Customers watched as Egan, the father to 3-year-old twin girls, was shot about 10 a.m. Feb. 9 in the middle of the crowded store by a man disguised as a painter. Egan had walked up to the cashier during the robbery to see if anything was wrong.

The robber grabbed the cash and ran out the door and into a silver or white Ford Windstar minivan. Police originally said there was a second man, also wearing a disguise, but after interviewing dozens of witnesses, police now say the man acted alone. He is a career criminal, police told the family.

"It's not going to bring him back but at least it is something," Kris West, Egan's sister-in-law, said in a telephone interview.

More details about the arrest is being released at a 9 a.m. news conference today. A.J. Egan is expected to be at the news conference along with other family members.

Contact the writer: 714-445-6682 or kedds@ocregister.com
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 10:04:55 AM EST
Too bad it will take until 2027 to kill him by lethal injection.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 10:11:36 AM EST
This brings up an interesting point. I had thought about wearing a concealed L III vest, since I get to visit hospital ERs in pretty gnarly neighborhoods in the dead of night.

There have been at least 2 or 3 times that bad things have occured in the past few years.

A convict in the jail section of Western Med-Anaheim assaults a deputy a flees in his patrol vehicle, I believe expired after a short chase and collision. A mentally unstable patient assaults an ambulance crew and steals an ambulance from Anaheim Memorial, colliding with another vehicle at the intersection of La Palma and Euclid, killing the occupants.

One of my other buddies has a CCW. One of his patients, a narc addict threatened to kill him.

This is on top of the beatings, stabbings, GSW's, car accidents, that roll in with regularity.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 11:29:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By warlord:
Police arrested Jason Russell Richardson, 36, a parolee, in Oceanside


Figures it would be Oceanside
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 10:35:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By FNC80:

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:

Originally Posted By FNC80:
Protecting property is not a justifiable defense.


It's not about property.


And yes...it is about property. If you shoot someone because they're stealing your TV, you go to prison.


You would not be shooting him for "stealing the TV", but out of fear for your life.

Your situation means that a) you are inside your residence, and b) a burglar/home invader is also inside your residence. CA has a castle doctrine and you would be justified in shooting him just for the fact he invaded your home. For all you know he could be armed and intend to kill you and take the TV. It is automatically presumed that your are in fear of your life or serious bodily harm.
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