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6/25/2018 7:04:05 PM
Posted: 7/8/2018 10:59:02 PM EDT
Copy/Paste from my GD topic, in case anyone here doesn't watch GD...

Hoping some here can help shed some light, as my google searching hasn't given me definite answers.

I'll be on a 2 week vacation in October. One week spent in California and one week spent in Missouri, in that order and back to back. While in MO, I will be taking part in a 3 day pistol class and be bringing 3 m&p's with me. The intention is to bring my firearms with me to CA and secure them while I'm there, then take them to MO and take part in my class.

My largest concern is the magazine capacities, as 2 of the firearms are full size with 15 and 17 rounds. I'll have 9-10 mags with me. It's unlikely that anyone will know I have them, but in the event it's inspected, are there any major issues? Any loopholes I can use like disassembling them and claiming it's a rebuild kit?

Is it better to ship them? I'll be bringing a Shield with me as well, so I'd like to keep everything together since I'll be checking firearms already.

I'm very familiar and comfortable with checking firearms, so not concerned about that specific aspect. Just haven't done it through CA.
Link Posted: 7/8/2018 11:35:16 PM EDT
Yes, such magazines are illegal in this state. Given that you are obviously traveling, if you get caught, it will be really easy for a DA to charge you with importation, which is a misdemeanor with a maximum 1-year penalty. Forget taking the magazine apart and pretending that you have "rebuild kits", because (a) rebuild kits are also illegal to import (the penalty is only 6 months though), and (b) it is obvious that you are not intending to use them to rebuild anything, and (c) you announced on this forum that you might try to use that to get around the prohibition on magazines.

In theory, even possessing the magazines in the state is a crime. However, that section of the law only took effect recently (I forget whether it was 1-Jan or 1-Jul), and actual implementation is currently blocked by an injunction from a lawsuit. Doesn't matter, since you'll be charged with importation, not possession.

Furthermore, any such magazine is considered a "nuisance" (that's a legal term), and as such can (and in most cases will) be confiscated and destroyed, without compensation. That section is not blocked by an injunction.

In theory, you could get a special permit to bring them in and transport them. The penal code does allow the state DoJ to issue such permits. The probability of getting such a permit is zero.

I would strongly advice to ship them and not bring them through California.
Link Posted: 7/8/2018 11:39:11 PM EDT
Forgot to give you the penal code section numbers: 32310 is importation, 32310(c) is possession, 32311 is rebuild kits, 32315 is special permits, and 32390 is nuisance.
Link Posted: 7/9/2018 12:15:28 AM EDT
You missed the mag. capacity laws in your Google adventures. There are a couple of other pitfalls one could encounter. Care to describe your "full-size" and/or other firearms (besides the Shield) in a little more detail? Admittedly the chance of being found out is slim, but, better ask here or find out later the hard way, I suppose.
Link Posted: 7/9/2018 12:24:27 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Featureless:
You missed the mag. capacity laws in your Google adventures. There are a couple of other pitfalls one could encounter. Care to describe your "full-size" and/or other firearms (besides the Shield) in a little more detail? Admittedly the chance of being found out is slim, but, better ask here or find out later the hard way, I suppose.
View Quote
I know the capacity laws in CA, but wasn't sure if there was a way of legally bringing them through if stored a certain way and obvious intention to travel elsewhere. Goofy laws are goofy.

Full size firearms are M&P9 and M&9c 2.0..

Ultimately, not too concerned with it, but if following the law only costs me a small bit of time/money then I'd rather do that, as opposed to breaking the local law and hoping not to get caught.

Really depresses me knowing that what is legal in my state can send me to jail in another state :/
Link Posted: 7/10/2018 12:55:07 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gadget08:
... if there was a way of legally bringing them through if stored a certain way and obvious intention to travel elsewhere.
View Quote
Yes, that would be lovely. It would even make sense: If magazines are packaged securely, and the package is not open while in California, then they are legal. But that's not the way the law is written. The law is written by unimaginative lawmakers in Sacramento, whose goal is to maximally annoy gun owners. While at the same time, the bulk of gun owners think their job is to curse as loudly as possible about those lawmakers, and make their life as miserable as possible. Since gun owners in California have no political power (having allied themselves with the losing political party), this is sadly a very one-sided battle, and we are on the not so good side of it.

By the way, this brings up a hypothetical question. Say a gun store in Oregon orders a large box of 30-round AR magazines from a distributor or manufacturer in Arizona. The manufacturer puts it into a big cardboard box, tapes it closed, and hands it to UPS (or FedEx or the USPS or DHL). The fastest way from AZ to OR is to go west until you get to LA or San Diego, then north on the 5. If I understand the law right, at this point UPS and in particular the truck driver have just committed a pretty ugly felony as they pass through California. I don't see any exemption in the law which allows safe transit, not even for "common carriers". Now, no sane DA would charge the UPS trucker with this, but who says that all our DAs are sane (actually, quote a few California DAs are completely nuts, fruits and flakes)? Any legal eagle care to explain how UPS can get these magazines to Oregon without committing a crime? I'm sure that UPS has no mechanism to know that certain packages have to be routed around certain states, because magazines are not hazardous materials.
Link Posted: 7/10/2018 1:43:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/10/2018 1:53:09 AM EDT by Trollslayer]
Originally Posted By Gadget08:
I'll be on a 2 week vacation in October. One week spent in California and one week spent in Missouri, in that order and back to back. While in MO, I will be taking part in a 3 day pistol class and be bringing 3 m&p's with me. The intention is to bring my firearms with me to CA and secure them while I'm there, then take them to MO and take part in my class.

My largest concern is the magazine capacities, as 2 of the firearms are full size with 15 and 17 rounds. I'll have 9-10 mags with me. It's unlikely that anyone will know I have them, but in the event it's inspected, are there any major issues? Any loopholes I can use like disassembling them and claiming it's a rebuild kit?

Is it better to ship them?
View Quote
I think there is a Federal law (pre-emption) allowing interstate commerce of the type you describe. I believe there is also a provision for people to transit a State. I can't quote Chapter and Verse but check it out.

This came up when New Jersey enacted some similarly restrictive laws but people from Pennsylvania wanted to pass through NJ to their destination.

Just don't make any stops that can be interpreted as tourism or anything other than transiting the State.

As such, your plan of a week's vacation here before going to Missouri would eliminate you from using this approach.
Link Posted: Yesterday 7:18:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Yesterday 7:38:32 PM EDT by Freeway]
I never take firearms into California. I drop my CCW with my cousin in Las Vegas and then proceed into California with only pepper spray. I also open carry a dagger in a sheath on my belt.

You can open carry a dirk or dagger in California. If you conceal carry a dirk or dagger, it's a crime.

There are so many gotchas in their gun laws that even someone like you who is trying to obey the law might wind up on the other side of it.

I'd rather bleed out on the floor under a 7-11 Slurpee machine than face a California jury in a self-defense shooting.

When I return to Utah from a California trip, I kiss the ground.
Link Posted: Yesterday 10:00:10 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Freeway:
I never take firearms into California. I drop my CCW with my cousin in Las Vegas and then proceed into California with only pepper spray. I also open carry a dagger in a sheath on my belt.

You can open carry a dirk or dagger in California. If you conceal carry a dirk or dagger, it's a crime.

There are so many gotchas in their gun laws that even someone like you who is trying to obey the law might wind up on the other side of it.

I'd rather bleed out on the floor under a 7-11 Slurpee machine than face a California jury in a self-defense shooting.

When I return to Utah from a California trip, I kiss the ground.
View Quote
I was told that if any clothing covered any part of the knife, it would be considered concealed. I carry a folding blade for that reason. It's a small blade, and isn't an auto or even spring assisted.
Link Posted: Yesterday 10:15:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Yesterday 10:16:33 PM EDT by Trollslayer]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Freeway:
I'd rather bleed out on the floor under a 7-11 Slurpee machine than face a California jury in a self-defense shooting.
View Quote
You've got that wrong. So wrong, that you are just bashing California in your ignorance.

In California, the laws allow you to defend yourself, your loved ones and others who are in immediate threat of death or grave bodily injury.

Inside your home, the protections are even greater (intruders presumed to have bad intent).

AOJ* always applies but things are not as bad as you make out and the jury pool is filled with people who know which end is up.
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AOJ - Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy
Link Posted: Today 12:17:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: Today 9:57:18 PM EDT
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