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Posted: 6/16/2009 7:37:59 AM EST
If you were to trade a vehicle for vehicle with no money involved, would you still have to pay taxes? Sales tax? Use tax? I know if you go to a dealership, you only do the difference, but what about private to private?
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 7:40:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By Neo1130:
If you were to trade a vehicle for vehicle with no money involved, would you still have to pay taxes? Sales tax? Use tax? I know if you go to a dealership, you only do the difference, but what about private to private?


Kinky way to trade cars.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 7:42:55 AM EST
Depends on how you do the paperwork. The LEGAL way to do it is on the bill of sale/title list the value of the vehicle given in exchange.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 7:45:08 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 7:47:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 7:51:34 AM EST by Boomer]
My bet is that when you go to transfer the title and register it in your name you will be required to pay the use tax on the what the state has determined to be the minimum fair market value for the vehicle.

ETA: DOL Use Tax

It looks like you could possibly avoid the use tax by gifting the vehicles to each other.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 7:52:55 AM EST
DOL will decide what you paid and tax you accordingly. Any motor vehicle may be gifted to anyone else. However, it is not eligible if the last transfer was gifted. The next guy will be eligible.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 7:56:18 AM EST
Would that be "legal" gifting to each other? Of course I want to do it for as little as possible but I don't want to do it the shitty way... If there are any loopholes, I figure gifting them would be the way! But who knows! I e-mailed them and asked about it but they didn't give a real straight answer... More of a generic answer that I can find anywhere on google...
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 8:01:30 AM EST
Why don't you "lease" it to each other in perpetuity?

Put a clause in if you want to sell the "leased" vehicle, that the other party shall sell directly to the 3rd party for an amount agreed to by the 3rd party on your request.

I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV.

IOTW: lawyer on lot 6 please
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 8:01:57 AM EST
The best way is to sell the car for $1 to make things easy unless you like alot of paperwork to fill-out.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 8:03:43 AM EST
I suppose there could be some personal ethical or moral issues in that you are not really exchanging gifts but rather committing tax evasion.

But technically, gifting to each other is legal. Besides this thread or one of the two involved parties blabbing, how would it ever be proved otherwise?
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 8:08:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 8:08:28 AM EST by Boomer]
Originally Posted By Midnightcreeper:
The best way is to sell the car for $1 to make things easy unless you like alot of paperwork to fill-out.


Wrong.

The state assesses the use tax on what it deems to be the actual fair market value. Unless you can provide documentation that the vehicle is actually only worth $1, then you ain't gonna get by paying 7 cents or whatever in use tax. I'm certain that this is a result of people reporting excessively low sales prices over the years to lessen the state's cut of the action.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 8:10:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By Boomer:
Originally Posted By Midnightcreeper:
The best way is to sell the car for $1 to make things easy unless you like alot of paperwork to fill-out.


Wrong.

The state assesses the use tax on what it deems to be the actual fair market value. Unless you can provide documentation that the vehicle is actually only worth $1, then you ain't gonna get by paying 7 cents or whatever in use tax. I'm certain that this is a result of people reporting excessively low sales prices over the years to lessen the state's cut of the action.


Right.

Been there.....done that.
But I would say, whatever the individual is comfortable with in handling the transaction.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 8:26:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 8:28:53 AM EST by Neo1130]
Originally Posted By Boomer:
Originally Posted By Midnightcreeper:
The best way is to sell the car for $1 to make things easy unless you like alot of paperwork to fill-out.


Wrong.

The state assesses the use tax on what it deems to be the actual fair market value. Unless you can provide documentation that the vehicle is actually only worth $1, then you ain't gonna get by paying 7 cents or whatever in use tax. I'm certain that this is a result of people reporting excessively low sales prices over the years to lessen the state's cut of the action.


Yeah, I tried this last year or at least close to it.... I sold my 2001 Audi to a friend and they used all their money to buy the car, not thinking much about taxes... I sold the car for $7000 but on the transfer I put down $3000... Blue book was roughly $8000.... They charged him for the $8000.... But I also did the $1 thing on another sale and it worked... I just think it is who you get at the counter... Oh, and they WILL come back for their money if it was done wrong... At least in Oklahoma... I though buying a car for $25,000, the tax would be expensive! Get to the counter and they wanted like $200... SWEET! Then about a month later I get a call and they wanted the other $700... I told them they should have done it right in the first place and it wasn't my problem... That was a wrong answer apparently...
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 8:34:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By Midnightcreeper:
The best way is to sell the car for $1 to make things easy unless you like alot of paperwork to fill-out.


Yeah, like has been stated, this doens't really work, but ...

I had a guy once tell me that he was going to low-ball the money on the paperwork (he was the buyer) and put a statement on the form that it was so low because the vehicle needed transmission work. Well, it did, and it didn't. It probably needed a $100 flush and fill, but that's it, but he put down a lot less than that - not $1, but probably close to 25% of what he paid me for it.

Of course, I don't know anything about it - other than what he told me
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 8:49:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By jhasz:
Originally Posted By Midnightcreeper:
The best way is to sell the car for $1 to make things easy unless you like alot of paperwork to fill-out.


Yeah, like has been stated, this doens't really work, but ...

I had a guy once tell me that he was going to low-ball the money on the paperwork (he was the buyer) and put a statement on the form that it was so low because the vehicle needed transmission work. Well, it did, and it didn't. It probably needed a $100 flush and fill, but that's it, but he put down a lot less than that - not $1, but probably close to 25% of what he paid me for it.

Of course, I don't know anything about it - other than what he told me


Ahh....well, to be absolutely honest, I didn't do it in this state. CA actually, so I'm a little misleading on my disposition of the matter.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 9:08:08 AM EST
They are getting really shitty with "gifting" and oddball pricing.

When we sold the Explorer 1.5 months ago, we put "gift".....buyer came back and said they would not let that fly.........no previous title on the vehicle were gifts.......so we then listed it at $500......she came back AGAIN and said they would not let that fly that the formula they used for that vehicle and that year should it had to be at least $1500! WTF!!!

I have gifted many vehciles and sold em for cheap........must be the state hurting for $$ and getting it where they can
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 12:16:51 PM EST
since i'm a cheap bastard i almost always have some POS car/truck that i bought dirt cheap...usually in the $500-$1500 range, so i have had to deal with these fuckers a few times.....if you gift they will try to charge you for their percieved value which does not take into account condition of the vehicle, mileage or anything else....

if you try to do the $1 thing, they will do the same thing as if it were gifted.....i was told they do it for anything under $500...there is a form you can have the seller fill out where big problems that would devalue the car....
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 12:38:19 PM EST
If I claimed the vehicle was a gift and they tried to insist I pay the use tax, I would first check to see if it met the requirements from the link I posted above and then present this to them:


What if I receive a vehicle or vessel as a gift?


  • If you can provide proof that the person who gave you the vehicle or vessel paid sales or use tax on the vehicle or vessel, no use tax is due.

  • If the person who gave you the gift owned the vehicle for 7 years or more and is from a state or province with sales tax, it will be assumed that tax was paid and no proof is needed.

  • If the vehicle or vessel is coming from a state or province without sales or use tax, use tax is due.


Link Posted: 6/16/2009 1:47:53 PM EST
This might have made a good campfire discussion at LCR, if... well, you know...
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 3:29:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By Clown_Gun:
This might have made a good campfire discussion at LCR, if... well, you know...




I was going to go this time, I swear... But, the night before the guy that wants to do this deal called me and wanted me to be in Seattle at 9:00 that morning... Then Sunday was my buddies burff-day party... Friday I had to watch my kid... LCR happens 4 times a year right? But a deal like this doesn't come by very often! (Trust me, I've been looking)

Trade this


For this
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:04:45 PM EST
I would keep the red one
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:28:31 PM EST
they had a hell of a time looking up a 64 Land Cruiser FJ45 wagon and 66 Long bedpickup.......so no issue

but yeah you need to pay the ACV(per DOV) unless repairs are needed, this need to be writen and signed buy the selller I think, ya cant just go out the door and make up a list of stuff...

Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:30:21 PM EST
Jeep.......do what ya want......cant be worth more than a few K.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:16:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 5:20:57 PM EST by Neo1130]
Originally Posted By Landpimp:
Jeep.......do what ya want......cant be worth more than a few K.


It's worth almost $2k more than the Durango... So I am happy... Not to mention, Durango doesn't have much of an aftermarket or a straight front axle...

Cheaper insurance
Cheaper parts
Less parts to break
OBDI
Better gas mileage
Not as many problems as the Durango (i.e. more reliable transmission)
Better resale value...
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:19:46 PM EST
Don't square headlights on a Jeep = ghey or something?
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:22:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By Clown_Gun:
Don't square headlights on a Jeep = ghey or something?


I've got plans for that... Maybe a YJ-TJ swap...
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:53:11 PM EST
I have done stright up trades from even out of state vehicles no sales or use tax. Bill of sale written up straight trade with no cash changing hands...
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:58:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By Belial:
I have done stright up trades from even out of state vehicles no sales or use tax. Bill of sale written up straight trade with no cash changing hands...


Interesting. I guess checking with the local licensing office is the best bet to find out how to go forward.


Maybe check with a couple, as in my experience, the knowledge and attitude of the clerk goes a long way.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 6:03:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By PCR-00:

Originally Posted By Belial:
I have done stright up trades from even out of state vehicles no sales or use tax. Bill of sale written up straight trade with no cash changing hands...


Interesting. I guess checking with the local licensing office is the best bet to find out how to go forward.


Maybe check with a couple, as in my experience, the knowledge and attitude of the clerk goes a long way.

I paid no tax on my car when I transfered the title into my name, but it was a gift from my parents, the licensing place had a form to fill out and sign to say it was a gift because they didnt want to trade it in because they weren't going to get much for it so they just gave it to me, lucky me because the engine blew up a month later and I had to swap it out, yay run on sentences
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 6:48:32 PM EST
Yeah, I guess tomorrow I'll call a few of them and ask... Which ever one says "NO TAXES!" I go to!
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 10:18:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By Neo1130:
Originally Posted By Landpimp:
Jeep.......do what ya want......cant be worth more than a few K.


It's worth almost $2k more than the Durango... So I am happy... Not to mention, Durango doesn't have much of an aftermarket or a straight front axle...

Cheaper insurance
Cheaper parts
Less parts to break
OBDI
Better gas mileage
Not as many problems as the Durango (i.e. more reliable transmission)
Better resale value...


I really like Jeeps.

But to be honest, you're just opening up a new can of worms/taking on other problems.

What year is it? What engine? Transmision?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:04:02 AM EST
It's a 1995 Wrangler Sahara.... So it has the 4.0L and a 5 speed manual. Also has A/C!

Last 4.0L we had lasted well over 300k miles and I beat the CRAP out of it... That was an 86 Comanche...

I am just scared every time I go offroad in the Durango and having the front diff split in half...

I am getting tired of the "luxuries" of power everything dammit!
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 8:45:48 AM EST
Hmmmm, did you and I have previous discussion about the unavailability/impossibility of the 4.0 in the 1986 model year?

At any rate, that's a pretty good catch for a YJ Wranger. 1995 was the last year of production. The 4.0 will be fuel injected. The AX-15 transmission is decent enough. It should also have the better external clutch slave cylinder.

Assuming that you don't go all crazy with a huge lift and monster tires, the only real trouble area is going to be the Dana 35 rear axle. A popular cure for that has been to swap in an 8.8" rear axle from a Ford Explorer.

I'd probably make that trade as well.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 9:13:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 9:17:36 AM EST by Neo1130]
LOL! Now that you say it, yeah... I remember that! I just wish that my dad didn't get rid of it so that I could straighten that out... I think we agreed that it came from Canada, did we not? Because I KNOW that it was an 86, verified by VIN and I KNOW it had a 4.0l... Just wish that I had the serial number from the motor so I could see what year the motor was from... I just don't see anyone doing a full motor swap, when we got it... It was a 4 year old vehicle when we bought it...
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 12:59:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 1:43:36 PM EST by Neo1130]
Okay, for those that were wondering... I finally got an answer after two days of waiting... They told me that who ever gets the more expensive vehicle in a trade will pay tax on the difference of the two vehicles...

So, say my Durango is $5500
Jeep is $6500

Since I am getting the Jeep, I have to pay tax on the difference of $1000... So, it's going to be like $92 n taxes... Good enough for me! But still, other bastage doesn't have to pay shit for tax...

EDITED FOR A HIGHER TAX RATE THAN I THOUGHT! Son-of-a....
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 1:30:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By Neo1130:
Okay, for those that were wondering... I finally got an answer after two days of waiting... They told me that who ever gets the more expensive vehicle in a trade will pay tax on the difference of the two vehicles...

So, say my Durango is $5500
Jeep is $6500

Since I am getting the Jeep, I have to pay tax on the difference of $1000... So, it's going to be like $92 n taxes... Good enough for me! But still, other bastage doesn't have to pay shit for tax...

EDITED FOR A HIGHER TAX RATE THAN I THOUGH! Son-of-a....


Cool beans. Glad to here it worked out like that.

On the DOL page it linked to, it says they add .3% to the use tax for vehicles.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 1:46:20 PM EST
LOL! Yeah, I dunno what the tax rate is... I thought it was 3.5% but then there was a calculator at the DOR website... This is what they gave...

County....................................... Thurston
State Sales and Use Tax .065
Local City/County Sales and Use Tax .014

Total tax rate .079
Taxable amount $1,175.00
Tax due $92.83
Total due $1,267.83
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 5:58:39 PM EST
You can get the state to lower their unrealistic valuations by bringing in a blue book print out they take all of them, I just looked for the lowest one I could find last time I bought a truck for cash. They tried telling me that a 97 F-150 was worth $9k. Printed out the edmunds eval. and got out of there with the actual price I paid for the truck.
Link Posted: 6/18/2009 6:13:01 AM EST
LOL! Thanks for that tip! I forgot edmunds! I went on there and they valued my Durango at $1000 more than the Jeep... Everyone else reversed that number... I think I 'll do that!
Link Posted: 6/18/2009 6:50:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/18/2009 6:53:14 AM EST by Chopper]
DONT DO IT!!!!!!!
YJ's are junk compared to a TJ!
Leaf=coil
OBD2=Why would you want OBD1? OBD2 gives you more tuning, diagnostic and swap options.
Cleaner dash layout
Not to mention $2500 can get you a set of used rubi axles that
will be bolt in with 4:10 gears, disks, and selectable lockers.
Also guys have the JK axles to TJ thing figured out now as well.
.
You can get a nice 4.0 TJ for 4k if you look hard.
Keep looking!
PS:I have an AW4 4speed auto conversion I did with tiptronic shift in my TJ

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