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12/6/2019 7:27:02 PM
Posted: 6/2/2008 10:16:35 AM EST
I saw on another thread a discussion about police officers being used as tools and such.
I have the utmost respect for the law enforcement community and I begin this thread with open discussion from home /property owners and Law enforcement alike.
Health Inspector doing it WRONG!!
This video has footage of a Health inspector trespassing while a Deputy looks on.
My question is NOT weather this home owner was doing anything wrong or not. Simply was the principle of law followed... and "IF" GOD forbid someone (maybe even someone "official") came onto my property how could I handle it differently that this guy did.


p.s. Please keep comments COC compliant so as to protect this thread from lockage.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 8:37:07 PM EST
A little background on me real quick: Army Reserves/ Going to IUPUI to become an officer
This kind of thing really upsets me on two levels.
One: At any moment I could be called upon to defend our country and support the constitution.
Two: I am going to school to become a police officer, and it is very discouraging to see authority abusing their powers. heAnother youtube video that really got me was the gun confiscations after Katrina hit.heI grew up learning history as well as the constitution to only see rights disputed and taken from citizens. (I don't know about you, but it happens more that I am comfortable with)
Seriously, Why I did i waste my time to learn the Amendments if they could easily be taken from me or my family.
For those of you who haven't seen the video about Katrina
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

As far as seat belts go, I understand it is the law, and I must follow it. Growing up always using a seat belt, it is not really a big problem for me. At the same time, I think that the seat belt laws are stupid. Okay, they are designed to save lives, but I do not believe that I should be forced to wear them.
It should be our freedom not a law to use a seat belt. Should it not? Just doesn't make sense to me for the government to control how we want to live.
In High School, I was in a debate about seat belt laws for a class. One of the arguments that took me off guard is that some people believe in their religion that God will protect them, and do not wear seat belts because they feel it is not their place to protect themselves, but that God has control of their fate. Should the government enforce seat belt laws on these few people practicing their religion?
hinking.gif
Is it no longer our right to live our lives the way we wish to live it? Safer or not?

I guess this is just another Late Night rant that won't make any progress to the current state of things.
If only the two words "Hope" and "Change" our next president (as voted by "our" media)hrowingPlease excuse the politics that belong in a different thread, All I freaking hear about is how great Obama is. house
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 4:50:59 AM EST
If there were arrests made or lawsuits filed as a result of your example case above, it would be hashed out for days or even weeks by a minimum of three people who have years of higher education focused on the law. The reason for this is because the laws are not written in absolutes, there are a lot of grey areas. Law Enforcement Officers have to make decisions on the spot and without the years of education on the law. Sometime those officers don't make the right decision but it is the best decision they can make based on their knowledge of the law. Sometimes they simply make bad or incorrect decisions, who doesn't?

It is unrealistic to expect every officer to understand every aspect of every law and be able to correctly enforce them at any given time. It is unrealistic to expect human beings to never make mistakes. Could we hire men and women to be law enforcement officers who have the same education on the law as the lawyers and the judges? Sure we could but I don't think too many people would be pleased with their tax bills. There is a reason lawyers drive new BMWs.

Link Posted: 6/5/2008 5:57:15 PM EST
Great post phylo,
In your opinion would the homeowner been justified in calling 911 on the tresspassing health inspector?
Maybe he could have been more agressive in his plea to demand a search warrant?
I know I'm searching here but I would like to develope my own ideas and stratagies for similar encounters if the need should present itself.
I suppose while I'm at it I should be fitted for a tin foil hat????
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 2:25:41 PM EST
I wouldn't caution anyone against dialing 911 if they feel threatened in any way, that's what it's there for.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 2:45:43 PM EST
The guy seems a bit flaky, but I sure hope he's rich by now and I hope that cop is checking parking meters and that woman is looking into the condition of jobsite port-o-lets! I'm sure regardless of the outcome, he'll have a hard time getting any kind of help from the local sherrif's department. I bet he's labeled as a nut and a troublemaker for life, now!

Doug K
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 3:20:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/6/2008 3:21:39 PM EST by Gunluster]
The property owner/person taking video was not flakey. He clearly explained to the Deputy and the health inspector that his rights were being violated, and clear probable cause would be needed to get a search warrant/court order to come onto his property. It was rather clear to me that the Deputy did not know the law to begin with, or he would not have come with the health inspector. A Law Enforcement officer has to have concrete probable cause to search/come onto your property. From what I could gather, I guess this was over whether or not the man was installing a septic system illegally. Why should Law Enforcement get invovled with that? I don't like what I saw in that video one damn bit. It might seem small scale to some, but this kind of shit is deteriorating our rights. If there was a vote on the "Tool or servant" I would definently say the Deputy was a TOOL! I have the utmost respect for Law Enforcement officers, but that guy was wrong.
Link Posted: 6/7/2008 5:34:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/7/2008 5:37:13 AM EST by phylodog]
Actually a warrant or exigent circumstances are required to search your curtilage, not any part of your property. Open areas of your property not partially concealed or protected by buildings or fences are not subject to the same protection as your home.

Believe it or not, in Indiana anyway, if you own 25 acres of land and have 4 large barns not connected to your home and LE gets a tip that you are growing marijuana in one or all of the barns, they don't need a warrant to come on to your property and take a peek in the barns. They can not look in your home without a warrant but they can look in the barns or other buildings or areas not connected to the area where you live.

The "grey area" becomes what qualifies as the curtilage? This is where the experts with years of education and experience in the interpretation of the law get to earn their money. They get hours, days or weeks to argue their point of view. The Deputy on the scene didn't get that kind of time nor does he likely have that amount of education or experience. Even if he did, the decision of what defines the curtilage of the property in the video is wide open to interpretation by the judge and subject to the quality of the arguments of the attorneys.

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